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LessonsInLove-0.44
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akselx

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Mar 29, 2020
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I don't have anything clever to add, just remembered that at various points in game Maya was called a "Dream Baby", as in being conceived in a dream two times by Happy Ami, as well as "honorary angel" by her hexadecimal self.

Basically, this update introduced the idea that Yuu (Akira's assumed father) is also the father of Sekai (whose mother is Miu, the highschool friend of Yuu and Saki). That would mean Sekai is half-sister to both Nozomu and Akira. There are way more complicated family trees, but these are born out of speculation, those two are the currently supported in-game.

Edit: A minor point we haven't addressed yet is that the family name Sekai despised is either Arakawa or Miyahara. That she chose to marry into the Arakawa family would suggest her original family name was Miyahara though. Also the house by the lake is Sekai's family home.
Again, just randomly remembered that in some Happy Scene, hex Maya actually addressed Sensei as either "World", or "Sekai" for reasons I still don't understand.
 

barglenarglezous

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Basically, this update introduced the idea that Yuu (Akira's assumed father) is also the father of Sekai (whose mother is Miu, the highschool friend of Yuu and Saki). That would mean Sekai is half-sister to both Nozomu and Akira. There are way more complicated family trees, but these are born out of speculation, those two are the currently supported in-game.

Edit: A minor point we haven't addressed yet is that the family name Sekai despised is either Arakawa or Miyahara. That she chose to marry into the Arakawa family would suggest her original family name was Miyahara though. Also the house by the lake is Sekai's family home.
Is Yuu being related to Akira at all confirmed in text, or is it an assumption because he's the NIB protag and had similar blackouts. Is it possible there's a different father entirely?
 

Moonflare

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Aug 23, 2023
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I feel like the millionPC h scene flags will be used by sel to fk with ppl who cheated for PC, even if you use URM I would just buy all other items and leave the h scenes there. As by doing it normally it would take like 5~ish hours just for 1, there's no way the flags be used for good.
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Is Yuu being related to Akira at all confirmed in text, or is it an assumption because he's the NIB protag and had similar blackouts. Is it possible there's a different father entirely?
It's assumed. At the moment, there's way more confirmation about Yuu being Sekai's father than Akira's. However, someone also says Akira's father died of diabetes, and Nozomu dies of a car crash. Finally, Pareidolia says that if Akira keeps on like this he really will end up like his father. Which under the light of this update could either be 1. a walking hotel for gods, in Yuu's case, and what Pareidolia implied in his last conversation; 2. or possibly a god in Nozomu's case? (I fail to see how that'd be something that has to be warned against though).
I don't have anything clever to add, just remembered that at various points in game Maya was called a "Dream Baby", as in being conceived in a dream two times by Happy Ami, as well as "honorary angel" by her hexadecimal self.

Again, just randomly remembered that in some Happy Scene, hex Maya actually addressed Sensei as either "World", or "Sekai" for reasons I still don't understand.
It's assumed AmIOkay calls Akira Sekai because Sekai is always with him. She's the shadow following him all the time. Through the events of the event with the japanese name, he becomes able to see her, but she's always been there. AmIOkay is the one that becomes an honorary angel though, she's a different being from Maya Prime, as both of them interact in the replica of heaven. We don't know about AmIOkay's origin, as Maya Prime is a child of chance, whereas the twins are of clockwork - but no one clarifies about AmIOkay.
 
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aramaug

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Jun 28, 2019
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Before I get into the wall of text, let me say that New Maya speaks for us all.
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Starting off with some lore stuff that I think is important but easy to miss.
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And here's the rest of my observations. Sorry no context for these because I didn't want to upload a million screenshots.
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I think there's a lot I missed, I'm looking forward to reading through this update again.
 

barglenarglezous

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Sep 5, 2020
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It's assumed. At the moment, there's way more confirmation about Yuu being Sekai's father than Akira's. However, someone also says Akira's father died of diabetes, and Nozomu dies of a car crash. Finally, Pareidolia says that if Akira keeps on like this he really will end up like his father. Which under the light of this update could either be 1. a walking hotel for gods, in Yuu's case, and what Pareidolia implied in his last conversation; 2. or possibly a god in Nozomu's case? (I fail to see how that'd be something that has to be warned against though).
I suppose my meaning was unclear.

Is it possible that Yuu never got Saki pregnant in the first place? That both Nozomu and Akira could have different fathers than we'd assumed?

It would definitely be strange if we've gotten so much second hand information about his father without his father having been introduced in this game or it's prequel, but it might have been an intentional red herring.
 
