- Mar 11, 2019
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Damn Deskel.. you have been wanting to rant about Otoha for a while huh? XD let it out man, let it all out.
- Sep 29, 2019
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Nah, I'll hold the actions she chooses to commit, against her. She was never forced to do any of this, let alone continue to do so.
Also the relationship is still Unhealthy. Otoha is toxic as fuck, and as far as I can tell, she's only with Rin so that others can't be:
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- Sep 29, 2019
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I wasn't kidding, this is literally what comes to mind when Otoha gets brought up:
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The recent beach update, kind of just solidified this for me.
If you read the whole line of their relationship from the beginning, it was obvious from the beginning
that is, this is a logical result of how the relationship began and how it continued until the moment with the kiss (unfortunately, due to technical reasons, I cannot provide screenshots)
It’s also worth looking at Rin, who also put pressure on Otoha
So, in the end, both are guilty, but only Otoha takes all the blows
- Apr 24, 2021
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It has to be her before-after hypocrisy, and maybe plus the fact that everyone loves Rin. All that paint her an easy target to be made fun of. It's a little bit like this:
However in all honesty I absolutely do not hate or dislike her a single bit because of how she poorly handles what's on her plate. Among the sea of neighboring teenagers who all want to fuck the same teacher’s brain out, all her struggles in sexuality and/or choice of ideal partner type while balancing with her unsupportive parents are much more real and excusable (not saying the consequences of poor handling won't come, but excusable none the less). Otoha simply is someone who doesn’t know herself and what she wants well, and can only figure out and hopefully improve by making bad choices. What she's been doing, despite being shitty, is imo well within the confine of a normal fucking teenage girl.
The bad influence not only comes from Sensei, which makes her think "It's okay that I also do this" or "Niki definitely is suggesting something right now because all teachers are like this", soaking in an environment where all your classmates want to fuck teacher (and more than a quarter of them are already fucked) surely wears off her sanity by slow attrition, like during World of Lines.
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But the most determining factors for me are a) she's cute
and b) if I haven't passionately hated Sensei's relationship handling style, I am going to be super lenient to Otoha.
- Sep 29, 2019
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That's a little delusional.
There's literally no good excuse for this, and the only pressure Rin put upon Otoha is due to Otoha leading her on since the beginning:
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Also, Otoha takes all the blows? Rin got hit, cried who knows how much, and got cheated on. On top of this, she's being used for "nudes" by her girlfriend who doesn't even love her... Otoha is merely struggling with her own shittiness at best. Rin doesn't deserve any of the blows, tbh.
I struggle to see how one could actually defend Otoha's actions at this point. I mean they can try, but, yeah, not really going to work if you actually know the context. Liking her despite her faults is fine, some of the worst people ever are the most popular, but if you think she's being judged unfairly, just because you like her, imma tell you that's a little delusional. I'm judging her fairly.
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- Jul 18, 2022
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Now, I'm a bit curious. You previously said you do not believe Nodoka to be "that bad." Then whom, between Nodoka and Otoha, do you consider being a worse person, in general?
To me, personally, Nodoka is the more interesting character, no doubt. She feels connected to the "deeper" lore of LiL. And that's what I value above most things in this game.
I don't care about Otoha much; she isn't very compelling. Then again, I don't actively dislike her. She has some engaging moments. As one would expect, I think she is a shitty person. Fortunately for Nodoka (and Sekai, Sensei), when it comes to fiction, there's no problem being an asshole as long as you are intriguing. Unfortunately for Otoha, she merely isn't as entertaining as them. Her struggles aren't that unique. She comes off as your average selfish prick.
Honorable mention: Haruka, who is amusing in a different sense. As a clown (seriously, I've laughed hard at some of her scenes).
That's to be expected, you can't please everyone always and there are a lot of things that could affect that within the game.
Good spot, I didn't even notice because of the contrast or lack thereof.
Sounds like you tripped the protection against malicious saves, which yes, is a thing. I do believe there is a way to do it without this, but I'm not entirely sure of that as I don't use save editing myself (if I have an issue that would require save edits, namely red events or wrong choices known to cause red events, I start over).
