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SonsOfLiberty

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Left Hand Magic [Build 9] [Novus]

COMPRESSED:

Win/Linux:

- - -

Mac:

- - -
 

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Left Hand Magic [Build 9] [Novus]

COMPRESSED:

Win/Linux:

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Mac:

- - - PIXELDRAIN
That was pretty helpful. And compressions of games are a good way to upload games.
 
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Orphanus

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It's that time again! A new release of Left Hand Magic is out! late-night on the 31st, with the . Build 10 was fairly normally sized, 120+ new still renders, 10 new animations, for a total of six new scenes altogether. The low total number of scenes this time is because four of those scenes are the Weekend 4 Events for Arianna, Talia, Trix, and the Revina/Trix/MC Threesome route. Weekend events are quite a bit longer than regular scenes, typically. Hence so many renders and animations for so few scenes ;-). The other two scenes of the build are intended as 'general' events you can do during the weekdays of week 4 (and future weeks for that matter), if you run out of 'route' scenes you qualify for.

Build 9, the new public build, was a somewhat larger than usual build. It contains 10 new scenes, with 13 new animations spread between them. It added a few more early game scenes to continue balancing the Dom/Sub balance issues with a few routes, while also advancing Talia and Revina's Week 4 content to match Trix and Arianna's. Check the release notes for more details.

Download Links:

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Windows/Linux

Mega



GoogleDrive

Mac

Mega



GoogleDrive

Android

Mega



GoogleDrive

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Left Hand Magic - Build 10 Release Notes

Build 10 focused on rounding out Week 4. Two events were added as additional things to do during week 4, if you run out of Route content without running out of days. Currently those don't have support for the route with the MC in chastity. I'll likely add an alternate version, or alternate events, to support that in the long run. The other four events of the build are all Weekend Events, which means all four of those are Large/Long in a way that weekday events are not. Hence whey there are only 6 total new 'scenes' in the build. Those scenes have 10 new animations, and 120+ new still renders, so it's a pretty hefty build, despite the low apparent number of 'scenes.' Included in the build are:

- 2 New Scenes for Week 4 Weekdays. Accessible only on the last two days of the week, if you meet their requirements.

- Arianna's Weekend 4 Scene

- Talia's Weekend 4 Scene

- Trix's Weekend 4 Scene

- The Revina/Trix/MC threesome route Weekend 4 Scene

- An overhaul of Arianna's Gloryhole scene in Week 4 to make it skippable (partially or fully).

-Bugfixes/Typo correction

- Credits Updated

---------------

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I love reading that note at the end, because it gives me the feeling - no matter the final outcome - that you truly thought about the topic and given how invested I am in the game (and, sadly, Arianna's route, too) it just kinda warms my heart to see that you do care, even if maybe the outcome might not be what I personally would wish for. I couldn't ask for more than your genuine consideration of the different feelings about how that route developed, but I also wanna re-iterate that part of my confusion and unhappiness stemmed from the fact that I seriously misunderstood you back when you told me about this game. I am 99% sure you didn't say it would be entirely lesbian, but it's what stuck with me for some reason, probably because for a long time it just seemed so "obvious" to me that this is a game about a group of lovey-dovey lesbians & that all sharing content on Arianna's route (even if that theme itself isn't a kink for me) still would strictly stick to lesbian stuff.
So in case my previous comments on that whole thing made you feel as if I was shit-talking you or belittling you I want to apologize. I just couldn't grasp my head about the fact a seemingly "random" scene like that would be added in a "lesbian" game, but I realize that it's me who just had a wrong expectation & understanding of what you said back in the day when telling me about the game.
I love the fact the potential solution will include a genuine talk between Arianna & the protag, and I think you made a smart, immersive choice by including the topic safeword in the way the thing plays out.

Well, on a happier side-note I can't wait for build 10 to make it to the public - I might even wait a bit longer though for until learning what the Arianna route will be in the future, because I sure don't wanna go in again, get into the route and excited about it just to then facing the reality that the majority of your Patreons decided it should have mandatory m/f stuff. Which, again, is a fair way of handling the issue and if I understand you correctly it doesn't mean that in the future I have to worry about elementary things like that being entirely up to "randomness" (in the sense of stuff of that sort being potentially added at any given point in time) but I should 100% make sure I understood you correctly when you are talking about the themes of a game you make + the individual plans for routes instead of just assuming something and then being surprisingly sad (I would have not expected to think about it repeatedly during my day to day life, lol. Goes to show how well you are doing with your writing and character crafting :D) because it's not exactly what I for whatever reason assumed.

Also I'll finally give your game the rating it deserves since with the now finished weekend scenes it should be pretty much 50% of the scope, if I remember correctly that the game will span about 8 weeks?

Hope you're doing well and thanks again for not just disregarding the feedback you got for that scene and the route in general, that's more than anyone could demand of you. :oops:
 
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NovusPeregrine

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Nov 27, 2017
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That was pretty helpful. And compressions of games are a good way to upload games.
Left magic? What about Right hand magic? Surely this game will have a sequel.
Not as helpful as you think. My games are already compressed into Webp for images and Webm for video. Literally all they did was hash the quality for very minimal gain. The uncompressed version of the game is 5gb+. My compressed version is 1.25gb. They cut that in half again, but likely screwed the quality up a fair bit in doing so. Applying another round of compression to an already compressed file is rarely a good idea.

