Unity Abandoned Legend of Krystal: Rebirth [v0.8] [LOK Team]

[jireir]

I suggest you guys just wait for the demo to come out and then make up your minds as to whether to begin supporting the game again. I also find it quite funny how some people complain nowadays about the changes being made to the game with the stronger emphasis on the "game" part, whereas if you go back to the very beginning of this thread you will see loads of criticisms about lack of actual gameplay and the game being just a point and click walking simulator.

They are improving on it now and it does seem like the new iteration should be capable of delivering the things that were promised in the old one, but simply couldn't be delivered due to the issues with the code. Just waiting for the demo is the most reasonable way of handling this situation for now.

As for the lack of updates to patreon - that is something that could probably be improved to some extent, however with patreon's allergy to this kind of content it's a very thin line to thread on.

 

[Phanatic]

-stuff-

Sorry, Demon, but the more I listen to you, the more missinformed you seem. That maybe connected with just the way you phrase your thoughts, but a lot of your knowledge prior 0.8 is just wrong.

(All of provided further info comes from hanging out in LOK's discord channel for months and contacting with the developers personally. But if I misunderstood something from the talk with them, I welcome MightyAltroll to fix them if he desires to.)

- You allways speak of Kuja, saying that it was him not delivering the project, but in fact Kuja is an artist, not a project's manager - he has never being in control of leading the Project. Abelius was. So please stop saying everytime that it was Kuja's fault. Kuja is a really nice guy and a lead artist, but he was never in charge of the project's advancements. He actually has allways been far ahead of the Project's content that Abelius was able to built in to the game.
It was also Abelius who had the Phillipines 3 months adventure while Kuja was working all that time.

It may sound stupid, but shitting on anyone dealing with his personal shit is kind of wrong. Man had critical situation and he had to deal with it. How can anyone keep working when you have crisis on your hands in your personal life? He had to adress this problem of his to be able to continue working without back thoughts and thats what he did. Yes, it took him a long time, but he was pretty open about it and even warned his supporters on Patreon to withdraw their pledges while it was happening.
It was a dark time for eveyone, but to shit him for that is jsut wrong.
Personal life allways comes first no matter what - we are all human beings whether we like it or not.

- "Vlad has not been at the project when it started" is a wrong assumption as well. Prior to 0.8 most of the plot and story and dialogues were made by him. LOK until 0.8 is his vision as well, but distorted, since he used to already work with Abelius, but he and Abel were not able to find common ground and went their separate ways. Because of that final vision of Vlad's was changed and game didnt really go the way they initially planned (also because of Abel's programm abilities).
Now, when the revamp began Abelius changed his mind and re-hired Vlad as team's lead game designer once again.

- Giving a proper direction was never a problem to start with. The main problem was the mechanical/programming part of the project. Why? Because prior to revamp Abelius was in charge of everything except for art. He had to animate, porgramm, make script ater Vlad's story part ended e.t.c. And the main problem allways was the fact that he is not that expirienced of a Programmer. He makes fine animations, but his programming skills were mediocre at best and this led to inevitable problems that would just crush the game in the end.

- Game was going to die in a few more iterations without ever to be finished. Why? Because of all the mistakes Abelius made with the coding. He was often saying that code that was in 0.8 was made of Plugins placed on even more Plugins and in the end it would just bring the game to its unending bugs and problems. I cant say much about Unity's plugins, since I work only with UE, but from what I've heard Plugins on Plugins is a Uroboros of Unity- they will simply eat themselves - you just corner yourself into the inevitable tomb.
Because of that finishing the game that was up to 0.8 was never a good variant to go with. It would be just a waist of time, since they wouldn't make it far until they would have to accept reality, dump it and revamp the game one way or another.



Those are some wrong ideas you keep pushing every time you speak out. So please do no more. Its irritating to see missinformed opinions.
We want to critisize the game because we love it, but we should be doing it with the correct knowledge on our hands, otherwise it comes out ignorant and will cause no effect on the developers.


Now Parthornax,

I mean they are clearly struggling to make the "walking simulator version" WHAT THE FUCK MAKES THEM THINK THEY CAN PULL OFF A PLATFORMER RPG VERSION!?!?!?

