VN Ren'Py Lilith Rising [v2.0.11ns] [Jubei]

[motseer]

Thanks motseer appreciate it,

I was thinking about:
Lilith Rising: Dark Pawn
Or
Lilith Rising: Pawn’s Gambit

But I’m afraid it’s less sexy… I’m still thinking about options, and such.
If you have more suggestions about the subtitle I’d be happy to hear.

Lilith Rising ticks all the boxes for marketing purposes: not only that it fits the story, as she’s the main antagonist, and the reason for everything, but she’s also famous, immediately connected to sexy, fun, alluring, enticing, fantasy, and mystery, and Rising is gaining power through a long game plan, but also euphemism for erection. So it works perfectly.
Not to mention that it tested amazingly with focus groups and 2 large communities including ours.

Marketing is all about perception, and it’s why different type of people work there then game designers.

The sad truth is that a good game with bad marketing will not sell,
But also a bad game with good marketing will not sell.
Only a good game with good marketing will sell good. It has to be 50/50.
And yes Freshwomen is a perfect example!
So, we should learn from both the mistakes and successes of other devs.

Recently I saw that Beyond two Worlds has sold over 10k in a few months, while Freshwomen sold almost 1mil at the same time period, both on steam.
I talked with Oppai-Man extensively and it’s actually what lead to these changes.

I’d like to tell the full story, and I’d also like to expand the world into prequels and sequels with the prince and other characters as the focus.

And I’d like a team of experts to help me, as now I’m working solo on all rendering, art, coding, and marketing (luckily I have very good consultants).

In the end we’re all bound by funds.

Thanks for the reply and the insights into your motivations. I do get it. I can see why you want to make use of the name Lilith in the title. It just seems to me it ought to be about the protagonist as well. He's the one I'm role playing and, dammit, I want to feel important! JK There are actually a lot of well known tales where the antagonist dominates the marketing, Maleficent would be one example. That title made 100's of millions. Hehe You can only dream. Maybe you could find a way to squeeze a nameless prince into the title. We do all like to rename our protagonists in these things. Maybe "Lilith Rising: Pursuing the Prince", "Lilith Rising: The Princely Pawn" or "Lilith Rising: Passion of the Prince". Hehe Lots of "P" popping in those and some erotic innuendo as well. Whatever you end up with - I'm sure I'll be along for the ride.

 

[Joubei]

Thanks for the reply and the insights into your motivations. I do get it. I can see why you want to make use of the name Lilith in the title. It just seems to me it ought to be about the protagonist as well. He's the one I'm role playing and, dammit, I want to feel important! JK There are actually a lot of well known tales where the antagonist dominates the marketing, Maleficent would be one example. That title made 100's of millions. Hehe You can only dream. Maybe you could find a way to squeeze a nameless prince into the title. We do all like to rename our protagonists in these things. Maybe "Lilith Rising: Pursuing the Prince", "Lilith Rising: The Princely Pawn" or "Lilith Rising: Passion of the Prince". Hehe Lots of "P" popping in those and some erotic innuendo as well. Whatever you end up with - I'm sure I'll be along for the ride.

I'll have new sigs made soon, btw, its on my list

 

[motseer]

One last thought. If you change "Age of Heroines" to "The Heroic Age" or "Age of Paragons" you make the subtitle gender neutral and it becomes pertinent to the protagonist AND his followers.

 

[hitmebaby]

First the story is not only written for season 1 but for all the 4 seasons of this story,
I even outlined a few possible sequels and spin-offs for the future but this story has been complete before the first frame.

The name and art are pure marketing - and the release here on f95 is "early access" it is not the full game, or the initial release, and I've said so at the start several times. You guys are helping me develop the game in the form of feedback, comments and opinions, and I respect and appreciate all of you.

Both the story and the characters are designed complete with personalities but there is enough flexibility to add or change their reactions and you guys have seen it several times - for example the whole forced-sex scene with Jezz for instance (which was a great insight here on f95) it took lots of thinking, then fixing up the dialogue branches, adding a few more frames and it was good to go, I hope you agree that the new version is better.