As for the game's title. It references . At this time, there are no explicit plans for a sequel. One may happen, but I'm not really worrying about it since it will be most of another year before Left Hand Magic is scheduled to be finished.

I love reading that note at the end, because it gives me the feeling - no matter the final outcome - that you truly thought about the topic and given how invested I am in the game (and, sadly, Arianna's route, too) it just kinda warms my heart to see that you do care, even if maybe the outcome might not be what I personally would wish for. I couldn't ask for more than your genuine consideration of the different feelings about how that route developed, but I also wanna re-iterate that part of my confusion and unhappiness stemmed from the fact that I seriously misunderstood you back when you told me about this game. I am 99% sure you didn't say it would be entirely lesbian, but it's what stuck with me for some reason, probably because for a long time it just seemed so "obvious" to me that this is a game about a group of lovey-dovey lesbians & that all sharing content on Arianna's route (even if that theme itself isn't a kink for me) still would strictly stick to lesbian stuff.
So in case my previous comments on that whole thing made you feel as if I was shit-talking you or belittling you I want to apologize. I just couldn't grasp my head about the fact a seemingly "random" scene like that would be added in a "lesbian" game, but I realize that it's me who just had a wrong expectation & understanding of what you said back in the day when telling me about the game.
I love the fact the potential solution will include a genuine talk between Arianna & the protag, and I think you made a smart, immersive choice by including the topic safeword in the way the thing plays out.
Of course, I care :). Games are made to be enjoyed. I've never agreed with the idea that the 'artistic vision' of the creator outweighs the desires of the players. While that has to be true when it comes to things like maintaining the integrity and consistency of characters or the game world, that has to be balanced out with making the game actually enjoyable to play!

To be fair to you, the game is mostly lesbian. But I never considered it completely so because of Talia's presence. Futa's are something of a confusing issue, particularly when they are true hermaphrodites with both sets of equipment like Talia is. When I let people vote on the inclusion of a Futa, however, and they voted for Talia to be added as a futa, I planned the world around that. To me, that meant I couldn't have a 100% pure-lesbian protagonist. Nor could anyone involved in Talia's threesome route be 100% pure lesbian. That meant that both the MC and Arianna had to be at least somewhat bi-sexual, even if both might prefer women.

Well, on a happier side-note I can't wait for build 10 to make it to the public - I might even wait a bit longer though for until learning what the Arianna route will be in the future, because I sure don't wanna go in again, get into the route and excited about it just to then facing the reality that the majority of your Patreons decided it should have mandatory m/f stuff. Which, again, is a fair way of handling the issue and if I understand you correctly it doesn't mean that in the future I have to worry about elementary things like that being entirely up to "randomness" (in the sense of stuff of that sort being potentially added at any given point in time) but I should 100% make sure I understood you correctly when you are talking about the themes of a game you make + the individual plans for routes instead of just assuming something and then being surprisingly sad (I would have not expected to think about it repeatedly during my day to day life, lol. Goes to show how well you are doing with your writing and character crafting :D) because it's not exactly what I for whatever reason assumed.

Also I'll finally give your game the rating it deserves since with the now finished weekend scenes it should be pretty much 50% of the scope, if I remember correctly that the game will span about 8 weeks?

Hope you're doing well and thanks again for not just disregarding the feedback you got for that scene and the route in general, that's more than anyone could demand of you. :oops:
If it helps you decide on playing Build 10, Arianna's Weekend 4 content is all lesbian ;-). And Build 10 made the gloryhole scene skippable. You'll also likely already know what the results of the poll will be by the time Build 10 goes public, since I'll run the poll next month while working on Build 11. It's likely I'll include the results in the release notes. Assuming I remember to do so.

As for the game length, I'd originally intended on six weeks. Then decided I wasn't sure that would be enough in-game time and that I might extend it to 8 weeks. I assume that's the conversation you're remembering. Since then, I've more or less settled on 7 weeks. Six of those will be on the pattern that currently exists, with the seventh being a sort of Epilogue Week based on your route choice. I understand that might seem like a short time when considered in real-world terms...but the number of animations in this game is going to be staggering by the time it's done. Weeks 4-6 will each have 40+ animations each (1 single animation scene, 2 dual animation weekday scenes, 1 dual animation weekend scene) x 4 solo routes + (1 single animation, 1 dual animation weekday scene, and 1 dual animation weekday scene) x 2 Threesome Routes + 2 animations for 'extra' days. The earlier weeks have slightly fewer, but not by a whole lot since I added in some additional earlier scenes. Even week 1 has 17 animations, 20 if you count the intro and prologue's animations as part of Week 1.

I honestly don't have an exact count, but even estimating low, there are probably 70 animations in the first 3 weeks, with 120 more planned (or already implemented) for weeks 4-6. Add in probably at least 3 animations each for the Epilogue week and we're over 200 animations...exclusive of the Harem Route that will be added as a New Game+. That route is going to be more kinetic, with minimal choices, but will likely add at least another 20+ animations. If Left Hand Magic comes in under 230 animations, I will be genuinely shocked. And if you've played very many VNs, you should be aware that those sorts of numbers are near completely unheard of for a Visual Novel. Particularly since these are real animations, most of them running at 30 fps, not the simplified 3-4 render flip-book style of animations typical for VNS. (On the other hand, you're just about spot on with the 50% comment if you look at it from the animated content perspective. Roughly half of all animations intended are now in the game)

Suffice it to say that my reasoning for limiting the weeks is out of purely practical limits. I'm a single person, not an entire development studio. As it is, the game is already hugely ambitious. More so than most of the really popular, far better-funded games, in fact. There's only so far I can reach without self-destructing T-T.
 