And the answer is going to be - a completely new team of an actuall Game Development professionals. Team now consists of 5 members instead of 2, and 2/3 new memebers have an actuall Game Development expirience!

The main one being Gizmo - a new (and ONLY from now on) programmer who has an actuall AAA-game development expirience. He doesn't want to share his personal info, but he said that he worked for EA and took part in AAA games. And that IS HUGE, since now builds won't be built Plugin-on-Plugin, leading themselfes to imminent doom.

Project also has 1 more animator - Archie, while also making Abelius stepping down from all thigns to be just an animator under Archie's belt as well. In summ Project now has 2 animators instead of 1. Archie also has shown his Protfolio and it was pretty damn good. I don't have links, but I posted them a long time ago so they should be somewhere in this thread. If you look you can find them and check them out.

 

[Detective Cancer]

-snipsnop-

I thought I took that part about him being new out, my bad on that one.
The way this site saves unfinished messages is dumb.
r/oopsdidntmeanto

I always refer to Kuja because he's the face of the group usually, and he's the MRA, and the one making the most excuses.
I couldn't care less about what excuses he had to make for himself though, he openly hinted at being MGTOW.
The rest kinda comes down to what they do in November.

 

[MightyAltroll]

I normally only leech on here but this got my attention since it seems to be from the developer (Vlad maybe) so i want to take this oppurtunity, since this is a longer post than on most of the Patreon site.
But first I supported the project from the beginning with 10, last half year 20 buck donations. So there are (ex)supporters here, and its SAD that i get longer statements here than on partreon. As stated multiple times you should inform people there, cause thats where they pay you, not on discord or any streams. Often enough said, and not one bit taken to your heart, even with a planned restart.
As for you are sick of complaining, i was sick of unbelievable excuses why things couldnt be done, allways delayed and mostly never met any expectations. I even showed sympathie and tried to reason with other supporters who where really not happy. And after 0.8, which was a freaking downer for the wait, and the following announcement of the revamp, i quit supporting. Why did i quit? Because nobody ever asked on Patreon about that, and there was never any suggestion that might would happen.

I try to get this point very clear without swearing (which is hard), but any shit you take at the moment is well deserved for multiple reasons. Just adding new members and saying "all will be better now" doesnt work, when BP had more help to handle the oil spill the ocean was still wasted. Also, if you fuck things up like EA and handle your supporters like idiots, that can backlash on to you. You can be a good developer like Bioware, but when you join EA you have to handle their reputation (and since you are a fan of KOTOR, which is fantastic, you should get that reference really well) And lastly, until you can show something i wouldnt make so much fuss about whatever, its like a little dog barking loud.

Still, i would gladly see a reason to support you guys again just for the sake of a good Krystal game, even after stomping my expectations to the ground lately. If you want to check for my statements my name on patreon is Indiana Keks.

If someone uses their discord, feel free to post this on to it. I thought of posting this on patreon, but i dont want to be seen as someone who tries do decrease their revenue they get out from it, and i hate discord so i dont use it ^^
And at last, i am truly sorry for you naitive or better speaking/writing English people, i tried hard, really

"Because nobody ever asked on Patreon about that, and there was never any suggestion that might would happen."

We had to do it extremely suddenly to avoid damage to the project. The restart was necessary to continue the survival of the project, that is all you need to know, the rest is internal drama and I have no desire to throw anyone under the bus professionally. I can assure you that no one in this project is an idiot that just decided one day "Hey, let's restart the project. Everyone would be fine with that, right?" We didn't do it for a fashion statement.

"As for you are sick of complaining, i was sick of unbelievable excuses why things couldnt be done, allways delayed and mostly never met any expectations."

Have you ever developed a game? You'll find it is a complicated process. The original project manager had been going through a lot of personal trouble at the time and the game was suffering as a result. That time is now over.

"I try to get this point very clear without swearing (which is hard), but any shit you take at the moment is well deserved for multiple reasons."

You have every right to be mad at the restart, we anticipated people would be angry. But do you know what is better than some people being angry? The entire project being abandoned and more people being angry. We made a decision to keep it alive, incessant complaining about this decision annoys me because of the alternative.

"Also, if you fuck things up like EA and handle your supporters like idiots, that can backlash on to you."

Do not insult us by comparing us to EA.

