Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.47.0] [Selebus]

[Beate]

You guessed it, it's time Moonflare ranted on why Himawari's name is Ami again. This will be kinda short (I tried guys) since it's just a new piece of information to add to the rest (there is a second one at the end though).

Sorry if you've already explained this somewhere else, but my thought was that she is Akira and Ayane's child that got "erased" from the time skip.

That would explain why she refuses to take on Ayane's form as the only stipulation of what she won't do. They also allude to how she is not supposed to "be there yet". I took that as that was her from "the future" if it had ever come to pass. But since she was swallowed by the time loop, that she could be any age technically.

Then she jumped in and helped Ayane out after Ami abandoned her in the woods. (I could see the Ami argument kind of here, since maybe she explained to Ayane how she was the real Ami and told her some information that gave her the confidence to confront "Ami").

The fact that you gave a name earlier too, made me feel that the name reveal for her would be whatever name you gave before when it asked.

 

[Moonflare]

Sorry if you've already explained this somewhere else, but my thought was that she is Akira and Ayane's child that got "erased" from the time skip.

That would explain why she refuses to take on Ayane's form as the only stipulation of what she won't do. They also allude to how she is not supposed to "be there yet". I took that as that was her from "the future" if it had ever come to pass. But since she was swallowed by the time loop, that she could be any age technically.

Then she jumped in and helped Ayane out after Ami abandoned her in the woods. (I could see the Ami argument kind of here, since maybe she explained to Ayane how she was the real Ami and told her some information that gave her the confidence to confront "Ami").

The fact that you gave a name earlier too, made me feel that the name reveal for her would be whatever name you gave before when it asked.

Well, there are a few things of note. It's not impossible that Himawari is the baby that was taken with the reset, but it's just as likely that she isn't because she already showed up way before it, as early as "the room with clocks"/"scientific research". So, if she had to time travel to show up before our Ayane got pregnant, then it's just as likely that she could be the baby of a million other Ayanes, or this one in a later point in time. If not, then we'd have to assume that Himawari's first existence is within our current cycle and that she somehow time-travelled. If she was the baby of another Ayane at another time, then she grew up in her own time and it's acting in this new cycle as well (after all that happened). I don't see enough evidence yet to declare it either way.

I, personally, am not that keen on finding that detail out specifically because the whole Himawari thing is that she's a possibility. Survival is her number one goal, as put forward by DeSkel. So I think, at the moment, she probably both is and isn't a lot of things (AmIOkay may have been referring to her as the paradox in "december 2020"). However, it must be said that if she was this Ayane's baby that got taken, she would be more of a thing that shouldn't exist than a possibility. And we already have a thing that shouldn't exist, which is Nao-chan. I don't really see both of them being of the same nature.

Regarding her name, if it was as simple as choosing the name yourself, then the reveal already happened. It's on the event where you meet New Maya at the temple in chapter 4, when that entity that slaps you is talking to you, it will make mention of a baby in its belly, and it will use the name you chose for Himawari.

However, the name you chose for her and her actual name are very likely to be two different things. That is because her actual name was chosen by Ayane, not Akira. As Himawari is telling us Ayane's thoughts (in "untitled"), she said that her name was chosen as one that she's sure Akira would like - and that narrows it down by a significant amount. And if you somehow got it right (like if you chose "Ami" and it turns out to be Ami), then it would be fairly simple to add a few lines that recognize that later, just like the recent Futaba event will recognize if she already called you daddy.

 

[aramaug]

Sorry if you've already explained this somewhere else, but my thought was that she is Akira and Ayane's child that got "erased" from the time skip.

That would explain why she refuses to take on Ayane's form as the only stipulation of what she won't do. They also allude to how she is not supposed to "be there yet". I took that as that was her from "the future" if it had ever come to pass. But since she was swallowed by the time loop, that she could be any age technically.

Then she jumped in and helped Ayane out after Ami abandoned her in the woods. (I could see the Ami argument kind of here, since maybe she explained to Ayane how she was the real Ami and told her some information that gave her the confidence to confront "Ami").

The fact that you gave a name earlier too, made me feel that the name reveal for her would be whatever name you gave before when it asked.

