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iirc Selebus said he hates NTR with a burning passion, I'd be surprised if he includes proper NTR in the game

Imo the Ami rape is NTR in the technical sense but prolly most ppl don't care cos it's between two chars who are in the harem and both r girls. Sekai is technically also in the harem. If there was penis involved I think there'd be a lot more ppl complaining

actually nvm I was looking up the VNDB definition of ntr, I feel like Maya was not "stolen" altho you could argue she was, but Sensei would not b jealous so much as shocked to realize how fucked up Ami is?
Like I said, I don't think it's NTR - and trust that you will find no greater NTR expert than I. However, we have to understand that NTR has grown to be a boogeyman for those who are emotionally fragile and intently possessive. A girl smiling at another guy is NTR; a girl ever having a boyfriend at any time in their life is NTR; a girl having sex before meeting the protagonist is NTR; and, indeed, a girl getting raped is NTR. A popular recent genre of NTR is "BSS" -> Boku ga saki ni suki datta no ni -> "but I liked her first", wherein the NTR is a girl who has never had a relationship with the MC is "stolen" by virtue of falling for another guy. Any world in which a girl does not remain untouched by anyone but the protagonist from birth to death is NTR. Any world in which a girl has any positive or sexual feelings for anyone but the protagonist from birth to death is NTR. Their dream of romance is a nubile virgin saving themselves for the ideal man then giving themselves to him (the purityfriend) as an eternal gift.

This psychology, really, comes from a blend of idealism and a gluttonous streak abetted by a glut of choices. First in the abstract world of fiction we can pursue our ideals unbound by earthly considerations, and for many - dating back to of course the Neolithic era - their "ideal" woman is one completely untouched and wholly devoted. In a sense this I do not decry; I cannot criticize fundamentally one who may yearn for a Maya who has never been fucked senseless by Ami (putting aside the conception that at times these events define us and "a Maya who has never been fucked senseless by Ami is no Maya at all"). The problem is more the gluttony, the gourmand's tongue that develops; a large amount of media caters to this unblemished virgin fetish rather intently, and so while under normal circumstances we may be forced to abandon our idealistic wishes to face the reality that the Virgin Mary of our dreams in fact fucked some random farmer in the back of a sheep pen when Joseph wasn't watching, in the modern world it is fully reasonable for one to absorb themselves completely in harem fantasies where much like in Lessons in Love there exist no men in the world except the protagonist and all girls love him unilaterally. This lack of opposition weakens the mind and spirit until anything outside of that is no longer acceptable - where the mere sight of a rival in love sends one frothing with rage, and THIS is precisely where NTR becomes the eternal boogeyman. Someone leaving their walled garden of gigavirgins will see something like the recent scenes in LiL and start raving about NTR because in their world girls are so pure and devoted that they would rush to immolate themselves in a roaring suicidal fire before there was even a chance of someone other than their beloved touching their skin. Being raped is betrayal; cumming to it is heresy. In their minds Maya and Tsuneyo and so on may now be burning in the ninth circle of hell alongside Judas. Even when faced with the divine fruit of knowledge that is LiL they can turn their back because the harem fantasies of their dreams grow from neighboring trees with abundance. Their walled garden is massive. And so their intolerance for suffering grows. It is a sad state of affairs. Thankfully there is still time for Selebus to delete all these recent scenes and ensure each heroine is wholly devoted/loyal to Sensei and also that every surviving man dies in space. Also it just occurs to me it's ironic that the anti-NTR guy didn't express equal rage at the LITERAL NTR of Haruka - this reflects how it's less the general act NTR itself they dislike and more the personal discomfort they feel at their potential pure waifus being despoiled.

Act 4 - Maya - Adulterer.
 