Second - marketing is a separate department in game companies from the game development and games (and movies) are in the end a business, i.e. they must generate income.
This is how the game business generates income:
1. Marketing is for acquisition - i.e. getting people to see the game / play it (click to see then buy it)
2. The content is for retention - i.e. to get people to stay (not ask for a refund and give good reviews)
3. And the DLC, sequels and future episodes / seasons are for retention - i.e. get these players to become a community.

Without marketing - none of this is relevant and is why so few games are able to even exist - at the very least they should cover their cost, if not make a little profit.

Our old title (as much as I liked it) - did not work!
People in general had no idea what it meant and we had a tiny community of about 50 Patreons and about 300 followers.
That's not viable in the long run.

After the name change and art upgrade - our community has grown 2x!! in 2 week - (compared to almost 6 months with the previous title) and that's without releasing ep3 which will have tons of improvements - to include most of the feedback we had here on this very thread, and other places.

THIS IS NOT BY COMMETTE!

I'm taking in all the feedback and making decisions according to both business and story.
Might be hard to understand but without the funds I will not be able to keep doing this - at all!
Like not even 1 frame after season 1 will be out.

My goal - and I've said it from the start - is to gather feedback here and launch the best game on steam!
So again - this is early access - and everything including the title is WIP. (it still is even after we launch).

Its ok if a few people will get upset and I understand that, but compared to thousands of people that will actually click on the game and buy it because the title makes more sense, understandable and projects sexy, fun, and interesting experience.

Yeah it was a tough decision but I had to do it.

I asked people what Tainted means - only 1 our of 100 was able to tell me!!! - AND he was not from north America!
This was bad!
Which means on steam when we get tons of traffic, most people will see it - 99% will go "HUH" and just keep on scrolling.

When I showed Lilith Rising to people - they ALL had a silly smile on their face and said "NICE" when does it come out!

Now with the new title if people will see it - most will say - ooooo that looks interesting.

That's the difference.

HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE STORY OR CHARACTERS!

Marketing is not Game development

Between us - I HATE marketing!

It's been super stressful few weeks, with this marketing push, but I'm very happy with the results.
And very happy with the direction.

I truly hope you'll stay with me for the next bit.

But it will be your choice.

Bro, stick to your guts.
As the wiser pervs here said; you are falling for the marketing bs.
It is a porn game.
Every perv and their mother will click on the big tit bitch on the thumbnail. The new title will have no marketing benefit whatsoever and it might actually harm your game since it is a big convoluted title that alludes to future events and hidden character which none of us got from playing the beginning.
I refuse to believe your average gamer can't get the message from the expression 'tainted' even if they are not able to explain it.
You gave 'Freshwomen' to your point and I will refute it with another; 'Eternum' is fucking latim, which no one even speaks, and yet is a extremely successful and a way better game than 'Freshwomen'.
It is the porn that will sell it not the title, and the porn is in the thumbnail and the tags that are searched on steam. I don't think ppl search games to play by guessing words in the title.
Trust yourself! You thought of the story, you made the game and you named it 'Tainted'. Don't let others make your decisions for you.

 

[hitmebaby]

I would also like to point out that my comment above ^ is number 666 which means it was actually Satan, lord of porn, speaking through me and thus it is unquestionably the truth.

 

[motseer]

I would also like to point out that my comment above ^ is number 666 which means it was actually Satan, lord of porn, speaking through me and thus it is unquestionably the truth.

Says the Father of Lies...

 

[PapaPhat]

First the story is not only written for season 1 but for all the 4 seasons of this story,
I even outlined a few possible sequels and spin-offs for the future but this story has been complete before the first frame.

The name and art are pure marketing - and the release here on f95 is "early access" it is not the full game, or the initial release, and I've said so at the start several times. You guys are helping me develop the game in the form of feedback, comments and opinions, and I respect and appreciate all of you.

Both the story and the characters are designed complete with personalities but there is enough flexibility to add or change their reactions and you guys have seen it several times - for example the whole forced-sex scene with Jezz for instance (which was a great insight here on f95) it took lots of thinking, then fixing up the dialogue branches, adding a few more frames and it was good to go, I hope you agree that the new version is better.