Edit: I see Moonflare posted before me, but I think this still might help clarify things.

Yes, the consensus is that she is Akira and Ayane's child. I haven't seen anyone seriously argue otherwise. What isn't certain is her real name. What Moonflare is arguing for (and I also support this position) is that her given name is Ami, i.e. she has the same name as her cousin/half-sister.

As a preliminary, if you're not already aware, the community refers to her as "Himawari" (Japanese for sunflower) because she tells Akira to name her after his favorite flower, which is later established to be sunflowers. There are also a few references to Himawari in the game, such as HimawariCo.

To be really brief, this is what I think is the strongest evidence for her actual name being Ami:

• Ayane talks about the possibility of giving the name Ami to a future child on three separate occasions.
• During the Untitled Children's Show, Himawari as Ayane says that she picked a name for her baby that she knows Akira would like. As far as we know, Ayane doesn't know about Akira's love of sunflowers.
• At some point (I think in Maya's festival), Himawari tells Akira that her name is "hilarious, a real kick to the shin". "Himawari" isn't a funny name, but being the second person named "Ami Arakawa" would be.

I would say that the last one also makes it definitive that Himawari has a particular name, it's not just up to the player.

 

[Moonflare]

Edit: I see Moonflare posted before me, but I think this still might help clarify things.

Yes, the consensus is that she is Akira and Ayane's child. I haven't seen anyone seriously argue otherwise. What isn't certain is her real name. What Moonflare is arguing for (and I also support this position) is that her given name is Ami, i.e. she has the same name as her cousin/half-sister.

As a preliminary, if you're not already aware, the community refers to her as "Himawari" (Japanese for sunflower) because she tells Akira to name her after his favorite flower, which is later established to be sunflowers. There are also a few references to Himawari in the game, such as HimawariCo.

To be really brief, this is what I think is the strongest evidence for her actual name being Ami:

• Ayane talks about the possibility of giving the name Ami to a future child on three separate occasions.
• During the Untitled Children's Show, Himawari as Ayane says that she picked a name for her baby that she knows Akira would like. As far as we know, Ayane doesn't know about Akira's love of sunflowers.
• At some point (I think in Maya's festival), Himawari tells Akira that her name is "hilarious, a real kick to the shin". "Himawari" isn't a funny name, but being the second person named "Ami Arakawa" would be.

I would say that the last one also makes it definitive that Himawari has a particular name, it's not just up to the player.

That part about the kick to the shin finally made sense to me, thank you. Sometimes I can really picture Himawari being the first "normal" person in their family, born at a time after all the fucked-up shit.

Can you imagine the little trickster being like "yeah dad, you have two daughters and they both have the same name, real kick to the shin that one, hilarious! You're not at all a goober for that, no sir!" then she also maybe had a knack for imitating all their friends, and would like to dress up... Akira and her would have no sexual vibe at all, and she'd know how to deal with his blackouts.

Man, I really want that day to come - and if it came to pass, it would perfectly sum up the "I'm all you never wanted, and everything you'll ever need" - with her being a normal daughter in a healthy relationship.

 

[Yarazin]

I like the idea of her being born in a timeline where the resets didn't happen/after all that shit would have happened. She grew up with a loving father and they both had a great relationship with each other. Then somehow, shit got messed up in the past and she came back to help fix it. If she doesn't then she wont be born.

About a subject someone mentioned earlier. Sure we don't need everything answered but if by the end we still are mostly unsure about the major points then that will suck.

 

[aramaug]

That part about the kick to the shin finally made sense to me, thank you. Sometimes I can really picture Himawari being the first "normal" person in their family, born at a time after all the fucked-up shit.

Can you imagine the little trickster being like "yeah dad, you have two daughters and they both have the same name, real kick to the shin that one, hilarious! You're not at all a goober for that, no sir!" then she also maybe had a knack for imitating all their friends, and would like to dress up... Akira and her would have no sexual vibe at all, and she'd know how to deal with his blackouts.

Man, I really want that day to come - and if it came to pass, it would perfectly sum up the "I'm all you never wanted, and everything you'll ever need" - with her being a normal daughter in a healthy relationship.