Because of her actions in the later part of the story. She's shown herself to be extremely possessive and unwilling to let her partner do things that she herself will not abstain from doing.
Actually, though this is kind of true, the real reason is Rin is still on the girls side of her bisexuality and has only really swung toward even the slightest bit of interest in guys once. If she was interested to the same degree in Sensei as she was in Otoha and Chika, we would have already gotten somewhere before Otoha was an issue.
That is not and never was a problem, in fact, it's thanks to the large cast that he can alternate groups of girls to avoid burn out. Remember, the story comes first in this game, so we get Rin when it is time within the story, when she is ready to actually swing toward Sensei, and no sooner.
And also essentially cheating on Rin, which while not okay in the first place, is made worse by expecting loyalty from Rin.
I've already done this several times over, it's not that bad.
To be undeservedly fair to Otoha, I think she's also extremely impulsive and very weak to those impulsive moments, which got to her with the cheating. I mean, sure, she could have fully intended to cheat and still expect loyalty from Rin, but I am getting a sense that kiss was a heat of the moment impulse and she simply had no control. Also, at least she's self aware, some people and characters like her are not.
She's done so much damage and the only reason those two are still together, besides story reasons, is because her partner is the type that may just take it without resistance.
Yep, she could have rejected Rin, she could have been good to Rin after accepting her, but she did neither. This relationship is a ticking time bomb and time is running low. This is getting set to blow up massively, we might just see Rin in her worst state yet.
No, Rin had no idea any of this was going to happen, she took a blind leap and landed in a pot starting to boil. It wasn't until after they actually got together that Otoha started showing her negative tendencies, so it is 100% on Otoha. Also, Rin was kind of blinded with her rejection from Chika and desire for a partner that just so happened to, unfortunately, fall on Otoha.
This is true, what Otoha has done is well within the realm of normal for a teen. They are at a point where they can be extremely impulsive and may not know the full extent of the effect choices they make can have, so they can be much more free with how they act due to not being careful of said consequences.It has to be her before-after hypocrisy, and maybe plus the fact that everyone loves Rin. All that paint her an easy target to be made fun of. It's a little bit like this:
View attachment 2907479
However in all honesty I absolutely do not hate or dislike her a single bit because of how she poorly handles what's on her plate. Among the sea of neighboring teenagers who all want to fuck the same teacher’s brain out, all her struggles in sexuality and/or choice of ideal partner type while balancing with her unsupportive parents are much more real and excusable (not saying the consequences of poor handling won't come, but excusable none the less). Otoha simply is someone who doesn’t know herself and what she wants well, and can only figure out and hopefully improve by making bad choices. What she's been doing, despite being shitty, is imo well within the confine of a normal fucking teenage girl.
The bad influence not only comes from Sensei, which makes her think "It's okay that I also do this" or "Niki definitely is suggesting something right now because all teachers are like this", soaking in an environment where all your classmates want to fuck teacher (and more than a quarter of them are already fucked) surely wears off her sanity by slow attrition, like during World of Lines.
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But the most determining factors for me are a) she's cute
I probably have a Rin brain
Yep, ultimately, even with what I said above this, Otoha is guilty of several things and those things serve to build potential for hurting another character. I just hope she learns from what I see as a now inevitable negative end to the Rintoha relationship. I don't hate Otoha, she's one of my favorite characters, I'm just disappointed in her as if disappointed in a friend who messed up bad.
I would still say Nodoka is worse after the Yumi thing. If Otoha ever does something like that to Rin, I will flip a table, I swear. Still, Otoha's actions and the amount of in universe time going by before they come to a climax could serve to make the impact so much worse than the Yumi thing could even hope to be.
This creates a huge problem because by paying attention to everyone a little bit, we have too many problems that are stuck at the escalation stage and will be there for another year or two until Seleb remembers (and maybe even forgets)
The situation of Molly and Sensei, which has been hanging for 1.5 years and has not moved forward
What's up with Yasu and Sekai in the scene that was in 0.28?
