Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.45.0] [Selebus]

[alex2011]

I don't know about you, but my inner monologue is self correcting. So if I think something gross or unkind or cruel I tend to then think "shit that was fucking reprehensible, where did that come from? I'm glad no-one can read my mind, I'm better than that."

Our boy doesn't do that, which suggests that while he does have a filter and is capable of self restraint, he doesn't really aim to be a better person than his basest desires. Or maybe he's incapable which sort of makes him a sociopath. He has engaged in a little self reflection, but doesn't really seem that interested in being "good" beyond the rewards acting good can get him.

He's not like the most vile person ever, but he's a bit (a lot) of a shit.

Exactly

No one was saying that he was, so I don't know why you even brought it up (other than as a strawman).


He's not specifically going after girls with issues though. That would be scummy, but that's not what's happening.
He's going after everyone, just so happens that everyone in this God forsaken town has issues. He's still not a great person by any means, but considering that he seems to be genuinely trying to help them through their issues in the process, even when it's detrimental to his goal of sleeping with them, means he at least has some good in him.
For example in Futaba's case letting her continue to feel bad about her body and telling her that "He's the only one who could love her" would serve his purpose of getting with her much better than trying to improve her self-image and confidence, which is what he's actually doing.

It was never meant as a strawman or targeted at anyone specific, it was just a general statement to make it clear the kind of person we are playing as. He has no moral compass, he's not about to rob a bank, but he's not about to save a puppy stuck in a tree either unless it gets him to his goal, which is to get laid by any and every girl in town.

As Cerpin said, he is very much the type that can filter and restrain himself when necessary to keep from shooting himself in the foot, but he is in no way a good person or even trying to be. The ONLY time he is good is if he knows that is his best option in order to get to his goal.

This is what we see in his interactions with girls like Rin.

He's not specifically targeting anyone, really, the girls just happen to have issues. But what he IS doing is going behind all of their backs to get with each of them in secret. Only a couple know or suspect he is doing something beyond platonic with another girl and they were mostly through factors he didn't prepare for like Kirin at the beach.

He is only trying to help them because it is the best path to his goal. If helping was harmful to his goal or not the best path, he wouldn't do it. None of what he has done so far has been detrimental, especially with Rin specifically. We've seen her wrists, so we know she could slip into suicide attempts with just one push. In order to make sure she DOESN'T do that, he is holding back with her and trying to help her to step away from that cliff she's on the edge of. If he didn't and she got the one push she needed to finally go all the way with an attempt, his goal would automatically be a failure.

With Futaba, he's helping to improve her self image so that she sees his help and develops feelings so that she allows him to have her easier or, even better, gives herself to him actively. That has been paying off.

It is much easier to get a girl to be willing to give herself or unwilling to resist than it is to simply take what he wants, especially if the girl has a potentially deadly issue like Rin's and especially when his target is an entire group of them.

When you have a bunch of girls as close as they are, the last thing you want is to start bad gossip, that stuff spreads extremely quick and it could ruin everything with everyone else if he were to try and fail a negative approach and the target blabbed.

I think you could quite reasonably conclude that he is a villain. No one in history ever thought they were evil, they all rationalise their actions some way.

Imagine you were Ayane's dad and you found out just what her teacher had been doing. You'd not be concerned by the nuances of his motivations

Not quite, he doesn't want to hurt them necessarily, he just wants to have them all. Listening primarily to one's base desires isn't villain behavior, but it most certainly is on the evil end of the spectrum.

You're right about Ayane's dad, but I don't think he would be concerned with anything other than a man porking his daughter. He'd have player Sensei's head if he found out, regardless of her letting him. The only thing that would stop him is Ayane admitting she started it, which she likely would to protect player Sensei.

Sensei just comes across as really broken and I still assume he's the same teacher the girls knew from before, he's just had his psyche shattered by something intensely traumatic or something along those lines. He claims to have come from another world but we don't get any memories from that prior life he's supposed to have lived. That and the lack of curiosity or even agency (he manipulates his way around each girl and event but never really initiates anything in the game) speaks to him having been through something so awful that he no longer believes anything matters.