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LessonsInDissonance

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Oct 1, 2023
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in what? given that I now believe in Sekai's possibility of redemption, there really isn't much that I don't believe at the moment.
//////////////////////I guess it doesn't matter, I just hoped you'd remember some of the things I said.


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拉麵

I think this is a good moment for me to retire, it will be a long time before the next update, it's been fun here, but I won't be home for a long time. To all my friends take good care, until the next time we meet again.

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aramaug

Member
Jun 28, 2019
233
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Is Yuu being related to Akira at all confirmed in text, or is it an assumption because he's the NIB protag and had similar blackouts. Is it possible there's a different father entirely?
It's not confirmed, but according to Pareidolia in "Clockless Watch" Akira's father had a sweet tooth and a vice for candy, and from what I understand Yuu is obsessed with candy in NiB.
It's assumed. At the moment, there's way more confirmation about Yuu being Sekai's father than Akira's. However, someone also says Akira's father died of diabetes, and Nozomu dies of a car crash. Finally, Pareidolia says that if Akira keeps on like this he really will end up like his father. Which under the light of this update could either be 1. a walking hotel for gods, in Yuu's case, and what Pareidolia implied in his last conversation; 2. or possibly a god in Nozomu's case? (I fail to see how that'd be something that has to be warned against though).
For what it's worth, the diabetes thing was probably metaphorical - Long Maya calls it "the simple answer" for how Akira's parents died. That being said, I don't see how it works for Akira's father to be Nozomu unless the things Pareidolia said about him were straight up lies. In addition to the candy thing, he says that nobody remembers Akira's father, and Ami at the very least remembers Nozomu.

My interpretation of ending up like your father: Pareidolia and/or other gods were in Yuu's head but Yuu refused to listen to them, which resulted in him being erased and no one remembering him.
 

Moonflare

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Aug 23, 2023
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It's not confirmed, but according to Pareidolia in "Clockless Watch" Akira's father had a sweet tooth and a vice for candy, and from what I understand Yuu is obsessed with candy in NiB.

For what it's worth, the diabetes thing was probably metaphorical - Long Maya calls it "the simple answer" for how Akira's parents died. That being said, I don't see how it works for Akira's father to be Nozomu unless the things Pareidolia said about him were straight up lies. In addition to the candy thing, he says that nobody remembers Akira's father, and Ami at the very least remembers Nozomu.

My interpretation of ending up like your father: Pareidolia and/or other gods were in Yuu's head but Yuu refused to listen to them, which resulted in him being erased and no one remembering him.
I like this theory. Also, there's just too much to reply on your previous post, so I'll just say it was a very interesting read. And that I'm reticent about the possible implications of all this potential incest going around. I'm feeling reticent about lots of things tbh, the game keeps moving away from the simulation and 2 gods, that were 3, that were 4 - to one of them not even being an important thing overall if we were to believe him.
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Is it possible that Yuu never got Saki pregnant in the first place? That both Nozomu and Akira could have different fathers than we'd assumed?

It would definitely be strange if we've gotten so much second hand information about his father without his father having been introduced in this game or it's prequel, but it might have been an intentional red herring.
It is possible, I just don't see why. Saki was clearly in love with Yuu, and given that he was the protagonist of the game while also hearing voices from everywhere, I kind of doubt he'd get Miu pregnant and not Saki. Sekai and Akira suffer from the same thing more or less, which was the same thing Yuu suffered from.

Edit: Off-topic question, who was the close friend that changed Akira's wallpaper? Himawari? (or a daring guess, maybe even Pareidolia?).
 
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LoveRedHairedGirl

Active Member
Dec 18, 2020
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No one was talking about Ayane's mansion being really infinite. But I guess that doesn't change anything, aside the fact that her mansion is in fact infinite.

Anyway, my thoughts of the update:

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Also, I am out of reactions, again.
 
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akselx

Active Member
Mar 29, 2020
779
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the game keeps moving away from the simulation and 2 gods, that were 3, that were 4 - to one of them not even being an important thing overall if we were to believe him.
Tbh, Sel was basically screaming that simulation theory is not the case from the very beginning. He even wrote a couple of Happy Events bashing players over the head and really talking down to theorists (yeah, technically it was Narrator, but we all know the Sle is an asshole and those we probably his true sentiments).
 

Moonflare

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Aug 23, 2023
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Tbh, Sel was basically screaming that simulation theory is not the case from the very beginning. He even wrote a couple of Happy Events bashing players over the head and really talking down to theorists (yeah, technically it was Narrator, but we all know the Sle is an asshole and those we probably his true sentiments).
That's not what I mean by simulation.