Second - marketing is a separate department in game companies from the game development and games (and movies) are in the end a business, i.e. they must generate income.
This is how the game business generates income:
1. Marketing is for acquisition - i.e. getting people to see the game / play it (click to see then buy it)
2. The content is for retention - i.e. to get people to stay (not ask for a refund and give good reviews)
3. And the DLC, sequels and future episodes / seasons are for retention - i.e. get these players to become a community.

Without marketing - none of this is relevant and is why so few games are able to even exist - at the very least they should cover their cost, if not make a little profit.

Our old title (as much as I liked it) - did not work!
People in general had no idea what it meant and we had a tiny community of about 50 Patreons and about 300 followers.
That's not viable in the long run.

After the name change and art upgrade - our community has grown 2x!! in 2 week - (compared to almost 6 months with the previous title) and that's without releasing ep3 which will have tons of improvements - to include most of the feedback we had here on this very thread, and other places.

THIS IS NOT BY COMMETTE!

I'm taking in all the feedback and making decisions according to both business and story.
Might be hard to understand but without the funds I will not be able to keep doing this - at all!
Like not even 1 frame after season 1 will be out.

My goal - and I've said it from the start - is to gather feedback here and launch the best game on steam!
So again - this is early access - and everything including the title is WIP. (it still is even after we launch).

Its ok if a few people will get upset and I understand that, but compared to thousands of people that will actually click on the game and buy it because the title makes more sense, understandable and projects sexy, fun, and interesting experience.

Yeah it was a tough decision but I had to do it.

I asked people what Tainted means - only 1 our of 100 was able to tell me!!! - AND he was not from north America!
This was bad!
Which means on steam when we get tons of traffic, most people will see it - 99% will go "HUH" and just keep on scrolling.

When I showed Lilith Rising to people - they ALL had a silly smile on their face and said "NICE" when does it come out!

Now with the new title if people will see it - most will say - ooooo that looks interesting.

That's the difference.

HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE STORY OR CHARACTERS!

Marketing is not Game development

Between us - I HATE marketing!

It's been super stressful few weeks, with this marketing push, but I'm very happy with the results.
And very happy with the direction.

I truly hope you'll stay with me for the next bit.

But it will be your choice.

I too detest marketing. If you were allowing marketing to form your story, I would NOT be here. But, some random thoughts in response to your eloquent and timely reply...

"Lilith, female demonic figure of Jewish folklore. Her name and personality are thought to be derived from the class of Mesopotamian demons called lilû (feminine: lilītu), and the name is usually translated as 'night monster.'" Quote courtesy of Encyclopedia Britannica.

Lilith has also been depicted in various fictional forms as the "Queen of the Damned" and other heinously evil incarnations. Using Lilith in the name of this title is a huge mistake IMHO as it removes the focus from the male protagonist and seats it squarely on Lilith. Instead of a man tainted with the evil by which he finds himself surrounded our attention is immediately drawn to Lilith as the center of the story. I find that misleading if it is not the case and discouraging if it is, in fact, the situation at hand. I prefer stories with a male protagonist. The new title suggests the story focus is no longer on the central male protagonist. That is the main reason for my earlier commentary. IMHO, Tainted was a much better title...

I will never tell you how to make your art yet I do reserve the right to my own opinions. What you think about and do with those opinions is your own. I still strongly disagree with this new title yet totally respect your commitment to the story you have already written. That is actually exactly what I needed to hear to stand behind you all the way. As my dear friend, Motseer, pointed out, I can be "one hell of a champion" for your work. I am a crippled old pensioner on a tiny disability stipend so, unfortunately, I am unable to assist this project financially. However, when I love a title I tend to tell anyone who will listen and say glorious things in posts as well as helping new players find what they seek and get the most out of the game.