Of course there's a deeper story being told through the secret scenes and I'm curious to see how they end up connecting to the main story, but I'm enjoying Sensei's character and the internal inconsistencies in his character make a lot of sense for someone who's been horribly traumatized.

Edit: It's also an interesting conversation as to whether Sensei is actually the protagonist here. He doesn't really initiate events and just kind of goes along with them and tries to manipulate them to his advantage, but any action that furthers the story or moves the world seems to be initiated by one of the girls. Maybe kissing Yumi against her will but even then he claimed someone else took control.

No, it is made clear at the beginning that the person they knew is not the one we play. The thing with the other world trope is you don't always get to know what their previous life was like.

As for those 'happy' scenes, those actually are the main story in conjunction with the actual main event list events.

As for who the protagonist is, by definition, it is the one we play as , which is him in this case. It is pretty clear that what we see on the surface is only the tip of the iceberg, there's something that truly does bear villainous intent working in the background and it has been screwing with player Sensei this whole time, including a certain kiss. The Yumi kiss was actually forced on him, he did not have control of himself at that point.

 

[buff]

My current working theory is that Sensei is in fact Nozomu, aka God, and has created a Matrix kinda deal for himself as entertainment. Because if you're all powerful what else are you gonna do? There's a reason we don't always play Minecraft in Creative mode....

 

[~J&F~]

Well after rest for a while and waiting for 2 update on row, finally i come back here, to my beloved ( sometimes confusing ) game, and because i'm Going play it again from the beginning i just need some little spoiler guys.

Can we finally fuck Futaba?

She is beautiful for me, but Sadly i can't fuck her in the old version.

 

[~J&F~]

Yes, having 10 lust with Ami will get you a good morning scene and having high (I don't remember how high off the top of my head, but I'd assume 10) lust with Futaba will have her flash you.

He was specifically speaking of new events added this update, as in 0.10.0 part 2. If you look at the change log, only Ayane, Ami, Miku, and Makoto got new events this specific update. All Molly and Tsuneyo events were added in earlier updates.

A lot of us have been playing this game for months, and as such experience it update-by-update rather than as a huge chunk at once like you've been doing.

Hello,

Nice to meet you again, did you still play the game? Cause i need some some little tips.

I Have not update the game for a while,so i don't any new event, and is there some event i need to avoid for another event? Like the Chika one?

 

[alex2011]

Well after rest for a while and waiting for 2 update on row, finally i come back here, to my beloved ( sometimes confusing ) game, and because i'm Going play it again from the beginning i just need some little spoiler guys.

Can we finally fuck Futaba?

She is beautiful for me, but Sadly i can't fuck her in the old version.

There are some sex scenes, but no penetration for her yet.

Hello,

Nice to meet you again, did you still play the game? Cause i need some some little tips.

I Have not update the game for a while,so i don't any new event, and is there some event i need to avoid for another event? Like the Chika one?

No, nothing like that, just don't say no to sex, except avoiding the one event for Chika until it is safe to see it, and make sure to grind lust up to a certain level so you don't miss any lust scenes.

 

[~J&F~]

There are some sex scenes, but no penetration for her yet.


No, nothing like that, just don't say no to sex, except avoiding the one event for Chika until it is safe to see it, and make sure to grind lust up to a certain level so you don't miss any lust scenes.

Anyway is there another new Pdf Guide for this ?

 

[alex2011]

Anyway is there another new Pdf Guide for this ?

There is a wiki, somewhere in the thread is a trigger list for what each event needs to trigger, and several people have assisted in areas where other players got stuck.

 

[cckerberos]

Anyway is there another new Pdf Guide for this ?

Linked in the OP.

 

[Cerpin]

Not quite, he doesn't want to hurt them necessarily, he just wants to have them all. Listening primarily to one's base desires isn't villain behavior, but it most certainly is on the evil end of the spectrum.

You're right about Ayane's dad, but I don't think he would be concerned with anything other than a man porking his daughter. He'd have player Sensei's head if he found out, regardless of her letting him. The only thing that would stop him is Ayane admitting she started it, which she likely would to protect player Sensei.

