Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.40.0] [Selebus]

[Black Raven]

What are you all talking about ? I can see the old CP on Gumroad just fine.

 

[DrFree]

The only cringe thing about this situation is how people here are going to great lengths to screw themselves.

So, Sel, the guy that has everything to lose and nothing to win, right?
Again, Sel pirated shit too. You surely do, too, if you're here I can be certain of this.
And you say "the usual crowd having fun with the game early than they should and giggling about it."
What's the problem with the former? Of course they enjoy playing the game they like.
Again, like what Sel and anyone did here.
About the giggling, it's the internet, ffs, they giggle because they got to do what they always did, pirate games ona pirate site that Sel knowingly used and pomoted his game on.

Escalate things, and the enemy reciprocates. "DRM", Gumroad, and so, with Sel being on the losing side if it continues.

Cause & Effect~ ♪

 

[worthlesspeon]

Yeah, the Gumroad takedown seems to be saying otherwise to several of their arguments. If it was just boredom, the Gumroad would still be active because nobody would have acted against any official channel of distribution for the game or related contents. Even if Sel did something bad, doing something bad back, especially that which goes after his income, is Sel level at best. Regardless of what goes on because of the Discord side of this spat, two wrongs never make a right.

I'm not sure what you think is so evil here. He's selling content on a website where said content is clearly against TOS. Someone makes a report and it gets taken down (that one wasn't actually me - I did report his patreon back in the day and have recently reported his shopify webspace). Instead of blaming the reporter, perhaps you should blame Selebus himself for selling the content at a venue that doesn't allow it.

Emotional investment -- I truly don't care if the game continues or not. But I will find it entertaining if Sel gets taken down with all of this.

You do realize they are extremely likely to consider these an act of war that is basically guaranteed to start yet another action against the thread. I won't be part of it, but there are many others I cannot say would do the same and I will do nothing to try and stop them, as if I could even hope to calm them. This supposed DRM move was only a taste at best, I just hope those involved never use their full capability.

"was only a taste at best". What are you 12? I suppose that would explain the interest you have in little girls.

Anything further he does with the DRM will be illegal in multiple continents. Jail-time illegal, not just a slap on the wrist. What he did already seems to be illegal in the EU.

 

[Dc345]

I dont know why the whole Otoha kissing Nikki ordeal is such a big deal? If Otoha did tell Rin and sensei about it I dont think they would care knowing Rin and Sensei sucked face before and I think either that whole situation leads to a impromptu four way or Otoha's and Rin's relationship straining even more since she kissed Sensei before her.

 

[ReegusLeroy]

Notice he never used intimacy in that sentence. Intimacy and sex are not inherently the same thing. You can attach all the caps you want, but I am going off of things he has said here. He is known to mess around and say things that aren't meant to be serious on Discord, something he didn't do that much here, so I cannot take what he is saying there seriously outside of announcements or delivery of subscriber perks.

Enabling skip unseen is an often overlooked feature inherent to Renpy, skipping the lust events was enabled by design choice, it is not a default capability like skip unseen. If he had not made them skippable, not only would the player have no option to, they would be forced to see the events if they continue playing. I actually did suggest disabling the inherent Renpy skip option entirely when the 'not paying attention' thing started coming up.

Notice how it was in direct response to someone asking clarification on intimacy and he says 'fucking them'. Notice he literally called it a hentai visual novel in the other caps. You're the one that brought up what Sel says and said developer's word is law for your argument, but when I bring up his words it's suddenly not meant to be taken serious and not law. You're just being obstinate

 

[Axismundi]

I dont know why the whole Otoha kissing Nikki ordeal is such a big deal? If Otoha did tell Rin and sensei about it I dont think they would care knowing Rin and Sensei sucked face before and I think either that whole situation leads to a impromptu four way or Otoha's and Rin's relationship straining even more since she kissed Sensei before her.

I don't think it'd be a big deal to sensei or Rin (they'd both probably be turned on by the idea), but it's a big deal to Otoha because it destroys the mental image she has of herself and the stance she takes against sensei. She obviously has feelings for Nike, but if anything were to happen, she'd be admitting that she's ok with that type of relationship, something she actively criticizes sensei for. But it also hurts her because while she really likes Rin, she probably loves Niki. Her heart sees Rin as a runner-up, not the main focus, and she knows this, which hurts Otoha because she's being dishonest to Rin.

It's a big deal to her because, to use a half-remembered quote from the game, "the person she thought she'd be and the person she's turning into aren't the same."

 

[ElukiaTV]

Well, we arent sure yet if she only sees Rin has the "runner-up" i think we need to hear more from Otoha's own mind before understanding what's exactly going on. But yeah. This is clearly not who she believed she was, and is gonna bring some interesting stuff.

