VN Ren'Py Lesson in Loyalty [Ch.4] [Lesson in Loyalty]

[LIONREX]

Looks very good, waiting for more

 

[Miss Kobayashi's]

The gameplay itself looks very good, the plot is interesting, the characters are beautifully made and the world around is cool. Good luck with the game

 

[Thedude715]

I cant be the only one that thought the woman in the first pic had "elf ears" at first glance right?

 

[Saint Blackmoor]

A complete planned tags list will never and should never be mandatory.

Exactly. Also, any change would be seen as the devs lying or milking or whatever. There is just no making everyone happy.
A mandatory tag list was never a plan F95 had, I'm sure. But it's good to talk about things like this to find all the good and bad points.

Example: Some frenzied tag police members want mandatory planned tags, But they haven't thought about the repercussions that would create. These single-minded "I want my way" members are constantly creating Kaos here.

 

[Before I Forget]

She's MARRIED!!!

 

[Before I Forget]

Its a balance issue. You're right that a planned and more clearly outlined game can attract more support because they get a better feel for what they are getting into. However, it also creatively limits the developer with a predetermined path they are expected to follow for possibly years ahead.
So it comes down to a balance where dev should give as many details as possible about the future of the project without giving so much that it limits their creative workflow.



Exactly! Couldn't have said it better myself. People expecting a "planned tags" are out of touch with reality and have no idea what it takes to create a game

A complete planned tags list will never and should never be mandatory. Expecting a creator to know every single sex scene and every single tag/kink that will ever be in the game from day 1. That is like expecting a kindergartener to know exactly what they wanna be when they grow up, and then get mad at them because they didn't become exactly what they said they would. Most people who think like this can't look past their own nose for even a second to realize how unreasonable such an expectation is.

Yeah... I strongly disagree with lol.

It's fine to let Devs tell there stories, I'm all for that but players/supporters SHOULD NEVER not know what they're getting themselves into.

 

[Allan Wolf]

So he should post the tags that he doesn't plan on at all lol

I argue that it should never be mandatory, however I think that a game without planned tags gives me the impression that the developer doesn't know which direction to take or what type of user he wants to target.

 

[Nerro]

Yeah... I strongly disagree with lol.

It's fine to let Devs tell there stories, I'm all for that but players/supporters SHOULD NEVER not know what they're getting themselves into.

When you support a dev, you support their on-going workflow. You are not buying a complete product that is already finished that you can check its content before you buy. That isn’t how it works or how game development works. Most devs can’t tell you all planned tags ahead of time because most of the time, THEY DON’T KNOW!

Being a supporter carries inherent risk that you might not enjoy the work as much as you had hoped in the end, hell, even the dev might not enjoy how his own work turned out in the end. Saying supporter should never not know what they are getting into is impossible and make no sense. Don’t support if you cant deal with the risk, and only buy complete works because there is no “zero risk” investment when you support an on-going project.

 

[datingmysdaughter]

Added to my list looks promising

 

[THE KILLER 13]

Since a game does not initially present the planned tags, we will wait for the developers to finish their projects to decide whether or not we will support them according to the tags we prefer.

 

[CoffeeSaint]

You are not buying a complete product that is already finished that you can check its content before you buy

a solid point, Nerro.
most of these games are WIP; actually: the Devs themselves are WIPs, as they learn and evolve as they develop.
to expect a fully outlined game — especially on its early stages of development — can only lead into frustration.

on the other hand, I believe Devs should give a generous and general glimpse where s/he is heading with her/his VN/Game. then: if the player feels s/he likes it and believes the project deserves a personal investment, that's up to her/him.

Also, any change would be seen as the devs lying or milking or whatever.

agreed, brother; that's one of the consequences of frustration.

cheers, all.

 

[don't censor it]

What are the scheduled tags?
ntr, harem, incest?

Or will I have to wait for the game to finish to find out

 

[AL.d]

At least this time we are not playing as the little gobbo in first pic. That's something.

Also dev might want to copy a less known smutty manhwa for the inevitable next project.

 

[TKdropemoff]

I don't fully agree with that. You're forcing the dev to lock down the complete story. From my work here, I know many devs don't have the full story written. They have outlines, possible branching paths, etc... They are allowed that. It's their game.

If a planned tag list were mandatory (they never will be), we would see fewer games here. And probably more cookie-cutter stories.

Let's be real here: This whole planned tag issue arose from members who are too weak-minded to even contemplate trying something because they fear their fragile egos won't be able to handle it. This also goes for the NTR issue; those weak-minded members can't even endure a fictional character hurting that member's feelings. What that means is those members have not experienced real life enough to build up their self-esteem to the point of understanding fantasy is nowhere near the same as real life.
(Facepalms here are from those members; thanks for letting us know who you are)

xXwankerXx I guess you're my soapbox on this point. I hope I wasn't too heavy to carry.

This is a bunch of nonsense… no offense.
Dude, planned tags help people not wasting their time on something.
Hell, they might spend money on as well in the form of support.

It's called SELLING YOUR PRODUCT and being transparent about it.
Yes, it is not mandatory for a dev to put any of that, but expect people to be wary
and avoid investing time in your game when you're not laying out anything when it comes to CONTENT
people will, or not, be interested in. Lots of issues would be avoided if it was more TRANSPARENCY in the first place.
Only a fool would spend money on something they have no idea of what they are getting into. Also, they limit their support they could have, not putting anything on the table.

