Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.43.0] [Selebus]

[KnowNoHope]

You've certainly got an interesting view there for someone who failed to acknowledge any of my points and just gave a very weak facepalm react.

Don't need to when two other people destroyed your points better than I could before I even saw your points

True. Remember when it wasn't the case at all? I do. What changed?


They called it "mature" because he attempts to explain the situation from both ends, give Sel some benifit of the doubt and take responsibility for some fuck ups on their end. Meanwhile Sel does fine straw man in his announcement section. What a victim, my ass.


Sam is being all nice (-ish) here, but let's be honest: he likely doesn't give a fuck. Not in a malicious way, but in a "I have little emotional investment and even less time" way. There's perhaps something to be said about the consistentcy of enforcement of rules. I'm not privy to situation about loli content and i'm not sure how exactly it is being moderated, considering that "loli" tag exist. I will say that Sel does not have a moral grounds here, considering his own flip-flopping position on piracy and the fact that he doesn't actually own the assets he makes the game with.


I don't know about the real percentage, but it's not far from the truth. Thinking otherwise is being willfully ignorant, or indulging in self-delusion.


Either I misunderstood you, or you're confusing timeframes here. Usually, when people say this "95%" they talk about initial or overall growth. At the point where Sel were sending SOS here, game could grow on "it's own" without f95 contribution, that's true.

Thousands of people browse this thread and 2-3 are leaking content. But it didn't use to be this way - back in the Patreon days, the number of patrons was similar, but updates used to take a few days to leak if they ended up leaking at all. I wonder what changed?



Care about what, Selly reaching his stated goal of making as much money as Summertime Saga? I don't know if you've noticed, but a lot of even the less popular games on this site leak pretty quickly here, as sharing and talking about games is what this website is for. So what you want is the staff of this website to sacrifice the desires of their entire community for those of one single already-successful game dev, making an exception for this one game among thousands, because why? He's not making enough money to support all the overhead he has, being a staunchly one-man crew who doesn't even have to pay for assets?

I get that what Selly wants is this thread deleted, but he's being megalomaniacal and irrational, because all that would do is ensure his growth completely and permanently stagnated. Every time this thread pops up on the latest updates page, thousands of people who have never heard of it before get the opportunity to discover it for the first time. Thousands of people who played it or saw it pop up in the past are reminded of its existence. This thread has almost 6 million views. All of those eyeballs come with a conversion rate of people generous enough to support its existence through patronage, which is the only reason he's reached the level of success he has. There is no other place on the internet that offers this kind of exposure, especially for games as depraved as this one. It will NEVER be hosted on Steam or GOG or any other mainstream marketplace at any point in the future, because of both the subject matter and the fact that he doesn't own the copyright on the visual assets.



Again - I'm interested in what the nuthugger perspective is for how else this game is going to be discoverable. How many people do you think talk to other people about the porn games they play, especially ones of this nature? How many have you, personally? I saw one guy in another game's thread talk about how he got his dad to play and support the game - do you think something similar has ever happened with this one?

Are there some other websites where this game has gotten even 1/10th the exposure it's gotten here? AFAIK, there's only Itch, who are beholden to Paypal and Stripe's content policies, who even you must realize would probably not be OK with processing payments for this game if they knew they were doing it. Luckily since no one here wants to actually harm a game dev, they are unlikely to for the foreseeable future, but that's the only real place this game has to fall back on if this thread goes away, AFAIK.

It's also not a point of view I had a post deleted as well calling out the childish behavior. While I admit I am making an assumption on your origin. You are a burner account from like 4 years ago with very little posts that has done nothing but simp so it seems like a solid assumption

 

[crustlord12]

crustlord12 lol why the facepalm? am I missing something obvious?

Facepalmed because, as axelsk said, this question has been asked so many times in this thread and it just gums up the board

 

[Wardtnaci]

Thanks, any chance i can grab the image file version of it though? I keep the image in my LiL folder for quick reference.

You could just Highlight and Copy/Paste the text into Notepad and save as *.txt file. Or if you're lazy, here use mine.

