Unity Abandoned Legend of Krystal: Rebirth [v0.8] [LOK Team]

[MightyAltroll]

I understand that now. It's just that some other community managers (if you can even call it that at this point) in this forum are handling it so much better in comparison. Take a look at the threads for Future Fragments, Kincaid, or Dungeons of Desire for example. One of the devs of those games can frequently be seen in those threads, and they do their job quite well. Especially HentaiWriter of Future Fragments.

Yes, HentaiWriter is an amazing person whom I enjoy talking to, Valaska is also a great person, and both have far more patience and eloquence when dealing with certain people than I, unfortunately. It makes me not want to come here and talk to people who aren't excited about the game, but just want to complain. I'm not even saying their complaints aren't valid, either, but it's excessive and at this point, unhelpful to everyone.

And one thing (that you probably already know) is that this forum is filled with potential customers. Sure, a lot of people only download a pirated version of the game and leave it at that, but some people, myself included, will pay for the game if they like it enough. And a community manager that's not acting professionally or outright trolly can be really off-putting.

So you choose whether not to support a game based upon the merits and intents of the game itself, but rather the personal attitude of a dev towards you? I don't really agree with this stance, but it's your money.

The very first announcements I made in here came under fire for the most utterly ridiculous of reasons. I stated that I wanted to make a good game, and suddenly everyone went off about how it needs to be a porn game not a game with porn. Sort of bleeds my excitement dry to talk about the game here.

My complaints about this game isn't so much the slow pace of development. I can understand that as a programmer myself. But what I really dislike is lack of clarity and transparency. Why do people have to wait for anything to play at all for such a long time. In my opinion you can compile what you have already done and release that as a teaser of sorts. This allows the players and maybe even potential paying customers to voice their opinion on what's already done and what can still be changed. It also gives the players a good indication of what's done and not done in a very tangible form.

We have a

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. I speak to everyone daily within the Discord and explain our intents. I answer the questions of anyone who asks. We try to post regular updates on the Patreon. I even come on here even though I don't want to and it doesn't particularly benefit me to do so. There is nothing to do in the demo at the moment as the quests are being finalized and the animations aren't done. I have stated this many. Many. Many times in this very thread and extremely recently, at that.

I think I've said this before, but I think that the LoK team should look into things like time boxing, agile development, and things like that. Right now it seems as if they have a whole lot planned out from the start and are taking whatever time it takes to make that instead of planning smaller things, creating them, and then receiving feedback.

We have a small tech demo planned, and set backs occurred with our animator. We are waiting for animations.

Sheesh. Looks like I won't be joining the Discord any time soon with people like that. Just put everyone on the same pile as mark us all as people that just like to bash things, why don't you. How close minded of them.

This is my experience with this particular forum. There are some very nice people who legitimately wish to support us. Then there are people that complain for the sake of complaining and have no interest in supporting us, but desire some form of instantaneous gratification. I have people who send me suggestions and ideas all the time in the discord, who ask me questions, but here I almost never see such interest or involvement.

I am not an EA representative, I have said this before. I wish I was so that I could lie through a smile and turn all of the complaints into positive notes. I don't typically care to watch my words and I speak in a plain manner to people, as a person. People are free to DM me, @ me, email me, or anything whenever they want, and I'll gladly take the time to read and respond because I like connecting with people who also have an interest in this project, and hearing their concerns. I inherited this project from Abelius, and this is my story that we are producing. My writings, my characters. I have a substantial level of connection to them and I want to see the game made well. So yes, I get a little worked up sometimes.

I shall explain this once more, for those that may have missed it:

Our animator recently suffered a personal tragedy, at the worst possible time, while our other animator was on his way to another country. This, in addition with the fact that the model is extremely complex, and we had to throw our work out the window not once, but **twice** due to community feedback on the model, means that we have been delayed by 3-4 months. While our animator may be working somewhat slowly, the delays were unpredictable. However development has been steady in every other category. The coding has been progressing, plot/lore has been progressing, environment has been progressing, and art has been progressing. It is simply a matter of time until our animator catches up with the backlogged work and we can release a demo, **with** a head start into the main game's development.

I am deeply sorry about the delays. But I ask that everyone have patience. The game will be made.



And as a final note: Stating that you're not going to join the discord, while also talking about the lack of transparency is something I do not quite understand. Forgive me, but is it not odd that you would willingly ignore the largest and easiest source of information about the project, while also making it seem like we're not giving you the option to acquire information? Why not just join the discord, and ask something?

