Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.53.0] [Selebus]

[thebladeofwar]

Spoiler: Sel's take on the wizard route

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Spoiler: Good Uncle

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"Only route I made optional."
This does not bode well for my choice to not go further with Io. How can that be non optional when so far nothing but good things have come of it for the poor girl?

 

[Pedro4545454]

The way this guy talks, you would almost believe that he is in fact writing Akira going down that path, but in reality it's been over 3 million words of "will he, won't he" meandering as he gives him constant justifications and many factors enabling him to do it, in extremely contrived ways too (like the whole Tsubasa arc currently going), while he himself displays inconsistent attitude towards it. Sel can never commit to whether he wants Akira to have a progression or regression arc and quite frankly it's gotten boring a long time ago, especially with how incoherent the transition between those mentalities is. Akira could be sinking in depravity one event, and in the next one he'd be acting like that never happened. It'd be one thing if this was Chapter 1 or even 2, but again, failure to commit to a direction of your protagonist and narrative in general after 3 million words is not impressive, to say the least.

It also seems to me like he's ignoring a lot of earlier implications that Akira felt such deep guilt for what he did to "the girl he's so obsessed with" that it would actually make sense for him not to go down that route again. But alas, this is coming from the writer who plays favorites and thinks the characters who have suffered the most are shitty people while the most privileged ones are the epitome of "kindness and empathy".

I'm not going to defend him, I'll just point out something: Selly has already said that he doesn't control the characters, but they control themselves. He said this regarding Chika's case. This may be how he sees the characters in his narrative mind. He's already said that many things happened without him foreseeing them, even though he's the author. So this may be his view of the things that have happened so far. As I said, I'm not defending him so much, as I find some of his statements in these messages quite meaningless.

"Only route I made optional."
This does not bode well for my choice to not go further with Io. How can that be non optional when so far nothing but good things have come of it for the poor girl?

Just because good things happened now doesn't mean bad things won't happen later.

 

[zakvass]

Spoiler: Sel's take on the wizard route

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I don't follow Selebus at all when he says about an arbitrary line in the sand between wizards and other characters.

I mean yes, Sensei is already a pedophile even without raping wizards, but is there really no differences between two situations? I feel like having sex with a 10-year old is a much worse act than having sex with a 16-year old?

Selebus wants us to treat LiL as a serious literary work, but he seriously undermines it with this. At this point, there’s almost no narrative reasons for the sex scenes to even be shown except to appeal to lolicons. All it does is create tonal whiplash where the game tells you that raping someone is bad, but minutes later delivers child rape scene #352, complete with romantic music and poignant descriptions of how hard it is to fit a penis into a kid.

Spoiler: Reason for Wizard Route

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Oh yeah at least he's honest.

 

[Breadtaker]

Man, I'm too easy. Tsubasa was one of my least liked characters. I get that her devious actions are evil at a surface level and probably have a more complicated explanation but that's not enough to make me like her as much as any of the other characters.

Until she gets a scene where she gets to be a normal person with normal person feelings. I like how her love for yuki isn't just some carnal infatuation or sense of responsibility. She likes Yuki's free spirit. While bringing Yuki into her secluded home and searing the image of Yuki in a wedding dress into her mind might give her some joy, Tsubasa recognizes how contradictory her lifestyle is to the type of person Yuki is. Her fantasy is impossible in more ways than one and she knows that. It's a bittersweet but heartwarming relationship.

Bonus points for castrating gang rapists.

 

[thebladeofwar]

Man, I'm too easy. Tsubasa was one of my least liked characters. I get that her devious actions are evil at a surface level and probably have a more complicated explanation but that's not enough to make me like her as much as any of the other characters.

Until she gets a scene where she gets to be a normal person with normal person feelings. I like how her love for yuki isn't just some carnal infatuation or sense of responsibility. She likes Yuki's free spirit. While bringing Yuki into her secluded home and searing the image of Yuki in a wedding dress into her mind might give her some joy, Tsubasa recognizes how contradictory her lifestyle is to the type of person Yuki is. Her fantasy is impossible in more ways than one and she knows that. It's a bittersweet but heartwarming relationship.

Bonus points for castrating gang rapists.

I really like her too, especially because of her helping out Yuki who I love as a character but with

Spoiler: Chapter 4

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[SlidingSubject]

At this point, there’s almost no narrative reasons for the sex scenes to even be shown except to appeal to lolicons. All it does is create tonal whiplash where the game tells you that raping someone is bad, but minutes later delivers child rape scene #352, complete with romantic music and poignant descriptions of how hard it is to fit a penis into a kid.

