3.60 star(s) 33 Votes

Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
Game Developer
Aug 5, 2017
670
982
While I would love to have adult themed(Not just by porn, but themes, topics and problems) RPG game, I doubt there is any chance for that in the near future. Nevertheless if you are developer on something like patreon or other crowd scam... I mean founding platform, then at least by formality you are suppose to listen to the ones who pay for your work.(Though the working of that site are a joke, and in reality people pay for promise of product, not for product itself.) Your personal aspirations and desires can stay in realm of hobby projects. Unless you will find investor/group of investors, who would found the thing you actually want to made or you will be able to found it on your own.

I still wish you luck, I enjoy what you guys made so far, and will follow the project.(Not these strange dramas, you seems to be involved in.)



It seems like something fans of the Witcher saga had to endure with archdick Sapkowski.(Author of the Witcher books)
You may respect someone as an author/dev, while calling him out, out of his work, for how he act as a human.
Insulting your potential clients is never wise business practice.



Really? Mean comments on the web hurt their feeling and sanity? God damn it, you guys probably have easy lives if these are the problems that are driving you insane.
Howdy there.

So, several adult RPG's are being made and a few have actually released in the form of Last Soverign, P&C, Rance, etc. It happens quite often especially in eastern markets, and the market is there for the west too. Games like KOTOR are not particularly mechanically complex. After the core architecture is finished, it's all art assets and writing with programming a few things like the quests and such or putting dialogue into the game. This can be sped up with dialogue node editors.

But the thing is you are separating NSFW RPG's and normal RPG's. I don't know why... as the two take the same work and methods to be honest haha. Just one has way more fun cutscenes. Crowd Funding isn't a scam either, if a project languishes and doesn't put out updates it will naturally drop funding etc. It's more than a lot of crowd funding games go outside of their scope and keep expanding, making it impossible to actually deliver their content. Like that SHroud of the Avatar game for instance.

But there are plenty of projects that maintain their scope and deliver a great product. Shadow Run, Path of Exile, Battletech, Wasteland 2, Sunless Sea, Sunsless Skies, Blasphemous, The Last Soverign... the list goes on and on. Plenty of great RPG's have released via crowdfunding, and plenty more will. I get it, we've all been burned on a project or two. We've all seen the massive crowdfunding failures like Star Citizen, Mighty No.9, etc. The fans of LOK Rebirth also... generally are receptive to the changes. The old game was reaching its limits and they had to move on. They hired a professional programmer, and it would have been as much work to re-factor the old game and clean up it's programming.

But yeah I think they did something pretty great in the LOK sphere, too. Most games have just rehashed the playshapes models and ran into the same pitfalls. It's pretty darn cool you can set that all aside and still go "hey, you did gud. I hope you do gud in the future, too." A lot of people wouldn't be able to do that tbh. I am excited to see the eventual result too.



Hah... I've actually been an auxiliary in a police force when I was on my practical placement. I was shot at, stabbed, I've been stabbed before that... also shot at before that lol. Reserves are not safe places. And to be honest when I see people just mercilessly shit on my project (PFF) it hurts pretty darn bad. Like, yes in the grand scheme it might seem silly, but this is something you've put a part of yourself into, yeah? It can be hard to put it into words how it makes you feel until you are in that situation I guess.

I totally get what you mean haha, but still, it's a difficult thing to get through for the majority of people. I hope we can all get to a situation where everyone is at least comfortable with the state of things. Take it easy, Joyvankek.
 

Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
Game Developer
Aug 5, 2017
670
982
Will you pay the man 10k a month? lol
lol again, it was a bit out of turn but it was in frustration. Though you do bring up a good point, animators in other industry for as much work as LOK are doing right now would be getting paid 4-6k USD a month. Which is about what the entire team is making each month now. But that's kind off-topic, just numbers.

But yeah that was an unreasonable demand to make and all, and was an improper way to address criticism. But as I said earlier, he was frustrated and lashed out.
 

Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
Game Developer
Aug 5, 2017
670
982
Unity, my good man!