I see Rika (Rin's mom) is confirmed next character to be released now(0.31 part 1)

 

[Black Raven]

I see Rika (Rin's mom) is confirmed next character to be released now(0.31 part 1)

It was confirmed on discord a while ago but yeah good for her to finally get her first solo events.

The suspense is still very real as to who will be the 35th and last character.

 

[Wardtnaci]

It was confirmed on discord a while ago

I wouldn't know that. The only thing I see on discord is the #Rules. I know there's more than just the #Rules page. Was there about a year ago just reading what ppl had to say and see hints of what's to come, but now everything else is cut off.

 

[KnowNoHope]

I wouldn't know that. The only thing I see on discord is the #Rules. I know there's more than just the #Rules page. Was there about a year ago just reading what ppl had to say and see hints of what's to come, but now everything else is cut off.

Read the rules. I think you have to click a meat icon or something to get access to the public things

 

[Wardtnaci]

Read the rules. I think you have to click a meat icon or something to get access to the public things

Well that's odd. I'll give it a shot.
Edit: Well it worked; not before I clicked on the on the wrong one, because there 3 of them in that post, and was asked to pay for "Nitro" for $99.99! Which is a NoTY!

Also does anyone know why the event of Chika inviting Sensei to the Onsen on Monday in the school hall is NOT listed any where in the game? Not in Main Events or Main Girls or Side Girls or even the LiL Wiki!

 

[vehemental]

I'm really not a picky reader, but if what you say is true then probably even I will notice it. I'll be re-reading LiL from scratch in the following months, so I'm really curious to see if it's that badly misplaced, because previous ones were more or less moderate to me.

You'll notice it. It even seems self aware, as Sensei tells her to calm down, and she acknowledges that people will complain. Not self aware enough apparently.

On the latter, I see your point and I most certainly don't want to say that expressing your critique or disapproval is bad or unnecessary, but there's not so much you can and should do to enforce your vision. Say your opinion, but after that it mostly falls on the developer's shoulders (or what's above them) to discern shitty ramblings from sound advices, and if he can't - well you tried, not your fault and no sense pushing further. He must know better than anyone what are the core ideas and principals of his work that no one must tamper with, and where he can compromise.

I'm not feeling particularly optimistic, tbh. I'm just debating out of boredom and for its own sake at this point. I've donated a AAA game's amount of money to this project, and the response to my mild criticism in this thread was my main discord account getting banned and getting kicked off and refunded on SS. If I found this game today as opposed to 2.5 years ago, and the most recent pages were 90% negativity about the dev, and there was dumb shit like the Patreon rant in the game? I never would have supported it. So I can't help but think future growth is going to be stunted either way because the game isn't what it used to be, which is going to continue to be blamed on piracy, which is going to continue tensions with this site, which is going to continue to leak into the game and continue to make the situation worse in a neverending cycle. But hey, maybe this is all just shitty ramblings, the fuck do I know about game development and marketing? I'm just a dumbass debate pervert software dev who got lucky with an app.

I think at this point LiL is fine on itself without much external advertisment.

If he wants to maintain his current patron base, sure. But you're forgetting that his explicit goal is to make as much as (and more than, I'm sure) Summertime Saga - 6x what he's currently at. And again, good luck doing that without F95, whether it's 40% or 90%.

As for the idea of advertising games on 4ch - imo it's too much unpredictable due to its nature.

You can't advertise shit on 4chan, they'll tear you apart. I was talking about word of mouth.

 

[Black Raven]

If he wants to maintain his current patron base, sure. But you're forgetting that his explicit goal is to make as much as (and more than, I'm sure) Summertime Saga - 6x what he's currently at. And again, good luck doing that without F95, whether it's 40% or 90%.

Yes because that 63k goal is obviously a realistic goal that Selebus actually hopes to reach.

 

[Black Raven]

Also does anyone know why the event of Chika inviting Sensei to the Onsen on Monday in the school hall is NOT listed any where in the game? Not in Main Events or Main Girls or Side Girls or even the LiL Wiki!