Orphanus

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Oct 25, 2019
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Not as helpful as you think. My games are already compressed into Webp for images and Webm for video. Literally all they did was hash the quality for very minimal gain. The uncompressed version of the game is 5gb+. My compressed version is 1.25gb. They cut that in half again, but likely screwed the quality up a fair bit in doing so. Applying another round of compression to an already compressed file is rarely a good idea.

As for the game's title. It references . At this time, there are no explicit plans for a sequel. One may happen, but I'm not really worrying about it since it will be most of another year before Left Hand Magic is scheduled to be finished.



Of course, I care :). Games are made to be enjoyed. I've never agreed with the idea that the 'artistic vision' of the creator outweighs the desires of the players. While that has to be true when it comes to things like maintaining the integrity and consistency of characters or the game world, that has to be balanced out with making the game actually enjoyable to play!

To be fair to you, the game is mostly lesbian. But I never considered it completely so because of Talia's presence. Futa's are something of a confusing issue, particularly when they are true hermaphrodites with both sets of equipment like Talia is. When I let people vote on the inclusion of a Futa, however, and they voted for Talia to be added as a futa, I planned the world around that. To me, that meant I couldn't have a 100% pure-lesbian protagonist. Nor could anyone involved in Talia's threesome route be 100% pure lesbian. That meant that both the MC and Arianna had to be at least somewhat bi-sexual, even if both might prefer women.

If it helps you decide on playing Build 10, Arianna's Weekend 4 content is all lesbian ;-). And Build 10 made the gloryhole scene skippable. You'll also likely already know what the results of the poll will be by the time Build 10 goes public, since I'll run the poll next month while working on Build 11. It's likely I'll include the results in the release notes. Assuming I remember to do so.

Suffice it to say that my reasoning for limiting the weeks is out of purely practical limits. I'm a single person, not an entire development studio. As it is, the game is already hugely ambitious. More so than most of the really popular, far better-funded games, in fact. There's only so far I can reach without self-destructing T-T.
Oh, well, I can see what might have added to my confusion, it's that to me Futa still counts as fully lesbian, especially if they are actual Hermaphrodites & generally even when there is no vagina, since I don't think I've ever encountered a single instance where a Futa character referred to herself as a guy (only if it was some transformation thing going on for a male character, but that is a different trope just in general) and especially none where the world the events play in treated Futas as anything other than female. Add to that the generally female body shape and the usually just fairly feminine vibes of the characters in question and, yeah...

I do understand if others treat that theme differently tho & I am very sure I would likely not be that open to it in real life, but there is ofc the factor Futas don't even exist in reality, by all accounts. So it's mostly just a thing I really enjoy in games & therefore am not really pedantic about it when it comes to the question if something still counts as 100% lesbian, which, again, is just a personal thing. So it never occurred to me the fact Thalia exists could have any implications on the question if especially the Protag is a lesbian. So if you don't mind I will probably treat her as a lesbian at least in respective to my immersion while playing. :censored:

If I may ask: does skipable mean it's just not shown, or does it mean the thing doesn't happen? Weirdly enough that does really matter to me indeed, even if the Futa thing doesn't impact my perception of something being lesbian. :unsure:

You are correct about me recalling the exchange we had where you said it's going to be about 8 weeks perhaps, but I also vaguely recall you saying you tend more towards 7, if possible.

It's also very true your game is quite ambitious, especially since you are doing it all by yourself and have to deal with the usual life issues around working a job to sustain yourself. This game truly deserves more attention and traction, it's very good & also just does a lot of things very right that one might wish for in a lewd VN. Good pacing, it's rich in content for each individual route, even has variations to the different routes & then 2 different poly routes on top of that, for those inclined, which then also offer variation, especially with the optional chastity stuff in 1 of them. Characters themselves are very varied & likeable, the story is interesting and definitely novel enough to be noteworthy in and off itself. Visually this is good, the animations are good, too, and that together I'd say counts as very good visuals.

One of the VNs I start checking daily for updates once a month has passed :D
 
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Oh, well, I can see what might have added to my confusion, it's that to me Futa still counts as fully lesbian, especially if they are actual Hermaphrodites & generally even when there is no vagina, since I don't think I've ever encountered a single instance where a Futa character referred to herself as a guy (only if it was some transformation thing going on for a male character, but that is a different trope just in general) and especially none where the world the events play in treated Futas as anything other than female. Add to that the generally female body shape and the usually just fairly feminine vibes of the characters in question and, yeah...

I do understand if others treat that theme differently tho & I am very sure I would likely not be that open to it in real life, but there is ofc the factor Futas don't even exist in reality, by all accounts. So it's mostly just a thing I really enjoy in games & therefore am not really pedantic about it when it comes to the question if something still counts as 100% lesbian, which, again, is just a personal thing. So it never occurred to me the fact Thalia exists could have any implications on the question if especially the Protag is a lesbian. So if you don't mind I will probably treat her as a lesbian at least in respective to my immersion while playing. :censored:

If I may ask: does skipable mean it's just not shown, or does it mean the thing doesn't happen? Weirdly enough that does really matter to me indeed, even if the Futa thing doesn't impact my perception of something being lesbian. :unsure:

You are correct about me recalling the exchange we had where you said it's going to be about 8 weeks perhaps, but I also vaguely recall you saying you tend more towards 7, if possible.