From my understanding he was bashing the idea that nothing was real, and that it was a simulation. What I mean by simulation is that there is a group observing and taking notes about the subjects of kumon mi, who in turn aren't real or fake, but something in between. This has been confirmed during Akira's and Nao-chan's journey into the writer's room, and what the note on the desk says.

They can change kumon mi and its people, reset or erase them. They are also doing so for a reason. This is what I mean by simulation, Akira's world is simulated.
 
Nov 22, 2021
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The moment you start thinking about "proper game design," "immersion," etc you've already lost because you're on the completely wrong track. It is blindingly obvious that the purpose of the puzzles is not to provide a fun and engaging experience. They reflect that fact that the further one goes into Lessons in Love, the more the world rejects the player (this goes for both the literal player and Sensei). It becomes increasingly hard to progress, increasingly unfun, increasingly grindy - it would be reductive to state there is only one ludonarrative purpose for this, but that is the design. The artistic purpose. It is an experience the developer is attempting to convey through mechanic. It is axiomatic to say that "video games should be fun," "puzzles should test innovative thinking," etc, which is to say that they are not fundamental truths - they are platitudes liable to become thought-terminating cliches. Looking at systems clearly designed to reject the player and make their life difficult then complaining about how they aren't fun enough is so foolish I balk that one so invested in the story and theory-crafting would be so blind to this point. Let us examine once again Moby Dick.



In chapter 32 there is a lengthy chapter devoted to the physiology of whales. This is a highly dull chapter to read and a well-known roadblock for prospective readers of the work (yet I must explain it in detail here because it is dubious whether any poster in this thread has ready even such a fundamental cornerstone a literature such as Moby Dick). However, in this context of literature removed from "a porn game that should be fun and get my pee pee hard," we see immediately how foolish it would be to critique it from a lens as those critiquing SENSEI QUEST and other resets are. Can you imagine going to Melville and saying, good sir, it is all well and good that you wish your novel to be a testimony to every aspect of whales from the physical aspects of their being to the mythological image they come to represent, but this chapter was quite dull! Could you not make it a bit more fun and exciting? In fact, quite a few of your chapters could be shaved down, let's have more action scenes and whale hunting, you would really get more readers that way! It is rather obnoxious that you should even think to force me to read some boring chapter on whales when I can in fact simply flip the pages! Do you not know I will just flip the pages? You are not listening to me sir, I am telling you to make your novel more fun for me!

It really is just that simple: think, for one moment, the purpose. Now, it is entirely fair if you look at Lessons in Love rejecting the player and making it increasingly hard/unpleasant to make progress as a foolish thing. Some people think whales are dumb. However, this is not what is happening. The angle of attack is so completely off base it's like one is seeing reality on an entirely different level. Like one's mind is so boxed in by platitudes that any time something isn't fun and satisfying their every urge for what they want it to be that the entire world starts to seem wrong. How can one profess themselves to be a deep thinker, a lover of thought and figuring things out, so proud of each theory and confirmed idea, if such basic mental walls blind them so deeply? Such that they look upon a rock and see a mountain, or they look upon a mountain and see a rock? You really think for one fucking second the puzzles are meant to be fun tests of knowledge? You really think they contain anything but spite and hostility? You really think this is supposed to be a good time? You really think that 'all media must be fun' is a God-like axiom that subsumes all other purposes one may have? What? WHAT???????????? The populace is rendered infants before the most basic and blunt artistic purpose which itself is literally stated directly over and over. Shocking! Nothing really is beautiful!
 

Moonflare

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2023
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8,905
The moment you start thinking about "proper game design," "immersion," etc you've already lost because you're on the completely wrong track. It is blindingly obvious that the purpose of the puzzles is not to provide a fun and engaging experience. They reflect that fact that the further one goes into Lessons in Love, the more the world rejects the player (this goes for both the literal player and Sensei). It becomes increasingly hard to progress, increasingly unfun, increasingly grindy - it would be reductive to state there is only one ludonarrative purpose for this, but that is the design. The artistic purpose. It is an experience the developer is attempting to convey through mechanic. It is axiomatic to say that "video games should be fun," "puzzles should test innovative thinking," etc, which is to say that they are not fundamental truths - they are platitudes liable to become thought-terminating cliches. Looking at systems clearly designed to reject the player and make their life difficult then complaining about how they aren't fun enough is so foolish I balk that one so invested in the story and theory-crafting would be so blind to this point. Let us examine once again Moby Dick.



