Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.41.0] [Selebus]

[Arato23]

I don't think it's that weird to know a bit about Christianity and not be religious. You wouldn't expect someone who is an expert in Greek or Norse myth to believe it.

I tend to find I know more about their religion than most "Christians" over here in the UK. The origin of religions and culture is just a fascinating thing, and I tend to treat current religions in much the same way as the Greeks or Vikings. (The Greek god were way more fun btw)

I wouldn't want to assume Selebus' motives but some of the religious iconography (particularly as used around Yasu) feels very much like playing with some of the tropes of the genre. The Japanese love to stick esoteric Western religious symbols into their media - just look at Evangelion or Final Fantasy. If there's no crucifixes or references to kabbalah it's just not a Japanese horror/mystery/commentary on life.

Well, something like Yasu is what I expect as a trope of "Christianity" within a Japanese game (or a westerner imitating a Japanese game). What I don't expect is, well, actually quoting the bible, and a reference to an actual Apostle, and more specifically, actually quoting Jesus.
Most Japanese people really don't know much about Christianity, they know it involves Crosses, Churches, and then they kind of go off the deep end of Catholic mysticism rather than stuff actually in the bible, you know, holy water, priests using magic, exorcisms, silver weapons, etc..
But I'm half expecting for Kaori to start talking about how she has to go and prepare a place for Sensei, and if she goes and prepares a place for Sensei she will come again and receive him to herself, separating sheep from goats, wheat from tares, etc lol.

 

[worthlesspeon]

It isn't just apparent, Selebus has outright stated it will take multiple years. This is going to be a VERY large, VERY long game in the end with A LOT of content. It already has a word count bigger than the bible. As for the 'tantamount to stealing from Jesus Christ' part, it technically is. Stealing is the same no matter who is being stolen from. However, I get what you were trying to convey. Also, this is more a game with porn than a porn game, the difference being a porn game focuses on the porn while this focuses on the story and the porn comes second, if not last, in priority.

Yeah I'm sorta skeptical that it will ever actually get completed at the rate it's going. Or if it is, whether I'll even care to finish it by that point. If it's truly going to take near a decade... my life will look very different than it does now. We'll see. Maybe I'll just resub once a year or so to play through a large amount of content at once. If at some point I lose interest, then oh well.

I would argue if any game has porn as any part of its focus, it's a porn game. Sorta like how Dave Cameron is a pig fucker. Sure he was also prime minister of the UK, and the whole pig fucking thing was a very small part of his life... but it's a very defining aspect as well.

With regards to the whole piracy argument - I'm quite certain this game has only attained the amount of exposure it has because it was available on sites like this. I know I never would have played and ultimately subbed it if it wasn't for F95.

 

[alex2011]

Well, something like Yasu is what I expect as a trope of "Christianity" within a Japanese game (or a westerner imitating a Japanese game). What I don't expect is, well, actually quoting the bible, and a reference to an actual Apostle, and more specifically, actually quoting Jesus.
Most Japanese people really don't know much about Christianity, they know it involves Crosses, Churches, and then they kind of go off the deep end of Catholic mysticism rather than stuff actually in the bible, you know, holy water, priests using magic, exorcisms, silver weapons, etc..
But I'm half expecting for Kaori to start talking about how she has to go and prepare a place for Sensei, and if she goes and prepares a place for Sensei she will come again and receive him to herself, separating sheep from goats, wheat from tares, etc lol.

Selebus does many things that aren't expected.

Yeah I'm sorta skeptical that it will ever actually get completed at the rate it's going. Or if it is, whether I'll even care to finish it by that point. If it's truly going to take near a decade... my life will look very different than it does now. We'll see. Maybe I'll just resub once a year or so to play through a large amount of content at once. If at some point I lose interest, then oh well.

I would argue if any game has porn as any part of its focus, it's a porn game. Sorta like how Dave Cameron is a pig fucker. Sure he was also prime minister of the UK, and the whole pig fucking thing was a very small part of his life... but it's a very defining aspect as well.

With regards to the whole piracy argument - I'm quite certain this game has only attained the amount of exposure it has because it was available on sites like this. I know I never would have played and ultimately subbed it if it wasn't for F95.

Not sure what you mean, Selebus has kept up a two release per month schedule for a while now excluding extremely large updates more suited to a single release and break times. That's more than most games by a one man development team, and even some multi-man development teams outside the AAA realm, can say.

