Detective Dc345
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TheGoodPastor
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I'd have to say no considering part of the rub with Himawari here is that our Akira and Ayane are her actual parents though, right? Like, she's not just a random child of theirs from a different timeline, she literally won't exist if they don't get together. A random child of alternate versions of Akira and one of the other girls coming in wouldn't really override that for me, personally, there's no stakes there. I would really like to see what Yumi and Akira's kid would look like now though lol
I get what you're saying about sloppy seconds but I don't think the rest of the girls not being end-game would make them feel pointless, all of the pieces are a vital part of our Akira's growth, that's a big part of the point. I'm also not sure I'd find it particularly elegant if he wound up with everyone or had a more neutral true ending, that could just as easily wind up feeling like a cop out instead. I'm sure I could get behind something more neutral depending on how it's done but I'd much rather Sel have the balls to just pick someone and go for it if that's what he wants to do for the true ending.
Even if it's somehow not Ayane I want the true ending to have him with someone personally, and I think it would make more sense thematically considering his inability to settle on one person is pegged as being the result of his trauma. It's hard for me to see how it could feel like he's really grown if the end result is that he's still completely incapable of not being romantically involved with literally everyone who cares about him. I would hope everyone is still an important part of his life, mind you, instead of a scenario like what we saw in Himawari's little dimension.
As far as the purity routes go it's pretty on brand for a VN to have optional routes for all the girls and a canon one so it's not out of place on the face of it either.
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Moonflare
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I have a lot to say about the Himawari slander (how dare you), but I'll just drop this here in the meantime:
Himawari explains the purity routes as her idea, but what no one managed to notice was the possible link between that and the fate of her parents.
What if her idea is only to *link* the purity routes, her "travel agency" as she puts it? Meaning that her Akira created the purity routes on his own, and that's why he's gone? That could be what Sana is referencing in Ayane's epilogue, and the flash of adult Maya.
All the purity routes are already true, Himawari is canon, but so is everyone else. Himawari is just trying to link all of them, rather than everyone have Akira be gone to another reality after each epilogue.
Give me back my theory cap.
Himawari explains the purity routes as her idea, but what no one managed to notice was the possible link between that and the fate of her parents.
What if her idea is only to *link* the purity routes, her "travel agency" as she puts it? Meaning that her Akira created the purity routes on his own, and that's why he's gone? That could be what Sana is referencing in Ayane's epilogue, and the flash of adult Maya.
All the purity routes are already true, Himawari is canon, but so is everyone else. Himawari is just trying to link all of them, rather than everyone have Akira be gone to another reality after each epilogue.
Give me back my theory cap.
jclark1337
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I'm on the same page with you about Ayane not technically being the OTP just because of 0.53. I have a theory that Himawari and her dream will play a large part to unlocking the happy/purity endings with all of the girls, putting aside her biases and true feelings on the matter, and thematically becoming the "hero" of the story as a whole.
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jclark1337
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Ooh that's good, I didn't think about Akira's own agency in the whole thing. I like it, that would make a lot of sense and feel super satisfying
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Detective Dc345
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DeanNoriko
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Is that confirmed though? How would we know anyway?
Even if Himawari would claim so, it could be a lie, whether with good or bad intentions. She did trick her parents before after all, even if reluctantly.
Because, again, theoretically any other character could just appear and claim the same, "I am your child from the future, you need to sex it up crazy style and stay together or else I will cease to exist, do you really want that?".
Obviously, after 0.53 the impression is that Himawari is genuine and that her intentions are pure and that there is no trickery there.
But it's just not guaranteed is all I'm trying to say.
I like that idea, I just don't think anything that Himawari says in 0.53 hints at Akira having created jack shit.
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But I don't really make the same conclusion as you and interpret her idea of a travel agency as anyone being able to travel between all purity routes, which btw would kind of stink as well since it would somewhat diminish their importance and individuality in a sense. It's like inventing a teleportation device so you don't have to travel all across the globe, which would be super convenient, but would it make vacation better? It would make it more accessible but ultimately also more boring and less special.
Anyway, what I think she means by that is that she wants the given individual to be able to travel to their one purity route freely, without having to reserve it for a different timeline version of themselves, like how it works with the wishes system.
So basically what she did with Akira and Ayane, she mentions that was her test run. You get to experience this ideal world as yourself.
I just don't see one specific purity route to be canon or a true ending. I would much prefer that the true ending would be something different, not the ideal ending for one girl, but just something else.
Otherwise, let's say Maya would be the girl that is chosen for the true ending, would she still get a purity route? How would that differ? Wouldn't this purity route not automatically be inferior and not even be a true purity route if an alternative, true ending exists?
