- Sep 5, 2020
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Isn't Shiori also referenced as Nodoka's sister at some point?
- Aug 23, 2023
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Evil twin. Nodoka says that when she's in insane mode it's actually Shiori.
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Eh... I'm not sure if I'm seeing things the way you're seeing things fully. Of course there are a lot of ways to interpret things without being given the answer directly, and a lot of the story is purposefully left vague and up to interpretation, or simply isn't answered yet. But if the game is begging for you to read into it because it has the answers, then seemingly straight dialogue from an otherwise mysterious character is not where we should be poking holes. Regardless of exactly what she means by "didn't agree to this," she didn't agree to it. Your own example is seemingly what happens in Untitled. Whatever reasons she's there for, she's there, then sees what's happening, and she doesn't agree with it. And the information we have about her can only point us in so many directions until we have more.
I don't agree that teenage-fucking monster is 'bad' from an inherent or objective standpoint in the game either, as that's clearly a good or neutral thing in some characters' eyes. HOPE is all about impregnating vessels. But the point was that people's ideas of fixing someone and 'good' are different. It's abundantly clear that Himawari and someone like 79, HOPE, etc. are different in that regard, and that's the author's intent in writing her to be appalled. It's not the author tricking us. Not unless Himawari is revealed to be evil, or something.
The game does break the 4th wall and seem aware of its own 'non-reality' but that doesn't discredit anything else shown or stated in the game. If you're referring to characters telling us the only way out is to stop playing, then yeah, that's true for us and in real life. But does that negate what we know or are told about the world having existed and almost certainly being able to continue without us, knowing that the player and current version of the character we primarily see the world through can isn't necessary for the world and characters to exist in-universe? I highly doubt it.
I'm not sure if you're referring to hermeneutical reading more as a methodology for adding context and information to reach new conclusions, or more traditionally as interpreting scriptural or canonical themes and messages, in this case of the story/game. The first is kind of what we've been doing the whole time (others for a long time, me for a couple weeks) and the second is just one piece of the whole of the first. I think trying to use a specific framework to fully understand and question the game might trip you up, though. Especially in trying to apply theological or philosophical perspectives to things where the exact influence and perspective is unclear, or is an amalgamation.
Oh shit, I didn't even realize. My GOAT
- Aug 27, 2022
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I do love when NiB is referenced yet actually using it as a crutch is not recommended since not noly is it incomplete but it will aso be re-written.Praise be
- Sep 5, 2020
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That definitely recontextualizes the event where manic Nodoka lures Akira outside of the boundary and he meets Himawari.
- Aug 23, 2023
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Yes, I thought that myself as well. But unfortunately Himawari does not regard her as a coworker, as she should have for her Shiori.
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I think it's more likely that Nodoka stumbled upon Shiori (Himawari's coworker) just a month ago, and that's what Himawari's referencing in "scientific research". Then Nodoka kept the name "Shiori" from that encounter, just as she does to all sorts of fragmented information. But who knows... It could very well be that Shiori directed her there, and even Nodoka is a part of their plans to interfere with this cycle.
- May 9, 2019
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Perhaps a sort of digression but I fully agree that Sel is a very deliberate writer. He just stuffed too many symbols and content and tried to confuse readers in every possible way. I basically considered LiL as a deranged piece of work at first but progressly I started to "grape the line"— There are themes always reoccuring and reiterating from different respectives for so many times that it started to get tedious.
As for those "Higher Powers", I would believe they are merely "machinery" and mirrors on the theatre as almost everything in LiL is more or less parodied and carnivalied. Even on itself as it's blatantly written "Non est deus" (There is no God or He is not God. Thus you must apply poetics rather than theology). I hold deep belief that everything here starts, pivots and ends on distorted figure Akira (and perhaps its corresponding in reality, the player, though I have yet to see more content on free will and agency of the players in LiL) and others are "interchangeable" (e.g. Maya—Sekai).
By the way apropos of those theological discussion, I in general see them simply as post-modernism cliches since there are really nothing worth talking about individually. Trite Dostoevskian ramble at best.
- May 27, 2020
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- Aug 23, 2023
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Thread got way too intellectual, so this is Maya wanting to have sex.
That is all.
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- Aug 20, 2021
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This Himawari discussion inspired me to make another render:
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- Aug 27, 2022
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Maya flirting is relationship goals
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Moonflare: "This thread is too intellectual."
Moonflare, but as a character drawn in Microsoft Paint that was cut from my Noriko fanfic due to budget and time constraints:
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- Sep 5, 2021
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- Aug 23, 2023
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This seems a lot like a preview to me
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- Jul 8, 2020
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- Sep 5, 2021
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Lmao, in Zuko's shot, Akira's head was weirdly small, and in your beach shot, it's weirdly large.
- Jul 8, 2020
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Well, it's the same situation as his "lower head", which is variable in size.
- Aug 20, 2021
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Yeah I dunno wtf is up with the character card I have of Akira. It doesn’t seem to match up precisely to what’s in the game fsr. I have one named ‘Sensei’ from the front page and another named ‘Akira’ that someone else posted awhile back on the thread when they updated some character cards (that’s the one I used).
Probably will try the card from the OP next time and see how it does.
I mean it in the sense of Macrobius' Commentary on the Dream of Scipio. So the latter. However, the whole point of developing a hermeneutic is to try and untangle an esoteric text that isn't hiding that it's a tangle of influences and perspectives. The danger is in being really careful and clear with the hermeneutics you are using, as very quickly everything can mean everything and your obscuring more than you're illuminating. I would disagree with you though in that we can absolutely tease out a couple of the lenses we should be using, even if we can't pin down an exact influence. I would argue that the following is all on the table:
- Literature / Literary Theory: Akira's specialty as a teacher. Nodoka's whole character.
- Poetry / Poetry Theory: Wakana's specialty as a teacher. A lot of plot hinges on poetry. Sel writing actual good poetry for a porn game (much harder than you think).
- Christin Theology: Agnostic on the denomination, but knowing enough about Christian Theology Sel knows more than just a gloss.
- Music Theory: I believe Sel is a band / Music cues in this game seem deeply important. But this is a blank spot for me, personally.
- Theater Theory: I guess this could be me being unable not to apply my own knowledge but it does feel like Sel is at least comfortable with Brecht
- Philosophy: I mean....
- "Occultism": I'm not sure that Sel is a practitioner or anything, but I've come across many small references to some ideas that are held in common between theosophy/thelma/chaos magic.
I'm not trying to say your incorrect. It's very possible you are. I just think the text is more open than her being a "hostage" and treating the text as more open, may lead to better theory crafting down the line. But I think there is a huge difference in her being pulled into that event on false preferences and her disagreeing with methods. Hell pretty much every season of the The Boys is predicated on eventually one of the gang going to Butcher "Hold up, I didn't agree to this." Yet they all are oriented to the same goal.
I'm just softly trying to push back against any reading that has a "good" or "evil" attached to it. Himawari might want to make sausages, but not a lot of people wanna see or going to like how sausage is made.
I mean, this is where I get really Brechtian. I don't know how else to read the line, "Some would say he's been through nothing at all." without that context. Meaning, he hasn't experienced anything, because Akira isn't real. He hasn't experienced anything. We, the player is the one doing all the experiencing, and we can leave at anytime.
- Dec 2, 2022
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I've brought this up before. I think Moyo drinking the bucket got her knocked up with Nao-chan.
On the stretch goal subject. Sel responded to a question about them being in game and not something like a care package. I know its selfish, but I want Akira to be part of these scenes if they are "cannon".
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