 

[derekthered56]

I dont know why the whole Otoha kissing Nikki ordeal is such a big deal? If Otoha did tell Rin and sensei about it I dont think they would care knowing Rin and Sensei sucked face before and I think either that whole situation leads to a impromptu four way or Otoha's and Rin's relationship straining even more since she kissed Sensei before her.

IIRC Rin kissed Sensei before Rin and Otoha became "official", so it might not feel exactly the same. Rin also said that the only thing she'd really get mad about is Otoha cheating on her, so at the very least Otoha has reason to think Rin would be upset.
It's probably still defusable, but since Otoha is instead keeping it a secret Rin will inevitably learn about it in the worst possible way.

 

[graz150]

If Daisy really is Ayane's daughter, that would mean that the children born during the loop are special beings (age/power)...
So, I was thinking that perhaps, all the mayas we have seen during happy events could be children born from Maya during past loops, and if Maya knows what became of them, this could explain her disdain of children... Maybe?

 

[barglenarglezous]

If Daisy really is Ayane's daughter, that would mean that the children born during the loop are special beings (age/power)...
So, I was thinking that perhaps, all the mayas we have seen during happy events could be children born from Maya during past loops, and if Maya knows what became of them, this could explain her disdain of children... Maybe?

The flashback in Baby Finches happens prior to the time loop, and she already hates the idea of kids at that point, so probably not.

Maya never talks about her parents, and her best friends don't know anything about them. That's suspicious.

My theory is that Maya is actually one of the various Maya's whose abandoned her post to live near the man she fell in love with. This explains why she has no apparent origin, no parents, and just kind of appears in Akira's life at some point.

If that's not making sense, I mean a narrative similar to Nicholas Cage's character in City of Angels, where he, as an angel, falls for a human woman and falls from Heaven to live a mortal life so he can be with her.

This would also explain why in so many happy scenes, we see a Maya in some form of torture -- she's being punished.

 

[vehemental]

I've been thinking about how to respond and during that time you seem to have done nothing but damage your own arguments.

Firstly, you can leave that cheap "haha im doing this for fun! im not emotionally invested! I'm just killing my boredom!" excuse at the door, I'm certainly not buying it and I'd wager there's plenty of people who also don't buy that, you really expect me to believe that when your latest posts are basically just you jerking yourself off over getting the gumroad and talking about your next dastardly plan, do as much mental gymnastics as you want but it's very clear you ARE emotionally invested into this, heck you even have clear motive to get so invested in this.

Since you're interested, I'll give you some insight into my thought process. I like this game. I've been playing it since a few months after it started. It used to be one of my favorites, a 9/10. I never needed to like the dev for this to be the case and I still don't need to, even though for various reasons that have nothing to do with his behavior, my score for it has fallen a bit. Still worth playing, obviously - I would have just taken the L in money lost and left, otherwise.

I never installed the care packages, so I never got my own saves deleted. But since I want other people to enjoy playing this game, and I enjoyed the gamesmanship and know a little bit about programming, I was one of the first people to find the hidden DRM code and had a solution if it hadn't already been posted. I then made the post that helped people recover from it, because again, I like this game and I want other people to enjoy it, despite the dev's best efforts sometimes.

I also find loli content to be gross, but not gross enough that it should be illegal or even banned here or anything. If the dev wants it to be a part of this game, the only comment I'll make on the matter is hoping it's optional, as I believe it will be, given we were given the choice to walk in on Chinami in the bath or not a couple updates ago. I also think that's in the best interest of the game, as there are a lot of people like me who would find forced loli content off-putting, with reactions to it far exceeding mine.

I also think this entire anti-piracy crusade is stupid, self-absorbed, extremely and directly counter-productive, and has objectively harmed a number of unsuspecting users, including some of his current subscribers and I'm sure a number of potential subs as well. In doing so, it has directly harmed the game. As I like the game, I take issue with this. Why am I taking ownership of the game like this, and going against the dev here? Because this is a crowdfunded project and I was one of the crowdfunders.

Since the gumroad was being used exclusively to sell loli shit, and I had to take time out of my day to help people with the DRM, I felt motivated to take another 3 minutes out of my day to look at the TOS, post about it here, and submit a report two sentences in length encouraging them to merely read the item descriptions. I think that's perfectly fair.

"During the time" I did "nothing but damage my own arguments" I literally specified that I had no further plans for retaliation unless the DRM escalated.

Your next point, yes you did contribute $70 towards this game good on you and for a time I'm sure your opinion genuinely mattered until you burnt all your goodwill and got yourself banned from the discord, now you spend your days here talking nonsense about a developer you hate all the while playing the game still.

