Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.10.7 Hotfix] [Innoxia]

[NoStepOnSnek]

The reason I mentioned a BDSM relationship when player slavery was mentioned is because there is no way to create a non game ending form of actual slavery. The reason for this is the Servitude enchantment, which prevents removal of seals. This completely stops the players ability to escape enslavement. And the kicker? This enchantment is present on every slave collar.

Edit: This enchantment is also the sole reason players can enslave demons as without it they would simply use essence to remove their slave collars and leave. (I am aware this cannot actually happen in game, but this is mostly because Inno didn't bother actually coding consequences for low obedience/affection)

You don't have to remove your collar, you just need to reach somebody who can. The enchants on a normal collar are annoying but hardly debilitating to a somewhat levelled player and the precise nature of any tracking or surveillance capabilities can be fudged by the dev to open just enough of a hole.

Not that it matters though. Player slavery as an over-arching system/a kind of 'game mode' is officially cancelled so Amber/Natalya style play sessions and a handful of bad ends (mostly with the other Elders) will have to suffice for that crowd.

 

[Scapdra1]

You don't have to remove your collar, you just need to reach somebody who can. The enchants on a normal collar are annoying but hardly debilitating to a somewhat levelled player and the precise nature of any tracking or surveillance capabilities can be fudged by the dev to open just enough of a hole.

Not that it matters though. Player slavery as an over-arching system/a kind of 'game mode' is officially cancelled so Amber/Natalya style play sessions and a handful of bad ends (mostly with the other Elders) will have to suffice for that crowd.

But then you run into the issues that Alex brought up. The person who enslaved you would have to be a bimbo or another similarly stupid character archetype because even someone with average intelligence wouldn't be stupid enough to let such a valuable slave wander (IE Arthur wasn't allowed any sort of freedom until the player intervened).

 

[organord]

It's pretty interesting that even Murk's collar doesn't use the Enslavement enchant despite the scenario being literal slavery.

Like Natalya/Amber's collars, it is just a Sealing+Servitude collar so you retain free will, and it is your choice to resist or submit (though unlike Natalya/Amber you are physically restrained so you still need to escape under the rules set by that scenario, whereas with Natalya or Amber you can go about your adventures normally for the most part).
There is a Murk-specific obedience meter, and after it is half-full the resist options start getting grayed out as your mental conditioning progresses.
You have a few ways to escape if you don't want to get the bad end, though.

You can escape from being Vengar's captive too, though unlike the Murk path, I haven't played that one in-game and just saw it in the XMLs.

The main problem I see with slavery is that you can only be bound to one master, so whichever slavery "route" you commit to, it's still a dead end in terms of viewable content, unless you escape. It's not as if there can be infinite content written for each and every slavery route, so you will eventually tire of it.
This leads to the current weird situation, where characters who should technically be enslaving you are not actually using Enslavement collars, so you actually retain free will and can choose to resist/escape.

If you're truly Enslaved through the enchantment and cannot resist your owner, then the Bad End is just based on a binary toggle in the settings, rather than a series of gameplay decisions. There will have to be some handwaved reason for why you can escape that Enslavement, like your stronger aura somehow letting you ignore the mind-controlling portion of the enchant. Or perhaps your rescue is left in the hands of a specific unique NPC who will come and save you when Bad Ends are toggled off.
I feel that both are pretty weak solutions compared to the current Murk scenario, where it's more game-like and your choices matter.
But when you're "canonically" mind-controlled by the Enslavement, you don't really have many choices to escape that state, so some amount of ass-pull seems necessary.

Edit:
If true enslavement scenarios are intended to be solely for kink content and you shouldn't escape because you are only on that slave path if you (the player behind the screen) commits to it willingly, then that's just a developmental dead end since that content cannot canonically exist alongside a successful clear of the main quest.
This kind of dead-end-branched content should be done only after the main quest is much further along (or completed), compared to side quests that add flavor while also coexisting with the main quest instead of blocking it which can be added at any time (as long as it doesn't delay the main quest too much).

 

[organord]

Is there any infa about increasing the limit on the number of Enchantment capacity? would like to upgrade above the limit, but perks do not allow
I looked in the save file, I did not find a line about this, I looked badly

You can disable that in the in-game menu.

Main Menu (Esc / cogwheel button at the bottom left) ->
Content Options ->
Gameplay ->
Enchantment Capacity ->
Off

 

[Scapdra1]

It's pretty interesting that even Murk's collar doesn't use the Enslavement enchant despite the scenario being literal slavery.

Like Natalya/Amber's collars, it is just a Sealing+Servitude collar so you retain free will, and it is your choice to resist or submit (though unlike Natalya/Amber you are physically restrained so you still need to escape under the rules set by that scenario, whereas with Natalya or Amber you can go about your adventures normally for the most part).
There is a Murk-specific obedience meter, and after it is half-full the resist options start getting grayed out as your mental conditioning progresses.
You have a few ways to escape if you don't want to get the bad end, though.

You can escape from being Vengar's captive too, though unlike the Murk path, I haven't played that one in-game and just saw it in the XMLs.

The main problem I see with slavery is that you can only be bound to one master, so whichever slavery "route" you commit to, it's still a dead end in terms of viewable content, unless you escape. It's not as if there can be infinite content written for each and every slavery route, so you will eventually tire of it.
This leads to the current weird situation, where characters who should technically be enslaving you are not actually using Enslavement collars, so you actually retain free will and can choose to resist/escape.

