- Aug 28, 2018
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- 3,984
- Thread starter Alexander Krisnov
- Start date
- Aug 28, 2018
- 1,975
- 3,984
Drop this in C:\Users\<you>\AppData\LocalLow\LOK Team\LOK Rebirth and extract it.
There's some scenes that aren't repeatable that being at this stage will not be able to be seen.
Furthermore you're at the point where you can rip your clothes up at night if you talk to the girl in your tent.
There's some scenes that aren't repeatable that being at this stage will not be able to be seen.
Furthermore you're at the point where you can rip your clothes up at night if you talk to the girl in your tent.
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Dear Developer. I supported the game until now.
Now? No.
Why? Because a game I was liking is supposed to have been cancelled/rebuild.
Will I do it again? If the new game is supposed to be better than it is now: yes.
When will I support? When the new content reaches the level of what i have played so far.
What made you withdraw support? I'm sick of putting up with bullshit-patreons. Before i support Bad Bobby Saga: In short: a fucking thief.
Until then, I recommend that you don't respond to anyone and focus on development, like Seam Murray did with No Mans Sky.
I emphasize that I gave 5 stars to this game.
Now? No.
Why? Because a game I was liking is supposed to have been cancelled/rebuild.
Will I do it again? If the new game is supposed to be better than it is now: yes.
When will I support? When the new content reaches the level of what i have played so far.
What made you withdraw support? I'm sick of putting up with bullshit-patreons. Before i support Bad Bobby Saga: In short: a fucking thief.
Until then, I recommend that you don't respond to anyone and focus on development, like Seam Murray did with No Mans Sky.
I emphasize that I gave 5 stars to this game.
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- Jun 8, 2017
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You know.
I have seem some people post stuff here, talking about "unfair critizism" and "talking bad about the game" and all this stuff.
Let me give you my opinion.
I like that they are commited to doing something more and improving the quality of the game, doubling down instead of cancelling the game. And I hope just as much as everybody else that this game is gonna turn out good and have regular and proper content updates after a while. I supported the dev in the early stages of development, before all the problems started to turn up. I hope they can fulfill their vision and have fun developing this game.
But.
Im not here to spare feelings and pretend that everything is fine and dandy. Im not gonna pretend that the devs didnt screw up for months and not properly develop the game with a lot of excuses for delayed content before they started the reboot just so the developers feelings arent hurt.
Yes, I know they have a bigger team now, I know its hard af to make a game alone. But I have seen people make Indie Games alone or as a team of 2 - 3, and I have seen those games developed, faster, more streamlined and with more updates WITHOUT any patreon support or kickstarter stuff before the release. There are prominent examples of succesfull (non-adult) developers who did their games without funding and still had regular updates. They had to do all the same stuff. Build game systems, make animations, draw the art, create the soundtrack, and everything else.
I am sure a lot of the people (surely not all, but a lot) who come here to write something about the game, some of which have supported the game in the past, only express their disappointment and worries because they would really like or have liked this game to succeed. So dont brush away critizism just because you are a big fan of the game and dont want to hear the bad stuff, or because you are a developer of the game and feel your feelings are hurt or you are treated unjustly.
We understand nobody is perfect. Just dont sweep the issues that happened in the past under the rug. Understand and accept that people are justified in being skeptical for now, until you deliver and show them that its worth trusting you again.
I have seem some people post stuff here, talking about "unfair critizism" and "talking bad about the game" and all this stuff.
Let me give you my opinion.
I like that they are commited to doing something more and improving the quality of the game, doubling down instead of cancelling the game. And I hope just as much as everybody else that this game is gonna turn out good and have regular and proper content updates after a while. I supported the dev in the early stages of development, before all the problems started to turn up. I hope they can fulfill their vision and have fun developing this game.
But.
Im not here to spare feelings and pretend that everything is fine and dandy. Im not gonna pretend that the devs didnt screw up for months and not properly develop the game with a lot of excuses for delayed content before they started the reboot just so the developers feelings arent hurt.