Not sure it really answers "why" but here is what the wiki says on that topic :

The scene in which this occurs ("day272") autoplays on the first school day after

You must be registered to see the links

, which should be a Monday. It doesn't technically count as an Event, so it doesn't have a proper name and isn't in Chika's list of Events

 

[vehemental]

Yes because that 63k goal is obviously a realistic goal that Selebus actually hopes to reach.

You and I agree it's unrealistic, but think about it this way: if that WAS his goal, wouldn't that perfectly explain his current behavior and the amount of butthurt he has over seeing his growth stagnate in the last few months? If you were only being paid 1/6 of what you thought you should be, wouldn't you also think that was "harm"?

I'm sure he'd even deny it if you asked him. "Of course it's a joke!" - because anything otherwise would make him look greedy as hell. But since he's acting in the exact way as if it were the case, I think it's a lot more likely than you think.

Also look at how he worded it - "If Summertime Saga can make this much, so can I" - that makes it almost sound reasonable, no? Maybe hinting he doesn't have a high opinion of it, and wonders why it makes so much more money than him? If it wasn't reasonable, and SS was very obviously a game that far more people would enjoy, wouldn't it be more likely to be written as something sarcastic like "Summertime Saga is totally within our reach, right guys?" And even then it still might not be an actual joke.

 

[Solemnlament]

Alright.. I've gotta overcome my fears to play this game, instead of being heavily traumatized! Let's do this!

 

[Wardtnaci]

Not sure it really answers "why" but here is what the wiki says on that topic :

LiL Wiki said:
The scene in which this occurs ("day272") autoplays on the first school day after

You must be registered to see the links

, which should be a Monday. It doesn't technically count as an Event, so it doesn't have a proper name and isn't in Chika's list of Events

Well that's unfortunate. That means it's not replay-able at all. You'll see it once through normal playthrough and that's it...
This will maybe put a damper on crustlord12's Replay All Mod since its not an event and will be skipped by the Mod. How's that going BTW?

 

[Black Raven]

wouldn't that perfectly explain his current behavior and the amount of butthurt he has over seeing his growth stagnate in the last few months?

That's where i disagree here. I don't recall seeing him butthurt about stagnating. He was making 10k/month then following the patreon dumbfuckery he had to start from scratch with SubscribeStar. He was butthurt about making less than he used to.

Also i went back to find the announcement that he made when he reached 10k on SS :

It took a year to recover from the Patreon fiasco but we've finally made it back to the 10k mark! Thank you all so much for believing in both me as well as my game. The next goal is the ultra realistic 63k mark.

That really give me a vibe of "i got back to where i was and i'm happy about it" and not so much "i need more, MORE *drools*"

 

[vehemental]

That's where i disagree here. I don't recall seeing him butthurt about stagnating. He was making 10k/month then following the patreon dumbfuckery he had to start from scratch with SubscribeStar. He was butthurt about making less than he used to.

I'm talking about his behavior right now. He made it back to 10k a while ago, and it was even earlier than you think because a number of people bought Annual Passes. He obviously thought he would keep growing on Patreon, and now he thinks he should keep growing on SS.

That really give me a vibe of "i got back to where i was and i'm happy about it" and not so much "i need more, MORE *drools*"

It doesn't give any vibe at all. The "I need more" part comes from his current rabid fixation on destroying this thread because he sees it as a barrier to his success instead of seeing it as the biggest single source of his patrons.

 

[Black Raven]

I'm talking about his behavior right now. He made it back to 10k a while ago, and it was even earlier than you think because a number of people bought Annual Passes. He obviously thought he would keep growing on Patreon, and now he thinks he should keep growing on SS.

I mean of course he'd like to keep growing as much as possible, doesn't mean he actually expect he'll ever reach 63k.
(it's quite likely he feels like he deserves it more than Summertime Saga though, i'll give you that)

It doesn't give any vibe at all. The "I need more" part comes from his current rabid fixation on destroying this thread because he sees it as a barrier to his success instead of seeing it as the biggest single source of his patrons.