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Nadekai

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Like I said, I don't think it's NTR - and trust that you will find no greater NTR expert than I. However, we have to understand that NTR has grown to be a boogeyman for those who was emotionally fragile and intently possessive. A girl smiling at another guy is NTR; a girl ever having a boyfriend at any time in their life is NTR; a girl having sex before meeting the protagonist is NTR; and, indeed, a girl getting rapped is NTR. Any world in which a girl does not remain untouched by anyone but the protagonist from birth to death is NTR. Any world in which a girl has any positive or sexual feelings for anyone but the protagonist from birth to death is NTR. Their dream of romance is a nubile virgin saving themselves for the ideal man then giving themselves to him (the purityfriend) as an eternal gift.

This psychology, really, comes from a blend of idealism and a gluttonous streak abetted by a glut of choices. First in the abstract world of fiction we can pursue our ideals unbound by earthly considerations, and for many - dating back to of course the Neolithic era - their "ideal" woman is one completely untouched and wholly devoted. In a sense this I do not decry; I cannot criticize fundamentally one who may yearn for a Maya who has never been fucked senseless by Ami (putting aside the conception that at times these events define us and "a Maya who has never been fucked senseless by Ami is no Maya at all). The problem is more the gluttony, the gourmand's tongue that develops; a large amount of media caters to this unblemished virgin fetish rather intently, and so while under normal circumstances we may be forced to abandon our idealistic wishes to face the reality that the Virgin Mary of our dreams in fact fucked some random farmer in the back of a sheep pen when Joseph wasn't watching, in the modern world it is fully reasonable for one to absorb themselves completely in harem fantasies where much like in Lessons in Love there exist no men in the world except the protagonist and all girls love him unilaterally. This lack of opposition weakens the mind and spirit until anything outside of that is no longer acceptable - where the mere sight of a rival in love sends one frothing with rage, and THIS is precisely where NTR becomes the eternal boogeyman. Someone leaving their walled garden of gigavirgins will see something like the recent scenes in LiL and start raving about NTR because in their world girls are so pure and devoted that they would slit their would immolate themselves to death before there was even a chance of someone other than their beloved touching their skin. Being raped is betrayal; cumming to it is heresy. In their minds Maya and Tsuneyo and so on may now be burning in the ninth circle of hell alongside Judas. Even when faced with the divine fruit of knowledge that is LiL they can turn their back because the harem fantasies of their dreams grow from neighboring trees with abundance. Their walled garden is massive. And so their intolerance for suffering grows. It is a sad state of affairs. Thankfully there is still time for Selebus to delete all these recent scenes and ensure each heroine is wholly devoted/loyal to Sensei and also that every surviving man dies in space. Also it just occurs to me it's ironic that the anti-NTR guy didn't express equal rage at the LITERAL NTR of Haruka - this reflects how it's less the general act NTR itself they dislike and more the personal discomfort they feel at their potential pure waifus being despoiled.

Act 4 - Maya - Adulterer.
... holy shit, a whole essay about NTR ...
 
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Apollo259

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Have to catch up with the thread but I quite enjoyed most of this update. For some reason I wasn't really that interested with the first 1/4 or so of it, but it got me back on board in the 2nd half.
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The end of the update had me reacting like 1995 Street Fighter animated series M. Bison. If you take a look at the top of my tier list you will know why.
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LoveRedHairedGirl

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small note about Yumi that some may have overlooked:
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Yumi's definitely main girl for chapter material. I mean, she always was, but evidence just piles up, and now even HOPE has said so.

Edit: I don't know if HOPE's talking about Akira or Maya here, could be either. Depending on the answer, it changes what he intends to want them (Ayane and Yumi) for.
I mean, HOPE might be talking about Sana. Like, HOPE and other gods wanted Sana to be banged or something. But now it's seems that they don't care about her (why? Maybe it is too late now since Sana is acting like slut now), so HOPE changed his aim towards other girls who can be corrupted (virgin) yet not that perverted.
Or that's Selebus just telling us that he fucked up and give up on making proper Sana chapter and decided to make it Yumi chapter:ROFLMAO:
 
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FireCazador

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Well, with a more clean mind i retake where i left and im finding it very interesting, top tier update.
But this scene confuses me a bit
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Edit: Oh boy, still getting through and then this:
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LoveRedHairedGirl

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Well, with a more clean mind i retake where i left and im finding it very interesting, top tier update.
But this scene confuses me a bit
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I think it is fake Ayane, based on Ayane from our timeline. Like, since everyone but Makoto, Ami and Maya exploded in the end of this scene, it is likely some fake alternative version of our main timeline.
But gosh... I feel brain damage from thinking too much about it.
 