Can you make it so that you can easily translate the game into several languages? Like in this game, https://f95zone.to/threads/goons-raid-her-v0-4-3-the-architect.25782/ where the dialog file is in the folder, in case someone wants to translate it?
[/QUOTE]

I can pass that along to them, I'm not sure how they are handling their dialogue in the project you sent. Is it a linear visual novel? Or does it have branching conversation paths? Also how do the community translations hold up? Are they pretty accurate and such I mean to ask.

But yeah nifty, I'll pass that a long to the LOK team in a minute or so and see what they think.
 

SicilyAB

New Member
Feb 16, 2019
5
5
I still don't understand why you decided to scrap the project and start from scratch. Was the project that broken at it's core? How long did the original project take with one person? It seems that adding new crew was too overzealous in your approach because you haven't even gotten close to the original after 4 months.
 
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lucifersbliss

Newbie
Mar 22, 2018
30
57
... I feel like bashing everyones heads together.

Everyone on all sides are making good points. Problem is, one side, the critics, are bieng over zealous. They're coming up with all kinds of crap that while it makes sense in theory, in practice it often isn't so simple. For example, working on a project for a long time, motivation dips and climbs. Yet the team has not been spending much time relatively speaking to the type of game it is and the progress they've made (or would have, i'll touch on this) and it has yet to enter a realm that is just completely unreasonable.

What ticked me off however was the change in model and genre. Moving from a 2D experience to a somewhat RPG or 2.5D experience, while also changing the model, almost completely reset all that progress to zero.

Everyone is spending a lot of time beating around the bush but this should be the core subject.

Malice and the Machine was one that did the same. It saw promise and progress, slow as it was. Which already started ticking everybody off, but then they decided to scrap all that and completely redo the engine. This feels very similar to that, check over there and notice how the project is marked as abandoned now. The chances of them ever finishing that game are slim to none.

This is more likely to do with a lack of ambition and motivation by the developers. Further seen by how they're now working on a much easier to develop game.

In this situation it seems to be doing the opposite.

Idk if they've explained the why behind this change, but i doubt there's a good reason. The previous model was brilliant, the art was billiant, and the animation, though slow paced, made me wonder what would happen for the more hardcore. Especially the "slave" route.

Now it feels like a completely different project.

In the end i STILL remain silent because in the end i want to wait until it is at least passed the point of no return, a done deal, and i can enjoy what the game becomes from that point on.

You see people enjoying games like succulance and cursed armor, games that dump massive amounts of content by the similar sized dev teams all year around. Both of which still maintaining that same pace in their sequals.

But expecting other developer teams to maintain that same pace is also not fair. But you have to understand that it gives you perspective. So making excuses as to why its taking longer becomes very unconvincing.

Its a psychological clusterfuck but both sides annoy me in this situation.

This project has not yet crossed the line like malice and the machine.
But this project is also showing very similar traits to the team that worked on malice in the machine.

If i was the devs, i'd table the new stuff and resume work on the original, get that done, then call the new work a sequal and resume work on that then. Just seems really simple tbh, a logical choice, one of common sense, and everyone is happy that way. So long as the project maintains its steady pace of course.

A reset to zero is bound to piss people off. Even if mechanically, it isn't. Perception is key.
 

Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
Game Developer
Aug 5, 2017
670
982
I still don't understand why you decided to scrap the project and start from scratch. Was the project that broken at it's core? How long did the original project take with one person? It seems that adding new crew was too overzealous in your approach because you haven't even gotten close to the original after 4 months.
Ey there mate! I answered that one for the LOK team above but I get my posts were long haha. So I'll give a direct response to you.

Originally they were doing the game with more amateur programmers. The game itself was starting to suffer from slowdowns and hitches, they'd pushed their code base as far as it could go. They had more mechanics to go and well over a dozen characters to do at least. To speed up development they hired a professional programmer. They had a choice to make after this.