EDIT: Also a dev not listing their planned tags = NOT HAVING A DIRECTION = RED FLAG.
Having future tags got nothing to do with creativity or railroading your story… And looking at this dev's other games
which 2 are abandoned speaks volumes… What you are saying is a recipe for why there are so many abandoned games here in the first place. A dev should at least have an idea and footprint of the direction their story is going in…

And you wonder why some games be DOA. (DEAD ON ARRIVAL)

 

[AlBetGam]

 

[mrwowaccount]

Very good graphics. promising game! subscribed!

 

[Havenless_]

Let's be real here: This whole planned tag issue arose from members who are too weak-minded to even contemplate trying something because they fear their fragile egos won't be able to handle it. This also goes for the NTR issue; those weak-minded members can't even endure a fictional character hurting that member's feelings. What that means is those members have not experienced real life enough to build up their self-esteem to the point of understanding fantasy is nowhere near the same as real life.

I offer my sincerest apologies for being a human being with feelings and emotions. I mean, it's ridiculous to think that someone would immerse themselves and empathize with characters that don't exist and feel part of the story they're playing, right?
Or are you telling me that I am not the Dragonborn destined to take down Alduin and save all of Skyrim? That's impossible.

By the same token, it's just as ridiculous to override and make others' emotions less so simply because according to some people, "they haven't experienced real life enough" because clearly we all enjoy the same opportunities in life, right?

Sigh. Look, I agree that there are a lot of comments out there that are just immature and meaningless complaints. If you want to mock and make jokes about those people, go ahead. I myself having a tremendous dislike of NTR gives me cringe going into game threads and having to read some of the comments.

What bothers me quite a bit is when those comments immediately come up that people can't stand pixel characters hurting their feelings. Everyone is a completely different world, with different life experiences as to lock it all up in the same "immature and weak minded" bubble.

What should be discussed here is that the developers currently have 3 games in development. All 3, it seems, being ambitious projects. How many developers have finished 3 games whose development is going on at the same time?

 

[Before I Forget]

When you support a dev, you support their on-going workflow. You are not buying a complete product that is already finished that you can check its content before you buy. That isn’t how it works or how game development works. Most devs can’t tell you all planned tags ahead of time because most of the time, THEY DON’T KNOW!

Being a supporter carries inherent risk that you might not enjoy the work as much as you had hoped in the end, hell, even the dev might not enjoy how his own work turned out in the end. Saying supporter should never not know what they are getting into is impossible and make no sense. Don’t support if you cant deal with the risk, and only buy complete works because there is no “zero risk” investment when you support an on-going project.

Is that a misstatement because it doesn't make sense? If you mean SHOULD NEVER, could you explain your reasoning?

Like Nerro said, it's a risk to support a game.

You guys say this and then will come back when games are abandoned and go "I wonder why this game didn't get support?" Well, this is one of the reasons why. Not every causal passing through is going to be day one fans, you'd be naive to think that. In this industry there new visual novels being cranked out what seem to be every week and you're trying to tell me that people should just throw money at Devs on good faith?

Of course it's a risk, nothing in this industry is concrete. What I'm saying is most of the time players are going to flock and fap to what they can get off on. So not being transparent about what's in stored will most of the time do you, the Dev a disservice.

And Nerro please stop comparing this to an actual video game. Last I checked when I bought God of War: Ragnarök it was completed not in it's infancy stage.

Having future tags doesn't mean you have to give away your story, it never meant that.

 

[DeUglyOne]

How do we actually know they're from the same guy?

2nd post:
Requested by, Vilkas Creative
Your rendering continues to improve significantly.

 

[Husmi]

I don't fully agree with that. You're forcing the dev to lock down the complete story. From my work here, I know many devs don't have the full story written. They have outlines, possible branching paths, etc... They are allowed that. It's their game.

If a planned tag list were mandatory (they never will be), we would see fewer games here. And probably more cookie-cutter stories.

Let's be real here: This whole planned tag issue arose from members who are too weak-minded to even contemplate trying something because they fear their fragile egos won't be able to handle it. This also goes for the NTR issue; those weak-minded members can't even endure a fictional character hurting that member's feelings. What that means is those members have not experienced real life enough to build up their self-esteem to the point of understanding fantasy is nowhere near the same as real life.
(Facepalms here are from those members; thanks for letting us know who you are)

xXwankerXx I guess you're my soapbox on this point. I hope I wasn't too heavy to carry.

I have to agree with a mandatory "planned" tag list, or at least something like "tags that will never be included", so people can at least know which games they might not be interested in, appart fro mthat, in my opinion, a dev that doesn't know at least the tags that the game will include, just tells me that he doesn't have anything planned, has no objective for the game, and doesn't know what will happen with the game, which screams abandoned game if you ask me.

As for your view on "weak-minded" people, I suppose I'm weak-minded for not having the same fetishes as you, or as everyone else, I don't care if a game has, for example, femdom, but I don't like it, so if in the taglist it says there is femdom in the game, and I don't know if it's avoidable, why would I play a porn game, about a fetish that I don't like, or in a case of a game like this, that might have some NTR, if someone doesn't like that fetish, why would they lose the time to follow it until the dev decides to add it or not, that's why up to a point, I agree to have mandatory planned tags, there is no need to have them planned and writed on stone, but as a dev, knowing what you want to include in the game, and have at least an almost complete idea of what the full game is going to be, should be a requirement, you may change it down the line, but some lines should be followed, if not planned properly, there is no way something as long as making a game is not going to end up going wrong, and the amount of abandoned games in this website, shows that perfectly well.

Appart from all that, knowing that this dev has 2 abandoned games, 1 of them being remade, and now this one, can't really say I trust the dev to go anywhere with this one either...