Since I believe your earnest reply, I am still with you and will make an earnest attempt to get into gameplay this evening. I've had this DL'd for several days but it has been in a holding pattern on a list of no less than a dozen other titles and updates awaiting my attention. I also assist my developer friends with grammatical editing, finding appropriate royalty free music for soundtrack use and no small amount of apha, beta and pre-release play testing. I still say the new title blows but a rose by any other name would smell as sweet so this is the last I will comment on the name. I will play and hope to be impressed. I am already impressed by your wonderful art work or you wouldn't be reading this now, I would've vaporized and moved on. If I lodge a complaint or make a suggestion, that usually means I like most of what I see. I DL and try hundreds and hundreds of titles from F95 searching for the true gems. When I find them, I cherish them and always gush forth with praise for them. I don't bother with substandard titles. They just aren't worth the time to spend typing a comment. If I don't like something, I simply delete it and move on. Your glorious goddess creations captured and have held my attention, my friend. If the story matches that supreme quality, you have a hit with any name. Thank you for your many long hours invested to provide us with this AVN work of art.

Adventure ever on, Phat

To die for gorgeous gals in here!!!

 

[motseer]

I too detest marketing. If you were allowing marketing to form your story, I would NOT be here. But, some random thoughts in response to your eloquent and timely reply...

"Lilith, female demonic figure of Jewish folklore. Her name and personality are thought to be derived from the class of Mesopotamian demons called lilû (feminine: lilītu), and the name is usually translated as 'night monster.'" Quote courtesy of Encyclopedia Britannica.

Lilith has also been depicted in various fictional forms and the "Queen of the Damned" and other heinously evil incarnations. Using Lilith in the name of this title is a huge mistake IMHO as it removes the focus from the male protagonist and seats it squarely on Lilith. Instead of a man tainted with the evil by which he finds himself surrounded our attention is immediately drawn to Lilith as the center of the story. I find that misleading if it is not the case and discouraging if it is, in fact, the situation at hand. I prefer stories with a male protagonist. The new title suggests the story focus is no longer on the central male protagonist. That is the main reason for my earlier commentary. IMHO, Tainted was a much better title...

I will never tell you how to make your art yet I do reserve the right to my own opinions. What you think about and do with those opinions is your own. I still strongly disagree with this new title yet totally respect your commitment to the story you have already written. That is actually exactly what I needed to hear to stand behind you all the way. As my dear friend, Motseer, pointed out, I can be "one hell of a champion" for your work. I am a crippled old pensioner on a tiny disability stipend so, unfortunately, I am unable to assist this project financially. However, when I love a title I tend to tell anyone who will listen and say glorious things in posts as well as helping new players find what they seek and get the most out of the game.

Since I believe your earnest reply, I am still with you and will make an earnest attempt to get into gameplay this evening. I've had this DL'd for several days but it has been in a holding pattern on a list of no less than a dozen other titles and updates awaiting my attention. I also assist my developer friends with grammatical editing, finding appropriate royalty free music for soundtrack use and no small amount of apha, beta and pre-release play testing. I still say the new title blows but a rose by any other name would smell as sweet so this is the last I will comment on the name. I will play and hope to be impressed. I am already impressed by your wonderful art work or you wouldn't be reading this now, I would've vaporized and moved on. If I lodge a complaint or make a suggestion, that usually means I like most of what I see. I DL and try hundreds and hundreds of titles from F95 searching for the true gems. When I find them, I cherish them and always gush forth with praise for them. I don't bother with substandard titles. They just aren't worth the time to spend typing a comment. If I don't like something, I simply delete it and move on. Your glorious goddess creations captured and have held my attention, my friend. If the story matches that supreme quality, you have a hit with any name. Thank you for your many long hours invested to provide us with this AVN work of art.

Adventure ever on, Phat

To die for gorgeous gals in here!!!
View attachment 2621246

Loved the comment. Loved the pic even more!

 

[PapaPhat]

Loved the comment. Loved the pic even more!

Thanks, my friend The impeccably high level of detail in the imagery is second to none!

 

[motseer]

Thanks, my friend The impeccably high level of detail in the imagery is second to none!

All of the MC's companions are absolutely gorgeous. Gwen may be the most beautiful of all but, Freya has stolen my heart already. Definitely #1 girl. You'll love her, I'm sure - It's a good thing Jesse doesn't get jealous. The story is lookin' good. Joubei's writing is good and I'm sure it will only get better. At this point probably just a little ahead of where D was at the start. Overall I'm very enthusiastic and I think you will like it. Needless to say, the art is already top tier. Joubei is definitely an excellent graphic artist and some of the action sequences in chapter 1 will knock your socks off.