  • Build onto the janky code
  • Fix up the old code
  • Start from scratch
The first one would be the fastest and preserve the project, but it would get more and more strained and perform worse the further they went on. The second option would have taken ages longer... you never want to edit code and fix it up if you are someone brought into a project. Every programmer does their own thing and it can get really painful and time-intensive. Often ghost issues you wouldn't ever expect will poke up.

So they started from scratch. But they also had the idea that now there is a professional programmer, they could actually make this a real game. Nothing too extremely crazy though, something that captures the spirit of the old game but is quite a bit more of an experience. So they went with a KOTOR style game! Mechanically it's pretty simple despite being a very expansive type of game. Once they get the core architecture done with it, it'll basically just be art assets and writing! Programmer may be the one putting dialogue into the engine from that point on, but they'll be needed for assembling quests and such.

We should see the project really assembling once the core architecture is done and the hardest bits of the art team wrap up.
 

Ruffy2010

Member
Jul 9, 2017
410
186
I can pass that along to them, I'm not sure how they are handling their dialogue in the project you sent. Is it a linear visual novel? Or does it have branching conversation paths? Also how do the community translations hold up? Are they pretty accurate and such I mean to ask.

But yeah nifty, I'll pass that a long to the LOK team in a minute or so and see what they think.
[/QUOTE]

The game has several branches. This is the game. And this is what the dialogue files look like. The game also supports multiple languages.
 
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Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
Game Developer
Aug 5, 2017
670
982
I can pass that along to them, I'm not sure how they are handling their dialogue in the project you sent. Is it a linear visual novel? Or does it have branching conversation paths? Also how do the community translations hold up? Are they pretty accurate and such I mean to ask.

But yeah nifty, I'll pass that a long to the LOK team in a minute or so and see what they think.
The game has several branches. This is the game. And this is what the dialogue files look like. The game also supports multiple languages.
[/QUOTE]


I spoke with Kuja, and their programmer (Gizmo) said that he'll work on some tools so people can do this. So it's a go!
 

Kassash

New Member
Aug 31, 2018
1
1
Like the Original game, i like that to. Its not have fight or any other system in still yet, but i think there are great possibilities.
 
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Joyvankek

Member
Dec 9, 2019
164
269
But the thing is you are separating NSFW RPG's and normal RPG's. I don't know why... as the two take the same work and methods to be honest haha. Just one has way more fun cutscenes.
My separation is caused by "weight" put on NSFW content in other words what is the main focus. For example Adult themed RPG I would love to have would be something like Tyranny or Planescape. So game with good story, mechanics and generally "harder"/adult focused themes and concepts. That also included sex, romance and so on as a part of it, not the core of it. I don't deny the amount of work that needs to be put in pure NSFW RPG and more "mainstream" RPGs, nor was it my point.

Crowd Funding isn't a scam either, if a project languishes and doesn't put out updates it will naturally drop funding etc. It's more than a lot of crowd funding games go outside of their scope and keep expanding, making it impossible to actually deliver their content. Like that SHroud of the Avatar game for instance.
I'm glad that that there are successful crowd founding projects, and if someone want's to partake in them, more power to them. But from the legal stand point, people you send your money to, don't owe you anything other than "some kind of product" nor are legally responsible for their failures. As oppose to investing in something, or being a stockholder. It's simply something I wouldn't ever be on board with. Patreon(though it went to shit lately) and other such sites, at least are more honest of what they are. You support/donate money to your favorite content creator/author/whatever, sometimes with some perks sometimes without anything in return.(exclusively for paying supporters) Without all this crap of buying promises.

Hah... I've actually been an auxiliary in a police force when I was on my practical placement. I was shot at, stabbed, I've been stabbed before that... also shot at before that lol. Reserves are not safe places. And to be honest when I see people just mercilessly shit on my project (PFF) it hurts pretty darn bad. Like, yes in the grand scheme it might seem silly, but this is something you've put a part of yourself into, yeah? It can be hard to put it into words how it makes you feel until you are in that situation I guess.
I get it, if you work on something you are getting attached to it in some form, especially if it's project of passion. Also cheers for getting out there and putting your life in risk for the sake of others!
Also I picked up PFF thanks to this thread, nice work, and good job on characters and combat. I actually enjoy it and don't feel the need to just skip. Also naga waifu 5/5.