On which engine is the new game created?

We are making it on Unity.

 

[1stxknight]

Sheesh. Looks like I won't be joining the Discord any time soon with people like that. Just put everyone on the same pile as mark us all as people that just like to bash things, why don't you. How close minded of them.

For the past 3 months there has been very little if any good criticism for the devs to follow from this thread, its been mostly whining and hate. A lot of us have grown sick of it on here, legitimate questions and concerns from people trying to play the old version are often getting drown out and good criticism is getting swallowed in the flood of circlejeck hate-fest in this thread. So excuse us for being a little "close-minded" when all we find here is nothing but vile drivel and whining.

We see how its affecting the devs and killing their motivation if not hurting their sanity, which will no doubt hurt the game in various ways. So I myself atleast am trying to get them to ignore this thread so they can focus on the game instead of reading and responding to all of the hateful vile misinformation being spread throughout this thread.

 

[Phanatic]

Everything that just being said comes out of 2 facts:
1. There has been nothing for 5 months already. No game, no gameplay, no demo;
2. f95 is not a place that is focused on hyping the game for developer;

What kind of positive criticism do you want to have when you have nothing to critique?
People cant be excited when there is no visual representation about what they have to be excited about.
What do people ussually critique? Story, gameplay loop, dialogue, music, combat and for h-games sex scenes and corruption progress. There is none of that right now, because for 5 months there was nothing.
What do you have? Krystal's 360 turnaround - people here have voiced their thoughts about it - some positive, some negative, some neutral, the entire spectrum.
You've done some mechanics that you showed in the video, but they are bare bones without the meat nor substance, so why would people rate it in any way when its not done yet?
Animations are being made, but currently they are wips and saying anything about them wont make sense as well.

Maybe you want healthy critique in another field? Like plot?
Well, from my personal expirience everything has already been said and discussed in discord in the first few weeks of the project. MightyAITroll also showed no interest in changing his view of the plot nor how it should go or develop - he has a clear vision of his own, so that aspect of critique is out of the window.
New ideas and stuff? You have an entire batallion of people in the discord who already do that for you. I personally don't bother doing that no longer, because you have TONS of additional material like different comics, illustrations and previous LOK games that you can use for inspiration - just that would be enough for a few games already.
Dialogue? We have no idea how your dialogue is going to be like, but from the previous version, that you helped creating, people can say that you know your stuff and others dont really have to worry about it.
Maybe art critiques? Well, as far as Im aware of, Kuja's art is considered to be one of the greatest parts of the project and people are more than fine with it. From my personal expirience as an artist, Kuja can improve in some anatomy from time-to-time and I personally gave him feedback in dms when I saw where he could improve. But after the revamp came, discord server started to have tons more artists there on daily basis and I simply stopped feeling myself even needed or heard by that point, so I quitted that. Kuja's doing fine without me or anyone else from here.

So what do you want people to talk about? About the hype itself? All you want to hear here how they are excited to have in the future a game that is bigger, more complicated, with different designs in mind? Knowing that the last few months of the previous builds were a little bit unsatisfying?

You should make separation of your knowledge of the project and knowledge of random people who haven't seen what kind of future project has in your head. They simply can't know this. They can't share your excitement, because they can't expirience your thoughts. Even with all the info provided they can't make the final picture of the product. Hell, I can't make the final picture, because one time I was told one thing, but later on I'm told another thing that contradicts it. Also the way you designed your new view of the game is as you said "unique, nobody has done it before", so there is nothing to base the expectations off. Which only adds to the "questionable" part of the waiting. With that said I periodically visit discord for the news and I consider myself to be knowledgeable about the project (at least as far as a peasant in your ranks can be knowledgeable) and even with all of my knowledge I am still not sure what to make of it.



I also think that you make wrong assumptions about f95 as it's reason to exist.
F95 is not your place for developer inspirations, nor is it a platform to just praise games or give your ideas to the developers. People discuss projects in all ways here, but they are not inclined to ONLY praise it. But revamp doesn't have any content yet, so people discuss YOU, your management, your team and your project from other sides.
And not so many projects here have actuall developers coming here for feedback or additional ideas to discuss. Yes, some developers do that and I consider such projects to be unique in a way and I praise them for doing this. Managers of the projects like Erolon: Dungeon Bound, Wild Life, Monster Girls Project come to the thread, give updates themselves, answer questions and then take feedback that are given - just absolute legends for me. For them I feel like I can do art-fixes/suggestions, mechanical ideas, plot ideas e.t.c. because they act professional and its a pure joy to communicate with them. I hope that one day I feel the same way with you, but as if right now we are insanely far from it.