 

[Havik79]

You what, Tainted made sense clearly it was something to do with corruption, now all I think is who the fuck is Lilith and what is she rising to, this name makes less sense to me than the old one.

Tainted sounded like you play a guy corrupting women or fighting corruption, Lilith Rising sounds like a game where you play a ridiculously oversized big dick futa either fucking females or femboys, or lesbian strapon/pegging game.

 

[Joubei]

Ep3 update will include tons of upgrades and fixes for ep1 and 2, so I would recommend a quick replay
here is a tiny preview for you:

Upgraded Freja sex scene, enjoy

 

[Joubei]

You what, Tainted made sense clearly it was something to do with corruption, now all I think is who the fuck is Lilith and what is she rising to, this name makes less sense to me than the old one.

Tainted sounded like you play a guy corrupting women or fighting corruption, Lilith Rising sounds like a game where you play a ridiculously oversized big dick futa either fucking females or femboys, or lesbian strapon/pegging game.

Sadly it only made sense to you, me and a few others, mostly non-english natives,
but most north americans really don't know english that well...
and they are the core audience sadly.

Lilith is the main antagonist in the story, so the title fits.

BUT I think I need to change the sub-title as it doesn't quite fit.
Right now the 3 leading options are:
1. Lilith Rising: Dark Pawn
2. Lilith Rising: Dark Knight
3. Lilith Rising: Pawn's Gambit

but we'll have to stick with Lilith, as it tested over the roof, from all other options,
and I've tried over 100 options, the best ones I even brought to a poll on patreon, and still Lilith Rising took first.

Focus group is a marketing tool to see if we're hitting the meaning / perception that people will actually click on it.

You are attached to Tainted as you know the story, and you understand the meaning,
but marketing is to get new people to try the game,

and so far for the past 6 months, it has been very very slow and bad.
Since the name change the community has grown 2x in 2 weeks!!!
this is amazing results all by itself,

and we should rejoice as now we'll be able to enjoy time with our Goddesses for much longer if this is a commercial success, and I'll also be able to hire a team and produce high quality game content faster!

 

[hitmebaby]

Sadly it only made sense to you, me and a few others, mostly non-english natives,
but most north americans really don't know english that well...
and they are the core audience sadly.

Lilith is the main antagonist in the story, so the title fits.

BUT I think I need to change the sub-title as it doesn't quite fit.
Right now the 3 leading options are:
1. Lilith Rising: Dark Pawn
2. Lilith Rising: Dark Knight
3. Lilith Rising: Pawn's Gambit

but we'll have to stick with Lilith, as it tested over the roof, from all other options,
and I've tried over 100 options, the best ones I even brought to a poll on patreon, and still Lilith Rising took first.

Focus group is a marketing tool to see if we're hitting the meaning / perception that people will actually click on it.

You are attached to Tainted as you know the story, and you understand the meaning,
but marketing is to get new people to try the game,

and so far for the past 6 months, it has been very very slow and bad.
Since the name change the community has grown 2x in 2 weeks!!!
this is amazing results all by itself,

and we should rejoice as now we'll be able to enjoy time with our Goddesses for much longer if this is a commercial success, and I'll also be able to hire a team and produce high quality game content faster!

1-You are mistaken about the general public not getting 'Tainted' or even the need for them to get it.
2-You are mistaken about the cause of the growth in supporters being the name change.
3-You are probably a bit anxious and letting yourself be led by a sunk cost fallacy reasoning.

First, I think the 'Eternum' example I gave suffice.

Second, your growth has nothing to do with the title. If you hadn't changed the title, growth would still happen. It is the natural progression; as you put more content out and better, more ppl start to notice it and support it. Also, do you think that 50 paying ppl that believe in a project that, at the time, had 5 minutes of content is not good enough? That is how every developer here progresses, and most developers I see here giving up are the ones with unrealistic expectations wanting immediate results.

About marketing, I don't see how focus group is relevant here since there is no place for players to select your game by clicking. Game platforms are not youtube and ppl don't search games by clicking but by filters(genre, etc).