But yeah I think they did something pretty great in the LOK sphere, too. Most games have just rehashed the playshapes models and ran into the same pitfalls. It's pretty darn cool you can set that all aside and still go "hey, you did gud. I hope you do gud in the future, too." A lot of people wouldn't be able to do that tbh. I am excited to see the eventual result too
I'm going with the good ol' "Expect the worst, hope for the best" kind of logic. I guess I'm somewhat cynical as of late, but thankfully still able to put away my pitchfork and have some patience. :ROFLMAO:
As they say in my favorite universe "Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment".
 
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Ion.TemUS

Active Member
Jun 8, 2017
949
984
I've stated this before, but I think there is just a couple of core issues currently with the project that can not be resolved until a working demo is here and the development process has started again with regular updates and such.

The main issue - and probably the point where some people dropped off patreon and started being unhappy and occasionally dropped in here and in similar places to complain - started when updates became less and less regular, the team was having troubles (as people pointed out) with the systems and programming they build the game on. Then one of the main devs was having a lot of personal issues. You know, the whole affair with family drama, the Phillipines stuff. I don't want to bring that up again cause its not the point I want to make. The point I want to make is people didn't get a lot of content during that phase and trust in the developers reliability was destroyed.

After that whole thing was over and the new project was announced some people took issue with the fact that they invested time and money into a project that was now being re-rolled from the ground up. A good decision long-term probably. But in combination with broken trust and a lack of transparency on the goings on in game development - which is an unfortunate norm throughout all parts of the industry, big or small - this lead to a lot more people being unsatisfied and unsure about the project.

The third pillar of the problem is probably - connected to the first two - peoples reaction to the new design, as well as the new plans for gameplay and mechanics. A grand endeavour that promises a lot of features and content. Its no wonder people are worried then in that regard, how regular and susbstantial the updates will be in the future - especially when it comes to h-game content. We all know resources aren't infinite. So it is of course not too far off to assume (even if that assumption is ultimately WRONG!) that the more you do to include new mechanics, mini-games and AA/AAA RPG elements into a project such as this, the less resources (time and money) you have to develop the erotic parts of the game. Which of course is the main reason some people are interested in the project (even if a good deal of us defintiely love and have a passion for games in general).

Which is where we arrive at present day now. A state where the effects of these problems still persist, not really mitigated by the fact that while your writing team and art team seem to be making good progess (see the Trello), the work that requires arguably the most time of all of development - the animation - seems to be far behind (for reasons that were explained by Atoll to be fair), which is of course after such a rocky development not really inspiring people to expect reliability and build trust.

Let me just say I understand the developer side of things just as much as the consumer side of things. Im gonna be quite honest, and this is not meant to attack anyone on the development team in any way. But for me personally, I am done caring about this project. This doesn't come from a place of hate or spite, Im not angry. What I mean with "done caring" is just that Im not really that interested at the moment and don't check the progress of this project as frequently anymore. Its not really an emotional response, more a lack thereof. I will still be interested to see what the demo will bring in however many months you guys release it and I wish you the best luck with the project, Im just saying that - at the current moment - I have more important priorities in my life than to spend too much time keeping up-to-date with this game.
 
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Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
Game Developer
Aug 5, 2017
670
982
Joyvankek

Ohh fair, fair. Yeah, LOK will be going more KOTOR in content and there is definitely still going to be an immensely healthy heaping on NSFW content. They are definitely going to go for exactly what you said. Good story, mechanics, romance and/or just hardcore fucking. It'll be good stuff! I feel there are a few projects like this coming out. Check out PFF too, we're trying the same thing. But yeah sorry I just misunderstood.