I mean it's just theoretical at this point, obviously, but I just think the most elegant solution would be to give every character their ideal send-off to their purity route, to give closure and a happy end, and then have the final ending be something outside of that.
I just want to remind, as part of our current Himawari discussion, that Ayane has already been pregnant. She was 100% pregnant as part of the reset that she kept her memories in; Post reset she mentions that she felt like she had just lost something important, and forgets that she was pregnant, which mirrors what Akira and Ayane say as part of 0.53's reset. IE, when Himawari resets them and takes their memories.
OR
I lean towards Theory 1, if only because in order for their to be an ultimate timeline, everything will need to converge in the end. Collapsing all the timelines into a single one, which is the version that leads to Aiomori, makes sense from a certain POV.
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OR
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I lean towards Theory 1, if only because in order for their to be an ultimate timeline, everything will need to converge in the end. Collapsing all the timelines into a single one, which is the version that leads to Aiomori, makes sense from a certain POV.
I fully agree with your thoughts on the theme of "fatherhood" being very important to Akira's current development as a character *and* a human being (especially considering that he never had one himself), though I *disagree* with the notion that his relationship with Ami is somehow fundamentally inferior to what he had/will have with Himawari for you to call it "a substitute at best, a compromise". Yes, the thing they have going on right now is GIGA scuffed on every conceivable level, and it will require a fuckton of personal growth on both of their ends in order to reach a point they both *have to be at* for this relationship to properly work out... but if it *does* happen? If the stars align and Ami *truly* opens up to Akira, and he'll have both the mental maturity and the physical means to fully take care of the broken mess that is his niece/daughter and be there for her when she really needs him? Man, shit's going to be GLORIOUS. (…What? You have your Yumi cope, let me have mine.)
I absolutely agree with your post, a very good take once again.
And not to toot my own hornoh well who am I kidding, also to toot my own horn, I did question Himawari's reliability in a post after 0.53 as well:
As you already mentioned, Himawari, just like every other character, has her own intentions. Obviously, it's in her own interest to highlight the importance of Akira & Ayane being her parents and her origins. The events of 0.53 really did feel like a sort of sneak peak at the ending, but yeah, it's hard to argue with something that is being presented to you by an omniscient being that is also your daughter, so you double trust her.
Think about it this way though: If an unknown character started appearing and telling you she is Akira's and Yumi's daughter and that in her timeline, the two got together and had their own happy ending and lived a wonderful life, yadda yadda, would that somehow override Himawari's and their parents experiences? Would this now be the new true ending?
No, logically, there would be a million timelines in which any number of times Akira could have been a happy father and have a loving family and everything went on to be well. The one scenario presented by Himawari (again, only from her telling it and from a different, artificially created wish world that is not based on our Akira and Ayane) would just be one possible example.
In my opinion, the take away from 0.53 should be one thing: That Akira now has a goal. And that is not "I have to be with Ayane and create Himawari and 1:1 recreate what I experienced in this wish world", but much simpler: Fatherhood.
Deep down the essence of what truly made him happy and gave him purpose is that he had a child that he loved, a human being he could form and cherish and that would love him back. A working, loving family without chaos and pain. Something he always felt he missed. Something he thought he found with Ami, but what he may realize only to have been a substitute at best, a compromise.
Therefore, I think that there would be still many viable "true" endings to this.
Right now, I would even tend towards none of the girls to be the girl for him. I would expect something more grand, a last reveal by Sel maybe.
Otherwise, if you think about it, if there was only one girl from the main cast that Akira would experience the true ending with, all the other purity routes would kind of feel like sloppy seconds, no?
It would feel like a consolation prize, something to give out of pity for not being selected as the one. View attachment 5531175
I mean it's entirely possible that that's how it ends, that Maya is the one, or whoever else, and all the rest will have to make do with that.
But I suppose the more elegant way to resolve this whole story would be to make the ultimate ending more...neutral? Objective? Equal? Essentially to wrap it up nicely and not make a lot of the story almost feel pointless when it'll inevitably feel like "Oh it was always about this girl in the end", especially if you were to replay the game.
Also if there will be the pivotal girl in the story, it's gonna turn out to be Yumi, mark my words
As for the rest of it, I honestly have no idea how to even *begin* to envision what this eventual “true” ending of LiL is going to look like. I had my fair share of educated guesses in the past, sure, but they were all made before I learned how the game is *actually* going to be structured, and that knowledge retroactively turned all of my theories into complete impossibilities. For example, I had originally expected LiL to end on a fairly dark and depressing note, but considering that we’ll have an entire Route for that and that the True Ending is going to require you experiencing all of the Purity Routes first, there is basically no chance of that happening – too big of a tonal whiplash.