That's the thing, porn is in the game, but it is not the focus, it is side content. The focus in this game is entirely on the story. This is more like Game of Thrones than it is Euphoria, for example.

That may be true, but that doesn't mean piracy doesn't hurt him. Selebus has specifically noted a sharp decline in subscribers when a release gets leaked. Not people leaving that were already subscribed, new subscribers. Exposure only helps new games get established, it doesn't help existing games that are already established. I'm the same, I found it specifically because of it appearing here on F95, back when it was in its first release. Having it appear here then helped it grow, but doesn't help it now since it no longer needs exposure to succeed.

 

[Cerpin]

Well, something like Yasu is what I expect as a trope of "Christianity" within a Japanese game (or a westerner imitating a Japanese game). What I don't expect is, well, actually quoting the bible, and a reference to an actual Apostle, and more specifically, actually quoting Jesus.
Most Japanese people really don't know much about Christianity, they know it involves Crosses, Churches, and then they kind of go off the deep end of Catholic mysticism rather than stuff actually in the bible, you know, holy water, priests using magic, exorcisms, silver weapons, etc..
But I'm half expecting for Kaori to start talking about how she has to go and prepare a place for Sensei, and if she goes and prepares a place for Sensei she will come again and receive him to herself, separating sheep from goats, wheat from tares, etc lol.

Selebus has established that he at least has some interest in English lit through quoting American hack-fraud poets so its not really surprising that bible quotes get in there.

The bible is after all a very important and influencial work of fiction.

 

[cckerberos]

what are the requirements for "why don't you ever lock the door" event? says i missed it.

Sleeping with Sara

 

[worthlesspeon]

Selebus does many things that aren't expected.


Not sure what you mean, Selebus has kept up a two release per month schedule for a while now excluding extremely large updates more suited to a single release and break times. That's more than most games by a one man development team, and even some multi-man development teams outside the AAA realm, can say.

There have been a lot of devs who have done regular updates only to fall off the face of the Earth. I'll be pleasantly surprised if he manages to actually complete it, but surprised nonetheless. There's also a real possibility interest and therefore funds will wane before it's complete. Or Illusion will issue a C&D. Or many of the other assetholders (i.e Nintendo, Coca-cola) that have been featured in this game. Or Patreon will bring down the hammer. We'll see what happens. I won't hold my breath.

That's the thing, porn is in the game, but it is not the focus, it is side content. The focus in this game is entirely on the story. This is more like Game of Thrones than it is Euphoria, for example.

This game is far more explicit than GoT was, I don't think it's a reasonable comparison. And more importantly, GoT would not be dramatically changed if they eliminated all of the pornish elements. This game would be. Hence it's a porn game.

That may be true, but that doesn't mean piracy doesn't hurt him. Selebus has specifically noted a sharp decline in subscribers when a release gets leaked. Not people leaving that were already subscribed, new subscribers. Exposure only helps new games get established, it doesn't help existing games that are already established. I'm the same, I found it specifically because of it appearing here on F95, back when it was in its first release. Having it appear here then helped it grow, but doesn't help it now since it no longer needs exposure to succeed.

Eh you can't really have your cake and eat it too. Sure he may get fewer subs when there's a leak, but he still has much more than he ever would have had otherwise. And since it's still ultimately a porn game, it's going to be difficult for him to get exposure anywhere else to keep the subscribers increasing.

I think there's also the confounder that the updates that didn't leak early were some of the more anticipated updates as well.

 

[alex2011]

There have been a lot of devs who have done regular updates only to fall off the face of the Earth. I'll be pleasantly surprised if he manages to actually complete it, but surprised nonetheless. There's also a real possibility interest and therefore funds will wane before it's complete. Or Illusion will issue a C&D. Or many of the other assetholders (i.e Nintendo, Coca-cola) that have been featured in this game. Or Patreon will bring down the hammer. We'll see what happens. I won't hold my breath.



This game is far more explicit than GoT was, I don't think it's a reasonable comparison. And more importantly, GoT would not be dramatically changed if they eliminated all of the pornish elements. This game would be. Hence it's a porn game.



Eh you can't really have your cake and eat it too. Sure he may get fewer subs when there's a leak, but he still has much more than he ever would have had otherwise. And since it's still ultimately a porn game, it's going to be difficult for him to get exposure anywhere else to keep the subscribers increasing.

I think there's also the confounder that the updates that didn't leak early were some of the more anticipated updates as well.