In addition, there are characters that, well, just don’t need the same Osako
What about Yumi and Tsuneya after the reboot (well, Yumi is clear, but Tsuneya is also not certain
Again, the line of Maya and Kaori, which hung at the riddle stage
There are still moments when there is a line, but it is miraculously simply forgotten. The same illness of Chinami, which was one update and then simply disappeared
Having entered 35 characters, it is impossible to catch an adequate amount of time for everyone
It's either that or Sel burns out and we never see a resolution to most if not all of said problems. As it is now, the resolution is only delayed, not stopped from coming entirely. We are at a point in the overall story where things are still escalating anyway and we will be until the dark route peaks. Since we aren't yet even in that section yet, there is still time to build.
None of what happened in past updates has disappeared, everything has its time to be updated. We will still see what is happening to Chinami, for example, and that was already looking to be a dark route plot point.
The term adequate in this case is subjective, what is adequate for the developer or one player won't be adequate for another player, you can't please everyone and even trying will just displease everyone. Some people don't think the amount of H content is adequate, they want more, while others want to maintain the focus on the story. If either side gets what they want, the other is displeased.
- Sep 29, 2019
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Definitely Otoha. Like it's not even close. At least for now.
Nodoka has at least done things that are "good" for others:
- Taken care of her mother:
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- Worried about and helped Otoha get some freedom:
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- Tested Sensei's dangerousness for everyone:
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- Tried to defend Futaba from Yumi, and was willing to be hurt in her stead:
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- Gave Sensei an outlet:
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- Helped Rin get fingered:
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- Etc
Even the Blackmailing Yumi stuff is understandable in my opinion, since Yumi mercilessly tormented one of the most important and nicest people in Nodoka's life for who knows how long, just because she could.
Not to say Nodoka isn't a shitty person at times. Nodoka's actual shittiness just seems unintentional:
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Honestly, where I'd place Nodoka overall is still up in the air though. I can see her intending to protect everyone (or at least those she cares about) from Sensei by being his outlet:
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Nodoka is also definitely far more interesting.
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- Apr 7, 2023
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those previews are nice
the miku dressing as penny parker is interesting guess some spiderman dialogue or sumtin
the mac tonight moon man i guess is noriko? kinda nutty choice of costume
- Sep 29, 2019
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Pesonally, Otoha being aware of her own shittiness, and not trying to fix it, makes it so much worse for me.
I also could chalk up the kiss to an "oopsy" if she wasn't still pining over Niki:
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I cannot believe I'm about to defend the girl lowest on my list from day one, but here it goes. Just because Yumi was terrible to some of the other girls, especially Futaba, that doesn't justify what Nodoka put her through.
Also, well before that, we did get a closer look at why Yumi is how she is. She means well, she just doesn't know how to express it, hostility is all she really knows outside of certain situations. It's like Futaba with the body size thing, she ridicules Futaba for her appearance, but her goal isn't to cause Futaba emotional distress, it's genuinely out of concern and she's just going about expressing that the wrong way.
She's still not justified in ridiculing Futaba or any of that stuff, but what Nodoka did to her was far worse, she literally made her touch herself in front of the man who stole a kiss without her consent (first kiss? I forgot) and allegedly did things far beyond what he is supposed to be allowed to do. At least Yumi didn't invade Futaba's privacy and make her do things completely out of her comfort zone and potentially traumatizing.
To me, it sounds more like she made a mistake with the kiss, and instead of owning it, decided to double down because she is so self absorbed that she can't face the fact that she messed up. I still think she's perfectly willing to cheat while keeping a tight leash on Rin, though. A sort of 'rules for thee, not for me' scenario.
From that second image, context suggests even she doesn't fully understand yet what happened with Niki, she just knows it did and doesn't see it as a major issue, which it really is because that's still cheating. Hence why she doesn't seem to regret it, if she doesn't see it as a big deal, she's going to see no reason to regret it even if it was a heat of the moment impulse she didn't intend to act on at the time. She's so blinded by what she wants, she doesn't see how getting what she wants by specific means hurts the people around her and just how badly they get hurt in the process.