I *would* like for the True Ending to be something narratively different and unique, though – not just a partial rehash of one of the thirty-five Purity Endings (or anything that came before, for that matter).
TheGoodPastor
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It's confirmed in the sense that it's explicitly stated, yeah. To be clear I'm not at all saying I think she was entirely honest about the whole situation or her goals in 0.53 - she's obviously leaving out something pretty big related to Akira, too - but there's reasons to think or suspect she's not being entirely honest there. There's no reason to doubt that they're her actual parents right now though, if they're just random alts of her actual parents her dedication to our Akira and Ayane specifically doesn't really make sense, she could just go try her luck with another couple instead of risking her job and life sneaking around under a bunch of Gods noses. It's the only explanation we have for her presence, her actions and for the risks she's taking and it's something that's reinforced in her conversations away from Akira with Shiori and (I would say) some of her earlier narrations in the game.
If another kid showed up claiming the exact same thing with Yumi or someone else then yeah, sure, but that's just a what if lol
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Detective Dc345
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TheGoodPastor
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I'm pretty sure there's a good two resets between her losing her virginity to Sensei and the period where she's clearly pregnant, right? So tricky question in that sense.
Himawari appears right at the end of the first proper Happy Event, 'The Room With The Clocks', so that would be before they have sex I think.
She also sells the scarfs Akira buys for Ami and Maya, right? I think that's before Ayane starts acting up because she's pregnant. Could be wrong there though, I'm tired lol
aramaug
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I both agree and disagree with this. I don't think Ami has ever been a good person, though that's more due to fucked up priorities than a lack of capacity for goodness. She's capable of empathy for her friends, but she'll also completely set that aside if it conflicts with her codependent relationship with Sensei.
I think her Chapter 3 character arc is the perfect encapsulation of this. She spent the whole chapter acting like a murderous psychopath who could snap at any moment. Then Ayane confronts her on the beach and it's revealed Ami's behavior was all a bluff, a calculated attempt to scare other people away from Sensei. What she was doing was cruel and selfish, but she wasn't capable of actually hurting anyone (physically). It doesn't sit right with me to turn around and claim this was all a double bluff, and she's actually been murdering people all along (but conveniently stopped when the game started).
Evil Ami has to have always been lurking in some sense, given all the murdering that Maya Prime witnessed (though it's also worth noting that Maya Prime never suspected any continuity between Evil Ami and Normal Ami). Is she a separate entity that sometimes slips into this world? Something that's always in the back of Ami's mind, threatening to take over? If it's the latter, is Evil Ami herself Ami's infection? I don't know the answer.
I do, however, think that there is a clear dividing line between two different Amis: the seventh reset. As I've written about before, I think the Ami who raped Maya and stuck around after the reset is a fundamentally different person than the one who walked into that infinity house. This showed up again in the most recent update: I have a hard time believing the Ami who toyed with Uta this time is the same one who tried to seduce her earlier in the chapter. Her demeanor is completely different.
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I guess I can't rule it out completely, but I don't see any reason to suspect it. Why would they keep it a secret from Akira and Ami? Why would the very religious Saki be fine with her son marrying his own half-sister?
I think you're asking lots of good questions in this post, most of which I'm not going to weigh in on since I have no better answers than you do. I do have an answer for this one particular question which might be surprising: I think Ami still doesn't believe that Sensei is the "real Akira", for whatever her own definition of "real Akira" is (it very well might differ from Maya Prime or Himawari). Maybe I'll finally put a post together on this, though with the discussion already moving on it might not be right away...
crustlord12
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I hate this so much. There is a 100% chance of this going insanely poorly.
Get to it Ara Ara-kun! I'll read anything you write, don't hold out on us.
We're gonna have to build a "Beautiful Mind" hint board at this point. Who here has about 3 miles of red yarn and more thumbtacks than a Mick Foley Hardcore Wrestling Match?
Moonflare
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Okay, so, I have a couple of problems with this.
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FireCazador
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My only point of contention is that Himawari says she made that dream world because she misses her family so much. This doesn't imply that she made it because something bad happened; It could just as likely be that she had to leave them behind to work for the company, in order to play out the events in the past that lead to her creation.
IE, back to my timeloop description. If the universe is self actuating, then she has to go out and complete the events that lead to her creation. Not doing so wouldn't be possible at all, as it's a requirement for the world to function at all. If this takes a long, long time, of course she would miss her family. Having the dream world as she works towards the ending that makes that world possible makes sense.
Bravo - this is exactly how I see things. I even did the events of 0.53.0 a second time to refresh myself.