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Detective Dc345

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small note about Yumi that some may have overlooked:
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Yumi's definitely main girl for chapter material. I mean, she always was, but evidence just piles up, and now even HOPE has said so.

Edit: I don't know if HOPE's talking about Akira or Maya here, could be either. Depending on the answer, it changes what he intends to want them (Ayane and Yumi) for.
Maybe Hope is referring to Yumi in this? She is known by another name (a name that has not been mentioned or brought up or mentioned ever again) Maybe she has a Sensei-esque brain blockage and once she hears that name again she'll regain some memories.
 

Moonflare

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Maya loves it.
This is a rather underwhelming explanation of what happened lol

tbh I didn't even register that the scene could be considered as ntr because, crazy as it will sound, but listen to me, I think we're over ntr at the moment. Let's first address that specific scene, I say this for two reasons:
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tldr is that I think LiL has made such a tangled mess of things that ntr doesn't even cover it anymore, we're way beyond it.
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As for the other ntr scenes, hard to judge anything related to Maya for the same reasons. Tsuneyo x Sekai was a dream pretty much, and if not a dream, it was a reality that existed and then went poof right after. Which is another can of worms because if we count what happened before it was reset, then we're living in the eternal harem (of everyone fucking everyone) but of forgetful people.
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Last note, mind you, I personally hate netorare and Otoha kissing Niki is probably one of the worst moments in the game for me. But looking at the state of this story as it gets more and more complicated (and uncertain), I find myself not even taking notice anymore. Don't know what to make of that either.
 

Algorist

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This is a rather underwhelming explanation of what happened lol

tbh I didn't even register that the scene could be considered as ntr because, crazy as it will sound, but listen to me, I think we're over ntr at the moment. Let's first address that specific scene, I say this for two reasons:
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tldr is that I think LiL has made such a tangled mess of things that ntr doesn't even cover it anymore, we're way beyond it.
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As for the other ntr scenes, hard to judge anything related to Maya for the same reasons. Tsuneyo x Sekai was a dream pretty much, and if not a dream, it was a reality that existed and then went poof right after. Which is another can of worms because if we count what happened before it was reset, then we're living in the eternal harem (of everyone fucking everyone) but of forgetful people.
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Last note, mind you, I personally hate netorare and Otoha kissing Niki is probably one of the worst moments in the game for me. But looking at the state of this story as it gets more and more complicated (and uncertain), I find myself not even taking notice anymore. Don't know what to make of that either.
Exactly, when the narrator said "can this be considered NTR, blah blah", I was like, NTR? Wut. Didn't even notice anything lol.

EDIT: Regarding the direction he's taking, what's happening there I think, is that Selebus wants to hurt the overly-sensitive-to-anything-anywhere-near-NTR people that read LiL. That's the impression I get at least. I don't know if that's accurate or not, or even a good move. Could certainly harm his income, but I think at this point it won't.
 
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anothersilo

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Jun 2, 2021
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Exactly, when the narrator said "can this be considered NTR, blah blah", I was like, NTR? Wut. Didn't even notice anything lol.