Believe it or not, every single thing I have posted in this thread, and 100% of my emotional investment, is in the best interests of the game's success. I believe it still has more potential than any other on this site. The extent of my negative feelings toward the developer end when they're not directly involved with his actions and attitude directly harming the userbase and potential success of his own game - which he has, more severely than every other VN developer other than Yandere Dev I've ever encountered combined - including the Dual Family guy, ICSTOR, and every other milker on here.

Admittedly, I've sunk more time into this thread than someone who merely "likes" it would. I should probably admit to myself that I still love the game, despite the repetitive one-dimensional character trait reinforcement, the boring, self-indulgent navel-gazing, and it constantly trying as hard as it can to gross you out in ways that definitely seem plot-relevant - all of which having been driven so far into the ground it's passed the Cheyenne Mountain facility.

So yeah, you're right. I have a problem. I have a pretty clear reason that I don't want to admit to for posting here so much. It's just not what you think. It's because of Yumi, Maya, and Rin, some of the best characters I've ever seen in any VN, and the mystery of the whole thing. You caught me.

Now I'm willing to take some responsibility for this next part I'm going to address, about "jerking each other off" perhaps I could have made who I was talking about more clear or perhaps you purposely misinterpreted my post on purpose, either way let's get that cleared up, no I don't think the whole community here is bad, I never did, that comment was always about a particular group of regulars here who seem to spend most of their time here mocking Sel and spying on the Discord and sometimes even making plans to mess with the discord community but hey clearly they're not emotionally invested, not at all.

At the very least, I didn't purposefully misinterpret you. Every argument I've made I've done my best to make head on. I don't engage in strawmanning, nor anything resembling what Selly did when he completely and maliciously misrepresented why he banned me from the Discord in a pathetic attempt to discredit my arguments.

I can't speak for others here, but since your original comment was directed at me, for my part I had already called it quits about discussing the developer, in favor of just the game, until the DRM hit. Then the whole thing started anew when a bunch of people are still posting here about losing their saves and bricking their installation.

You can say that we provoked that by continuing to pirate his content, but in reality it was one of his subscribers that decided to leak it, and the staff of this website whose job it is to provide as much content for their userbase as possible. Sorry to you and Selly, but both of those things are just not going to stop anytime soon, he's sown far too much resentment in his own playerbase.

And again, I'd say that any of our attempts to "mess with the Discord community" and take down some of his ancillary revenue sources pale in comparison to the harm the DRM and the hate raid a while ago caused.

Now about Sel himself, yes perhaps some of his actions were wrong, but his most recent actions, as questionable as they are, were done to protect his product, can't fault him for that, it would be nice if Sel ignored this place completely but it seems some of you enjoy these little spats more than you seem to enjoy seeing this game continued.

I can fault him for it. He "protected his product" by hurting a number of his own subscribers and potential ones as well, in a way that was bypassed inside of an hour. What exactly did he accomplish?

As for your last point, I think you're only talking about one particularly peeved outlier, and let's be real - the Subscribestar, the only platform of his apart from the website that actually matters, is not going to be taken down no matter how hard anyone tries, so given that I want to see the game succeed, I'm not really worried about it.

His Shopify merch store is another story. You can do a lot of evil shit far beyond just deleting saves with the Python os library without, I don't think, the game asking for admin elevation. So if he fucks around with that, we'll find out what happens.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Grey food? What came to mind was grey matter, which is part of the human central nervous system, espacially the brain.
Could stand for learning things in a twisted way.

Baby Finches has a moment where Maya talks about a mama bird pecking at her young's skull to kill it.

It is possible that grey food is, in fact, grey matter. That the girls eating the grey food are really the various doctors and nurses in an operating room performing brain surgery on Sensei. I'm not sure what the upside down house would symbolise in this interpretation -- perhaps he's oriented on the table in some way that down appears to be up? If he's briefly coming out of the anesthesia and getting a partial image of what's happening around him, the muted sensation of someone tinkering with his brain might feel like someone using a fork on it, thus the association with food.

I honestly hope this isn't the scenario. "It's all a dream/hallucination/simulation" would feel awfully cheap for a story that's gone on this long.

 

[ocworld]

So the people who literally announced leaking out of spite are using it as an excuse? That doesn't make sense, especially in the heat of this intercommunity spat where figurative punches have been thrown on at least one occasion.

I thought so too, but I looked at the message history of that "leaker" So the most illogical thing made logical sense. Basically he doing the same thing over and over.This is his typical behavior he leaks everything. Explanation is simply that such a person exists, that's all. And so he wanted to feel a part of the community that some of the members of this thread were pushing. It their narratives'.

 

[derekthered56]

The flashback in Baby Finches happens prior to the time loop, and she already hates the idea of kids at that point, so probably not.

Maya never talks about her parents, and her best friends don't know anything about them. That's suspicious.

My theory is that Maya is actually one of the various Maya's whose abandoned her post to live near the man she fell in love with. This explains why she has no apparent origin, no parents, and just kind of appears in Akira's life at some point.