It's also very true your game is quite ambitious, especially since you are doing it all by yourself and have to deal with the usual life issues around working a job to sustain yourself. This game truly deserves more attention and traction, it's very good & also just does a lot of things very right that one might wish for in a lewd VN. Good pacing, it's rich in content for each individual route, even has variations to the different routes & then 2 different poly routes on top of that, for those inclined, which then also offer variation, especially with the optional chastity stuff in 1 of them. Characters themselves are very varied & likeable, the story is interesting and definitely novel enough to be noteworthy in and off itself. Visually this is good, the animations are good, too, and that together I'd say counts as very good visuals.

One of the VNs I start checking daily for updates once a month has passed :D
Good information. :)
 

Orphanus

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Good information. :)
If you mean by that that the last part made you feel like you might wanna try this VN out I can just assure you it's very enjoyable, in case you are into the general themes ofc! Also (since I know this matters to many people) the protag can both be dominant or submissive & also a switch, so there's a lot of control for the player. :giggle:
 
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I searched the thread but I honestly didn't understand, so I'm going to ask, is it possible to play a 100% lesbian route in the game, i.e without scenes with futa or men?
 
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Avaron1974

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I searched the thread but I honestly didn't understand, so I'm going to ask, is it possible to play a 100% lesbian route in the game, i.e without scenes with futa or men?
Yes, it can be played 100% lesbian.

If you want to avoid all dick just don't date the boss lady. She runs the place with an iron rod, literally.

With a certain gloryhole scene now being made avoidable the rest of the routes are lesbian centric.
 

NovusPeregrine

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Oh, well, I can see what might have added to my confusion, it's that to me Futa still counts as fully lesbian, especially if they are actual Hermaphrodites & generally even when there is no vagina, since I don't think I've ever encountered a single instance where a Futa character referred to herself as a guy (only if it was some transformation thing going on for a male character, but that is a different trope just in general) and especially none where the world the events play in treated Futas as anything other than female. Add to that the generally female body shape and the usually just fairly feminine vibes of the characters in question and, yeah...

I do understand if others treat that theme differently tho & I am very sure I would likely not be that open to it in real life, but there is ofc the factor Futas don't even exist in reality, by all accounts. So it's mostly just a thing I really enjoy in games & therefore am not really pedantic about it when it comes to the question if something still counts as 100% lesbian, which, again, is just a personal thing. So it never occurred to me the fact Thalia exists could have any implications on the question if especially the Protag is a lesbian. So if you don't mind I will probably treat her as a lesbian at least in respective to my immersion while playing. :censored:

If I may ask: does skipable mean it's just not shown, or does it mean the thing doesn't happen? Weirdly enough that does really matter to me indeed, even if the Futa thing doesn't impact my perception of something being lesbian. :unsure:

You are correct about me recalling the exchange we had where you said it's going to be about 8 weeks perhaps, but I also vaguely recall you saying you tend more towards 7, if possible.

It's also very true your game is quite ambitious, especially since you are doing it all by yourself and have to deal with the usual life issues around working a job to sustain yourself. This game truly deserves more attention and traction, it's very good & also just does a lot of things very right that one might wish for in a lewd VN. Good pacing, it's rich in content for each individual route, even has variations to the different routes & then 2 different poly routes on top of that, for those inclined, which then also offer variation, especially with the optional chastity stuff in 1 of them. Characters themselves are very varied & likeable, the story is interesting and definitely novel enough to be noteworthy in and off itself. Visually this is good, the animations are good, too, and that together I'd say counts as very good visuals.

One of the VNs I start checking daily for updates once a month has passed :D
I'm going to be honest here, the Futa thing isn't actually something I'm really into myself. I've added it to my various games because it was requested a fair bit and I don't mind it. Not like I do, say, incest (which won't ever be in my games, even if Patreon spontaneously recanted on their rule about it tomorrow). Which means my perspective might be a bit weird on it? I'm not really sure, though, since I've had people freak out about their being futa scenes at all. Including a couple of lesbians who were apparently turned off by them? In fact, I've been contacted by multiple lesbians who've said something to that effect. So, I kinda assume that, no, actual lesbians don't count futas as lesbian? Like I said before, they are sort of a grey area. Enough so that I should probably make sure even the MC-potion-futa transformations are skippable or something. Two of the routes have scenes like that where the MC can gain a cock temporarily for a single scene. *sigh* More alternates I should make at some point.

I'm glad you still like the game :). And I appreciate your positive words about it! I admit, I often get disheartened when I see zero-effort money-grab incest games soaring past any of my work in popularity T-T. Or worse, when I see more popular Patreons abusing their patrons with constant delays and barely-there updates, just to milk money out of people. It's seriously depressing to fail to get any traction when I see devs like that succeed and rake in 4x as much money for half the quality and less than half the content...
 