"And lastly, until you can show something i wouldnt make so much fuss about whatever, its like a little dog barking loud."

I don't quite understand this, are you comparing me to a small dog because I am bothered by uninformed people spreading false information and negativity? If so, then I am afraid I am a sentient human being with feelings, emotions, and my own free thought, not an 'EA' representative as you so compared me to.


"Still, i would gladly see a reason to support you guys again just for the sake of a good Krystal game, even after stomping my expectations to the ground lately. If you want to check for my statements my name on patreon is Indiana Keks."

Then I recommend awaiting patiently for our tech demo, so you can determine whether we are worthy of your support.



In regards to information:

We cannot say much on Patreon due to their rules. I have explained this numerous times, over, and over, and over. If you want the most information, you can speak to us on discord. I try to respond to people on the patreon when I can, but it will never be as complete as what you can get from the discord.

We have made an effort to reach out to people and inform what we're doing with posts every week or so from our developers, but people seemingly ignore what we have said there. I even have to repeat myself numerous times on the patreon (and in the discord) in this regard.

If you do not get enough information from what we state on the patreon, do not join the streams, and refuse to join us on the discord to get the most information, then I don't know what else to tell you. I'm sorry if you feel jaded by the project, but there's nothing I can do about that. At this point you are actively avoiding the places where we have explicitly stated you can get the most information.

 

[Phanatic]

I always refer to Kuja because he's the face of the group usually, and he's the MRA, and the one making the most excuses.
I couldn't care less about what excuses he had to make for himself though, he openly hinted at being MGTOW.

I see where you come from.
Yes, prior to revamp Kuja was the one who communicated the most out of them 2 in the open channel in Discord, while all of the posts in Patreon were managed by Abelius.
But this negligence towards the person you adress is a huge modern game communities problem, especially on sites like Reddit. When you critique or just say some bad stuff and then adress it to the community manager - you make no point. Community manager is the face of the Team, yes, but there is nothing wrong that he did throughout development to earn this kind of response, those miscalcualtions are not on him.
Most of people on such sites just read what other people type without even checking whether its true or false statement and keep spreading wrong info about the person who haven't even done anything. The amoutn of hate that communtiy manager on R-Anthem gets is absurd, just becuase he is their representative, but in reality he did nothing wrong.

Please understand that adressing the wrong person may cause undesirable hate towards one specific person that doesn't deserve it at all.
Current Community manager of LOK Team is Vlad, so he will be communicating with people a lot, if he wishes so.
But when you want to adress the team and not Vlad specifically, please use "They" or "LOK Team" to describe developers as one, instead of uniting all the mistakes upon 1 single person.

It really pains me to read about Kuja being solely blamed in all of the problems. He is insanely nice guy and deserves a better treatment.

 

[MightyAltroll]

I see where you come from.
Yes, prior to revamp Kuja was the one who communicated the most out of them 2 in the open channel in Discord, while all of the posts in Patreon were managed by Abelius.
But this negligence towards the person you adress is a huge modern game communities problem, especially on sites like Reddit. When you critique or just say some bad stuff and then adress it to the community manager - you make no point. Community manager is the face of the Team, yes, but there is nothing wrong that he did throughout development to earn this kind of response, those miscalcualtions are not on him.
Most of people on such sites just read what other people type without even checking whether its true or false statement and keep spreading wrong info about the person who haven't even done anything. The amoutn of hate that communtiy manager on R-Anthem gets is absurd, just becuase he is their representative, but in reality he did nothing wrong.

Please understand that adressing the wrong person may cause undesirable hate towards one specific person that doesn't deserve it at all.
Current Community manager of LOK Team is Vlad, so he will be communicating with people a lot, if he wishes so.
But when you want to adress the team and not Vlad specifically, please use "They" or "LOK Team" to describe developers as one, instead of uniting all the mistakes upon 1 single person.

It really pains me to read about Kuja being solely blamed in all of the problems. He is insanely nice guy and deserves a better treatment.

Kuja has very little to do with anything. He is an artist, his trade is art. The remake is explicitly upon my shoulders as the new project manager, I have to deal with everything now. Abelius is now just an animator. Any and all complaints/blame should be now addressed to either me as an individual, or the team as a whole. Considering the team just does their work diligently, and are all completely competent in their trades, then I suppose it should all go to me. Which it already does, for the most part.