Remember that this is an AVN, shit ain't for kids. An adult can differentiate good from evil, you don't need a cartoonishly evil villain saying "fucking kids is great" while being shown and decried as the ultimate evil to exist. This ain't a 60s comic, the CCA has no power here.

• Crimes shall never be presented in such a way as to create sympathy for the criminal, to promote distrust of the forces of law and justice, or to inspire others with a desire to imitate criminals.

 

[thebladeofwar]

Remember that this is an AVN, shit ain't for kids. An adult can differentiate good from evil, you don't need a cartoonishly evil villain saying "fucking kids is great" while being shown and decried as the ultimate evil to exist. This ain't a 60s comic, the CCA has no power here.

Whoa someone knowledgeable of the CCA and their bull. You read a lot of comics? I used to, but then shit got so bad and political now I only ever keep up with Venom and even that has gotten next level retarded.

 

[zakvass]

Remember that this is an AVN, shit ain't for kids. An adult can differentiate good from evil, you don't need a cartoonishly evil villain saying "fucking kids is great" while being shown and decried as the ultimate evil to exist. This ain't a 60s comic, the CCA has no power here.

Come on, i’m not proposing any codes, i’m not saying that the game is going to create or embolden lolicons. I’m not offended at all.

All I’m saying is that if we’re judging the game as a serious work of art (and Selebus clearly sees it that way), then there should be a sense of purpose behind every decision the author makes.

Have child rape in your literary work, be my guest, but make it purposeful. And now there’s no purpose except ”lol because i can” and “make money” - by his admission. It makes me feel yucky. Like he’s not taking the gravity of what he talks about seriously.

 

[Pedro4545454]

Regarding this new information regarding the Mages' Route, I really think it's best to keep expectations low regarding the characters' reactions to this. The chance of seeing something groundbreaking or something that will significantly move the plot forward has dropped significantly after Selly's revelation that he's mostly in it for the money. I had some hope that there would be something completely groundbreaking or something like that, but honestly, my expectations for that have completely died.

 

[harrytrumankr]

Spoiler: Sel's take on the wizard route

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Spoiler: My take on the Wizard Route

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I might be rambling on and on, but sometimes I suspect even Sel doesn't know his characters well enough.

 

[TheGoodPastor]

Still it's insane to me to think that Sel has even MORE content planned over just one ending. You said that the plan was to add specific routes when the game was winding down? Has he said those choices would be at the end of the game or would these be newly added past events you might have to replay to follow down particular girls endings? Once again, Ill probably need to learn how to manually change flags with the mod at some point unless I want to go back and fix all the scenes I either missed and needed or intentionally need to miss for the route I want to see.

Neither, you won't have to mess with anything at all when it comes to the purity routes. Like I said they'll be retelling the story so they'll be standalone things, it won't be a case of having to go through the main game to make specific choices and get onto a girls route, that would be way too much of a hassle with the size the game'll be at that point and a cast of 35 girls lol you'll be able to just pick a route on play it - although obviously if you're following along with development we'll be playing them in the order they're released lol

 

[Detective Dc345]

Spoiler: Otoha Event Title

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[harrytrumankr]

I'm not going to defend him, I'll just point out something: Selly has already said that he doesn't control the characters, but they control themselves. He said this regarding Chika's case. This may be how he sees the characters in his narrative mind. He's already said that many things happened without him foreseeing them, even though he's the author. So this may be his view of the things that have happened so far. As I said, I'm not defending him so much, as I find some of his statements in these messages quite meaningless.

you know, that might be the actual reason why Chapter 4 is going to be so long. Sensei doesn't seem to be type of person to drag himself up fast after hitting rock bottom, I doubt he even knows HOW without risking breaking everyone off (e.g. revealing his actions to medical professionals, who IIRC are obligated to report crimes or what not). So he just wanders at that level until eventually someone drags him out. He is expected to not progress at all. From my point of view and perhaps Sel's, that makes sense, so that's how it might just be. And it obviously will take a LONG TIME before he changes, and that will initiate another chapter

Spoiler: Himawari's reaction?

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[thebladeofwar]

Neither, you won't have to mess with anything at all when it comes to the purity routes. Like I said they'll be retelling the story so they'll be standalone things, it won't be a case of having to go through the main game to make specific choices and get onto a girls route, that would be way too much of a hassle with the size the game'll be at that point and a cast of 35 girls lol you'll be able to just pick a route on play it - although obviously if you're following along with development we'll be playing them in the order they're released lol

Well the waiting for release might be pretty extreme for me. Either A: He does Maya first for being pretty much one of the main characters or B: He does Maya last for being pretty much one of the main characters lol

 

[Pedro4545454]

Well the waiting for release might be pretty extreme for me. Either A: He does Maya first for being pretty much one of the main characters or B: He does Maya last for being pretty much one of the main characters lol

Selly has already said that Maya's route will be one of the biggest, if not the biggest, in the game. I foresee him leaving her to be one of the last.