Orphanus

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Oct 25, 2019
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I'm going to be honest here, the Futa thing isn't actually something I'm really into myself. I've added it to my various games because it was requested a fair bit and I don't mind it. Not like I do, say, incest (which won't ever be in my games, even if Patreon spontaneously recanted on their rule about it tomorrow). Which means my perspective might be a bit weird on it? I'm not really sure, though, since I've had people freak out about their being futa scenes at all. Including a couple of lesbians who were apparently turned off by them? In fact, I've been contacted by multiple lesbians who've said something to that effect. So, I kinda assume that, no, actual lesbians don't count futas as lesbian? Like I said before, they are sort of a grey area. Enough so that I should probably make sure even the MC-potion-futa transformations are skippable or something. Two of the routes have scenes like that where the MC can gain a cock temporarily for a single scene. *sigh* More alternates I should make at some point.

I'm glad you still like the game :). And I appreciate your positive words about it! I admit, I often get disheartened when I see zero-effort money-grab incest games soaring past any of my work in popularity T-T. Or worse, when I see more popular Patreons abusing their patrons with constant delays and barely-there updates, just to milk money out of people. It's seriously depressing to fail to get any traction when I see devs like that succeed and rake in 4x as much money for half the quality and less than half the content...
I would be a bit differentiating with saying stuff like "actual lesbians" don't count Futa as lesbians, that is low-key offensive because you imply someone who doesn't mind Futa in games doesn't qualify as a proper lesbian, which in my opinion is not something anyone can really decide for anyone else but themselves, just the same way no one can tell anyone that they have to accept futa/female stuff as being fully lesbian, that's a personal choice. I mean we are talking about entirely fictional stuff, real Futas don't exist, so it's mostly about mere tolerance for certain things in smut, or lack thereof. Being fine or even liking Futa isn't the same as being fine with male partners in real life, and that is the exact claim one makes when saying people who are fine with it aren't lesbians. And if I'm allowed to be a bit prickly here I wonder how many of those saying what you suggested thought that some hypno m/f stuff was fine, sure hope it's none, cause otherwise that'd be extremely hypocritical. :p

Now, personally, I do know more lesbians that do hate it then not, of course, but (my personal opinion) it has also become a bit of a kink people in general like to freak out about as if it is a personal insult that Futa content exists. But that probably goes for a lot of other stuff as well & then some people just love complaining in general. Also it has to be said that there are different depictions of Futas, so the question if they even have female organs like womb & vagina, maybe even no balls, usually plays a bit of a role, too. So it's super hard to even find a common ground for what exactly is debated and what people take an issue with. I mean if they don't have female organs it definitely touches a much more real-life related issue & that then understandably is super derisive to some, depending on potential bad, personal experiences especially. At that point I'm out, cause I really don't wanna be the type of person that gives anyone the feeling they try to persuade them to do or don't do things related to their sexuality. That would be morally reprehensible, in my eyes.

I can imagine the frustration, it's super stupid. But imho the issues lie with the whole concept of paying people for not finishing products, which is always an undertone of patreon (and similar models) & leads to what you describe if the Devs aren't above making quick money that way. It's also true that more derisive content like Incest has a higher chance of attracting people who are willing to pay a lot for seeing their fetish turned into a (hopefully) decent game, because it's probably hard to find that. And then they end up in a spot where the Dev doesn't really deliver, but keeps them just invested enough to keep the money flow, because they are a bit desperate to finally get a decent game that they like.

Edit: Also in regards to the "still like the game part"...I hope, and at least try to, not to be the kinda person who's like "Oh there is 1 thing I'm not a fan of, now the Game is shit", especially not when I've been singing it's praise before and the thing I'm disappointed by doesn't even have anything to do with 85% of the stuff I was praising. I know it can happen & sometimes it's a single thing that kinda ruins the rest, but that's not the case here, it's 1 of over half a dozen wildly different routes that has the potential to include something that would made me stick to the other routes instead. Not exactly a good reason to think any less of the game as a whole, now, is it? :D

Edit: 2: Eh, sorry, but you didn't answer the question if skipping the gloryhole scene means it doesn't happen or if it's just not shown to the player, but totally happens. Since that has a major impact for me personally I'd really prefer knowing about it before going for Arianna's route again.
 
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NovusPeregrine

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Nov 27, 2017
338
626
I would be a bit differentiating with saying stuff like "actual lesbians" don't count Futa as lesbians, that is low-key offensive because you imply someone who doesn't mind Futa in games doesn't qualify as a proper lesbian, which in my opinion is not something anyone can really decide for anyone else but themselves, just the same way no one can tell anyone that they have to accept futa/female stuff as being fully lesbian, that's a personal choice. I mean we are talking about entirely fictional stuff, real Futas don't exist, so it's mostly about mere tolerance for certain things in smut, or lack thereof. Being fine or even liking Futa isn't the same as being fine with male partners in real life, and that is the exact claim one makes when saying people who are fine with it aren't lesbians. And if I'm allowed to be a bit prickly here I wonder how many of those saying what you suggested thought that some hypno m/f stuff was fine, sure hope it's none, cause otherwise that'd be extremely hypocritical. :p
Dude, dudette, or other. This is a Wendy's porn site, not a social media platform. Please don't actively twist my words to mean something I didn't say. When I said 'actual lesbians,' I meant people identifying themselves as lesbians contacted me. I don't know or care what their physical gender was. I was differentiating between people who identify as lesbians and people who merely think they know how lesbians think. I don't know what you identify as (and don't care). But what you originally said, that Futa's scan as lesbian to you, came across as someone on the outside looking in. That they come across as lesbian for you. I was re-emphasizing that they are a grey area by pointing out that people self-identifying themselves as lesbian have contacted me and told me they were turned off by there being cocks involved at all, even attached to a futa. The point was that even some people that actively identify that way don't 'scan' futas as lesbian. Hence, grey area. But that's a giant mouthful, and one I didn't feel the need to go into in excruciating details.