Yes, I know they have a bigger team now, I know its hard af to make a game alone. But I have seen people make Indie Games alone or as a team of 2 - 3, and I have seen those games developed, faster, more streamlined and with more updates WITHOUT any patreon support or kickstarter stuff before the release. There are prominent examples of succesfull (non-adult) developers who did their games without funding and still had regular updates. They had to do all the same stuff. Build game systems, make animations, draw the art, create the soundtrack, and everything else.
I am sure a lot of the people (surely not all, but a lot) who come here to write something about the game, some of which have supported the game in the past, only express their disappointment and worries because they would really like or have liked this game to succeed. So dont brush away critizism just because you are a big fan of the game and dont want to hear the bad stuff, or because you are a developer of the game and feel your feelings are hurt or you are treated unjustly.
We understand nobody is perfect. Just dont sweep the issues that happened in the past under the rug. Understand and accept that people are justified in being skeptical for now, until you deliver and show them that its worth trusting you again.
That may be right, but not setting any deadlines at all is a great way to not get things done.
- Aug 28, 2018
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It's a two step operation my dude, I'm not sure what to tell you.
Than let me ask you. If you would have to dig a 2 cubic meter big hole, can you tell me exactly how long would it take? Nope, because for you to say it, you need a certain amount of experience with digging and you would be in the need of the knowledge about the type of soil you gonna dig. They are in a situation that is something like that, they don't have enough experience in games because it is their first game. And they create some of their own assets and not work with given resources. Furthermore, they are in the production phase, which means they work on certain things and assets beforehand, so later they could work faster on the content of the game. To dig a hole, you don't start it without the needed equipment and resources otherwise later you would have to make many unnecessary rounds to acquire them. And lastly, it is still better for them to not state a certain deadline than to give one and later being unable to keep it. That would only make more trouble for him and for you guys to.
- Aug 28, 2018
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I hate this hole digging analogy because a sensible person would just research and learn about types of soil, tools to use, how to use them, and the most efficient ways to dig holes. There's only 99999999999 tutorials on youtube to make Unity games, and you don't need expensive certifications, work experience or city permits to program games. People have started and finished games from scratch in the time this has been around. One notable mention would be A Robot Named Fight which is a Rogue-like action platformer with randomly generated massive Metroid-level maps and tons of upgrades that change each playthrough. A run can take anywhere from an hour to 3 and there's a progression of unlocks that have to have internal logic to make the game beatable every time while remaining ramdom. Matt built the game from scratch, did the music, art, and coding all on his own and the game's out now for you to play, and has been for a while and still gets updates. Axiom Verge is another notable game made by a single person but I'm not sure how long that one took. Note that I'm mentioning fairly complex platformers with large maps, upgrades, neat plots, and tons of systems, as opposed to a point and click adventure interface (something that could be seen as far back as the 80s), or what they want to do now which is some RPG mess. Stop making this comparison.
I agree with Demon's Crust. There have been plenty of amazing independent games, albums, novels etc. that have been produced by one or two dudes in a basement. Take one of the most beloved indie games of all time, Cave Story. Not only was this game made by one guy with no funding, it was also initially released for free as well. There have been plenty of better games made with less funding in a shorter period of time.
- Aug 28, 2018
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The original and its many patches are actually still free, the console/steam re-releases with new features aren't, which is fine honestly. It's one of the games I replay every now and then, I'm happy that Pixel made it big.
Publishing a deadline is one thing, but I dearly hope they have the planning capabilities to at least be able to handle internal deadlines.
You guys are both right on this one and probably that was exactly the line of thinking that lead this team to originally try to make this game as they were.
But you are all missing one crucial detail: in every example you brought up, the developer had prior experience.
Matt's own profile says that he worked in the industry for 4 years before he started creating A Robot Named Fight, and Pixel already released a game 4 years before Cave Story, so he had experience by that time as well. Similarly, the creator of Axiom Verge (released in 2015) already worked on games back in 2011.
LoK's team had absolutely no experience and if they first set out to get that 4 years of practice we see in these cases, then this project would start in 2021.
