4.20 star(s) 167 Votes

nZk

「」
Donor
Dec 13, 2016
351
1,204
I enjoyed this VN, I was wondering how this story would progress since I thought everything was said and done already. For me there wasn't any excitement when a new update drops since a couple of updates ago. Overall this was a pretty light hearted story if you don't pick the dick move options. I'm glad it's finished even though the ending was kind of predictable. I'm looking forward what new VNs or story the dev comes up with if there is ever one.
 

yihman1

Knockout Master
May 11, 2017
3,109
10,929
This is an exact example of how some ideas can be bad. The goal here is to get Andi as a love interest option which is fine, but the idea is completely horrible. The "prick" you set Andi up with? Well throughout the game he hasn't done anything that'd make him a prick per se. He had treated Andi well. And now suddenly he's abusing her? And if you accept her love suddenly Mary is OK with it? TONS of awful continuation issue with this simple idea of wanting Andi to be love interest. An example how it isn't easy to write a proper storyline.
That's the genius of it. Andi asking you the one time, "Is he a good man or a bad man"? a while back was possibly a sign he may be abusive. Put yourself in Andi's shoes... Her husband cheating on her split from him... Then you add her Daughter is no longer at home, and with a man old enough to be her father. This is going to give her some urge to cling on to the first man she sees out of loneliness and poor self-confidence, she is RIPE for an abusive man to swoop in there.

A lot of times when it comes to an abusive person it's not immediately apparent. Often times abusers have two distinct personas. One is a mask for the abuse and comes off as a nice guy. I grew up in a home with an abusive step-father. If we went to a barbecue or some party like someone's birthday out in public with other people around he was "Mr Cool". Everyone would think that guy is great, and such a good man. Then when the doors are closed and it is at home, and there is nobody around "Mr Asshole" comes out to play.

Often times it is not some cliche where a woman shows up with a black eye like "I fell down the stairs". Often times people who are physically abused are hit in places clothes can conceal. Often times nobody has a clue. You may think there were no signs, but you never know until you know.
 

RogueKnightUK

Co-Writer: Retrieving The Past
Game Developer
Jul 10, 2018
924
2,441
It's definitely a trend because let's be real, most of the devs are amateur writers who just wish for easy money. Most of them don't realize how difficult it is to write proper ending because all they had were ideas. The challenge is how to combined those ideas and sew them together into one flowing storyline. That's why there are tons of games that were abandoned (gave up) or milked (no clue how to conclude the game).

Imagine if someone asked you, "What kind of story will you write if you're a writer?" You'd easily answer with something (let's say "an action story about a guy saving the world"), but then you'd have a much harder task going into detail (who is the main character? what is the threat to the world? why is this main character the one who can save the world? how do they actually save the world? etc). That's what's happening in most games here.

For this particular game, I always felt the problem is the story really is just life with Mary. Just like Seinfeld, it's essentially a story about nothing. Without a goal in the story, there is no ending to aim for, and most endings would be disappointing. If you read Harry Potter, though most of the story is about Harry's school life, you know the end goal is to beat Voldemort. Each book is taking a step closer to reaching the goal. Such thing doesn't exist in this game because it's just a flat day-to-day life with Mary. It's good, but it isn't exciting.

In most games, at least there are obstacles to overcome before MC could get the girls. In this game, there's really nothing MC needs to do because Mary likes him regardless. I'm afraid the same thing would also happen in Haley's story. It's such a shame because both Mary and especially Haley are extremely likeable characters. I wish they could've been accompanied with better storyline for them to really shine.
This, to me, feels like the most accurate of the thoughts expressed.

Having ideas for a VN is easy. In fact every single day I hear one or another person tell me how they have great ideas for a story. And 95% of the time the ideas they have are the barest sketch of an outline, often merely a single scenario. Few even have even a general story arc thought out from start through climax to conclusion. Instead they have an idea of where a character starts from, and maybe a very general idea of a direction to proceed in.

And all of that is just about whether they actually have a story - it does not at all address whether it will be a good one.

If you are pretty sure you have a great story idea ...

... you are most likely wrong.

It all ties into a thing called 'The Dunning-Kruger Effect' and is why the incompetent are usually so confident they are right, while the truly talented are often riddled with doubts and questions. If you don't have the kind of mind that has strong doubts and endless questions about whether you could do any better, then that is an absolute sign that you don't have the mind that could do better.

In any skill, certain talents and insights are needed. Someone who has those talents can recognize what it takes, and all the pitfalls, risks, etc. They will have doubts, and in having them, will be able to spend the time to answer and resolve them. Those without the necessary talents simply can't see how they are used by others, can't value them, which is why they never learned those talents. They will always fail, and always be absolutely convinced that they did everything right, and the failure is down to outside forces - and those who feel they made no mistakes cannot learn from the mistakes. They never improve.