 

[Tank1]

Any updates as to when we might get a demo released? Safe to guess demo before holidays and first release after?

 

[chopolander]

To me, as long as they maintain Kristal's slow but rewarding level of corruption and humor in the dialogues, I think it's good that they do.

 

[Parthornax]

Now Parthornax,


And the answer is going to be - a completely new team of an actuall Game Development professionals. Team now consists of 5 members instead of 2, and 2/3 new memebers have an actuall Game Development expirience!

The main one being Gizmo - a new (and ONLY from now on) programmer who has an actuall AAA-game development expirience. He doesn't want to share his personal info, but he said that he worked for EA and took part in AAA games. And that IS HUGE, since now builds won't be built Plugin-on-Plugin, leading themselfes to imminent doom.

Project also has 1 more animator - Archie, while also making Abelius stepping down from all thigns to be just an animator under Archie's belt as well. In summ Project now has 2 animators instead of 1. Archie also has shown his Protfolio and it was pretty damn good. I don't have links, but I posted them a long time ago so they should be somewhere in this thread. If you look you can find them and check them out.

I will admit it is a little reassuring to hear that they have some industry talent under their belt.

but throwing more bodies does not solve all their problems. (unless their the USSR at Stalingrad)
It is IMPERATIVE for them to be organized.

1)- Consistent work schedule. (mondays-fridays 10am-3pm whatever, something like that. it will ensure that work gets done without burning themselves out.)

2)- Soft deadlines (if its done, when its done, it will never get done. Meeting deadlines will help restore loss faith from patreon supporters, while giving the devs a time frame to work with.)

3)- Distribute the workload (This guy will do this and that guy will do that.)

4)- Plan ahead. (So they don't have to rebuild the game again.)

We will see if they actually pull this off and make the greatest smut game ever or crash and burn like everybody else.
I think they should take of tour of the abandoned games section here on F95... It might humble them and give them more realistic expectations.

I hope they succeed, and if they do, ill gladly buy a nice silverware fork and eat my words.

 

[Sharun]

"Because nobody ever asked on Patreon about that, and there was never any suggestion that might would happen."

We had to do it extremely suddenly to avoid damage to the project. The restart was necessary to continue the survival of the project, that is all you need to know, the rest is internal drama and I have no desire to throw anyone under the bus professionally. I can assure you that no one in this project is an idiot that just decided one day "Hey, let's restart the project. Everyone would be fine with that, right?" We didn't do it for a fashion statement.

"As for you are sick of complaining, i was sick of unbelievable excuses why things couldnt be done, allways delayed and mostly never met any expectations."

Have you ever developed a game? You'll find it is a complicated process. The original project manager had been going through a lot of personal trouble at the time and the game was suffering as a result. That time is now over.

"I try to get this point very clear without swearing (which is hard), but any shit you take at the moment is well deserved for multiple reasons."

You have every right to be mad at the restart, we anticipated people would be angry. But do you know what is better than some people being angry? The entire project being abandoned and more people being angry. We made a decision to keep it alive, incessant complaining about this decision annoys me because of the alternative.

"Also, if you fuck things up like EA and handle your supporters like idiots, that can backlash on to you."

Do not insult us by comparing us to EA.

"And lastly, until you can show something i wouldnt make so much fuss about whatever, its like a little dog barking loud."

I don't quite understand this, are you comparing me to a small dog because I am bothered by uninformed people spreading false information and negativity? If so, then I am afraid I am a sentient human being with feelings, emotions, and my own free thought, not an 'EA' representative as you so compared me to.


"Still, i would gladly see a reason to support you guys again just for the sake of a good Krystal game, even after stomping my expectations to the ground lately. If you want to check for my statements my name on patreon is Indiana Keks."

Then I recommend awaiting patiently for our tech demo, so you can determine whether we are worthy of your support.



In regards to information:

We cannot say much on Patreon due to their rules. I have explained this numerous times, over, and over, and over. If you want the most information, you can speak to us on discord. I try to respond to people on the patreon when I can, but it will never be as complete as what you can get from the discord.

We have made an effort to reach out to people and inform what we're doing with posts every week or so from our developers, but people seemingly ignore what we have said there. I even have to repeat myself numerous times on the patreon (and in the discord) in this regard.