And I get what you mean, there's a lot of games that have taken advantage of us and have burned us. I feel I got burned from Star Citizen and MechWarrior Online. But in general, I've recieved good products, BattleTech, ShadowRun, ShadowRun again... Shadowrun a third time haha, and the battletech table top etc. The major thing is that the majority of people have one shot at crowdfunded projects and if you want to make a studio that creates more, you need to have the backing. The Makers of MWO, for instance, tries a game called Transverse (no, it wasn't trans porn) but since MWO flopped so fucking hard they literally failed their funding two times on two different platforms haha. In general, I find it safe to crowdfund as long as you go in objectively. Which is why I get it's hard for some people to continue supporting the LOK Team, since you can't see anything concrete right now. I'll say with a good measure of confidence they're going to deliver something great.


Oh wow! Thanks so much for the support mate! Everybit means a ton, and I really love writing for Hiho haha. She has a lot more coming too. It's a little off topic but yeah there's a ton that I plan with her. Hiho and Scylla are going to be the two companions you can influence the most through the game, and they are sort of starting at opposite ends of the spectrum. Hiho being naive and idealistic, Scylla being hardened and with a dower look on life. You'll be able to be either a positive influence, or a fatally negative one on either one throughout the story.

I'm going with the good ol' "Expect the worst, hope for the best" kind of logic. I guess I'm somewhat cynical as of late, but thankfully still able to put away my pitchfork and have some patience. :ROFLMAO:
As they say in my favorite universe "Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment".
That's great though, and the LOK Team does appreciate your interest! That you are passionate about the project means they were really on the right track before. They're taking that momentum and trying to make something bigger and better yet. And to quite my favourite universe. No Guts, No Galaxy. ;)

John.Terminus

I've stated this before, but I think there is just a couple of core issues currently with the project that can not be resolved until a working demo is here and the development process has started again with regular updates and such.
Exactly right my dude! Unfortunately, all we can ask for the fans and critics alike is to keep it civil here so that we can have an open dialogue. So I can bring you the devs ideas and plans going forward, and that I can take the constructive and critical ideas and relay them back to the LOK Team. You all are a huge wellspring of information on what worked in the past and what may not work in the future.

The programming is going pretty fast now, but yeah the progress on the project before was really slowing down with how taxed the codebase was getting. Once they deliver the first demo I'll see if they can maybe get a volunteer to make sure there is at least news and updates. LOK has been doing pretty good with that so far, but the lack of a demo makes that seem sort of hollow to some. Thank you for the understanding of the issues the team has felt... I don't know how I would take it if someone in TDD went down that dark path, you get to be close friends when working on projects like this. Well... some teams. Some teams end up hating each other heh. But I think LOK's Team has reliability, but the lack of hands-on time for patrons and others alike is the major issue right now.

And I definitely get feeling a bit dejected at the project being restarted. I really did love the CG art direction they were taking Krystal, that stuff was... pretty gosh damn hot. But they're still listening to feedback and wants/wishes of the community, even in relation to the model. But they just cannot be remodelling or touching the sprites up right now, as you said before, the demo needs to get in people's hands. They are trying to be transparent here, but unfortunately, they are in the patron news updates. I'll poke them about possibly releasing monthly public updates on a set date. Would that be aight for you?

The third pillar of the problem is probably - connected to the first two - peoples reaction to the new design, as well as the new plans for gameplay and mechanics. A grand endeavour that promises a lot of features and content. Its no wonder people are worried then in that regard, how regular and susbstantial the updates will be in the future - especially when it comes to h-game content. We all know resources aren't infinite. So it is of course not too far off to assume (even if that assumption is ultimately WRONG!) that the more you do to include new mechanics, mini-games and AA/AAA RPG elements into a project such as this, the less resources (time and money) you have to develop the erotic parts of the game. Which of course is the main reason some people are interested in the project (even if a good deal of us defintiely love and have a passion for games in general).
This is a place I was vocal about on Patreon comments as well. I had a lot of issues about the angle of the nose and the muzzle, the lack of butt, and small-ish boobies and generally, she was too thin. The LOK team did really react to that, they asked people for direct input. I was one of the people criticizing the new Krystal design and I am pretty damn happy with where she is now. You'll be able to dye her a darker colour and the body is FANTASTIC now, it's a 100% improvement in every way now. But I personally still struggle with the head at SOME angles. I think head-on when the nose angles up, makes the face really pointed.
Still, it's a huge improvement because the original model just had a profile. If you look at the original model and the current, the head by the profile is still damn great. Just a little different. We might see them re-touch the head in the future and even give a "classic" appearance was one of the things the devs were spitballing in discord when I spoke with them.- But that would be WELL after they get a vertical slice-like experience prepared.