EDIT: Regarding the direction he's taking, what's happening there I think, is that Selebus wants to hurt the overly-sensitive-to-anything-anywhere-near-NTR people that read LiL. That's the impression I get at least. I don't know if that's accurate or not, or even a good move. Could certainly harm his income, but I think at this point it won't.
Yeah, I mean, I personally didn't consider that scene to be NTR either. To me, it was just another one of the game's patented fucked up sex scenes, which don't bother me, but I also don't think add anything to the game.
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With that said, I can totally see how other people would consider it NTR. I don't think people bothered by the scene are "overly-sensitive-to-anything-anywhere-near-NTR people." Some people view girl-on-girl the same as guy-on-girl and I do not think that's inherently wrong. If anything, it's probably less sexist. And I can see how getting NTRed after years of investing into a game and characters could make people very upset. And that scene clearly turned some people off the game.

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I think it's a very weird choice for Selebus to be adding more things that border on NTR to this game, because if he keeps edging the line, he will just push more and more people away. Maybe he's trying to hurt a specific group of people who play the game. But...why???? His game has not grown in years. His Subscribstar's back down to 9.8k. He lost subscribers after this update. And he's been adding custom non-cannon renders to the game and setting goals to try to get more money recently, so it clearly matters to him. It just feels like he's shooting himself in the foot. I want to see this game finished eventually, and at the rate he's going I'm worried at the very least we might eventually get much longer update times if he needs to get a real job to support himself.
 
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LessonsInDissonance

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This is a rather underwhelming explanation of what happened lol

tbh I didn't even register that the scene could be considered as ntr because, crazy as it will sound, but listen to me, I think we're over ntr at the moment. Let's first address that specific scene, I say this for two reasons:
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tldr is that I think LiL has made such a tangled mess of things that ntr doesn't even cover it anymore, we're way beyond it.
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As for the other ntr scenes, hard to judge anything related to Maya for the same reasons. Tsuneyo x Sekai was a dream pretty much, and if not a dream, it was a reality that existed and then went poof right after. Which is another can of worms because if we count what happened before it was reset, then we're living in the eternal harem (of everyone fucking everyone) but of forgetful people.
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Last note, mind you, I personally hate netorare and Otoha kissing Niki is probably one of the worst moments in the game for me. But looking at the state of this story as it gets more and more complicated (and uncertain), I find myself not even taking notice anymore. Don't know what to make of that either.
If it's two girls from your harem kissing each other, it doesn't feel like NTR

Call it Male evolutionary bias, but I'd let my harem of GIRLS screw other GIRLS as long as they know who their daddy is.

TLDR; it doesn't matter how many titties or pussies are there, as long as the only cock is mine.
 

JelF547

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Depends on if you considered the Sekai X Tsuneyo scene from last update NTR I guess. The scene from this update probably upset more people because A) Tsuneyo and Sensei weren't actually involved and B) as far as I've seen, Tsuneyo's ranked pretty low on most people's tierlists.

But yeah, to answer your question
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Yes it is cannon, no it is not a hallucination.
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I actually have a theory that new Maya and Maya prime are the same person, new Maya just travelled to 4th chapter right from pre-resets. And we've just seen the reason Maya loves Ami so much. Also, probably it's Ami who taught Maya about resets.

Also, an empty notebook we've seen in Ayane timeline was probably Maya's property. I can see how Ami was just erased few updates before and Maya just hides this information from Ayane. This explains how could she forget all the shit and just make up facts like 4 resets with autopilot Sensei. Alternatively, she's just another Maya, but it's boring

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Bingoogus

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I actually have a theory that new Maya and Maya prime are the same person, new Maya just travelled to 4th chapter right from pre-resets. And we've just seen the reason Maya loves Ami so much. Also, probably it's Ami who taught Maya about resets.

Also, an empty notebook we've seen in Ayane timeline was probably Maya's property. I can see how Ami was just erased few updates before and Maya just hides this information from Ayane. This explains how could she forget all the shit and just make up facts like 4 resets with autopilot Sensei. Alternatively, she's just another Maya, but it's boring

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Jesus dude, this is getting to the film 'Primer' levels of convoluted and confusing...
 
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