I detect that we may be talking at slightly cross purposes there. You appear to be using a more literary definition of villain, I'm talking more real world. A person's own motivation is not really that important when we consider how they are perceived in the real world. Look at someone like Bill Gates who is demonstrably and objectively not a villain and does not intend to hurt anyone. But to a worryingly large number of people he is villainous.

The Ayane's dad example was meant to illustrate this. From the "outside" if sensei was exposed he would be considered a villain. He is abusing a position of power to have sex with young women (because he is a sex addict ). If you use a very narrow definition of villain i.e. that it has to correspond to all the tropes: evil plot, global domination, unnecessary curelty etc. then yeah, Sensei ain't your classic villain.

If you apply some real world logic to it and accept that you can be villainous without being literal Hitler, then I think it would be entirely possibly to conclude that he is a villain. Just imagine the shit storm if a real world teacher was exposed to be up to the stuff he is.

 

[JustADude321]

Well, throwing in my two cents into this whole theorycrafting deal:

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I'm admittedly more interested in being taken for a ride with cute girls and fugging, so I don't know what this might all mean in the grand scheme. To that end, I really hope the game will end with a happily ever after, though as time progresses this seems increasingly more unlikely.

 

[Skeltom]

He has no moral compass

Sure he does. "My moral compass always point souuuth" - Avery Bullock

 

[buff]

Looking at the game logo..... some interesting things:

* Ayane is sitting in the role of Judas (the traitor)
* John is occupied by Maya. What makes this interesting is that the John in Davinci's Last Supper is considered(by the Lost Gospel crowd and modern fans of Dan Brown) to actually be Mary Magdalene, the wife of Jesus who is later disavowed and branded as a harlot by the Church
* Rin is Thomas (the Doubting Thomas who did not believe Jesus was resurrected)
* Peter (the guy who violently defended Jesus by attacking the Romans that came to arrest Him) is, fittingly, Ami.

There's probably some other interesting bits in there, but I'm not a biblical scholar (and don't want to overthink this _too_ much.)






Edit: Looks like other have already covered some of this earlier in the thread

 

[Budoop]

IIRC Ami and Ayane are in the wrong places, it was stated that they should be swapped.

 

[buff]

IIRC Ami and Ayane are in the wrong places, it was stated that they should be swapped.

Stated by Selebus?

Ami as the Judas would be interesting. I could see her crossing the love/hate boundary more easily than I could see Ayane doing so.

 

[alutarox]

Stated by Selebus?

Ami as the Judas would be interesting. I could see her crossing the love/hate boundary more easily than I could see Ayane doing so.

Yeah, a good few pages back, I'd link but I don't even vaguely remember where.

I do, however, remember that he did say it.

 

[DrFree]

Yeah, a good few pages back, I'd link but I don't even vaguely remember where.

I do, however, remember that he did say it.

Just as a suggestion, tou can use the search function to go through a user's replies only. So if you type "Ami" by user "Selebus" you could find it if you vaguely remember its contents.

 

[alex2011]

I detect that we may be talking at slightly cross purposes there. You appear to be using a more literary definition of villain, I'm talking more real world. A person's own motivation is not really that important when we consider how they are perceived in the real world. Look at someone like Bill Gates who is demonstrably and objectively not a villain and does not intend to hurt anyone. But to a worryingly large number of people he is villainous.

The Ayane's dad example was meant to illustrate this. From the "outside" if sensei was exposed he would be considered a villain. He is abusing a position of power to have sex with young women (because he is a sex addict ). If you use a very narrow definition of villain i.e. that it has to correspond to all the tropes: evil plot, global domination, unnecessary curelty etc. then yeah, Sensei ain't your classic villain.

If you apply some real world logic to it and accept that you can be villainous without being literal Hitler, then I think it would be entirely possibly to conclude that he is a villain. Just imagine the shit storm if a real world teacher was exposed to be up to the stuff he is.

I am using a more literary definition since, while Selebus is making the characters more realistic than you normally see on a game like this and I am not capable of resisting an emotional response or connection to this game as I normally can others, it is still a work of fiction.