With that said I agree that there has been too much negativity in this thread for the last few months, but all this is due to the fact that your project right now is one big enigma. In theory everything sounds good and butterflies, but in reality it's been half a year without anything to play with a few months prior of lackluster updates of a previous version which doesn't help the final picture. Plus people who are lazy to go through 10+ pages of dialogue here appear from time-to-time asking stupid shit that both sides are fed up with, buidling up even more frustration for everyone.


Personally I'm both excited and unexcited at the same time.
I love Kuja's artwork and MightyAITroll's dialogue. I love furry stuff and blue space nymphomaniac Vixen with your kinky dialogue and story. And I can't wait to see what you are going to do with that, knowing that I was in love with the previous iteration of the game.
I am not excited about all the new design choices and complexities you've chosen to stick with. It's now much more complicated project that will require much more time to execute from all points of development and I'm worried whether you will be able to do it. Just saying "We shall manage, don't worry" doesn't inspire me, because as a gamer I've heard the same words from every single developer and only a little bunch of them were able to actually deliver, while others bumped on their asses and failed tremendously. Actions speak louder than words and by now we've been in 5 months wait without anything in the end (and the Feet Wars don't persuade me in your abilities, but rather in the other direction).

Personally, I don't need anything from you as if right now. I'm sure that you work as hard as you can. I know that Archie got hit hard in his New Year and I know that he needed time to come back from that. I dont require any answers nor excuses nor reasons behind what you do. As a game developer myself I understand that you need time to execute your vision and that's pretty much it.

And really I think that you don't need any of this right now - nor f95, nor criticism, nor feedback. You just need to keep on working in peace and that's it, nothing more.

But the same freaking situation just keeps on repeating itself:
Someone makes a negative comment, whether its bullshit or not. AITroll comes here and answers it, sometimes being frustrated, saying something out of place. Other people then answer the answer with "keks" and "lols" and "how unprofessional". AITRoll then goes to discord and complains about f95 and how everyone sucks here, getting support from others in him complaining. Then one of them comes back here and makes a statement of sorts "You dont pay them anything, thus you are not allowed to say anything either". In the end both sides end up being frustrated and pissed and disappointed in each other.​

Say what, how about you do what you said? How about you ditch f95 untill the demo is out? Then this entire situation would just not happen. Yes, there will be people coming and asking stupid stuff or claim stupid shit about the team, but its the Internet - it happens all the time with every single project. But at least this way you would save your nerves and health.
There is also a variant, as it was mentioned before, to make someone more stress-resistant to represent you here, if you want keep having your presence here.

I'm more than sure that situation will change once your demo is out.

 

[Joyvankek]

The very first announcements I made in here came under fire for the most utterly ridiculous of reasons. I stated that I wanted to make a good game, and suddenly everyone went off about how it needs to be a porn game not a game with porn. Sort of bleeds my excitement dry to talk about the game here.

While I would love to have adult themed(Not just by porn, but themes, topics and problems) RPG game, I doubt there is any chance for that in the near future. Nevertheless if you are developer on something like patreon or other crowd scam... I mean founding platform, then at least by formality you are suppose to listen to the ones who pay for your work.(Though the working of that site are a joke, and in reality people pay for promise of product, not for product itself.) Your personal aspirations and desires can stay in realm of hobby projects. Unless you will find investor/group of investors, who would found the thing you actually want to made or you will be able to found it on your own.

I still wish you luck, I enjoy what you guys made so far, and will follow the project.(Not these strange dramas, you seems to be involved in.)

So you choose whether not to support a game based upon the merits and intents of the game itself, but rather the personal attitude of a dev towards you? I don't really agree with this stance, but it's your money.

It seems like something fans of the Witcher saga had to endure with archdick Sapkowski.(Author of the Witcher books)
You may respect someone as an author/dev, while calling him out, out of his work, for how he act as a human.
Insulting your potential clients is never wise business practice.

We see how its affecting the devs and killing their motivation if not hurting their sanity

Really? Mean comments on the web hurt their feeling and sanity? God damn it, you guys probably have easy lives if these are the problems that are driving you insane.

 

[156_163_146_167]

So you choose whether not to support a game based upon the merits and intents of the game itself, but rather the personal attitude of a dev towards you?