If that's not making sense, I mean a narrative similar to Nicholas Cage's character in City of Angels, where he, as an angel, falls for a human woman and falls from Heaven to live a mortal life so he can be with her.

This would also explain why in so many happy scenes, we see a Maya in some form of torture -- she's being punished.

If "our" Maya is the one that broke the rules, why are they punishing a different one?

Maya said previously that Sensei had caught up to her level of knowledge with what's going on. The limits of her knowledge seem more like what a normal person would find out stuck in her situation, rather than a supernatural entity that was already familiar with how supernatural things work. Compare her to how knowledgeable Daisy seems to be.
Of course that still all fits if Tsuyeno was right about Maya's memories being tampered with too. Maybe she forgot she isn't actually a normal teenage girl.

 

[MattRodri]

so i stopped playing in v26 and i've seen there's drama going on.. can anyone give me a not so long or maybe long TLDR of the thing? i'm actually quite curious about what's happened/is happening

 

[barglenarglezous]

If "our" Maya is the one that broke the rules, why are they punishing a different one?

Maya said previously that Sensei had caught up to her level of knowledge with what's going on. The limits of her knowledge seem more like what a normal person would find out stuck in her situation, rather than a supernatural entity that was already familiar with how supernatural things work. Compare her to how knowledgeable Daisy seems to be.
Of course that still all fits if Tsuyeno was right about Maya's memories being tampered with too. Maybe she forgot she isn't actually a normal teenage girl.

Maya says "I'm just a normal teenage girl" far too often to actually be a normal teenage girl.

It's very possible -- even likely -- that she's still withholding information, either because it's something she has been hiding from Akira the whole time ("I fell from heaven for you just for you to fuck everyone but me" is a difficult conversation starter), or because, as you point out, she's lost it somehow -- memory tampering is definitely an option.

Maya talks a lot about Trinities -- Three who are one. We're led to believe that the gods are one such trinity, but that third god is awfully uninvolved. However, a very common trinity is the idea of a maiden, mother, and crone.

We have a Mother Maya (Long Maya) and a Crone Maya (Moyo). Is our Maya the Maiden? Are the other Mayas, like AmIOkay attempts to recreate her? Are they the versions of her that existed in earlier stages of the time loop? Maybe it's not that "Our" maya broke the rules, but that every young Maya is just a piece of the same Maya, and they're all guilty?

 

[derekthered56]

Maya says "I'm just a normal teenage girl" far too often to actually be a normal teenage girl.

It's very possible -- even likely -- that she's still withholding information, either because it's something she has been hiding from Akira the whole time ("I fell from heaven for you just for you to fuck everyone but me" is a difficult conversation starter), or because, as you point out, she's lost it somehow -- memory tampering is definitely an option.

Maya talks a lot about Trinities -- Three who are one. We're led to believe that the gods are one such trinity, but that third god is awfully uninvolved. However, a very common trinity is the idea of a maiden, mother, and crone.

We have a Mother Maya (Long Maya) and a Crone Maya (Moyo). Is our Maya the Maiden? Are the other Mayas, like AmIOkay attempts to recreate her? Are they the versions of her that existed in earlier stages of the time loop? Maybe it's not that "Our" maya broke the rules, but that every young Maya is just a piece of the same Maya, and they're all guilty?

Yeah, I like this theory a lot more after thinking about it. The "normal teenage girl" line, the mysterious background, and the memory tampering possibility are all too notable to not come up again, and this fits them all together quite nicely.

I don't think the trinity thing really works though, there's just too many Mayas. What complicates this is that supernatural creatures appear how others percieve them. The other Mayas might not be directly related to Maya at all, except that Sensei "sees" them as Maya the same way he saw Nao as Ami.

 

[k1n5l4y3r]

so i stopped playing in v26 and i've seen there's drama going on.. can anyone give me a not so long or maybe long TLDR of the thing? i'm actually quite curious about what's happened/is happening

Care packages gets leaked, Selebus throws a hissy fit, fast forward to this update that contains malicious code that deletes your save, and bricks the game by deleting the scripts.rpy file.

 

[zonesamabaka]

so i stopped playing in v26 and i've seen there's drama going on.. can anyone give me a not so long or maybe long TLDR of the thing? i'm actually quite curious about what's happened/is happening

mr. sell a bus adds code to check for pirates and delete their save data/break game files (also affecting non pirates allegedly)
mr. sell a bus loses(?) one of his subscription platforms that didn't allow pornographic content in its ToS due to mass reporting

 

[BlackDays]

The flashback in Baby Finches happens prior to the time loop, and she already hates the idea of kids at that point, so probably not.

That BF is happening prior to the loops i'm not so sure of. It's already kind of repeating itself inside the event.