If you do not get enough information from what we state on the patreon, do not join the streams, and refuse to join us on the discord to get the most information, then I don't know what else to tell you. I'm sorry if you feel jaded by the project, but there's nothing I can do about that. At this point you are actively avoiding the places where we have explicitly stated you can get the most information.

First off, thanks for the answer, i really appreciate it that you took your time to answer/give feedback.
I never developed a game, i am a precision optician, which i believe let me do things you cant and the other way around, thats why i supported you since i believe that its better when i do stuff myself except the things i cant do. Feel free if you need to know anything about industrial optics, im happy to help (and condolate that you need to know this stupid shit)
Also i would like to make clear that i didnt say you are EA or BP, they just helped as reference. Well the EA thing was meant to be mean honestly, seeing that it worked gives me some pleasure and also makes me feel myself with shame, they are a form of the devil.

I will especially ask for your forgiveness for the comparison of the little dog. This is something, when said to me, i lost all abilities to talk reasonable in the past, because its like you said, a diminishing of a human being, and i am sincerly sorry for that. Even if its just the Internet and a special site, some things shouldnt be said. So again, im sorry.

To the information part:
I reached to that conclusion many times when i had little discussions in the comments or read them. And i clearly see your dilemma with patreon, i was an active supporter when they changed politics. But besides me, who has a personal issue with discord (and you are correct, thats not per se your dilemma) Other people have the same view (of to less information on patreon) and have different reasons not to go through there like time etc. But since you can have paywalls for news, i fail to see why there is no option for explicit content infos. And another big thing, but thats something i only heard, if you have votes on discord and not patreon, its somehow hurtful. If that happened i would like to suggest to inform about the vote at least on patreon. If that was a false rumor, i beg you pardon in advance, thats why anybody who reads this should treat this statement not as a fact

To end it on a hopefully good note:
Im really looking forward for the demo and first updates, because i hope to see a good, complete LoK title sometimes (out of fairness, i liked vG very much and credit it as a really nice Flash game)

 

[MightyAltroll]

First off, thanks for the answer, i really appreciate it that you took your time to answer/give feedback.
I never developed a game, i am a precision optician, which i believe let me do things you cant and the other way around, thats why i supported you since i believe that its better when i do stuff myself except the things i cant do. Feel free if you need to know anything about industrial optics, im happy to help (and condolate that you need to know this stupid shit)
Also i would like to make clear that i didnt say you are EA or BP, they just helped as reference. Well the EA thing was meant to be mean honestly, seeing that it worked gives me some pleasure and also makes me feel myself with shame, they are a form of the devil.

I will especially ask for your forgiveness for the comparison of the little dog. This is something, when said to me, i lost all abilities to talk reasonable in the past, because its like you said, a diminishing of a human being, and i am sincerly sorry for that. Even if its just the Internet and a special site, some things shouldnt be said. So again, im sorry.

To the information part:
I reached to that conclusion many times when i had little discussions in the comments or read them. And i clearly see your dilemma with patreon, i was an active supporter when they changed politics. But besides me, who has a personal issue with discord (and you are correct, thats not per se your dilemma) Other people have the same view (of to less information on patreon) and have different reasons not to go through there like time etc. But since you can have paywalls for news, i fail to see why there is no option for explicit content infos. And another big thing, but thats something i only heard, if you have votes on discord and not patreon, its somehow hurtful. If that happened i would like to suggest to inform about the vote at least on patreon. If that was a false rumor, i beg you pardon in advance, thats why anybody who reads this should treat this statement not as a fact

To end it on a hopefully good note:
Im really looking forward for the demo and first updates, because i hope to see a good, complete LoK title sometimes (out of fairness, i liked vG very much and credit it as a really nice Flash game)

I accept your apologies, and I am glad to have earned them.

In regards to patreon, I am sorry that I cannot inform everyone on the patreon as reliably or as detailed as I would like, but it is a sad reality.

In terms of votes, these are mostly 'spur of the moment' things, and they don't often affect much. The foot thing was honestly just a mistake. I've learned democracy is a shit show when it comes to the furry community as a result, and you would not believe how many issues I've encountered from people's own personal desires for the game. I try to remain unbiased in my development of the game, but I think it is important that we have a unified vision for it.