It's not the deciding factor, but at the same time I don't want to reward behaviour that I'm against. And if you did not think your involvement in this thread would have an effect on the game's success, you wouldn't be here to begin with. So showing good behaviour and being professional can only get you your desired result better or more easily, right?

I stated that I wanted to make a good game, and suddenly everyone went off about how it needs to be a porn game not a game with porn.

Sure, there is a portion of people that feel that way, but I do not consider myself among them. And if that sort of response is enough to make you want to give up on this forum, then do so

I even come on here even though I don't want to and it doesn't particularly benefit me to do so.

Then why continue to come here? It sounds like it's only taxing you without giving anything in return to you, the team, or the game. What makes you come back here every time?

There is nothing to do in the demo at the moment as the quests are being finalized and the animations aren't done.

Right, but there's at least something to show. I trust you haven't been sitting on your asses the entire time.

There are some very nice people who legitimately wish to support us. Then there are people that complain for the sake of complaining and have no interest in supporting us

I consider myself to be part of neither of those groups, so where would you put me? I want the game to succeed. I really do. That's why in the past I've suggested ways to better plan the game and its development. And that's why I'm hammering on the idea of showing something and getting user feedback so much.

For the past 3 months there has been very little if any good criticism for the devs to follow from this thread

Understandably so. What is there to critique? People have voiced their opinion when something here has been shown, like the 360 of Krystal, but apparently that's just hating for the sake of hating, I guess.

legitimate questions and concerns from people trying to play the old version are often getting drown out

Most of those questions and concerned have already been answered elsewhere in this thread since the old version came out, so it makes sense that that gets "drown out". People either get their answer, or are referred to the search bar above to find it themselves. What else do you expect?

good criticism is getting swallowed in the flood of circlejeck hate-fest

So what do you consider good criticism, and what is the flood of circlejerk hate-fest? Where do you draw the line? When does feedback lose its value?

So I myself atleast am trying to get them to ignore this thread so they can focus on the game instead of reading and responding to all of the hateful vile misinformation being spread throughout this thread.

I completely agree that not visiting this thread would do the devs good.

 

[BonelessSlayerUwU]

Mighty atrolll is bad keks lulz

 

[Joyvankek]

Mighty atrolll is bad keks lulz

Wait a second is this /hgg/ >>>/bunker/ or are you guys from 4reedit?

 

[Valaska]

Mighty atrolll is bad keks lulz

lol well, he just is a bit stressed out and as he admitted... not great at dealing with people who are challenging their project with no work up yet. He's a really good guy and good at what he does too. As I said earlier, writers get thrust into the PR role for most projects. But that doesn't mean we're prepared for it.

On which engine is the new game created?

Unity, my good man!

I understand that now. It's just that some other community managers (if you can even call it that at this point) in this forum are handling it so much better in comparison. Take a look at the threads for Future Fragments, Kincaid, or Dungeons of Desire for example. One of the devs of those games can frequently be seen in those threads, and they do their job quite well. Especially HentaiWriter of Future Fragments.

And one thing (that you probably already know) is that this forum is filled with potential customers. Sure, a lot of people only download a pirated version of the game and leave it at that, but some people, myself included, will pay for the game if they like it enough. And a community manager that's not acting professionally or outright trolly can be really off-putting.

My complaints about this game isn't so much the slow pace of development. I can understand that as a programmer myself. But what I really dislike is lack of clarity and transparency. Why do people have to wait for anything to play at all for such a long time. In my opinion you can compile what you have already done and release that as a teaser of sorts. This allows the players and maybe even potential paying customers to voice their opinion on what's already done and what can still be changed. It also gives the players a good indication of what's done and not done in a very tangible form.

I think I've said this before, but I think that the LoK team should look into things like time boxing, agile development, and things like that. Right now it seems as if they have a whole lot planned out from the start and are taking whatever time it takes to make that instead of planning smaller things, creating them, and then receiving feedback.


Sheesh. Looks like I won't be joining the Discord any time soon with people like that. Just put everyone on the same pile as mark us all as people that just like to bash things, why don't you. How close minded of them.

For sure... I'll be trying to step in and I'm talking with MightyAltroll and the team and trying to get him out of a situation that just keeps doing a negativity feedback loop. He feeds the negativity because he's stressed and it will just keep growing. Hopefully, we can get things settled down here and some questions about the project answered, and everything on track to a more habitable situation. I get a lot of people's frustration but yeah the project has evolved and there's no unchambering that round now it's been fired.

