drandy86

New Member
Jan 28, 2019
5
14
The unfortunate part is that literally every single person involved, either in this thread or on discord, just wants a good game, and all we have to look forward to in future updates is more self-indulgent, immersion-breaking vitriol in the form of one of the characters going on another petulant fourth-wall-breaking rant to address more of the dev's personal grievances. I miss the pre-remake days :cautious:
He does have a tendency to cut off his nose to spite his face.
 

JohnnyRazer

Newbie
Sep 15, 2020
73
138
On a side note, I'm still opposed to enforcing your vision on the developer in many ways (except some technical). Artistic vision and all that shit. I mean if Selebus wants to write his fourth-wall-breaking rants, that's entirely up to him - this is his own game, no point in arguing about it, whether he intends to go up or down the line (especially because he is quite a stubborn guy imo). I personally liked them, they were one of the minor points of attraction for me, at least untill rework (because I just haven't read what's after).
tl;dr Better going down in a personalised demise, than suffer in a clusterfuck of dozens of contradicting influencing opinions from "fans" who have literally no idea about developing a game and just want to scratch their fetishes.

I'm also sceptical about this 95% too, this is pretentious as fuck. But not less that 50%, I think. I learned about the game from itch, but I'm one of the rarer kind, heh.

As much as I love 4chan, relying on it's denizens'... "educated"... "opinions" is ehhhhhh, probably unwise, but sure is fun to read. :sneaky:
 

vehemental

Member
Jun 4, 2017
391
1,624
On a side note, I'm still opposed to enforcing your vision on the developer in many ways (except some technical). Artistic vision and all that shit. I mean if Selebus wants to write his fourth-wall-breaking rants, that's entirely up to him - this is his own game, no point in arguing about it, whether he intends to go up or down the line (especially because he is quite a stubborn guy imo). I personally liked them, they were one of the minor points of attraction for me, at least untill rework (because I just haven't read what's after).
tl;dr Better going down in a personalised demise, than suffer in a clusterfuck of dozens of contradicting influencing opinions from "fans" who have literally no idea about developing a game and just want to scratch their fetishes.
If you haven't read the rework, you haven't read the scene I'm talking about. Once you do, if you can't recognize that objectively, any artist airing such a personal grievance in such an unveiled and narrative-jarring way detracts from the artistic integrity of the work as a whole (sorry, "makes it worse", for those coming from the discord ;))... I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It's amateurish, and not in the charming way that the game used to be amateurish. Saying something like "doing this one thing in particular is dumb" isn't going to lead to a "clusterfuck of dozens of contradicting opinions".

Take the song Ticks and Leeches by Tool for example. Tool was undergoing a heated legal battle with the label they had been signed to at the time, and the song was an expression of their frustration, but it was so thematically consistent with the rest of their work and non-specific that it blended in so perfectly with the rest of the album that you'd never know the backstory - you'd never know there even was a backstory - without knowing that specific piece of information. It even served as a narrative device when combined with the next track, effectively saying that the solution to getting caught up in vitriolic, interpersonal anger was a return to the first principles of humanity, healing the rift between the body and the mind through ego death, and rediscovering the divinity and infinite possibilities of human existence, all through psychedelics.

As much as I love 4chan, relying on it's denizens'... "educated"... "opinions" is ehhhhhh, probably unwise, but sure is fun to read. :sneaky:
Yes, it WOULD be silly to rely on their opinions for anything, but that's the kind of place this game would have to rely on for exposure to new players if this thread went away. Do you see my intention for sharing those posts now?
 
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KnowNoHope

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2020
1,104
1,427
Just log out for about 2 days and went back with some questions.
Can anyone explain why he posts this bc he usually posts this kind of information about the character on discord rather than on f95?
And can someone summary the drama for me too much comment :v
so after selebus's post he made I think like 2 other posts being a shit lord here and he also offered discounts on stuff apparently to come here and make fake accounts to flood the thread with moronic simping. (see the following quoted individual) the mods froze the thread and deleted (or there was some time delay effect idk) all the posts after the initial sel outburst it seems and did it pretty fast before it actually became a problem.

edit: this all happened like within an hour or less

It must be nice to believe something like this but you couldn't be further from the truth, atleast half the people who browse these threads leak the content to spite Sel at this point and people have been calling Sam's post "mature" but it's nothing but gaslighting and victim blaming, if they truly cared they would remove the latest releases and the care packages but they haven't and here we are, I don't expect anything to change in these threads, no matter how hard Sel and the discord homies try.

Well putting that aside there is something else I would like to comment on, for awhile now I've noticed people contiuing to say this place is responsible for 95% of the game's growth and sucess, a sentiment like that maybe nice for the pirates here to make themselves feel better about leaking exclsive content and what not but it's not true it's nowhere near true, it can't be denied that Sel DID come here at one point when Patreon was screwing him over and asked people to move over to SS, which people did at the time, but I honestly think some of you are coming across as very arrogant to say that you're "95%" reponsible for this game growth, I argue 45% is a much better percentage and even that may still be generous, keep in mind at the point the patreon stuff was going down Sel's discord was very active and clearly with everything going on lately it STILL is active and even without the discord, people still saw Sel's request to move over to SS through patreon itself.