HOPE forbid Rin ever finds out this happened, she's going to be seriously hurt, if not by the cheating itself, by the fact that Otoha wasn't straight with her about it. Staying silent is almost as bad as denying something happened in a case like this. Otoha seriously betrayed Rin here, possibly causing irreparable damage to their relationship.
- Sep 29, 2019
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I said "understandable". Not "justified". Nothing Nodoka did to Yumi was "justified", and nothing Yumi has done to anyone is "justified". What Nodoka did to Yumi was Vengeance:
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Yumi got off rather easy honestly. Just imagine what Nodoka could have done if she wanted.
I'm leaning more towards Otoha knowing how shitty she is, how much it's hurting and going to hurt others, and doesn't really care because she wants Niki to "make a woman" out of her:
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Btw, Foreshadowing:
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- Mar 15, 2023
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Yeah, that is the exact reason she won confession battle. Everybody can confess she is in love with Sensei, but only special one can confess she is a bitch
PS if you need a reason to hate Nodoka, look what has she done with poor Futaba in "Pg. 99"
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- Sep 29, 2019
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I can't really hate someone for not understanding others. I can hate what they've done though.
Nodoka truly seemed to not intend nor expect to hurt Futaba with the whole book thing:
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I think the biggest miscalculation on her part, was underestimating just how badly Yumi fucked up Futaba. Futaba is absolutely terrified of becoming "a target again" as she put it:
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I would also have to disagree with it being understandable since even Yumi never went that far. Keep in mind I am looking at the severity of each of their actions and making someone do as Nodoka had to Yumi seems more severe than mere words. Vengeance is just as bad as the act that caused it.
Yes, Yumi said some hurtful things, but she never made Futaba actually do something or did something to Futaba. This doesn't change that Yumi was in the wrong with Futaba, I'm only saying that the fact that Nodoka went into actions while Yumi only resorted to words makes Nodoka worse to me. I've been in Futaba's position plus being subjected to actions like Yumi, the actions perpetrated on me definitely had the bigger impact than the words thrown my way. About the only thing Nodoka could have done worse would be to actually assault Yumi or coerce Sensei into assaulting her and, if that's the last remaining thing on the list that is worse than what a character is already doing, that's pretty bad.
I'm definitely not contesting Otoha knows how bad she is as a person, she definitely knows and even admitted it. I'm just thinking the kiss may not have been planned from the start, just something she did on impulse, and that her lack of sense that there is something wrong with it is why she doesn't regret it, because she literally cannot see how her actions affect those around her, she's too focused on herself. This is still bad, just not in the same way as a premeditated action. Either way, it is still cheating on Rin, which is inexcusable and potentially extremely bad for Rin.
Honestly, yeah, I don't think we're getting anywhere with this, we'll just have to leave it at that and wait for further developments. I'm sure we'll see some effect the next time any of the above characters get an update to their character events. I just hope we're prepared for the potential fallout, this could get ugly real fast.
- Mar 15, 2023
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Well, I can assume Nodoka had good intentions. I can even assume that Nodoka made Futaba go through this to help her. But what i can not assume is that Nodoka doesn't know first thing about Futaba's insecurities. And Nodoka definetly capable of liying in Futaba's face, she is a psyco after all.
- Sep 29, 2019
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Yeah, I'll have to disagree with it both being not "understandable", and a few minutes of earned suffering somehow being worse than months to years of undeserved bullying plus probably a lifetime of fear and insecurity, and a damaged body.
I'm thinking you're forgetting what Yumi has actually done. Here's some of what's actually been shown:
- Made Futaba cry for fun:
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- Tried to steal Futaba's towel:
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- Has taken Futaba's books and desk hostage for no reason:
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- Pinned Futaba against a wall and threatened to kill her:
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- Etc
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Futaba seems to be so traumatized that she's absolutely terrified of being a target again:
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If you still haven't came around to my point of view, then yeah, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
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