Usually because of something that doesn't allow them to continue, no such thing has happened to Selebus nor is there such a thing threatening to at any point in the foreseeable future. Illusion has always held a 'do nothing' stance with regard to using their programs for other games, not to mention that's what Koikatsu's CharaStudio was designed for, to make renders for other projects. Patreon has no justification to bring down the hammer, there was an incident a while back where they tried to block anime style art for its ability to make characters look young even if they actually aren't and they got massive backlash from their users because there was no valid reason to block it. He also has a SubscribeStar, so Patreon is not an issue even if they did.

More explicit, but the same concept. It had sexual content, but did not focus on it, just like this game. Now, take a game like Koikatsu itself into consideration, that one DOES focus on sex and sex is in fact the primary goal of the game, making it a porn game. The focus here is the story and completing the story is the primary goal, making it a game with porn.

Not this late in the game, early on, sure, the leaks meant more exposure and potentially more subscribers, but now it means less because people tend to gravitate toward the least expensive option to get the same product. Selebus has specifically stated this incoming subscriber dropoff is happening with each leak while the non-leak updates see big increases in subscribers. There is no more benefit to the game from piracy. Not a porn game, a game with porn, and he doesn't need the exposure at this point, the game is big enough to stand on its own.

Kind of funny how that last one worked, you would think the more anticipated updates, for example the upcoming second beach event, would make a more enticing target. Oh well, I won't complain that it seems backwards, it still means at least some aren't getting hit by leaks.

 

[Smarmint]

Selebus is one of the most regular and committed devs, so I wouldn't doubt that Lessons in Love will continue for a long time. Just look at the game-play, the story, and the dialog. There is nothing quick or half-assed about it. You can clearly see that this is a passion project for Selebus. Plus, he is one of the few devs that actually have regular high quality, sizeable, and regular updates.

As for whether having the game show up here helps or hurts creators, I think it goes both ways, but overall mostly positive for the dev. It undeniably helps them get patrons, since for me, all the games I personally support, I only found out through here, by playing them. I think that is the case for the majority of supporters of VNs. Players discover the game here or on other sources, play an update or two, and if they love it, and can contribute, many do so. For me personally, I contribute to devs solely to help them and encourage them to continue their games. I rarely ever log into Patreon to collect any game rewards or look at the status there, I hang around the forums here because it is more dynamic and fun, than reading and writing comments on the Patreon pages.

I subscribe to devs because I want to support them, not because I want to get the releases a few weeks early. It doesn't bother me one bit, as a subscriber, if games I support get leaked early.

Of course you will have some users that only subscribe to the patron to get the game, and then quickly unsubscribe, that aren't particularly interested in supporting the devs long term, and those who won't ever give a dollar one way or another, but those people will be around whether sites like this one exist or not. I don't think a poll like this would be welcomed by Petreon, but I bet if Selebus polled his sponsors and asked what made them want to contribute, nearly all of them would say that they found the game, here or elsewhere, played it for awhile, and then contributed to the dev because they wanted to support them, and perhaps wanted some extra perks, or to join the community on Discord, or something similar.

I totally understand how devs can be a little irritated when their game leaks before the public release, but ultimately, for every update that shows up here, means more users discovering the game, and a percentage of them, will lead to more subscribers.

Ultimately, the devs that get the most loyal fans, and thus long term subscibers, are the ones that take a little time to hang around here once and awhile, and shoot the shit with their fans, answer questions about their game, and take good-natured suggestions, and have a good attitude about occasional rude and trolling comments.

Exposure only helps new games get established, it doesn't help existing games that are already established. I'm the same, I found it specifically because of it appearing here on F95, back when it was in its first release. Having it appear here then helped it grow, but doesn't help it now since it no longer needs exposure to succeed.

I disagree with this point. Nearly all the games I support have been around 6 months or longer before I had a chance to play them and become a fan of the game, and decide to support them on Patreon. Every update that shows up here, is more likely to find new users like me. I only look at games that show up on the Latest Updates screen. A game could be amazing, but if is never updated, I will never find out about it. Sure, when I started out here a year or so ago, I read a lot of recommendation threads, and sorted by rating, but now I've tried or at least looked at all the highly rated completed games (I think), so now I just browse the Latest Updates screen regularly to see what is new and what has been updated that I haven't played yet that looks promising.

 

[Dragon59]

Her Rooster is named John.... and John is the disciple that was personally closest to Jesus, who Jesus told to take care of his mother Mary when he was being crucified, and referred to himself as "the disciple that Jesus loved". Also the only apostle that was not martyred (supposedly the Romans tried but were unsuccessful, so they exiled him to an island where he wrote the Book of Revelation)

I just wonder where Selebus is going with this.
Is he Christian, or was he just brought up as one, either way, he seems knowledgeable about it.