Still on marketing, something that is more relevant to you is Branding⟨™⟩. More important than trying to let the masses blindly dictate the game(which is a fatal mistake) is your brand. For your marketing success your brand has to be memorable and instantly recognizable. The title has to impact ppl quickly and easily. Ppl don't remember nor are impacted by long names. 'Tainted'⟨™⟩ is a way stronger brand than 'Lillith's Rising: Age of the wtv Hot Bitches'⟨™⟩.

Third, since you put some energy and time doing polls and talking to "experts" you might not want to believe the result you arrived at is not the better one. You don't want to feel all that was in vain. And it wasn't, you may have learned things. Just because you spent a lot of energy on something it doesn't necessarily make it better than something else you did spent little effort in. Your growth was not because of the title.

Good luck!

 

[Joubei]

1-You are mistaken about the general public not getting 'Tainted' or even the need for them to get it.
2-You are mistaken about the cause of the growth in supporters being the name change.
3-You are probably a bit anxious and letting yourself be led by a sunk cost fallacy reasoning.

First, I think the 'Eternum' example I gave suffice.

Second, your growth has nothing to do with the title. If you hadn't changed the title, growth would still happen. It is the natural progression; as you put more content out and better, more ppl start to notice it and support it. Also, do you think that 50 paying ppl that believe in a project that, at the time, had 5 minutes of content is not good enough? That is how every developer here progresses, and most developers I see here giving up are the ones with unrealistic expectations wanting immediate results.

About marketing, I don't see how focus group is relevant here since there is no place for players to select your game by clicking. Game platforms are not youtube and ppl don't search games by clicking but by filters(genre, etc).

Still on marketing, something that is more relevant to you is Branding⟨™⟩. More important than trying to let the masses blindly dictate the game(which is a fatal mistake) is your brand. For your marketing success your brand has to be memorable and instantly recognizable. The title has to impact ppl quickly and easily. Ppl don't remember nor are impacted by long names. 'Tainted'⟨™⟩ is a way stronger brand than 'Lillith's Rising: Age of the wtv Hot Bitches'⟨™⟩.

Third, since you put some energy and time doing polls and talking to "experts" you might not want to believe the result you arrived at is not the better one. You don't want to feel all that was in vain. And it wasn't, you may have learned things. Just because you spent a lot of energy on something it doesn't necessarily make it better than something else you did spent little effort in. Your growth was not because of the title.

Good luck!

I can't find Eternum on Steam, is it on other platforms?
how do you measure success?
AFAIK the only measure is $ earned, and I can't find figures for that game.

I do see a nice following on patreon, but that is a nice monthly income, and is not in the same scale as Being a DIK or Freshwomen which also have the same amount of patreons (if not more).
But these 2 also amazing numbers on steam (closer to 1mil sales each)!!! you simply can't put this to scale with any other AVN to date.

Also what you've mentioned is the steady growth that I've seen over the past 6 months, that organically ended up with about 40+ patreons, which is far from ideal, now we have twice that, and more followers on itch as well, there is a massive spike in the last 2 weeks. I watch the analytics daily, the tools for developers on those sites are very good for these stat gathering.

 

[PapaPhat]

Lilith Rising: Dark Knight

Yes... it sounds like Batman but it is much better than the lame, nerdy chess clichés.

TBH, BOTH of Motseer's suggestions were better than any of those three...

I wasn't going to say any more regarding the title but it is still under discussion. Just my two cents worth.

"The Heroic Age" or "Age of Paragons"

 

[PapaPhat]

I can't find Eternum on Steam, is it on other platforms?

IDK about Steam but Eternum is here on F95... https://f95zone.to/threads/eternum-v0-5-public-caribdis.93340/

I would not usually post a link to another dev's title here in your forum but since you, the dev for the title of this forum, are the one asking, there it is. There are folks that go crazy over that title. I, for one, am NOT one of them. I find the story premise a bit too shallow, even a bit silly for my taste and I am NOT a fan of that Honey Select style character rendering. It's actually one of the the better titles that use that rendering style but it's still not my thing. I will ALWAYS prefer realistic character rendering, the more realistic the better. THAT is what drew me in to this title Tainted aka Lilith Rising (still having difficulty with that clunky name) that drop dead gorgeous, nearly photorealistic masterpiece level artwork!
AWESOME!!!

