Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.41.0] [Selebus]

[ratmanirl]

It's definitely a stance. One I'd expect from Nodoka, don't get me wrong. But it's one that's self-serving, hypocritical and convenient. You can't just, in good faith, do something that you know is going to hurt your "best friend", and blame it on them for not being "smart" enough to not delve deeper into it, or expect that they are just on a lower level than you and that eventually they'll reach your understanding of the world and conform to yours.

Futaba has read every single thing Nodoka has written, obviously she was going to read something that had her, all her friends, and the first man she loved in it. "Just don't read" is akin to adding insult to injury. And Nodoka has known Futaba for how long? Obviously she could predict at least some level of hurt from reading it.

My point is, it's not a priority for her. Futaba was never really as sacred as she likes to profess, that's a delusion she, for some reason, likes to maintain.

I mean, does anyone really think that Nodoka loses sleep about anyone's feelings, Futaba included? She and Akira are both detached, difference is that Akira admits to himself the stuff he does is fucked up and we get to see his internal dialogue. He has stuff that is actually sacred to him.

Nodoka? I'm not really sure she's even there enough to diagnose that there is a problem. She's just off. It would be wonderful if Futaba really cuts her off from her life, if the class finds out what she did to Yumi and also cut her off, but to be honest I'm not sure if any of that would even make a difference to her.

Yeah. And I refuse to believe a character that's "smart" to not see how making the book can jeopardize and hurt Futaba beyond just her "feelings." While it's definitely not Futaba's fault, the idea of "sleeping with her teacher" which apparently is pretty easy surmised from the book, can jeopardize her relationship with her friends, and even her future to some extent. For Nodoka to dismiss that as "not real" and justify to herself that it doesn't count as hurting Futaba is kinda baffling.

"Nodoka doesn't have common sense" Ok, but she should have logic? Like you can be completely detached from the situation and still see how it puts Futaba at risk objectively. Like either she's smart or she's retarded, you can't just conveniently give her 0 IQ when the story needs her to be like that.

 

[Xiondingens]

I mean, does anyone really think that Nodoka loses sleep about anyone's feelings, Futaba included?

I dont.

 

[DeSkel15]

I wonder how many "Huh"s Nodoka will have before they move on from the book stuff?:

Spoiler

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[Ma1phas]

"Nodoka doesn't have common sense" Ok, but she should have logic? Like you can be completely detached from the situation and still see how it puts Futaba at risk objectively. Like either she's smart or she's retarded, you can't just conveniently give her 0 IQ when the story needs her to be like that.

Too sick to be eloquent, so forgive if I jumble this a bit.
Nodoka isn't written like a smart character, she's written like a caricature of one. The callous, detached, possibly even sociopathic behavior, and general smugness that makes you want to punch her. No focus on any area of study so she just knows everything about everything and reads people like books despite her abject lack of social understanding.
She basically comes of as a character written to be how DeGrasse views himself, and the modern views and associations of morals being dumb and nihilism being a sign of intelligence.
If it's not intentional and she's not actually supernatural, she's a poorly written character, and even then she kind of is.

A general rule, a writer can make a character far smarter than themselves, but they can't really make a character wiser than themselves. Not intentionally, anyways.
Sel isn't STUPID, but he certainly isn't a wise man as we've often seen from his childish, egotistical behavior, and while his writing has plenty of smart points to it, the attempts to be mysterious and deep often dip into pure pretention.
Nodoka, when she really gets going on her views and motives, is the pure embodiment of this.

 

[Xiondingens]

Sel isn't STUPID, but he certainly isn't a wise man as we've often seen from his childish, egotistical behavior, and while his writing has plenty of smart points to it, the attempts to be mysterious and deep often dip into pure pretention.
Nodoka, when she really gets going on her views and motives, is the pure embodiment of this.

I so second this. Everytime when he tries to be mysterious, my cringe alarm goes of. Especially when he tries so cheap and lazy to shock people with RL pics of gross stuff or spiders. When he does that i cant help but roll my eyes and wonder if he is even trying.

 

[Nadekai]

I so second this. Everytime when he tries to be mysterious, my cringe alarm goes of. Especially when he tries so cheap and lazy to shock people with RL pics of gross stuff or spiders. When he does that i cant help but roll my eyes and wonder if he is even trying.

My usual go-to reason for those "episodes" is that he's just high on something.

 

[Xiondingens]

My usual go-to reason for those "episodes" is that he's just high on something.

Nah, they feel too boring and lazy for that. I think he does genuinely believe he did create something great when he does them.

 

[ratmanirl]

Too sick to be eloquent, so forgive if I jumble this a bit.
Nodoka isn't written like a smart character, she's written like a caricature of one. The callous, detached, possibly even sociopathic behavior, and general smugness that makes you want to punch her. No focus on any area of study so she just knows everything about everything and reads people like books despite her abject lack of social understanding.
She basically comes of as a character written to be how DeGrasse views himself, and the modern views and associations of morals being dumb and nihilism being a sign of intelligence.
If it's not intentional and she's not actually supernatural, she's a poorly written character, and even then she kind of is.

A general rule, a writer can make a character far smarter than themselves, but they can't really make a character wiser than themselves. Not intentionally, anyways.
Sel isn't STUPID, but he certainly isn't a wise man as we've often seen from his childish, egotistical behavior, and while his writing has plenty of smart points to it, the attempts to be mysterious and deep often dip into pure pretention.
Nodoka, when she really gets going on her views and motives, is the pure embodiment of this.