I agree, and even if people here won't be customers they have friends and they'll talk with those friends. So you can foster a bad reputation pretty quickly on a large forum like this. Especially with how many people are truly interested in this game here. I hope I can turn this a bit more positive and help out as much as possible. This all reminds me of that lawbreakers guy haha, but in this instance, MightyAlTroll really does mean well, but we all have strong and weak points and dealing with this situation isn't his strongest.

For clarity and transparency, the best they (LOK) can do right now is the Trello, maybe I can talk to them about a sit rep report. But they have addressed why they made the change, I just don't know if it was addressed publicly enough. If people still have questions, then it would appear not. As a programmer, I'm sure you know the stages of game dev, they've stepped well past Design Document and are somewhere between Prototype and Production.

As a small indie team, they're really having to do both. You are seeing production elements while they are still doing prototype. We had the same situation over in TDD where we were still designing the game as we were creating stuff haha. For laymans out there it looks like;

1. Ideas & Pipe Dreams
   • This is where we ALL were at in high school haha. "Wouldn't it be awesome if there was a game that did X and Y and you could Z, etc. Your high flying ideas and pipe-dream stage.
2. Pitch
   • Normally to a producer/publisher/investors. But here and now in the new development stage, it often references crowdfunding and to people, like you guys and gals here on F95! We want to sell our dreams and visions to you guys. Things we want to make a reality for you all to experience.
3. Concept
   • This step can come before or after pitch now with crowdfunding. Back in the past, it meant your pitch was accepted and now you have to decide what the game is. LOK and even our project PFF had to do this before the pitch since we only get one shot typically.
4. Game Design Document
   • This is an internal document that you will lay out things like game mechanics, gameplay loops, feedback loops, what you want to and can accomplish and how. This is often a stage where reality hits you like a fucking sack of pissed off bricks.
5. Prototype
   • Creating the core architecture of the game and basic gameplay loops. Demonstrations of things working, functioning, etc. This is what Pre-Alpha actually should be... but companies like CIG have made it sound like it should be a full demo.
6. Production
   • This is when you start game design, level design, programming your features and content. It's content creation at this stage.

LOK, like most crowdfunded games, is in a stage between 5 and 6. They are doing game design and level design, while also programming, and they are coming nearer and nearer to pulling themselves out of prototype. Something like a demo or vertical slice, or even just an example of the game will be possible then.

Right now they are doing the best they honestly can by showing the current mechanics and developments as they are laying the core architecture foundation. Things like videos of them;

• using ladders
• moving obstacles
• climbing ledges
• dialogue system
• recruiting companions
• character animations & rigs
• inventory
• trade

Is a list of things they've shown. And technically this is more of a game they had before! and much faster when you look back at the history of the project. As more and more art assets are finished I am sure we'll begin seeing more and more teasers, but right now it would be a pretty barren demo and having a barren tech demo can actually hurt you more than help. TDD actually had a project before PFF, not many people know this, and it was named ScrewDriver. The tech demo was extremely spartan and simple, just 4 or 5 unit types and a multiplayer turn-based competitive fight on one map.

The Tech Demo has so little to it that most people got driven off, thinking the project was never going to be more. But to the contrary, it was going to be a huge project with an in-depth storyline etc. It was more ambitious than Price For Freedom was by far! And it's part of why we had to keep out scope so focused and constrained to the rails for PFF. Our demo had to be tight and encompass a ton of our core features.

LOK Team has to be careful about the tech demo, and I hope that helps explain why nothing is up just yet. What they have already though is a framework that's already more expansive than anything they had in LOK Rebirth 1. It's pretty impressive seeing as it's so much more in-depth and an actual game compared to anything we've had on the LOK heritage.

The discord really isn't that bad, to be honest! It has a blend of supportive passionate persons, constructively critical, and then some... not so constructively critical ones. Like one guy who mocked the team when they believed one of their members had succumbed to an attempt of suicide. Mighty is on edge because of this still, so I understand it may be hard but I to appeal some patience and understanding, if possible.

Phantas

Thank you a ton, Phantas! I'm going to field more and more of the conversation here. We need to return this to a more civil state where developers and fans, or even potential customers will be able to communicate in a more direct and positive manner. They'll more than likely have a lot more time to do that once they get through this crunch period they are in.