Yeah, they made several major mistakes. There is no argument there. But it seems very likely, that the train of thought that led them to this mistake in particular is something you both share with them. So criticize at your own discretion.
- Aug 28, 2018
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Getting started in 2021 is not the same as getting finished in 2021. All the other examples had 4 years of practice before they started, so for the comparison to be fair, we'd have to wait to use it until mid 2021. And since we are talking about games that took at least 2 years to get finished, this specific angle of criticism won't be valid until somewhere around 2023. And i think that we can agree that by that point this project will most likely be either finished or dropped.
- Aug 28, 2018
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That was a joke but okay, either way it doesn't take you 4 years of experience to sit back and before digging a hole figuring out some kind of goal for it. How deep, how complex, etc. Also if we're following this train of thought, the team lead of this project had previous experience too, at EA allegedly. It's safe to say Kuja probably had experience drawing before this began, and literally everyone's had experience writing. So...
Sorry, it's just a bit difficult to notice jokes in plain text.
And again, it seems like you are mostly right, with one exception: They hired two experienced guys when they announced the restart. Gizmo, the programmer, who apparently worked at EA and Archie, a new animator who is quite active with his streams. They are only part of the team since august and not since the start of the project. That was kind of the point in all this restart. Plus they also brought back Vlad to the team if i understood correctly, but you can ask him about that if he shows up again.
It really didn't take them 4 years to figure out that they made a mistake, it took them 2 (still a bit too much, but what can we do now?). Kuja really had experience in drawing, and i think the art was good. They also had experience writing, as you said, and the dialogue also seemed just fine. At least i liked it. So, yeah, in the areas where they had experience, the team did well, you are correct when you point that out.
- Jun 8, 2017
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I just want to say I agree with both sides to a degree on this topic.
Deadlines can be good but let me say its better to have a rough deadline for now and not put pressure on themselves, if they hit the demo out of the park they can start setting up soft deadlines with some milestone goals and hopefully get most of those done in time.
At the moment, making a detailed deadline and then not keeping it would probably mean 50% of the supporters they have left by now would jump ship immediately. On the other hand, with just saying "sometime in December" they can make sure they have room and people wont immediately gtfo if they are 1 week or 2 later than they thought.
So from their POV it makes sense.
On the other hand, yes, considering they have so much expeirence on their team now I expect a clearn release schedule, as well as regular and reliable updates with a decent amount of content after they established their foundation with the demo. Anything else would just prove that not much has changed from before.
Deadlines can be good but let me say its better to have a rough deadline for now and not put pressure on themselves, if they hit the demo out of the park they can start setting up soft deadlines with some milestone goals and hopefully get most of those done in time.
At the moment, making a detailed deadline and then not keeping it would probably mean 50% of the supporters they have left by now would jump ship immediately. On the other hand, with just saying "sometime in December" they can make sure they have room and people wont immediately gtfo if they are 1 week or 2 later than they thought.
So from their POV it makes sense.
On the other hand, yes, considering they have so much expeirence on their team now I expect a clearn release schedule, as well as regular and reliable updates with a decent amount of content after they established their foundation with the demo. Anything else would just prove that not much has changed from before.
- Sep 19, 2017
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Apples to oranges. An indie developer announcing a game halfway through its development and the game being incredibly simply designed does not equate to what we're attempting to do here. It takes a long time, because we're putting FAR MORE DETAIL AND QUALITY into our work than "A Robot Named Fight" which is just a 2D platformer.
Just one of our character models with its 8 directions and amount of bones/rigging is infinitely more complex than most of the artwork in that game. You see, there is a vast difference in effort and technical prowess required. I can't expect you to appreciate the complexity of the game we are creating, but surely you can see the difference in quality.
We work 8-10 hours per day doing nothing but developing this game, the models have hundreds of moving parts per angle, this quality will be staggering when it comes together, but until it comes together you have two options, either wait patiently, or wait patiently and support our development. I recommend the latter because it allows us to develop the game faster with more resources.