I apologize if that came off as snippy, by the way. You just managed to firmly press one of my 'instant irritation' buttons, is all. That sort of assumption just irks the hell out of me. Why does everyone have to default to being offended, instead of giving people the benefit of the doubt >_<? It wasn't directed at you specifically, so much as the sentiment you accidentally invoked :p.

I can imagine the frustration, it's super stupid. But imho the issues lie with the whole concept of paying people for not finishing products, which is always an undertone of patreon (and similar models) & leads to what you describe if the Devs aren't above making quick money that way. It's also true that more derisive content like Incest has a higher chance of attracting people who are willing to pay a lot for seeing their fetish turned into a (hopefully) decent game, because it's probably hard to find that. And then they end up in a spot where the Dev doesn't really deliver, but keeps them just invested enough to keep the money flow, because they are a bit desperate to finally get a decent game that they like.
It's actually the opposite. Incest content is incredibly easy to find. But that's actually for some pretty dark reasons. Unlike most other kinks, the origin point of incest fantasies is frequently actual mental health issues stemming from childhood abuse. In some parts of the world, incest levels of some degree, particularly father->daughter, actually occur in as high as 62% of the population. (In other parts of the world it's as low as 3.2%. Notably, however...it's never actually absent. Humans are fucked up.). Worse, several other issues, such as childhood abuse, often manifest later in life as 'daddy/mommy' obsession. The things I've heard from a few professional dom friends...well, some of it I wish I could scrub from my mind. No, not everyone who has an incest kink comes from a background like that. Obvious, but I figured I'd better say it before someone yells at me :p. It's tragically common, though, and the porn industry ruthlessly takes advantage of it. Incest is one of the most searched for content types across virtually all adult platforms...and thus it's also an easy market to throw random half-assed content into for nearly free money.

Edit: 2: Eh, sorry, but you didn't answer the question if skipping the gloryhole scene means it doesn't happen or if it's just not shown to the player, but totally happens. Since that has a major impact for me personally I'd really prefer knowing about it before going for Arianna's route again.
Didn't I? Ah well, it's easy enough to fix. If you skip it, the gloryhole part of that day doesn't happen at all. You enter the gloryhole, but safeword before anything happens. If you do, Arianna backs off and you simply go back out into the club with a promise to talk it over later (which doesn't currently happen, as I need patron feedback first). I also made it possible to do the blowjob portion, but then choose to safeword for the sex part so that Arianna takes over. Essentially, I did my best to let someone choose their character's level of 'okay with it.'
 
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Orphanus

Well-Known Member
Oct 25, 2019
1,237
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Dude, dudette, or other. This is a Wendy's porn site, not a social media platform. Please don't actively twist my words to mean something I didn't say. When I said 'actual lesbians,' I meant people identifying themselves as lesbians contacted me. I don't know or care what their physical gender was. I was differentiating between people who identify as lesbians and people who merely think they know how lesbians think. I don't know what you identify as (and don't care). But what you originally said, that Futa's scan as lesbian to you, came across as someone on the outside looking in. That they come across as lesbian for you. I was re-emphasizing that they are a grey area by pointing out that people self-identifying themselves as lesbian have contacted me and told me they were turned off by there being cocks involved at all, even attached to a futa. The point was that even some people that actively identify that way don't 'scan' futas as lesbian. Hence, grey area. But that's a giant mouthful, and one I didn't feel the need to go into in excruciating details.

I apologize if that came off as snippy, by the way. You just managed to firmly press one of my 'instant irritation' buttons, is all. That sort of assumption just irks the hell out of me. Why does everyone have to default to being offended, instead of giving people the benefit of the doubt >_<? It wasn't directed at you specifically, so much as the sentiment you accidentally invoked :p.



It's actually the opposite. Incest content is incredibly easy to find. But that's actually for some pretty dark reasons. Unlike most other kinks, the origin point of incest fantasies is frequently actual mental health issues stemming from childhood abuse. In some parts of the world, incest levels of some degree, particularly father->daughter, actually occur in as high as 62% of the population. (In other parts of the world it's as low as 3.2%. Notably, however...it's never actually absent. Humans are fucked up.). Worse, several other issues, such as childhood abuse, often manifest later in life as 'daddy/mommy' obsession. The things I've heard from a few professional dom friends...well, some of it I wish I could scrub from my mind. No, not everyone who has an incest kink comes from a background like that. Obvious, but I figured I'd better say it before someone yells at me :p. It's tragically common, though, and the porn industry ruthlessly takes advantage of it. Incest is one of the most searched for content types across virtually all adult platforms...and thus it's also an easy market to throw random half-assed content into for nearly free money.