Bill Gates is most definitely not a villain, he bears no evil intent, he only does what he views as right, which in itself is not villainous by any definition.

However, player Sensei specifically DOES bear evil intent, not to the level of typical villains, but to a potentially harmful level to the girls he is after. He is also well aware of this intent bearing that potential and is proceeding with it anyway. Ayane's dad, not so much, he'd probably just be the typical overprotective father type.

Abusing his position is exactly what player Sensei is already doing, just not in the straightforward way some might consider when they think of an abuse of power. What most might think of is player Sensei using his authority and outright ordering unsavory acts from the girls like in some rape hentai, but in the game he's actually using his position to get close to the girls, to manipulate them into thinking of him as more than just a teacher. He's trying to influence their perception of him into that of woman toward a man so that they give themselves to him. This provides the highest chance of successfully getting all of the girls.

There actually have been real teachers getting into trouble for things like this, though not always through manipulation like in the game. Often times it is actually mutual and they get in trouble simply because they are a person with authority over the student or the student is underage. You hear about it at least once a year in my country.

Thanks for the 'literal Hitler' line, I just finished watching an archaeological program about uncovering a little known camp on a small British island that was occupied, so it gave me an image of Sensei as the commandant and the added girls as his guards with one solitary girl, Touka, the girl in white during one of Ayane's scenes, in the well known striped uniform of the prisoners of those camps. Wasn't trying to picture it, it just popped in.

Well, throwing in my two cents into this whole theorycrafting deal:

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I'm admittedly more interested in being taken for a ride with cute girls and fugging, so I don't know what this might all mean in the grand scheme. To that end, I really hope the game will end with a happily ever after, though as time progresses this seems increasingly more unlikely.

That end is EXTREMELY unlikely as this is a Denpa game, a genre of horror well known for having very little to no happiness and, when they do, it is often only in one route. For that reason, I suggest not getting your hopes up for any true happiness until AT LEAST the final route is underway a few years from now.

Sure he does. "My moral compass always point souuuth" - Avery Bullock

Good point, that's even worse than no compass.

Looking at the game logo..... some interesting things:

* Ayane is sitting in the role of Judas (the traitor)
* John is occupied by Maya. What makes this interesting is that the John in Davinci's Last Supper is considered(by the Lost Gospel crowd and modern fans of Dan Brown) to actually be Mary Magdalene, the wife of Jesus who is later disavowed and branded as a harlot by the Church
* Rin is Thomas (the Doubting Thomas who did not believe Jesus was resurrected)
* Peter (the guy who violently defended Jesus by attacking the Romans that came to arrest Him) is, fittingly, Ami.

There's probably some other interesting bits in there, but I'm not a biblical scholar (and don't want to overthink this _too_ much.)


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Edit: Looks like other have already covered some of this earlier in the thread

IIRC Ami and Ayane are in the wrong places, it was stated that they should be swapped.

Yeah, a good few pages back, I'd link but I don't even vaguely remember where.

I do, however, remember that he did say it.

Yes, there was at least one mistake admitted by Selebus in positioning the girls in each spot, though given Ayane has been one to show potential as a yandere, the traitor position, Judas, isn't out of the realm of possibility for her.

Given yanderes are known to kill their love interest if they catch them with another girl, though they will go after the girl instead in some cases, usually if it is clear their love interest isn't the initiator, they technically betray their love interest, making them a traitor. Judas betrayed Jesus, so putting a character with yandere tendencies in his position does make some sense.

 

[PeterXHunter]

Maybe, this thing will exist in the far future update, just like hoverboard in our world.

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[alex2011]

Maybe, this thing will exist in the far future update, just like hoverboard in our world.

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Maybe, but we will still need to preorder "A World Without Bubbles!" and "A World Without Geoffrey's Family!" at Gamestop to get the bonuses, gotta have those extra outfits and coffins, you know.

 

[coyotegrey]

Just found this game and started with it. That first day he talks about how he only knows the characters 'cause he found the notebook and my only thought is that I hope he found the f'ing lesson plans.