 

[TheGoodPastor]

Well the waiting for release might be pretty extreme for me. Either A: He does Maya first for being pretty much one of the main characters or B: He does Maya last for being pretty much one of the main characters lol

Yeah, I was thinking the same as an Ayane lover. I'm expecting option B personally, Maya/Ayane/Ami as the last three. He'll probably open with Futaba or some shit lol

 

[thebladeofwar]

Selly has already said that Maya's route will be one of the biggest, if not the biggest, in the game. I foresee him leaving her to be one of the last.

I guess good things will have to come to those who wait.

Yeah, I was thinking the same as an Ayane lover. I'm expecting option B personally, Maya/Ayane/Ami as the last three. He'll probably open with Futaba or some shit lol

I wonder how the majority of fans would take that. I have no idea why she has so many events. She has to be a pet favorite or something.

 

[TheGoodPastor]

I don't follow Selebus at all when he says about an arbitrary line in the sand between wizards and other characters.

I mean yes, Sensei is already a pedophile even without raping wizards, but is there really no differences between two situations? I feel like having sex with a 10-year old is a much worse act than having sex with a 16-year old?

I agree they're not the same thing but I think when he said "if he had not already done that before" the comparison he was drawing was with Maya, not the other teenage characters he's currently in relationships with. She was around Chinami's age when their sexual relationship began, which he seemingly remembers entirely now along with the circumstances that made him that way.

Prior to those memories returning he didn't struggle around Chinami or Tsukasa at all and had no issue or concern about being alone with them. Even when Chika egged him into the bathroom whilst Chinami was bathing (assuming you took that option) he didn't have impure thoughts about it and his internal monologue was basically "ah, I guess I had nothing to worry about". Now his memories have returned, though, and since he hasn't addressed the underlying issue at all he's back in the same spot he was in when he started grooming Maya. Narratively I don't find it inconsistent, honestly, and I think that's what Sel was referencing rather than his relationship with his current students.

At this point, there’s almost no narrative reasons for the sex scenes to even be shown except to appeal to lolicons

I tend to agree, honestly I just skip through most of them at this point lol

 

[jclark1337]

Come on, i’m not proposing any codes, i’m not saying that the game is going to create or embolden lolicons. I’m not offended at all.

All I’m saying is that if we’re judging the game as a serious work of art (and Selebus clearly sees it that way), then there should be a sense of purpose behind every decision the author makes.

Have child rape in your literary work, be my guest, but make it purposeful. And now there’s no purpose except ”lol because i can” and “make money” - by his admission. It makes me feel yucky. Like he’s not taking the gravity of what he talks about seriously.

Regarding this new information regarding the Mages' Route, I really think it's best to keep expectations low regarding the characters' reactions to this. The chance of seeing something groundbreaking or something that will significantly move the plot forward has dropped significantly after Selly's revelation that he's mostly in it for the money. I had some hope that there would be something completely groundbreaking or something like that, but honestly, my expectations for that have completely died.

To be clear, he's not saying that he's putting the wizard content in the game because it gets him money. He's saying he included the option to skip the content and thus censor himself in the game because it ends up in more subscribers overall. The reply in the screenshot is answering the question "Why not just stick to your original vision instead of adding the option to skip it at all?"

Just making sure because some of the comments seem to imply that the only reason the wizard content is in the game at all is because of financial benefit, which couldn't be further from the truth. That is a core part of the story he wants to tell.

Spoiler: Full context

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[LessonsInDissonance]

Spoiler: Sel's take on the wizard route

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Spoiler: Reason for Wizard Route

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"Money" is just an excuse, or rather a deflection.
Selebus is a seasoned lolicon and LiL was destined to have Wizard content since its inception, because he loves writing morally fucked up scenarios and enjoys the poison of this particular ivy the most.

I find it bizarre that he tries to save face for this specific thing, when he's already established that he gets hard at the thought of being an insufferable cunt, would've made more sense if he doubled down on him liking it to rile up the anti-magic demacians.

In terms of how the story is going and the motivations, the game is a pure success. I've already mentioned this before, but you have all been unconsciously made to accept morally bad scenarios more easily thanks to some shitty lines in the sand.
You're actively wishing for Akira to have sex with one of your favorite characters that he hasn't had sex with yet, despite you wanting him to get "better" at the same time, it's an oxymoron, he only gets better by not doing it.
Every time you question the "nonsensical" development of X character, question your own contradictions, question if you might actually want things to cross the line, and if you're not willing to admit it, question why are you still playing the game then.