Didn't I? Ah well, it's easy enough to fix. If you skip it, the gloryhole part of that day doesn't happen at all. You enter the gloryhole, but safeword before anything happens. If you do, Arianna backs off and you simply go back out into the club with a promise to talk it over later (which doesn't currently happen, as I need patron feedback first). I also made it possible to do the blowjob portion, but then choose to safeword for the sex part so that Arianna takes over. Essentially, I did my best to let someone choose their character's level of 'okay with it.'
You actually very much misunderstood me there, or maybe I didn't manage to make myself clear enough (though I felt as if my choice of words was actually very cautious, I wrote "a bit more differentiating" and "low-key" with a purpose, didn't think even that would come across as me trying to take a shot at you, if I feel like someone is being a dickhead deliberately I don't think there is any reason to conceal my intent to fire back openly, since that's just an even playing field for both parties then), but I understood 'actual' as in 'proper'...maybe it's not used as a synonym in English? In my native tongue it would be closer to saying real/fake than what you apparently meant to say. So I felt like it wasn't unwarranted or aggressive to point out that that would take things a bit far, which by the way was all I meant to say there. No offense taken, no anger at you or anything, just me saying that this is a topic people - in my experience - end up debating (sometimes in a pretty heated fashion) lively and where I really don't wanna try and make a call what a "proper" this or that would do. But I see now that wasn't what you meant anyway and your reply gives me the feeling you know that just as well as myself of course, so I'm sorry for trying to explain something you already are aware of. In my mind I was merely pointing out that this is a topic where people have to find out for themselves what they are comfortable with and what not and where it's a bit too much to define what is appropriate for others to feel or think + that it will likely end up in an argument^^''
The last part was just actually just humorous in my eyes, not a personal attack, but that goes both ways, I don't take any ill from you wrote now. :D

At the end of day especially on a site like this here I feel like there's not much to tell about anyone going by what stuff they enjoy in their smut, most of which is entirely fictional, and probably most if not all people get aroused by stuff they wouldn't be cool with in real life...or anatomically unable to experience more than once :sneaky:

Okay I mean I have no reason not to believe you (in regards to what you write about incest content) but then why are people - which of course might just be my impression - complaining comparatively often about this or that game here not having incest content? And, even more importantly, why are they willing to throw so much money at absolute subpar, life- and loveless shovel-ware spitting doodles at Patreon? I don't get that, especially when the games that exist are probably not that much less likely to appear on pirating sites, I mean it's not as if F95 has it out for that content, it's just the Devs who "often" don't wanna include it because they don't want to open that can of worms.

Also, on a sidenote, I will never get the review for an animé (don't even know which one it was, but one of these really fancy looking, highly stylized slice-of-life type series) where the reviewer described it as lacking any comprehensible story and being targeted at people with a weird crush on their little sister. The disturbing part was how much I felt as if that was a pretty accurate description, given the images used from the animation. xD

So that was the thing about the safeword, no, I think I just didn't understand that correctly before, my bad. Thanks for the clarification though. :)
 

NovusPeregrine

Member
Game Developer
Nov 27, 2017
338
626
You actually very much misunderstood me there, or maybe I didn't manage to make myself clear enough (though I felt as if my choice of words was actually very cautious, I wrote "a bit more differentiating" and "low-key" with a purpose, didn't think even that would come across as me trying to take a shot at you, if I feel like someone is being a dickhead deliberately I don't think there is any reason to conceal my intent to fire back openly, since that's just an even playing field for both parties then), but I understood 'actual' as in 'proper'...maybe it's not used as a synonym in English? In my native tongue it would be closer to saying real/fake than what you apparently meant to say. So I felt like it wasn't unwarranted or aggressive to point out that that would take things a bit far, which by the way was all I meant to say there. No offense taken, no anger at you or anything, just me saying that this is a topic people - in my experience - end up debating (sometimes in a pretty heated fashion) lively and where I really don't wanna try and make a call what a "proper" this or that would do. But I see now that wasn't what you meant anyway and your reply gives me the feeling you know that just as well as myself of course, so I'm sorry for trying to explain something you already are aware of. In my mind I was merely pointing out that this is a topic where people have to find out for themselves what they are comfortable with and what not and where it's a bit too much to define what is appropriate for others to feel or think + that it will likely end up in an argument^^''
The last part was just actually just humorous in my eyes, not a personal attack, but that goes both ways, I don't take any ill from you wrote now. :D
Ah. I see the confusion. So, I'm not an English teacher and will state outright that English is a mess of a language. It's more like three languages dressed up in a trench coat trying to convince its parent languages that it's old enough to have its own rules. Having said that, like many words in English, Actual has two possible, context-specific meanings.' ONE of those meanings is 'truly existing/real' which would be close to the real/fake usage you took it to mean. The other usage, which is what I implying, is 'existing at the present time.' Synonyms would be current/extant/existent. Since it could be read either way, it's an argument that could happen even among native English speakers, if one of them was intent on taking offense. For a non-native speaker I imagine it's even worse -_-.


Okay I mean I have no reason not to believe you (in regards to what you write about incest content) but then why are people - which of course might just be my impression - complaining comparatively often about this or that game here not having incest content? And, even more importantly, why are they willing to throw so much money at absolute subpar, life- and loveless shovel-ware spitting doodles at Patreon? I don't get that, especially when the games that exist are probably not that much less likely to appear on pirating sites, I mean it's not as if F95 has it out for that content, it's just the Devs who "often" don't wanna include it because they don't want to open that can of worms.