I totally get where you are personally coming from too. The unknown is a hard thing to put your financial support into. It's a thing of trust, and some people are more willing to trust what the team has shown so far. Others need something more concrete. Neither are wrong, it's all just how we're wired as individuals.

I agree Might should probably take a breather until the demo is out. I am personally just trying to bring things from a hostile tone to a more productive and civil one haha. I thank you and many others in this thread, and I understand some felt attacked by an outburst of emotion. But hey, we're all guilty of those moments in life. Hopefully, we can all forgive and move on here.



I hope we can all move forward towards clarity and understanding between you fans, the developers, and... I don't know where I was going with the third group haha. But yeah. Let's all work together to get what we all want .

More Krystal Porn.

 

[Valaska]

While I would love to have adult themed(Not just by porn, but themes, topics and problems) RPG game, I doubt there is any chance for that in the near future. Nevertheless if you are developer on something like patreon or other crowd scam... I mean founding platform, then at least by formality you are suppose to listen to the ones who pay for your work.(Though the working of that site are a joke, and in reality people pay for promise of product, not for product itself.) Your personal aspirations and desires can stay in realm of hobby projects. Unless you will find investor/group of investors, who would found the thing you actually want to made or you will be able to found it on your own.

I still wish you luck, I enjoy what you guys made so far, and will follow the project.(Not these strange dramas, you seems to be involved in.)



It seems like something fans of the Witcher saga had to endure with archdick Sapkowski.(Author of the Witcher books)
You may respect someone as an author/dev, while calling him out, out of his work, for how he act as a human.
Insulting your potential clients is never wise business practice.



Really? Mean comments on the web hurt their feeling and sanity? God damn it, you guys probably have easy lives if these are the problems that are driving you insane.

Howdy there.

So, several adult RPG's are being made and a few have actually released in the form of Last Soverign, P&C, Rance, etc. It happens quite often especially in eastern markets, and the market is there for the west too. Games like KOTOR are not particularly mechanically complex. After the core architecture is finished, it's all art assets and writing with programming a few things like the quests and such or putting dialogue into the game. This can be sped up with dialogue node editors.

But the thing is you are separating NSFW RPG's and normal RPG's. I don't know why... as the two take the same work and methods to be honest haha. Just one has way more fun cutscenes. Crowd Funding isn't a scam either, if a project languishes and doesn't put out updates it will naturally drop funding etc. It's more than a lot of crowd funding games go outside of their scope and keep expanding, making it impossible to actually deliver their content. Like that SHroud of the Avatar game for instance.

But there are plenty of projects that maintain their scope and deliver a great product. Shadow Run, Path of Exile, Battletech, Wasteland 2, Sunless Sea, Sunsless Skies, Blasphemous, The Last Soverign... the list goes on and on. Plenty of great RPG's have released via crowdfunding, and plenty more will. I get it, we've all been burned on a project or two. We've all seen the massive crowdfunding failures like Star Citizen, Mighty No.9, etc. The fans of LOK Rebirth also... generally are receptive to the changes. The old game was reaching its limits and they had to move on. They hired a professional programmer, and it would have been as much work to re-factor the old game and clean up it's programming.

But yeah I think they did something pretty great in the LOK sphere, too. Most games have just rehashed the playshapes models and ran into the same pitfalls. It's pretty darn cool you can set that all aside and still go "hey, you did gud. I hope you do gud in the future, too." A lot of people wouldn't be able to do that tbh. I am excited to see the eventual result too.



Hah... I've actually been an auxiliary in a police force when I was on my practical placement. I was shot at, stabbed, I've been stabbed before that... also shot at before that lol. Reserves are not safe places. And to be honest when I see people just mercilessly shit on my project (PFF) it hurts pretty darn bad. Like, yes in the grand scheme it might seem silly, but this is something you've put a part of yourself into, yeah? It can be hard to put it into words how it makes you feel until you are in that situation I guess.

I totally get what you mean haha, but still, it's a difficult thing to get through for the majority of people. I hope we can all get to a situation where everyone is at least comfortable with the state of things. Take it easy, Joyvankek.

 

[Valaska]

Will you pay the man 10k a month? lol

lol again, it was a bit out of turn but it was in frustration. Though you do bring up a good point, animators in other industry for as much work as LOK are doing right now would be getting paid 4-6k USD a month. Which is about what the entire team is making each month now. But that's kind off-topic, just numbers.

But yeah that was an unreasonable demand to make and all, and was an improper way to address criticism. But as I said earlier, he was frustrated and lashed out.