F95 was definitely a huge factor in building up his playerbase and subs but as of right now it has a negative impact on the game. Selebus has been losing subs because of the instant leaks and did the CP as a countermeasure, hoping they would fall under rule 7 and therefore would not be allowed here.

So again, he's mad about his subs count going down, not stagnating.

 

[Throwing Pumpkins]

*Snip*

F95 was definitely a huge factor in building up his playerbase and subs but as of right now it has a negative impact on the game. Selebus has been losing subs because of the instant leaks and did the CP as a countermeasure, hoping they would fall under rule 7 and therefore would not be allowed here.

So again, he's mad about his subs count going down, not stagnating.

How do we know that fast leaks are a result of patron loss? I'm a subscriber because I want his game to continue, and the leaks have been irrelevant to me. I have, however, left the Discord because of the behavior of his community and mod team. I've also seen people citing his own behavior as well as that of the mod team and community for no longer supporting him. Granted, it's a small sample size, as I certainly don't know everyone that has unsubbbed, but I don't think we can just conclude that F95 is responsible, especially since it has always been a factor affecting the game.

That said, I don't personally have any problems with Selebus myself, all of our interactions have been very pleasant, and he has always been understanding and patient with me, but there have definitely been complaints about his behavior from others as of late. It's pretty easy to miss outside of the sub-communities surrounding his game, though.

 

[vehemental]

F95 was definitely a huge factor in building up his playerbase and subs but as of right now it has a negative impact on the game. Selebus has been losing subs because of the instant leaks and did the CP as a countermeasure, hoping they would fall under rule 7 and therefore would not be allowed here.

So again, he's mad about his subs count going down, not stagnating.

You just posted the announcement about him making it back to 10k a few months ago, and he's at 10k right now. That's literally stagnation, he's not losing subs.

Moreover, let's take his "40% of his subs came from F95" stat at face value and assume that's the current situation - for this thread to actually have a truly negative effect on the game, it would have had to have lost that 40% of its current subs and more. Do you understand now? All of the revenue the subs from this site generated him in the past would have to be wiped out too. And out of all the subs that didn't come from F95, some of them signed up because of the actions of someone who found it through here, who then referred it to that person or who posted it to a website for them to find. All of that influence and more has to be wiped away as well. None of that is happening.

Every single one of his subs decides every month whether they want to continue or not - maintaining his current sub count isn't a trivial matter. So maybe he's just not growing but his long time subs are staying, but I think the more likely situation is that he IS growing (perhaps attracting a different audience with the... "CP") but losing some of his long time subs at the same time because of his behavior.

 

[Black Raven]

How do we know that fast leaks are a result of patron loss?

Well we can't know for sure, i'm mostly basing this on claims by Selebus, after all. There was a time when the timing of the leaks were inconsistent, sometimes it was super fast, sometimes it only got leaked a few days before public release. And according to Sel it makes a difference on the subs number.

but I don't think we can just conclude that F95 is responsible, especially since it has always been a factor affecting the game.

I'm not claiming that F95 is the only reason for the subs to go down, just that at this point in time F95's impact on LiL's subs is negative.

 

[Black Raven]

You just posted the announcement about him making it back to 10k a few months ago, and he's at 10k right now. That's literally stagnation, he's not losing subs.

I think he went down and then back up again thanks to the CP.

(perhaps attracting a different audience with the... "CP")

I don't know about the CP bringing a new public...I mean have you seen Ami, Sana or Miku ? Sure they're high schoolers but, you know. Pretty sure that public was already there. The loli tag was always there as far as i know. Also a lot of the people that are playing LiL are not doing so for the lewds and stuff but for the story. If one just wants to jerk off there are many many games that are better suited than LiL.

Moreover, let's take his "40% of his subs came from F95" stat at face value and assume that's the current situation - for this thread to actually have a truly negative effect on the game, it would have had to have lost that 40% of its current subs and more. Do you understand now? All of the revenue the subs from this site generated him in the past would have to be wiped out too. That just isn't happening.

Not what i'm saying. I agree that if you factor in all the money that Selebus made thanks to F95 historically it will take many months for the overall impact to become negative. Doesn't disprove the current impact being negative.