I do seem to remember that that is considered a different John.

So you have Yasu, who wears cross imagery and is in a Church but her message is very... culty, rather than Christianity
but then Kaori and her disciple John are literally quoting the bible.

It's just weird details.

The name Yasu is also quite evocative of Yeshua.

I don't think it's that weird to know a bit about Christianity and not be religious. You wouldn't expect someone who is an expert in Greek or Norse myth to believe it.

I tend to find I know more about their religion than most "Christians" over here in the UK. The origin of religions and culture is just a fascinating thing, and I tend to treat current religions in much the same way as the Greeks or Vikings. (The Greek god were way more fun btw)

I wouldn't want to assume Selebus' motives but some of the religious iconography (particularly as used around Yasu) feels very much like playing with some of the tropes of the genre. The Japanese love to stick esoteric Western religious symbols into their media - just look at Evangelion or Final Fantasy. If there's no crucifixes or references to kabbalah it's just not a Japanese horror/mystery/commentary on life.

Yes, one will find that the average atheist will have more biblical knowledge than the average Christian.

Yeah I'm sorta skeptical that it will ever actually get completed at the rate it's going. Or if it is, whether I'll even care to finish it by that point. If it's truly going to take near a decade... my life will look very different than it does now. We'll see. Maybe I'll just resub once a year or so to play through a large amount of content at once. If at some point I lose interest, then oh well.

I would argue if any game has porn as any part of its focus, it's a porn game. Sorta like how Dave Cameron is a pig fucker. Sure he was also prime minister of the UK, and the whole pig fucking thing was a very small part of his life... but it's a very defining aspect as well.

With regards to the whole piracy argument - I'm quite certain this game has only attained the amount of exposure it has because it was available on sites like this. I know I never would have played and ultimately subbed it if it wasn't for F95.

I for one found out about the game here, played a while, then decided to support Selebus.

Selebus has established that he at least has some interest in English lit through quoting American hack-fraud poets so its not really surprising that bible quotes get in there.

The bible is after all a very important and influencial work of fiction.

Selebus has warned that this game is not for the deeply religious. And by that, I think it primarily means devout Christians.

 

[Dragon59]

Most Japanese people really don't know much about Christianity, they know it involves Crosses, Churches, and then they kind of go off the deep end of Catholic mysticism rather than stuff actually in the bible, you know, holy water, priests using magic, exorcisms, silver weapons, etc..

You forgot fried chicken!

But I'm half expecting for Kaori to start talking about how she has to go and prepare a place for Sensei, and if she goes and prepares a place for Sensei she will come again and receive him to herself, separating sheep from goats, wheat from tares, etc lol.

The yandere from the tsundere, the students from the MILFs...

 

[Arato23]

yeah that's another good catch, John being a Chicken because of Japan's Christmas "tradition" of KFC

 

[Lolicon Kami]

Usually because of something that doesn't allow them to continue, no such thing has happened to Selebus nor is there such a

I would hate it, but there's always the possibility that Patreon could (successfully) pull an Onlyfans and ban all adult content. Seriously, though, it sucks that we live in a world where discrimination against the sex/adult/porn industry is legally alright

 

[IIyJIbKa]

Word of the day ?

 

[Dragon59]

I would hate it, but there's always the possibility that Patreon could (successfully) pull an Onlyfans and ban all adult content. Seriously, though, it sucks that we live in a world where discrimination against the sex/adult/porn industry is legally alright

Seriously, that was a very short-sighted move.

 

[Cernunnos.]

Here I was thinking Wakana's favorite poet would be Sylvia Plath but I suppose Poe is similarly depressing and would have less problem with the age disparities.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Word of the day ?

Literally given to you at the start of the scene. It even makes a big deal out of it.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Seriously, that was a very short-sighted move.

It was forced by their banking partners, and OF only got the leverage to renegotiate their terms with their banking partners after their existence was threatened by the exodus.

Banks put these platform in no-win situations on purpose.

 

[JoePlant]

yeah that's another good catch, John being a Chicken because of Japan's Christmas "tradition" of KFC

Frankly I figured it was more the case that it was a rooster in relationship to Peter denying Jesus 3 times before the rooster crowed.