 

[kenji322]

I miss this game.

 

[Ruffy2010]

Unity, my good man!


Can you make it so that you can easily translate the game into several languages? Like in this game, https://f95zone.to/threads/goons-raid-her-v0-4-3-the-architect.25782/ where the dialog file is in the folder, in case someone wants to translate it?



[/QUOTE]

 

[Valaska]

Unity, my good man!


Can you make it so that you can easily translate the game into several languages? Like in this game, https://f95zone.to/threads/goons-raid-her-v0-4-3-the-architect.25782/ where the dialog file is in the folder, in case someone wants to translate it?

[/QUOTE]

I can pass that along to them, I'm not sure how they are handling their dialogue in the project you sent. Is it a linear visual novel? Or does it have branching conversation paths? Also how do the community translations hold up? Are they pretty accurate and such I mean to ask.

But yeah nifty, I'll pass that a long to the LOK team in a minute or so and see what they think.

 

[SicilyAB]

I still don't understand why you decided to scrap the project and start from scratch. Was the project that broken at it's core? How long did the original project take with one person? It seems that adding new crew was too overzealous in your approach because you haven't even gotten close to the original after 4 months.

 

[lucifersbliss]

... I feel like bashing everyones heads together.

Everyone on all sides are making good points. Problem is, one side, the critics, are bieng over zealous. They're coming up with all kinds of crap that while it makes sense in theory, in practice it often isn't so simple. For example, working on a project for a long time, motivation dips and climbs. Yet the team has not been spending much time relatively speaking to the type of game it is and the progress they've made (or would have, i'll touch on this) and it has yet to enter a realm that is just completely unreasonable.

What ticked me off however was the change in model and genre. Moving from a 2D experience to a somewhat RPG or 2.5D experience, while also changing the model, almost completely reset all that progress to zero.

Everyone is spending a lot of time beating around the bush but this should be the core subject.

Malice and the Machine was one that did the same. It saw promise and progress, slow as it was. Which already started ticking everybody off, but then they decided to scrap all that and completely redo the engine. This feels very similar to that, check over there and notice how the project is marked as abandoned now. The chances of them ever finishing that game are slim to none.

This is more likely to do with a lack of ambition and motivation by the developers. Further seen by how they're now working on a much easier to develop game.

In this situation it seems to be doing the opposite.

Idk if they've explained the why behind this change, but i doubt there's a good reason. The previous model was brilliant, the art was billiant, and the animation, though slow paced, made me wonder what would happen for the more hardcore. Especially the "slave" route.

Now it feels like a completely different project.

In the end i STILL remain silent because in the end i want to wait until it is at least passed the point of no return, a done deal, and i can enjoy what the game becomes from that point on.

You see people enjoying games like succulance and cursed armor, games that dump massive amounts of content by the similar sized dev teams all year around. Both of which still maintaining that same pace in their sequals.

But expecting other developer teams to maintain that same pace is also not fair. But you have to understand that it gives you perspective. So making excuses as to why its taking longer becomes very unconvincing.

Its a psychological clusterfuck but both sides annoy me in this situation.

This project has not yet crossed the line like malice and the machine.
But this project is also showing very similar traits to the team that worked on malice in the machine.

If i was the devs, i'd table the new stuff and resume work on the original, get that done, then call the new work a sequal and resume work on that then. Just seems really simple tbh, a logical choice, one of common sense, and everyone is happy that way. So long as the project maintains its steady pace of course.

A reset to zero is bound to piss people off. Even if mechanically, it isn't. Perception is key.

 

[Valaska]

I still don't understand why you decided to scrap the project and start from scratch. Was the project that broken at it's core? How long did the original project take with one person? It seems that adding new crew was too overzealous in your approach because you haven't even gotten close to the original after 4 months.

Ey there mate! I answered that one for the LOK team above but I get my posts were long haha. So I'll give a direct response to you.

Originally they were doing the game with more amateur programmers. The game itself was starting to suffer from slowdowns and hitches, they'd pushed their code base as far as it could go. They had more mechanics to go and well over a dozen characters to do at least. To speed up development they hired a professional programmer. They had a choice to make after this.

• Build onto the janky code
• Fix up the old code
• Start from scratch

The first one would be the fastest and preserve the project, but it would get more and more strained and perform worse the further they went on. The second option would have taken ages longer... you never want to edit code and fix it up if you are someone brought into a project. Every programmer does their own thing and it can get really painful and time-intensive. Often ghost issues you wouldn't ever expect will poke up.