Lots of those types around, as they make up about one third of all people tested for any particular skill. They will also seem more than just a third, as they are the most confident, and thus the most likely to voice their opinions. So, in forums they'll seem like at least 50%.

It's not a criticism as such, simply a fact. We all have our areas where the Dunning-Kruger effect applies to us, as evidenced by the fact we have all at some point been sure we could do something, been sure something was easy, and then spectacularly failed at it.

To have an idea is easy. To think your idea is great is natural. To be able to expand that idea into an actual story arc that has character development, entertainment, and a message, is far harder. But hardest of all is to be right in thinking that your ideas will be just as good for everyone else.

The dev here at least gave it a go, rather than merely ranted about others attempts. But all we know thus far is he is human and didn't pull off the incredibly rare event of hitting a homerun on his first swing. Now we'll see if the dev can recognize his mistakes and improve for his next go, which is how most of the greats got to be great.

The fact that the Dev made a great start is good. That he finished it at all, is also good, and pretty rare - most VNs get abandoned.
 

ecchifan

Newbie
Mar 15, 2018
75
50
Sure, but could you please be more specific? Which promises that have been made in the story that hasn't been cleared in the story? Not easy to discuss without knowing exactly what you're talking about.

Also, version number is really meaningless, so feel free to pay zero attention on that when it comes to completion.
Well, i'm not a polemical person at all, but to answer your question: where is the threesome with MC, Mary and Simone? There's even a choice when you're at the lake where our cute blonde ask you if you want to have a go with her. The dev just forgot about it or what?
I personally feel a sort of rushing through the end like many people before me already pointed.
 

Steinchen

Well-Known Member
Mar 3, 2017
1,078
2,018
Yes, but better start a new story. The only way, I imagine, Mary discovers herself and her sexual desires. But, male MC is a decent one, so I think the final is right.
i don´t say that the game should continue all games has to end one sonner one later.
But a Proper ending is a must that is my opinion and i think i am not the only one that thinks this way.
 

unevenrm

Member
Nov 3, 2017
430
215
All of you defending them..... bas**rds :)))) Just kiddin'
This endings.... Thei're just.... spoiled my day
 

Vamori

Member
Oct 19, 2018
211
713
That was really fast ending, ive got a feeling that dev team decide to rush this game to the end...Maybe lost interest in this project? or just not satisfied with amount of pledges?
 
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Skylaroo

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2017
1,847
4,857
You may think there were no signs, but you never know until you know.
It's a video game, not real life. If we start allowing "well things don't look like what they've been shown", then there's no point in following the storyline because they can all be fake. Maybe MC is really gay and he just pretended to be in love with Mary. Maybe Mary's dad is involved in child trafficking and kidnapped Mary from her real parents, and MC was the one bankrolling the whole thing. The possibilities are endless and it defeats the purpose of the storytelling.

I understand your point and I agree it definitely happens in real life (and I can also empathize with you as I grew up in an old-school manner where parents hit their child), but if this were to happen in the game, then there needs to be consistency in the character development. Or at the very least a plausible explanation as to why such character exists and hints that it's consistent.

where is the threesome with MC, Mary and Simone?
It already happened on MC's birthday. Did you miss that?
 
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Mytez

Engaged Member
Jul 28, 2017
2,768
12,168
I actually enjoyed the ending, they could have been longer but there wasn't more much to do. The game was essentially over last update, the only thing we needed was an "and they lived happily ever after", and that's what we got. I would have liked the ex ending to actually be a good ending, but aside from that the game had a good enough ending.

Overall the game was a pleasure to play, even if the ending wasn't perfect.
 

BigLurker

Member
Jun 16, 2018
273
404
I enjoyed this VN, I was wondering how this story would progress since I thought everything was said and done already. For me there wasn't any excitement when a new update drops since a couple of updates ago. Overall this was a pretty light hearted story if you don't pick the dick move options. I'm glad it's finished even though the ending was kind of predictable. I'm looking forward what new VNs or story the dev comes up with if there is ever one.
They could have spend 2 updates on the ending though. I agree with you, its that type of story/game. I would be happy if the ending wasnt 5 pictures, explaining stuff. A bit more of an ending, instead of fast "here is your happy ending".

At that point, it's no longer your game though. Asking outsider to help with the story/direction can be good for very specific thing, but mostly be bad because people would be upset that the story is controlled by someone else who isn't the dev. Even a simple patreon polling system is controversial where half support the idea that the patrons got to be involved with the story, while the other half are against the dev being influenced by the patrons. Imagine if you're a dev and you'd have to ask people how to write your story, that'd just make me lose confidence in the dev.
Ehm. I can see that. But I am not one of them. Nothing wrong calling outside help. You do not have to use it, it is still your game. Choices ;)
 
Jan 11, 2018
98
181
At that point, it's no longer your game though. Asking outsider to help with the story/direction can be good for very specific thing, but mostly be bad because people would be upset that the story is controlled by someone else who isn't the dev. Even a simple patreon polling system is controversial where half support the idea that the patrons got to be involved with the story, while the other half are against the dev being influenced by the patrons. Imagine if you're a dev and you'd have to ask people how to write your story, that'd just make me lose confidence in the dev.

This is an exact example of how some ideas can be bad. The goal here is to get Andi as a love interest option which is fine, but the idea is completely horrible. The "prick" you set Andi up with? Well throughout the game he hasn't done anything that'd make him a prick per se. He had treated Andi well. And now suddenly he's abusing her? And if you accept her love suddenly Mary is OK with it? TONS of awful continuation issue with this simple idea of wanting Andi to be love interest. An example how it isn't easy to write a proper storyline.

I definitely understand, it's always disappointing to reach the end of something you like. But sometimes it's better to let it die while you still have good memories. It isn't the best answer, but I don't think the game could get any better if it's continued further. We really don't want Mary to jump the shark (y)
I was reading your comments and maybe I understand a little more, you have to admit the dev could put more detail at least in the main ending(only Mary). No wedding, sex scenes really rushed with one reused render, except Simone's sex scene(Simone ending), almost abandoned idea(BDSM) and few lines of dialogues and narration and a simple screen "thank you for playing".
So, yeah he could have explored more the universe he created, like create more intense scenes in the three-way relationship(different places and poses to spice up) and the possible problems this kind of relationship can have(maybe jealousy) and creative situations with BDSM fetish(why did you put such fetish if you don't want to use?). The quest here is: If you(developer) had so much patience before, and why did you finish in an abrupt way? Insufficient support or upset by someone complaint? I don't know, the mystery is in the air now.
I hope this ending doesn't taint his image, because he has the talent to create a good script, you just need to pay attention to the dialogues, the rush was the issue here.
 
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unevenrm

Member
Nov 3, 2017
430
215
Why in the heaven dev put BDSM and other things with no continue? It's not complete, nahhh...They're just messing around. Or tired. Or something....
 

SavetheDiesel

Member
Feb 10, 2018
187
154
I would say that this is an accurate representation of how this was wrapped up as in it wasn't wrapped up... Wanna get married? Yes or No?

There is no opportunity to fuck Mary's mom anywhere in the story on any branch to my knowledge. That REALLY pisses me off. Why the fuck is she included as such an important character then? Why the fuck do I gotta deal with her so damn much if I never get a shot... even on a bad ending to cram my cock up her ass? It's infuriating. She is by FAR the most attractive female in the game and no matter what we do she winds up fucking that dufas that we for some reason have to set her up with?

Update after update after update I come back to this shit... Maybe this is our opportunity to finally get some action with Andi... Denied... denied, denied, denied, denied, denied... Every time.

Not only do we not get to fuck her, we don't even get to see her fuck some other dude. We don't get to wake up at 2 in the morning and spy on her fucking the guy that for some reason we had to set her up with... Fuck I hate that guy.

It almost sounds like..access denied *drumsound* :D;)

Havent played this last update yet will when a compressed version is out but having read all here it sounds that i´ll have a dissapointment coming up maybe..:(
 

ecchifan

Newbie
Mar 15, 2018
75
50
It already happened on MC's birthday. Did you miss that?
I did miss that, i replayed the game from the choice of the lake and there was no threesome through the end. Maybe i had an old save, it was bugged or probably the dev hadn't implemented the scene yet (this was one i guess). In fact, using an even older save i kept skipping text with the CTRL button, doing the same choices, and the function stopped working at the threesome since i've never seen that. It was a misunderstanding, i'm sorry if bothered you. :(
 
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Skylaroo

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2017
1,847
4,857
So, yeah he could have explored more the universe he created,
If the question is whether the dev could explore the universe some more, then of course the answer is YES. Any story could've been explored some more. That's why we'd keep on going to get more and more superhero movies. We've had many Batman movies up to now, and we'll still have many more Batman movies to come in the future. Story can always be explored.

However, the real question IMO is at what point the dev should stop. Ultimately, IMO this game is about life with Mary. It doesn't mean it has to be from the beginning to the very end (death). I think stopping at the "Let's get married" is very acceptable because there's not enough plot happening to keep going. Even a wedding scene is pretty meaningless because the game won't continue to the point of MC being a father and raising the child with Mary.

To me, if we want to extend the game and explore some more, there needs to be a meaningful purpose for the extension. Unfortunately, this is an extremely light VN where the story is very vanilla and it doesn't leave much room for meaningful addition.
 
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4.20 star(s) 167 Votes