Assuming that she's the narrator who calls herself "your kick to the shin" in Chapter 4, it does seem like she has good memories of a wholesome relationship with her father. So I'm hopeful that we'll get to see that, maybe in Ayane's purity route.

Spoiler: Irregular Heartbeat

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[Comiies]

Edit: I see Moonflare posted before me, but I think this still might help clarify things.

Yes, the consensus is that she is Akira and Ayane's child. I haven't seen anyone seriously argue otherwise. What isn't certain is her real name. What Moonflare is arguing for (and I also support this position) is that her given name is Ami, i.e. she has the same name as her cousin/half-sister.

As a preliminary, if you're not already aware, the community refers to her as "Himawari" (Japanese for sunflower) because she tells Akira to name her after his favorite flower, which is later established to be sunflowers. There are also a few references to Himawari in the game, such as HimawariCo.

To be really brief, this is what I think is the strongest evidence for her actual name being Ami:

• Ayane talks about the possibility of giving the name Ami to a future child on three separate occasions.
• During the Untitled Children's Show, Himawari as Ayane says that she picked a name for her baby that she knows Akira would like. As far as we know, Ayane doesn't know about Akira's love of sunflowers.
• At some point (I think in Maya's festival), Himawari tells Akira that her name is "hilarious, a real kick to the shin". "Himawari" isn't a funny name, but being the second person named "Ami Arakawa" would be.

I would say that the last one also makes it definitive that Himawari has a particular name, it's not just up to the player.

Also dont forget the fact that during one of those happy event sequences where it was revealed that Himawari has a contract with these disgusting gods it was confirmed that Ayane was pregnant but didnt tell Sensei!

 

[Comiies]

That part about the kick to the shin finally made sense to me, thank you. Sometimes I can really picture Himawari being the first "normal" person in their family, born at a time after all the fucked-up shit.

Can you imagine the little trickster being like "yeah dad, you have two daughters and they both have the same name, real kick to the shin that one, hilarious! You're not at all a goober for that, no sir!" then she also maybe had a knack for imitating all their friends, and would like to dress up... Akira and her would have no sexual vibe at all, and she'd know how to deal with his blackouts.

Man, I really want that day to come - and if it came to pass, it would perfectly sum up the "I'm all you never wanted, and everything you'll ever need" - with her being a normal daughter in a healthy relationship.

Nah but if himawari being Akiras and Ayanes child from a previous cycle happens to be true,that means that Ami allowed that to happen.Crazy stuff.

 

[PhiloPhilo]

About a subject someone mentioned earlier. Sure we don't need everything answered but if by the end we still are mostly unsure about the major points then that will suck.

I agree with you generally, but also see where he's coming from. There has to be a purpose as to why something is or isn't explained in a story, and getting it wrong ruins it. We leave things ambiguous or unknown to heighten intrigue, prolong reveals, encourage speculation, and to keep consequences unknown (e.g., if we're just told who is the mastermind of an event and that they just did it because they're a dick, then this thread goes from 2000 pages to 100 and the game becomes half the length, and boring.) The problems come when things aren't unexplained, but an (appropriate) explanation is needed or earned. Then we're left with contrivances, shattering of immersion, a purposely vague story that's unrewarding, and the feeling that we got cheated out of part of the story and its justification. We're left feeling like the writer just wanted something cool to happen no matter how stupid it is, or how little reason for it exists. Oh hey, Palpatine's back!
On the flip side, stories are information. Not giving it can be powerful, but without it there's no story. I'd say it comes down to this; Is it more rewarding, engaging, sensical to reveal something or keep it unknown by the end? What information is needed to tie everything together and make the conclusion satisfying, and after that, what can we afford to leave teased?
I'm fine with a lot being left up for debate (not hand-waved or forgotten about,) but if we get a cop-out, cliff hanger ending I'll be pretty peeved.

 

[daagagsdgd]

The discussion on Himawari (The girl with blue eyes whom Nodoka saw in her dreams right?) reminds me of something. In Ad Infinitum narrator (which suggests to be Pareidolia) said that "If anything, you should impregnate that Ayane girl immediately.", which makes me wonder Himawari's association with Pareidolia since he wanted baby of Ayane to be born. Though I'd rather to believe Himawari was the unnamed baby of Ayane obliterated in reset.