Well, like I said before, nothing will change here, espically now that the mods don't care about loli content but it's still very fascinating to watch as this drama continues to unfold.
 

ocworld

Newbie
Apr 10, 2018
28
30
i am not a pirate but it feels at some point instead of development he start only working on this care packages full year since i even not seeing his post of taking a break from development or roadmap it simple the sign that he slowly lose interest
 

JohnnyRazer

Newbie
Sep 15, 2020
73
138
If you haven't read the rework, you haven't read the scene I'm talking about. Once you do, if you can't recognize that objectively, any artist airing such a personal grievance in such an unveiled and narrative-jarring way detracts from the artistic integrity of the work as a whole (sorry, "makes it worse", for those coming from the discord ;))... I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It's amateurish, and not in the charming way that the game used to be amateurish. Saying something like "doing this one thing in particular is dumb" isn't going to lead to a "clusterfuck of dozens of contradicting opinions".
I'm really not a picky reader, but if what you say is true then probably even I will notice it. I'll be re-reading LiL from scratch in the following months, so I'm really curious to see if it's that badly misplaced, because previous ones were more or less moderate to me.

On the latter, I see your point and I most certainly don't want to say that expressing your critique or disapproval is bad or unnecessary, but there's not so much you can and should do to enforce your vision. Say your opinion, but after that it mostly falls on the developer's shoulders (or what's above them) to discern shitty ramblings from sound advices, and if he can't - well you tried, not your fault and no sense pushing further. He must know better than anyone what are the core ideas and principals of his work that no one should tamper with, and where he can compromise.

Of course it's from my little experience, but it's less painful to watch a dev who fails, but is true to himself and his vision. Something like "Yeah, I'm a dick, so what, like it or not, I'm not changing my ways". On the contrary it's really hard to watch soft good guys, who are overwhelmed by a million obscure requests, who answer to every whim of the community. Of course, these are two polars and life is somewhere in between, but I place Selebus closer to the first one. As I see it, despite his increasing toxicity (but who am I to judge lmao) and some questionable ingame moments, the base game and plot are the same and probably will be for some time. But I too don't like where this is going and can only hope that Sel knows when and where to stop - a rare quality in these days. I recall, that so far he managed, but today I was unpleasantly surprised.

Yes, it WOULD be silly to rely on their opinions for anything, but that's the kind of place this game would have to rely on for exposure to new players if this thread went away. Do you see my intention for sharing those posts now?
Eh, kinda yes, kinda no. Arguable. I think at this point LiL is fine on itself without much external advertisment. And probably even should be, because even this not very wide popularity brought a lot of trouble with Patreon, and I'm not sure I want to see what kind of misfortune can bring even wider recognition. But that's just me.

As for the idea of advertising games on 4ch - imo it's too much unpredictable due to its nature. Something might blow, but mostly not, and you have very little control over it. I think, intentional advertising there would more likely backfire you in the face (somewhat like it was with VNDB) and the idea of Selebus fighiting with anon mischiefs in addition to this f95 drama doesn't attract me.
 
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barglenarglezous

Engaged Member
Sep 5, 2020
2,466
4,761
i am not a pirate but it feels at some point instead of development he start only working on this care packages full year since i even not seeing his post of taking a break from development or roadmap it simple the sign that he slowly lose interest
He only comes here when he wants to throw shade at people who hang out here. He limits status updates to the Discord.

There IS a roadmap on the Discord for the next 5 updates.
 
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hcguy

Member
Aug 29, 2019
306
839
i am not a pirate but it feels at some point instead of development he start only working on this care packages full year since i even not seeing his post of taking a break from development or roadmap it simple the sign that he slowly lose interest
This is absolutely not true. Selebus pretty consistently delivers on his two week per update schedule, unless he a) is doing a particularly large update (like the last few updates, and the next one) where he goes to a one-per-month update, or b) he has something that he needs to devote other time to, such as his wedding and honeymoon, which is why there is a current delay. These are always communicated, and the next release will be 3/15, at which point he is going back to a every two weeks schedule.
 

ComplexOne2

Newbie
Jul 25, 2017
98
107
so after selebus's post he made I think like 2 other posts being a shit lord here and he also offered discounts on stuff apparently to come here and make fake accounts to flood the thread with moronic simping. (see the following quoted individual) the mods froze the thread and deleted (or there was some time delay effect idk) all the posts after the initial sel outburst it seems and did it pretty fast before it actually became a problem.

edit: this all happened like within an hour or less
You've certainly got an interesting view there for someone who failed to acknowledge any of my points and just gave a very weak facepalm react.
 