In chapter 32 there is a lengthy chapter devoted to the physiology of whales. This is a highly dull chapter to read and a well-known roadblock for prospective readers of the work (yet I must explain it in detail here because it is dubious whether any poster in this thread has ready even such a fundamental cornerstone a literature such as Moby Dick). However, in this context of literature removed from "a porn game that should be fun and get my pee pee hard," we see immediately how foolish it would be to critique it from a lens as those critiquing SENSEI QUEST and other resets are. Can you imagine going to Melville and saying, good sir, it is all well and good that you wish your novel to be a testimony to every aspect of whales from the physical aspects of their being to the mythological image they come to represent, but this chapter was quite dull! Could you not make it a bit more fun and exciting? In fact, quite a few of your chapters could be shaved down, let's have more action scenes and whale hunting, you would really get more readers that way! It is rather obnoxious that you should even think to force me to read some boring chapter on whales when I can in fact simply flip the pages! Do you not know I will just flip the pages? You are not listening to me sir, I am telling you to make your novel more fun for me!

It really is just that simple: think, for one moment, the purpose. Now, it is entirely fair if you look at Lessons in Love rejecting the player and making it increasingly hard/unpleasant to make progress as a foolish thing. Some people think whales are dumb. However, this is not what is happening. The angle of attack is so completely off base it's like one is seeing reality on an entirely different level. Like one's mind is so boxed in by platitudes that any time something isn't fun and satisfying their every urge for what they want it to be that the entire world starts to seem wrong. How can one profess themselves to be a deep thinker, a lover of thought and figuring things out, so proud of each theory and confirmed idea, if such basic mental walls blind them so deeply? Such that they look upon a rock and see a mountain, or they look upon a mountain and see a rock? You really think for one fucking second the puzzles are meant to be fun tests of knowledge? You really think they contain anything but spite and hostility? You really think this is supposed to be a good time? You really think that 'all media must be fun' is a God-like axiom that subsumes all other purposes one may have? What? WHAT???????????? The populace is rendered infants before the most basic and blunt artistic purpose which itself is literally stated directly over and over. Shocking! Nothing really is beautiful!
Moby dick is a book. Selebus is good at writing. He's not writing a book. He should be though, cause his game design sucks. Melville didn't stop you midway through a chapter and stopped you from reading the rest unless you succeed in a quiz.

None of the complaints tend to be about his decisions regarding themes or plots, but just regarding his game design. Also, you can explain your point without overcomplicating things, mastery over a subject is shown by explaining things in a way it's easily understood.

If Selebus was a good game designer he'd be able to convey the same message through a more refined balance of implementing what he wants and user experience. I don't have anything against his overall purpose with the design, I have things against its poor implementation.
 
Nov 22, 2021
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Were you a fan of the Pathologic series? Lots of people used similar arguments for the 2nd game especially. You may enjoy it if you haven't touched it.
Yeah, it's based.

Moby dick is a book. Selebus is good at writing. He's not writing a book. He should be though, cause his game design sucks. Melville didn't stop you midway through a chapter and stopped you from reading the rest unless you succeed in a quiz.

None of the complaints tend to be about his decisions regarding themes or plots, but just regarding his game design. Also, you can explain your point without overcomplicating things, mastery over a subject is shown by explaining things in a way it's easily understood.

If Selebus was a good game designer he'd be able to convey the same message through a more refined balance of implementing what he wants and user experience. I don't have anything against his overall purpose with the design, I have things against its poor implementation.
Please God. How in the world is one going to balance an intentionally negative user experience with a positive user experience? What the hell? You're playing lessons in love and talking about THE USER EXPERIENCE? Bro??? You think LiL is concerned with THE USER EXPERIENCE? Melville would fucking have locked the pages down if he could. Do you imagine authors smiling and shrugging at the thought of readers flipping pages whenever they're bored? Do you think artists enjoy people not engaging with their art and proceeding to make dumbass posts online? Not likely.
 
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Moonflare

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Aug 23, 2023
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Yeah, it's based.


Please God. How in the world is one going to balance an intentionally negative user experience with a positive user experience? What the hell? You're playing lessons in love and talking about THE USER EXPERIENCE? Bro??? You think LiL is concerned with THE USER EXPERIENCE? Melville would fucking have locked the pages down if he could. Do you imagine authors smiling and shrugging at the thought of readers flipping pages whenever they're bored? Do you think artists enjoy people not engaging with their art and proceeding to make dumbass posts online? Not likely.
No, I think LiL is concerned with making money, banning people from discord and making alt accounts to talk to us.

Edit: also with ranting about Lost in You, can't forget that one.
 
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