So they started from scratch. But they also had the idea that now there is a professional programmer, they could actually make this a real game. Nothing too extremely crazy though, something that captures the spirit of the old game but is quite a bit more of an experience. So they went with a KOTOR style game! Mechanically it's pretty simple despite being a very expansive type of game. Once they get the core architecture done with it, it'll basically just be art assets and writing! Programmer may be the one putting dialogue into the engine from that point on, but they'll be needed for assembling quests and such.

We should see the project really assembling once the core architecture is done and the hardest bits of the art team wrap up.

 

[Ruffy2010]

I can pass that along to them, I'm not sure how they are handling their dialogue in the project you sent. Is it a linear visual novel? Or does it have branching conversation paths? Also how do the community translations hold up? Are they pretty accurate and such I mean to ask.

But yeah nifty, I'll pass that a long to the LOK team in a minute or so and see what they think.
[/QUOTE]

The game has several branches. This is the game.

You must be registered to see the links

And this is what the dialogue files look like. The game also supports multiple languages.

 

[Valaska]

I can pass that along to them, I'm not sure how they are handling their dialogue in the project you sent. Is it a linear visual novel? Or does it have branching conversation paths? Also how do the community translations hold up? Are they pretty accurate and such I mean to ask.

But yeah nifty, I'll pass that a long to the LOK team in a minute or so and see what they think.

The game has several branches. This is the game.

You must be registered to see the links

And this is what the dialogue files look like. The game also supports multiple languages.
[/QUOTE]


I spoke with Kuja, and their programmer (Gizmo) said that he'll work on some tools so people can do this. So it's a go!

 

[Kassash]

Like the Original game, i like that to. Its not have fight or any other system in still yet, but i think there are great possibilities.

 

[Joyvankek]

But the thing is you are separating NSFW RPG's and normal RPG's. I don't know why... as the two take the same work and methods to be honest haha. Just one has way more fun cutscenes.

My separation is caused by "weight" put on NSFW content in other words what is the main focus. For example Adult themed RPG I would love to have would be something like Tyranny or Planescape. So game with good story, mechanics and generally "harder"/adult focused themes and concepts. That also included sex, romance and so on as a part of it, not the core of it. I don't deny the amount of work that needs to be put in pure NSFW RPG and more "mainstream" RPGs, nor was it my point.

Crowd Funding isn't a scam either, if a project languishes and doesn't put out updates it will naturally drop funding etc. It's more than a lot of crowd funding games go outside of their scope and keep expanding, making it impossible to actually deliver their content. Like that SHroud of the Avatar game for instance.

I'm glad that that there are successful crowd founding projects, and if someone want's to partake in them, more power to them. But from the legal stand point, people you send your money to, don't owe you anything other than "some kind of product" nor are legally responsible for their failures. As oppose to investing in something, or being a stockholder. It's simply something I wouldn't ever be on board with. Patreon(though it went to shit lately) and other such sites, at least are more honest of what they are. You support/donate money to your favorite content creator/author/whatever, sometimes with some perks sometimes without anything in return.(exclusively for paying supporters) Without all this crap of buying promises.

Hah... I've actually been an auxiliary in a police force when I was on my practical placement. I was shot at, stabbed, I've been stabbed before that... also shot at before that lol. Reserves are not safe places. And to be honest when I see people just mercilessly shit on my project (PFF) it hurts pretty darn bad. Like, yes in the grand scheme it might seem silly, but this is something you've put a part of yourself into, yeah? It can be hard to put it into words how it makes you feel until you are in that situation I guess.

I get it, if you work on something you are getting attached to it in some form, especially if it's project of passion. Also cheers for getting out there and putting your life in risk for the sake of others!
Also I picked up PFF thanks to this thread, nice work, and good job on characters and combat. I actually enjoy it and don't feel the need to just skip. Also naga waifu 5/5.

But yeah I think they did something pretty great in the LOK sphere, too. Most games have just rehashed the playshapes models and ran into the same pitfalls. It's pretty darn cool you can set that all aside and still go "hey, you did gud. I hope you do gud in the future, too." A lot of people wouldn't be able to do that tbh. I am excited to see the eventual result too

I'm going with the good ol' "Expect the worst, hope for the best" kind of logic. I guess I'm somewhat cynical as of late, but thankfully still able to put away my pitchfork and have some patience.
As they say in my favorite universe "Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment".