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slick97

Active Member
Dec 2, 2021
661
1,678
Jubei - With my slowly expanding amount of free time - and of course, your permission - I'll see what I can do about putting together some kind of promotional art. I have a few ideas based on some of the in-game renders that could (hopefully) turn out interesting to say the least.
 

Joubei

Lilith Rising
Game Developer
Aug 17, 2021
476
1,322
OK so far i have 2 ideas of hinting at Lilith a bit more subtly in the title:
1: biblical, use a play on words old eve (meaning both adam's biblical wife created because lilith wasn't subservient enough :rolleyes:, and evening)
2: the one i am leaning stronger on and would recommend barring any better ideas, use pre Hebrew name Lilu (i believe Sumerian but might be different Mesopotamian language)

the second one has the advantages of less judeo-christian baggage (a definitive advantage in my opinion), easier naming scheme, and deeper dive into mythos. not to mention is a decent Easter egg and could be used in-game (imagine mc finding references to a Lilu in some texts and what not and then seeking for something to discover that Lilu and Lilitu are the same)

on a side note. i think the main character could be improved by shortening the implied do nothing period between escape and dream. i think that's where most problems with the presented character development arise. just a couple of eurocents tho.
The guideline for the title priority - we should get from first glance (in this order):
1. Sexy
2. Alluring
3. Enticing
4. Fantasy
5. Adventure
6. Mysterious

2 examples:
FreshWomen - plays on the Freshmen that everyone knows, but no one says Freshwomen - and its also literally means the women are young and fun, so you know where and what you'll do.

Being a DIK - you know you'll be part of a fraternity, and you're going to be an asshole / or nice to get in bed with girls. so from the first view you know exactly what's going to happen.

and so "Lilith Rising" gives us the most boxes for now:
Lilith is immediately connected to lust, and being mischievous, "let your wild side out", at the same time Rising means getting better or getting more power - i.e. rising in power or rising the ranks etc. (also its a euphemism for erection).

So all in all its recognizable from the first moment you see, and you get a sense of what you'll be doing. and that Lilith is right at the center of it.

There will be an escalation of power, and you'll be lustful and mischievous, all part of the game.

Biblical - is a bit too clever, and some might take it literally - and think am I playing Jesus or something.
Also Lilitu are a type of demon meaning "daughters of Lilith" and usually are also powerful succubus.

Also I've already shortened ep1 more, removing all the fluff so to speak, you were spot on with that remark.
Less is more in that case.
 

nzn

Member
Aug 9, 2019
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237
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sorry for a bit of a tangential post. nothing personalty against lilith other than the overuse of the name but it can be problematic so i detailed all considerations i could think of. in the end you know the game you are making the best and no-one, not even your marketing team is better suited to decide on a title. however that makes their suggestions and advice no less valid for they know what would gather the public's attention (as long as the bait and switch perception is avoided).

P.S searching steam db for the word lilith returned 16 results on the word in title, 65 total (way more than i expected on steam). tho my ideas do not address that problem all that well either.
 

Joubei

Lilith Rising
Game Developer
Aug 17, 2021
476
1,322
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sorry for a bit of a tangential post. nothing personalty against lilith other than the overuse of the name but it can be problematic so i detailed all considerations i could think of. in the end you know the game you are making the best and no-one, not even your marketing team is better suited to decide on a title. however that makes their suggestions and advice no less valid for they know what would gather the public's attention (as long as the bait and switch perception is avoided).

P.S searching steam db for the word lilith returned 16 results on the word in title, 65 total (way more than i expected on steam). tho my ideas do not address that problem all that well either.
I think Lilitu is part of D&D lore, but it comes from Mesopotamian Mythology as origin,
So Lilith is the mother of monsters the most powerful succubi, and Lilitu is a type of demon, so think of it like a race of demons, while succubus is a specie of demons.
in other words there are many types of succubi one of them is Lilitu, hope this makes sense heh.


Also there is Nocticula (lady of shadows) a succubus that became a lord of hell, also very powerful, more then Lilitu and much less then Lilith.

any rate its a whole thing.
you can get more info about demons and devils from different sources, here is an interesting one:


and another one:


and this:


and yes I've done extensive research on the subjects, so the story will be interesting and meaningful, based on the actual lore and mythology of the actual characters.

(ooo fun times...)
 
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nzn

Member
Aug 9, 2019
399
237
I think Lilitu is part of D&D lore, but it comes from Mesopotamian Mythology as origin,
So Lilith is the mother of monsters the most powerful succubi, and Lilitu is a type of demon, so think of it like a race of demons, while succubus is a specie of demons.
in other words there are many types of succubi one of them is Lilitu, hope this makes sense heh.


Also there is Nocticula (lady of shadows) a succubus that became a lord of hell, also very powerful, more then Lilitu and much less then Lilith.

any rate its a whole thing.
you can get more info about demons and devils from different sources, here is an interesting one:


and another one:


and this:


and yes I've done extensive research on the subjects, so the story will be interesting and meaningful, based on the actual lore and mythology of the actual characters.

(ooo fun times...)
alas d&d lore while incredibly influential deep and interesting has been almost comically wrong when it comes to inspirational material. one only need to look at their handling of dryad and hamadryad to see that as well as a broader impact on modern fantasy (hint they have reversed these which seems to be ground zero for our fantasy dryad perceptions)

the other links are likely going to be very interesting reads for me and i thank you for all of them

this game seems to be shaping like a very good game and i already was optimistic before.
godspeed to you
 
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Joubei

Lilith Rising
Game Developer
Aug 17, 2021
476
1,322
alas d&d lore while incredibly influential deep and interesting has been almost comically wrong when it comes to inspirational material. one only need to look at their handling of dryad and hamadryad to see that as well as a broader impact on modern fantasy (hint they have reversed these which seems to be ground zero for our fantasy dryad perceptions)

the other links are likely going to be very interesting reads for me and i thank you for all of them

this game seems to be shaping like a very good game and i already was optimistic before.
godspeed to you
All true, but entertainment is entertainment so we need to base our stories on common knowledge along with actual myths.
Most of the time - D&D and JRR Tolkin or GRR Martin especially take precedence over actual myth and history.
 

Joshy92

Devoted Member
Mar 25, 2021
11,288
24,973
Finished replaying this the other day And damn it's good will definitely buy it when it launches on steam.
This is going to be a great year for fans of AVNs on steam.
 

slick97

Active Member
Dec 2, 2021
661
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sorry for a bit of a tangential post. nothing personalty against lilith other than the overuse of the name but it can be problematic so i detailed all considerations i could think of. in the end you know the game you are making the best and no-one, not even your marketing team is better suited to decide on a title. however that makes their suggestions and advice no less valid for they know what would gather the public's attention (as long as the bait and switch perception is avoided).

P.S searching steam db for the word lilith returned 16 results on the word in title, 65 total (way more than i expected on steam). tho my ideas do not address that problem all that well either.
The criteria and constraints Jubei has for the title results in a limited combination of words that fulfill both. While I agree Lilith is overused in the VN genre of games, the title itself does include a nice double entendre alongside hitting the mark.

The issue of Lilith's overuse in biblical inspired stories is her representation of raw power as one of the first demons. There aren't many characters to choose from with that kind of power that could present an interesting challenge or twist to a story. Additionally, she's versatile enough to push the plot in any direction the author chooses without relying on tropes or macguffins.
 
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