LooLoo Baloo

Member
Mar 15, 2021
304
1,370
Oh, can i grab a copy of that please, last one i had ran out of date.
Lessons in Love 0.29.0: Total Events: 0/19 Complete
Main Events: 0/5 Complete
Yumi Events: 0/3 Complete
Tsuneyo Events: 0/3 Complete
Miku Events: 0/2 Complete
Otoha Events: 0/3 Complete
Niki Events: 0/3 Complete
Picture Messages: 0/2 Complete
Headpats: 0/1 Complete
Programming: 0/19 Complete
Proofreading/Editing: 0/19 Complete
Estimated Release Date: 3/15/23

Lessons in Love 0.30.0 Part 1: Total Events: 0/12 Complete
Chika Events: 0/3 Complete
Maya Events: 0/3 Complete
Molly Events: 0/4 Complete
Yuki Events: 0/2 Complete
Animations: 0/2 Complete
Programming: 0/12 Complete
Proofreading/Editing: 0/12 Complete
Estimated Release Date: 4/1/23

Lessons in Love 0.30.0 Part 2: Total Events: 0/14 Complete
Noriko Events: 0/4 Complete
Kirin Events: 0/4 Complete
Sara Events: 0/3 Complete
Tsubasa Events: 0/3 Complete
Programming: 0/14 Complete
Proofreading/Editing: 0/14 Complete
Estimated Release Date: 4/15/23

Lessons in Love 0.31.0 Part 1: Total Events: 0/13 Complete
Ami Events: 0/3 Complete
Touka Events: 0/4 Complete
Kaori Events: 0/3 Complete
Rika Events: 0/3 Complete
Character Profile: 0/1 Complete
Programming: 0/13 Complete
Proofreading/Editing: 0/13 Complete
Estimated Release Date: 5/1/23

Lessons in Love 0.31.0 Part 2: Total Events: 0/13 Complete
Main Events: 0/5 Complete
Makoto Events: 0/4 Complete
Nodoka Events: 0/4 Complete
Picture Messages: 0/2 Complete
Programming: 0/13 Complete
Proofreading/Editing: 0/13 Complete
Estimated Release Date: 5/15/23
 

Bingoogus

Engaged Member
Sep 5, 2021
3,190
7,951
Lessons in Love 0.29.0: Total Events: 0/19 Complete
Main Events: 0/5 Complete
Yumi Events: 0/3 Complete
Tsuneyo Events: 0/3 Complete
Miku Events: 0/2 Complete
Otoha Events: 0/3 Complete
Niki Events: 0/3 Complete
Picture Messages: 0/2 Complete
Headpats: 0/1 Complete
Programming: 0/19 Complete
Proofreading/Editing: 0/19 Complete
Estimated Release Date: 3/15/23

Lessons in Love 0.30.0 Part 1: Total Events: 0/12 Complete
Chika Events: 0/3 Complete
Maya Events: 0/3 Complete
Molly Events: 0/4 Complete
Yuki Events: 0/2 Complete
Animations: 0/2 Complete
Programming: 0/12 Complete
Proofreading/Editing: 0/12 Complete
Estimated Release Date: 4/1/23

Lessons in Love 0.30.0 Part 2: Total Events: 0/14 Complete
Noriko Events: 0/4 Complete
Kirin Events: 0/4 Complete
Sara Events: 0/3 Complete
Tsubasa Events: 0/3 Complete
Programming: 0/14 Complete
Proofreading/Editing: 0/14 Complete
Estimated Release Date: 4/15/23

Lessons in Love 0.31.0 Part 1: Total Events: 0/13 Complete
Ami Events: 0/3 Complete
Touka Events: 0/4 Complete
Kaori Events: 0/3 Complete
Rika Events: 0/3 Complete
Character Profile: 0/1 Complete
Programming: 0/13 Complete
Proofreading/Editing: 0/13 Complete
Estimated Release Date: 5/1/23

Lessons in Love 0.31.0 Part 2: Total Events: 0/13 Complete
Main Events: 0/5 Complete
Makoto Events: 0/4 Complete
Nodoka Events: 0/4 Complete
Picture Messages: 0/2 Complete
Programming: 0/13 Complete
Proofreading/Editing: 0/13 Complete
Estimated Release Date: 5/15/23
Thanks, any chance i can grab the image file version of it though? I keep the image in my LiL folder for quick reference.
 

Black Raven

Member
May 4, 2020
146
232
About the impact of F95 on LiL, here's a quote from Sel :
Selebus said:
Especially when the last survey I held only had like 40% of my subscribers coming from [F95] (That was admittedly a long time ago though)
Anyway there is no denying that F95 helped the game prosper quite a bit, regardless of the actual number.
There is also no denying that the instant leaks hurt the game nowadays.

I understand Selebus being angry at F95 about the "OP edit fiasco", especially since it happened during the patreon bullshit which was a particularly stressful time for him (like he was making 10k/month and suddenly 0, for no valid reason, imagine that).
And sure he could have taken the high road back then or even let bygones be bygones after a while, but he didn't and things escalated from there.

Bit of a shame, really. But eh, at least we got some quality drama because of it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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