 

[alex2011]

Selebus is one of the most regular and committed devs, so I wouldn't doubt that Lessons in Love will continue for a long time. Just look at the game-play, the story, and the dialog. There is nothing quick or half-assed about it. You can clearly see that this is a passion project for Selebus. Plus, he is one of the few devs that actually have regular high quality, sizeable, and regular updates.

As for whether having the game show up here helps or hurts creators, I think it goes both ways, but overall mostly positive for the dev. It undeniably helps them get patrons, since for me, all the games I personally support, I only found out through here, by playing them. I think that is the case for the majority of supporters of VNs. Players discover the game here or on other sources, play an update or two, and if they love it, and can contribute, many do so. For me personally, I contribute to devs solely to help them and encourage them to continue their games. I rarely ever log into Patreon to collect any game rewards or look at the status there, I hang around the forums here because it is more dynamic and fun, than reading and writing comments on the Patreon pages.

I subscribe to devs because I want to support them, not because I want to get the releases a few weeks early. It doesn't bother me one bit, as a subscriber, if games I support get leaked early.

Of course you will have some users that only subscribe to the patron to get the game, and then quickly unsubscribe, that aren't particularly interested in supporting the devs long term, and those who won't ever give a dollar one way or another, but those people will be around whether sites like this one exist or not. I don't think a poll like this would be welcomed by Petreon, but I bet if Selebus polled his sponsors and asked what made them want to contribute, nearly all of them would say that they found the game, here or elsewhere, played it for awhile, and then contributed to the dev because they wanted to support them, and perhaps wanted some extra perks, or to join the community on Discord, or something similar.

I totally understand how devs can be a little irritated when their game leaks before the public release, but ultimately, for every update that shows up here, means more users discovering the game, and a percentage of them, will lead to more subscribers.

Ultimately, the devs that get the most loyal fans, and thus long term subscibers, are the ones that take a little time to hang around here once and awhile, and shoot the shit with their fans, answer questions about their game, and take good-natured suggestions, and have a good attitude about occasional rude and trolling comments.



I disagree with this point. Nearly all the games I support have been around 6 months or longer before I had a chance to play them and become a fan of the game, and decide to support them on Patreon. Every update that shows up here, is more likely to find new users like me. I only look at games that show up on the Latest Updates screen. A game could be amazing, but if is never updated, I will never find out about it. Sure, when I started out here a year or so ago, I read a lot of recommendation threads, and sorted by rating, but now I've tried or at least looked at all the highly rated completed games (I think), so now I just browse the Latest Updates screen regularly to see what is new and what has been updated that I haven't played yet that looks promising.

You are one person, that is not an indication of helping or hurting, I found the game because of it, too, but again I am but one person. What IS an indication is when the developer sees consistent drops in incoming patrons for leaked updates and significant increases in non-leaked updates. Piracy isn't hurting the game to a fatal degree, yet, I agree on that, but that doesn't mean it isn't hurting the game.

yeah that's another good catch, John being a Chicken because of Japan's Christmas "tradition" of KFC

You know, I hadn't even considered that, though Japanese Christmas is less the celebration of Jesus's birth and more the commercialized variant of the holiday. They have Christians over there, but Christianity is a minority religion to Buddhism and Shintoism, both of which don't celebrate that particular holiday.

I would hate it, but there's always the possibility that Patreon could (successfully) pull an Onlyfans and ban all adult content. Seriously, though, it sucks that we live in a world where discrimination against the sex/adult/porn industry is legally alright

They wouldn't dare after their attempt on anime art style hentai games, they already know that's a mass exodus waiting to happen. The only way they would is if the profit outweighed the losses, like if some new sponsor came in with a bigger offer than what they would lose by literally losing every user they have contingent on ousting adult content entirely.

Seriously, that was a very short-sighted move.

It was forced by their banking partners, and OF only got the leverage to renegotiate their terms with their banking partners after their existence was threatened by the exodus.

Banks put these platform in no-win situations on purpose.

VERY short-sighted, Onlyfans is practically nothing compared to what it once was even with the resolution that ultimately came out of the situation. People just won't trust them anymore to not pull that again. It's the same reason I'm actually NOT considering Patreon for some future projects of my own. They may be the big boys in town, but they aren't worth the trouble even if I don't do anything they might get rid of.

 

[pelvicsorceror]

after scouring the spider scene in word of the day forever i still have no clue what love is. the answer is probably not not having a big penis to hurt girl with

so where the hell is it

is the game punishing me because i answered with ''baby dont hurt me''