On another note, THANK YOU for the heads up that there will be changes in the game in the third chapter that will warrant a replay. I truly appreciate knowing this in advance so I can wait until chapter 3 update drops to play this title. I just dropped another title one or two days ago for making me restart for a third time and adding things that made the game even MORE grindy than it was previously, like extra screens to provide updates I didn't request for things I already know that require additional select and close operations just to do what used to take only one click. Yeah... I'm not big on having to keep restarting the game over and over. It gets old with the quickness. If I choose to replay a title because I love it, that is a good thing. Making me restart a game is NEVER a good thing. From what you were saying, Joubei, this would be more of replay to see the new image quality rather than "Ooops, the dev fed up and changed a bunch of things that voided all of your earlier saved games." So, no hard feeling and I will still wait. I have high expectations and even higher hopes for this title, whatever it will be called, because the renders are perfection already IMHO. Not sure what you are doing to improve on perfection but I am chomping at the bit for the release of chapter 3 now to see what you are up to, my friend!

Adventure ever on, Phat

 

[Havik79]

Yeah not going to lie this is all very concerning, I get wanting to make money, but this much level of fuss over marketing makes me think if there was a chance to double income adding ntr that it would then get added.

 

[motseer]

Right now the 3 leading options are:
1. Lilith Rising: Dark Pawn
2. Lilith Rising: Dark Knight
3. Lilith Rising: Pawn's Gambit

Dark Pawn sounds... meh... nobody wants to be a pawn. Dark Knight is Batman, like Phat said. It sounds like a knock-off. Pawn's Gambit is confusing. There are two other titles here on F95 with Gambit in them. Both are excellent stories you don't need to compete with. Again Pawn is weak. Sorry, just being honest.

My suggestion is simple. First, decide exactly what you want the title to say. Then, if you want help from us, ask for suggestions on how to say it. Sometimes a Thesaurus works wonders. I just told you Pawn's Gambit is weak and Dark Knight sounds too much like batman. But, if those are things you want the title to say, work them around... I took Dark (because you suggest using it twice) and found a synonym for Gambit... "Dark Deception"... I did that in about 30 seconds. "Litlth Rising: Dark Deception" Sounds better than anything mentioned up to now. Doesn't mean it's the best. Doesn't even mean it's better. But, it's definitely catchier. Never underestimate the power of onomatopoeia.

The title has to impact ppl quickly and easily. Ppl don't remember nor are impacted by long names. 'Tainted'⟨™⟩ is a way stronger brand than 'Lillith's Rising: Age of the wtv Hot Bitches'⟨™⟩.

Honestly, hitmebaby suggestion, "Lilith Rising: Age of the way Hot Bitches" has a better "ring" to it than any of the 3 "contenders". Heheh, and it's pretty funny too.

I agree that you are getting the cart before the horse a bit. All those titles you keep comparing yourself too have been under development for years. They gained popularity as they developed and are still growing. The comments about "brand" are the best advice I've read so far. You want people to (eventually) associate "Joubei" with good stories. The good title may help sell your story but it won't make it a good product. That's on you, my friend. IMO you are doing great - just a little anxious. Settle on the title, once and for all. Concentrate on putting out the best product you can. Interact with the communities the way you have been and folks like Papa Phat and hitmebaby and I will help spread the word. That's what forums do...

 

[Dragon59]

Dark Pawn sounds... meh... nobody wants to be a pawn. Dark Knight is Batman, like Phat said. It sounds like a knock-off. Pawn's Gambit is confusing. There are two other titles here on F95 with Gambit in them. Both are excellent stories you don't need to compete with. Again Pawn is weak. Sorry, just being honest.

I feel Dark Pawn would be completely valid for a story. Yeah, no one likes to see themselves as a pawn in a game of intrigue, but the connection to chess gives it a certain...caché. Part of a good novel (or Adult Visual Novel) is often the development of the main character. Stories about a fully formed powerful hero are usually quite boring. The Hero's Journey takes the protagonist from innocence and lowly beginnings, then the journey helps the protagonist find their purpose, their "sacred quest," that brings them ever closer to their goal, their fulfillment, their ultimate potential.