Definitely unintentional, or just too lazy to fix it. Like regarding Futaba, the conversation is actually about if you should respect your friend's feelings, even if they are unreasonable, which fair enough is an interesting idea. But the premise to even have that conversation is that Futaba's feelings are unreasonable, or in other words that Nodoka's book has 0% chance of impacting Futaba besides just her feelings.

And Sel does such a piss-poor job of arguing that Futaba won't actually get hurt, with Nodoka just saying "yeah, you won't get hurt because... I said so." And no one challenges Nodoka for this, not even Futaba. So it's like what the fuck is the point of 85% of the conversation when you never even justified the very foundation of it? And why does Futaba just let Nodoka get away with saying that?

There's a glaring issue, but the character is too dumb to address it even though it's obvious. Completely ruins my immersion cuz it seems like an asspull to make Nodoka right. You can say that's kinda the point, after all Nodoka's whole spiel during Nodokathon was along the lines of "I'm right until someone proves me wrong" but I guess they live in a world of idiots who can't argue against Nodoka so Nodoka is always right.

 

[Axismundi]

Yall don't understand the true genius of best sociopath. Your opinions are hereby invalid. I award you no Nodoka points, and may GOD have mercy on your soul.

 

[Xiondingens]

Meh, for a sociopathic character she is actually pretty mid.

 

[Nadekai]

Wouldn't it be fun if Sensei blacked out and assaulted Io?

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

Too sick to be eloquent, so forgive if I jumble this a bit.
Nodoka isn't written like a smart character, she's written like a caricature of one. The callous, detached, possibly even sociopathic behavior, and general smugness that makes you want to punch her. No focus on any area of study so she just knows everything about everything and reads people like books despite her abject lack of social understanding.
She basically comes of as a character written to be how DeGrasse views himself, and the modern views and associations of morals being dumb and nihilism being a sign of intelligence.
If it's not intentional and she's not actually supernatural, she's a poorly written character, and even then she kind of is.

A general rule, a writer can make a character far smarter than themselves, but they can't really make a character wiser than themselves. Not intentionally, anyways.
Sel isn't STUPID, but he certainly isn't a wise man as we've often seen from his childish, egotistical behavior, and while his writing has plenty of smart points to it, the attempts to be mysterious and deep often dip into pure pretention.
Nodoka, when she really gets going on her views and motives, is the pure embodiment of this.

I like how you are describing Nodoka and not realizing she sounds exactly like how Selebus would view himself and how my theory that she's a self-insert seems more plausible

 

[Xiondingens]

Wouldn't it be fun if Sensei blacked out and assaulted Io?

No.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

Wouldn't it be fun if Sensei blacked out and assaulted Io?

Funny you say that

 

[Ma1phas]

I like how you are describing Nodoka and not realizing she sounds exactly like how Selebus would view himself and how my theory that she's a self-insert seems more plausible

I'm not disagreeing.

Meh, for a sociopathic character she is actually pretty mid.

Only in that she's pretty poorly done even for one. She has the moral character and attitude of one, but rather than actually being convincingly conniving and able to imitate emotions long enough to tell people what they want to hear to get her way, she just has "basically scrying" tier perception and everyone around her is just too dumb to go against her puddle deep arguments.
Maybe she's not actually supposed to be a sociopath, but sociopathic/narcissistic disorders run in my family, and I'm convinced she's either A - a failed portrayal of that, or B - In line with LID's theory, how someone with it would write a self insert, with all the casual superiority complex that entails.

 

[k1n5l4y3r]

Wouldn't it be fun if Sensei blacked out and assaulted Io?

Yes.

 

[Xiondingens]

Only in that she's pretty poorly done even for one. She has the moral character and attitude of one, but rather than actually being convincingly conniving and able to imitate emotions long enough to tell people what they want to hear to get her way, she just has "basically scrying" tier perception and everyone around her is just too dumb to go against her puddle deep arguments.
Maybe she's not actually supposed to be a sociopath, but sociopathic/narcissistic disorders run in my family, and I'm convinced she's either A - a failed portrayal of that, or B - In line with LID's theory, how someone with it would write a self insert, with all the casual superiority complex that entails.

I mean that in the way that i have read more interesting sociopathic characters with more deepth. So far all what she has shown is barely an inch deep. She is all about manipulating people -and not even good at that i might add- writting her little book, been a pervert and dont give a shit about other peoples emotions. Not that she herself has many of those. She is either pervy, smug, blank or surprised, when she isnt busy to act psychotic. Cant think of any other "emotion" she has shown and with that list i was already generous imo.

And the theory that she is a self insert isnt new. I just dont remember if i already made a post about that a while ago, or if i talked somewhere else about it. Imo, it is a pretty solid theory when we look at how full of herself she is. But then i must wonder, how can someone actually selfinsert themself as they are, with all the unlikeable flaws, without realizing what an ass one is.

I mean shouldnt that cause some sort of self reflection?

 

[Nadekai]

Funny you say that

What do you mean by that?

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

Imo, it is a pretty solid theory when we look at how full of herself she is. But then i must wonder, how can someone actually selfinsert themself as they are, with all the unlikeable flaws, without realizing what an ass one is.

I mean shouldnt that cause some sort of self reflection?

The irony wouldn't be lost on Selebus not realizing she has unlikeable flaws and thinking she IS the perfect sociopath, precisely because he sees himself on Nodoka

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

It's not a theory, Nodoka IS a self-insert



he himself confirmed it here in an alt (not me)