Also, on a sidenote, I will never get the review for an animé (don't even know which one it was, but one of these really fancy looking, highly stylized slice-of-life type series) where the reviewer described it as lacking any comprehensible story and being targeted at people with a weird crush on their little sister. The disturbing part was how much I felt as if that was a pretty accurate description, given the images used from the animation. xD

So that was the thing about the safeword, no, I think I just didn't understand that correctly before, my bad. Thanks for the clarification though. :)
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My pause here is one of utter confusion, to be clear. The whole reason that people are complaining about a game not having incest content is because it is so common that people expect it when there are family members in a game. They complain, because they are actively expecting the feature. It's that common. And they are willing to throw money at it because, despite it being common, it's so in demand that people always want more. Just because there at commonly hot blondes on Only Fans, doesn't mean people stop wanting more hot blondes on Only Fans. It's even worse with games, since someone can play through an adult game in a weekend...and it took the developer two years to actually make it. So, despite there being LOTS of incest games around, there is a constant demand for more of them. People literally can't create them fast enough to satisfy the demand for the genre. Hence why they always get support, even if they aren't very good...

On the other hand, my own games appeal to a relatively small comparative market. You would think that something as broad as Bondage would be in demand (I certainly did when I started making my games!). But it's apparently actually fairly niche. There aren't that many games that feature it, and of those games, only a tiny handful ever become popular. I can only think of three well-known examples off hand. And it isn't the primary focus of two of them.
 
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Orphanus

Well-Known Member
Oct 25, 2019
1,237
1,984
Ah. I see the confusion. So, I'm not an English teacher and will state outright that English is a mess of a language. It's more like three languages dressed up in a trench coat trying to convince its parent languages that it's old enough to have its own rules. Having said that, like many words in English, Actual has two possible, context-specific meanings.' ONE of those meanings is 'truly existing/real' which would be close to the real/fake usage you took it to mean. The other usage, which is what I implying, is 'existing at the present time.' Synonyms would be current/extant/existent. Since it could be read either way, it's an argument that could happen even among native English speakers, if one of them was intent on taking offense. For a non-native speaker I imagine it's even worse -_-.




...
...
...
...

My pause here is one of utter confusion, to be clear. The whole reason that people are complaining about a game not having incest content is because it is so common that people expect it when there are family members in a game. They complain, because they are actively expecting the feature. It's that common. And they are willing to throw money at it because, despite it being common, it's so in demand that people always want more. Just because there at commonly hot blondes on Only Fans, doesn't mean people stop wanting more hot blondes on Only Fans. It's even worse with games, since someone can play through an adult game in a weekend...and it took the developer two years to actually make it. So, despite there being LOTS of incest games around, there is a constant demand for more of them. People literally can't create them fast enough to satisfy the demand for the genre. Hence why they always get support, even if they aren't very good...

On the other hand, my own games appeal to a relatively small comparative market. You would think that something as broad as Bondage would be in demand (I certainly did when I started making my games!). But it's apparently actually fairly niche. There aren't that many games that feature it, and of those games, only a tiny handful ever become popular. I can only think of three well-known examples off hand. And it isn't the primary focus of two of them.
Ahh, I see, well, yeah, that is actually something especially prone to happen when there are no voice & facial expressions to take into account as well...which makes me realize that those are for a good reason usually one of the pillars of communication. :LOL:

For the 2nd part: Hm, that sounds logical, but it still seems quite entitled to me, after all incest isn't exactly the type of kink everybody feels comfortable with so it can't be expected of anyone to include them in their games. And usually (or maybe that's just something that happens because it hadn't been common beforehand) there are disclaimers by Devs, especially of VNs, that they don't include this or that stuff, more often than not 'incest' being on that list of things. But then again I feel like me only playing games that allow to stick to f/f content exclusively already narrows down the selection of games I really get into so much that I'm simply not aware of what are the most common themes all across the board.
 

Snafu

Member
Jul 21, 2017
135
111
Ah. I see the confusion. So, I'm not an English teacher and will state outright that English is a mess of a language. It's more like three languages dressed up in a trench coat trying to convince its parent languages that it's old enough to have its own rules.
James Nicoll agrees with you

 
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truaheday

Newbie
Jun 4, 2022
77
58
Ah. I see the confusion. So, I'm not an English teacher and will state outright that English is a mess of a language. It's more like three languages dressed up in a trench coat trying to convince its parent languages that it's old enough to have its own rules. Having said that, like many words in English, Actual has two possible, context-specific meanings.' ONE of those meanings is 'truly existing/real' which would be close to the real/fake usage you took it to mean. The other usage, which is what I implying, is 'existing at the present time.' Synonyms would be current/extant/existent. Since it could be read either way, it's an argument that could happen even among native English speakers, if one of them was intent on taking offense. For a non-native speaker I imagine it's even worse -_-.




...
...
...
...

My pause here is one of utter confusion, to be clear. The whole reason that people are complaining about a game not having incest content is because it is so common that people expect it when there are family members in a game. They complain, because they are actively expecting the feature. It's that common. And they are willing to throw money at it because, despite it being common, it's so in demand that people always want more. Just because there at commonly hot blondes on Only Fans, doesn't mean people stop wanting more hot blondes on Only Fans. It's even worse with games, since someone can play through an adult game in a weekend...and it took the developer two years to actually make it. So, despite there being LOTS of incest games around, there is a constant demand for more of them. People literally can't create them fast enough to satisfy the demand for the genre. Hence why they always get support, even if they aren't very good...

On the other hand, my own games appeal to a relatively small comparative market. You would think that something as broad as Bondage would be in demand (I certainly did when I started making my games!). But it's apparently actually fairly niche. There aren't that many games that feature it, and of those games, only a tiny handful ever become popular. I can only think of three well-known examples off hand. And it isn't the primary focus of two of them.
does this game have harem route?
 
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