But on grand endeavour... they're recreating a KOTOR like experience and even though that is expansive and pretty amazing... mechanically it's pretty simple! They've hired an industry professional programmer, something along these lines is going to be a cakewalk haha. Think of it along the lines of ShadowRun in terms of a AA experience. That team was able to make something pretty simple but very solid. They even spent a shit ton of time making map editors etc, and the LOK team is going for a much more efficient point A to Z development cycle. I'll suggest they define their scope in a public article and present it to you guys when that gets finished. Might be a bit, they are hard at work atm.

Which is where we arrive at present day now. A state where the effects of these problems still persist, not really mitigated by the fact that while your writing team and art team seem to be making good progess (see the Trello), the work that requires arguably the most time of all of development - the animation - seems to be far behind (for reasons that were explained by Atoll to be fair), which is of course after such a rocky development not really inspiring people to expect reliability and build trust.
For sure, the animation will be the biggest thing. Rigging takes a bit of time, so when they get more universal rigs that they can simply scale they can apply that to sprites easier in the future and as ATroll already said, there are some issues that hung them up for a bit. But these hang-ups will happen even on "trustworthy" teams. CDPR, Harebrained Schemes, Platinum, all have had a set back that holds development back for awhile. It's just the nature of the business, unfortunately. One of the AA Indie CRPG's I ghostwrote on actually brought me on board because their lead writer was extremely ill for a while... development stopped for almost 2 months and they were thinking they were going to miss their kickstarter release date because of it. They brought me on to ghostwrite until their lead could come back. That kind of thing happens... they have multiple very successful projects released too!

But yeah no one can expect to force you to care about the project, and it's unfortunate you've fallen out of that trust with LOK Team and Rebirth. None of the team wants to see people disappointed in something they were excited for... and that's a hard pill to swallow. Hopefully, in the future the team will be able to regain your interest and get you excited for a more full and complete project that carries on the spirit of what we were all so excited about before the restart!

Ya'gotta tend to your garden first. Priorities are important in life haha. Hope to see you back when the team delivers the demo and I am looking forward to touching base with you on behalf of the team then! Or maybe we can start rotating actual devs in here when the crunch-time ends. Take care Mr. Terminus.
 
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Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
Game Developer
Aug 5, 2017
670
982
News from the LOK Team!

Some pretty interesting news just announced! The LOK team has hired a third animator to speed up the speed of animation. I've seen their work and it is fan freakin' tastic. Hopefully, the team will have something I can deliver to you so you all can see the new animators work coming up!

Thank you all for your interest, and especially for your patience. The team is looking forward to paying you all back for this with a project that'll kick ass!
 

morel

Newbie
May 2, 2018
96
9
2 questions , how do I get rip suit ? Its red dialogue and nothing happens
And how do I get scene with eri its red again and nothing happens
Tnx
 

Valaska

[PFF: Avarice Dev]
Game Developer
Aug 5, 2017
670
982
2 questions , how do I get rip suit ? Its red dialogue and nothing happens
And how do I get scene with eri its red again and nothing happens
Tnx
It's been a while... but you need to get her lust up to a certain amount before you can rip the suit. It's part of a whole series of her altering the suit. You need to go bathe in the waterfall to start it off if I remember correctly. As for Eri's scene, you need to get more and more obedience skill. Best way is Kantir, the armour dude.
 
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