And in Untitled Children's Show 79 took Himawari in hostage and forced her to watch Akira struggle. But to whom did 79 and Moyo serve to? Pareidolia or Nozomu? I think I haven't seen many successive theories built on 79 and 61.

 

[crustlord12]

I don't make pony porn. I just make cute ponies and centaur/horse girl porn.

Spoiler: Io+Uta

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I can't believe I saw what you wrote, and still just instinctively opened the spoiler. Monkey brain needs to slow down

 

[JelF547]

I can't believe I saw what you wrote, and still just instinctively opened the spoiler. Monkey brain needs to slow down

Or you should just trust your intuition and enjoy it

 

[fdsasdf_p]

Why stop at Kaori?

Yumi walks in on Akira and her dad.

 

[PhiloPhilo]

 

[throwawaysponge]

Crime/9

 

[Lux Perpetua]

But to whom did 79 and Moyo serve to? Pareidolia or Nozomu?

How is Akira's deceased older brother and pareidolia even related? I've completely lost track of what's going on with the theories in this thread lately

 

[Moonflare]

How is Akira's deceased older brother and pareidolia even related? I've completely lost track of what's going on with the theories in this thread lately

79 and Moyo are "freelancers" aka supernatural entities that call themselves "children of the clockwork", and seem to change allegiances between gods throughout the game. They are seen (presumably) serving HOPE multiple times (like collecting Akira's sperm inside his church).

The concept of "freelancers" partly comes from the bunny observer that tries to change camps from HOPE to Wires during the plant council in the Sekai Restoration event.

That Nozomu is related to Pareidolia in being a god they can pledge allegiance to is a jump in the fact that the previous "USER1" (or maybe not a user at all, but HOPE's predecessor at least) was also called Nozomu aka "the horny ball of light". Thus the jump is that HOPE which is the current USER1 is also Nozomu, instead of his son or someone that simply inherited his legacy.

The event "tick tock tick tock", which has AmIOKay and a reflection of Akira having sex in front of him, is theorized to actually be Nozomu and Sekai having sex in front of him. If that's the case, what Sekai says would point to HOPE being their son instead: "we can get pregnant with a new HOPE, teach it to reset the world and touch it sexually if it can't".

There isn't enough evidence as to the relation between Nozomu and HOPE yet. All we know is that Nozomu (god and brother) both died. If HOPE is an entire new thing or one of his aspects reborn we don't know.

Edit: for those interested in this part of the lore, I recommend rewatching "first contact" which seems to recount the car accident, and how, from it, all of the gods seemed to spawn (or become relevant). It's an interesting read, even though it's too confusing to serve as evidence of anything by itself.

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

And in Untitled Children's Show 79 took Himawari in hostage and forced her to watch Akira struggle. But to whom did 79 and Moyo serve to? Pareidolia or Nozomu? I think I haven't seen many successive theories built on 79 and 61.

I think 79 and Moyo work for HOPE, for now at least:

Spoiler

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I don't think it's Himawari, simply due to her role as a hostage and how she's treated in "Untitled" by Long Maya:

Spoiler

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[gazgiz]

I don't think it's Himawari, simply due to her role as a hostage and how she's treated in "Untitled" by Long Maya:

Where in the game is stated that she's a hostage? Not snarking just miss that, if true.

I always took that scene to be an argument between two "coworkers," but then again, my hermeneutical reading of the game is deeply agnostic to the GODS gods Gods being "evil" or that they aren't different aspects of the same unified entity. A lot of post-nicaean theology in this here "porn" game.

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

Where in the game is stated that she's a hostage? Not snarking just miss that, if true.

I always took that scene to be an argument between two "coworkers," but then again, my hermeneutical reading of the game is deeply agnostic to the GODS gods Gods being "evil" or that they aren't different aspects of the same unified entity. A lot of post-nicaean theology in this here "porn" game.

Himawari is a hostage both in the sense that Akira (her father) is being threatened and also her very own existence with Long Maya's threat to 'remove' her from the show if she doesn't comply. We learn exactly what this entails in a previous event:

Spoiler

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