In the future, should we deem it necessary to have a vote, I'll make certain that our patreon webpage is included in it, so long as it isn't breaking some rule.

Cheers, - Vlad

 

[Gesellschaft]

You think the first game was close to finishing? You're naive and uninformed. I'm the project manager now, and I'm not the same dude who worked on 0.8. I'm the writer, who saw the project dying.

I don't really come on here much, because it's a place of uninformed and annoying negativity from people who don't even support us. It's quite difficult for me to make the effort to read this nonsense. Know that I want to make a good game, money is a means to an end for me. I took inspiration from KOTOR, because it was my favorite RPG of all time, and I think the combat will do well in this game. I learned from games that I have played in the past, and those that people have recommended to me.

Maybe some people are hesitant to support you financially because Patreon is historically a terrible platform that encourages lazy and sloppy game development behaviors such as feature creep and sloth. Look at how many projects on F95 alone are abandoned.

So take that initial reservation, then combine that with the fact that despite being almost labeled 1.0 (but supposedly nowhere close to completion), with a game in development for longer than two years to get the minimal amount of content we have, then are you honestly surprised when people don't want to contribute to its continued development financially?

I planned from day 1 paying for the game when it was released and I'm sure plenty of people that "don't support you" now will do the same. I still plan on doing so with your new proposed rework, but until you establish some credibility that this time will be different and it will be completed then I'll keep assuming the most statistically likely scenario of this being the next stage of a never ever project.

 

[MightyAltroll]

Maybe some people are hesitant to support you financially because Patreon is historically a terrible platform that encourages lazy and sloppy game development behaviors such as feature creep and sloth. Look at how many projects on F95 alone are abandoned.

So take that initial reservation, then combine that with the fact that despite being almost labeled 1.0 (but supposedly nowhere close to completion), with a game in development for longer than two years to get the minimal amount of content we have, then are you honestly surprised when people don't want to contribute to its continued development financially?

I planned from day 1 paying for the game when it was released and I'm sure plenty of people that "don't support you" now will do the same. I still plan on doing so with your new proposed rework, but until you establish some credibility that this time will be different and it will be completed then I'll keep assuming the most statistically likely scenario of this being the next stage of a never ever project.

People have a right to not trust us, that's fine. If you read my posts, you'll find that I'm annoyed by misinformation and negativity resulting from such false notions.

Also, we're not selling the game. It'll be free when released, so I'm not sure what you mean by paying for it when it is released. We're not really looking for payment as much as we're looking for people to fund our continued development.

 

[nicokira]

when the next version will arrive

 

[Detective Cancer]

-snip-

I'll refrain from saying his name specifically from now on then, it's a habit though because their team/patreon URL is Kuja.
As far as informing myself (didn't respond to this earlier, my bad) I'm up to date on about as much as I can gather off Discord every now and then, and I don't have access to the Patreon anymore for obvious reasons.
Like I said before, I'm just waiting till November at this point, cautiously optimistic, but far from uninformed, just bitter.
MightyAltroll giving his personal insights on the thread helped my feelings slightly but it's been 3 years like this.

 

[Deleted member 1670392]

...I grow increasingly tired of the misinformation this website spreads for absolutely no reason other than to get off on negativity...

But that's the only way I can CUM, by laughing at a good shitshow!!!

Frankly, what I've seen from your team so far is good in a lot of ways. Despite the naysayers, I think your stuff is worth another shot tbh. Make your game, make it good, and I'll gib the cash, and you can snort all the coke you want with it, as long as I can turn Krystal into the dirty little whore she deserves to be

 

[BOBINGTON453]

so whats going on with the game at the mo? i tried reaiding the comments and ther seems to be a lot of yelling

 

[Detective Cancer]

so whats going on with the game at the mo? i tried reaiding the comments and ther seems to be a lot of yelling

They're working on the Rebirth Remake, planned release for a demo is next month, just gotta wait and see.
That's about it.

 

[galindae]

next month is december?

 

[No.Name00]

They're working on the Rebirth Remake, planned release for a demo is next month, just gotta wait and see.
That's about it.

There is no such thing as "Planned release". They work on the game and release the demo as soon as they can. There is no fix release date for the demo because it would be inconvenient, seeing that they got several setbacks in the last two month to.