If you're truly Enslaved through the enchantment and cannot resist your owner, then the Bad End is just based on a binary toggle in the settings, rather than a series of gameplay decisions. There will have to be some handwaved reason for why you can escape that Enslavement, like your stronger aura somehow letting you ignore the mind-controlling portion of the enchant. Or perhaps your rescue is left in the hands of a specific unique NPC who will come and save you when Bad Ends are toggled off.
I feel that both are pretty weak solutions compared to the current Murk scenario, where it's more game-like and your choices matter.

Probably for the same reason that we are arguing about right now. the enslavement enchantment is literally an end to the wearer's free will. It can only be used as a complete failure state, not a temporary punishment.

 

[SordidDreams]

The lockout isn't just for one version, it persists permanently, so it will still be locked out when the main quest does eventually get finished. The ONLY difference is that the player still has to wait for the main quest to be fully developed in this version.

Wait, you're expecting to still be playing the same save file fifty years from now when version 1.0 comes out? That's, uh... let's say optimistic. Yeah, that's a good word for it.

 

[Scapdra1]

Wait, you're expecting to still be playing the same save file fifty years from now when version 1.0 comes out? That's, uh... let's say optimistic. Yeah, that's a good word for it.

the fact that you think that 1.0 will come out at all makes this post rather ironic. the only way this game will reach 1.0 with how development has pretty much ceased is if Inno stops work completely and slaps the label on and claims it's 'finished'. (Or hires someone to help, which has pretty much no chance of happening)

 

[organord]

Probably for the same reason that we are arguing about right now. the enslavement enchantment is literally an end to the wearer's free will. It can only be used as a complete failure state, not a temporary punishment.

Yes, I addressed that in the later part of what you quoted.

Once the Enslavement enchantment comes into play, the mind control aspect limits reasonable escape options too much, and also makes the entire scenario unappealing to anyone who isn't a hardcore slavery fetishist (which greatly reduces how many people can enjoy that chunk of development time).

At least with the current "non-magically-enforced" slavery we have now, you can make your own choice whether to resist or submit, and can escape the scenario believably instead of relying on an ass-pull scripted rescue or the MC having convenient Enslavement resistance.

I feel that the Murk scenario was implemented quite well, overall.
The whole thing would have been much weaker with the magical inability to resist from the very start, since it would just be a long wall of text with no meaningful branches or choices beyond the Bad End toggle (resulting in being automatically rescued, or getting a slavery-for-life ending, with no input on your behalf).
It wouldn't change the quality of the writing, since it would be almost identical to choosing the most submissive option each time in the current implementation. It would just result in a jarring visual-novel experience rather than a game experience that you can shape based on how you want to play your character.

 

[Scapdra1]

Hopefully since Zethin is kicking us off with a content mod, we will eventually have a combat overhaul. the physical side of combat most specifically. at the current state of the game it is literally just stacking numbers in order to blow through enemies one at a time as fast as possible. arcane with max spell upgrades at least has multi-targeting options (fireball), single target dps (ice shard), and CC (flash). Ranged is extremely underwhelming (unless using enforcer weapons spamming rapid fire/mag dump). melee weapons are only slightly better (zweihander pretty much carries the build). but unarmed is flat out BUSTED with a 2x damage multiplier that is applied alongside the other damage buffs. This disparity is even more noticeable if you turn off enchantment limits; one basic punch can beat out a crit from the zweihander with the right setup. I would like to see unarmed toned down a little, ranged and melee get a small buff so they don't feel so underwhelming and get some multiple target physical skills (and CC that isn't race locked)

 

[alex2011]

But then you run into the issues that Alex brought up. The person who enslaved you would have to be a bimbo or another similarly stupid character archetype because even someone with average intelligence wouldn't be stupid enough to let such a valuable slave wander (IE Arthur wasn't allowed any sort of freedom until the player intervened).

Exactly, you know, I didn't even think of Arthur, but that is a perfect example of why there just isn't a good way to do actual player slavery since no way exists that doesn't get in the way of the main quest.

It's pretty interesting that even Murk's collar doesn't use the Enslavement enchant despite the scenario being literal slavery.

Like Natalya/Amber's collars, it is just a Sealing+Servitude collar so you retain free will, and it is your choice to resist or submit (though unlike Natalya/Amber you are physically restrained so you still need to escape under the rules set by that scenario, whereas with Natalya or Amber you can go about your adventures normally for the most part).
There is a Murk-specific obedience meter, and after it is half-full the resist options start getting grayed out as your mental conditioning progresses.
You have a few ways to escape if you don't want to get the bad end, though.

You can escape from being Vengar's captive too, though unlike the Murk path, I haven't played that one in-game and just saw it in the XMLs.

The main problem I see with slavery is that you can only be bound to one master, so whichever slavery "route" you commit to, it's still a dead end in terms of viewable content, unless you escape. It's not as if there can be infinite content written for each and every slavery route, so you will eventually tire of it.
This leads to the current weird situation, where characters who should technically be enslaving you are not actually using Enslavement collars, so you actually retain free will and can choose to resist/escape.

If you're truly Enslaved through the enchantment and cannot resist your owner, then the Bad End is just based on a binary toggle in the settings, rather than a series of gameplay decisions. There will have to be some handwaved reason for why you can escape that Enslavement, like your stronger aura somehow letting you ignore the mind-controlling portion of the enchant. Or perhaps your rescue is left in the hands of a specific unique NPC who will come and save you when Bad Ends are toggled off.
I feel that both are pretty weak solutions compared to the current Murk scenario, where it's more game-like and your choices matter.
But when you're "canonically" mind-controlled by the Enslavement, you don't really have many choices to escape that state, so some amount of ass-pull seems necessary.

Edit:
If true enslavement scenarios are intended to be solely for kink content and you shouldn't escape because you are only on that slave path if you (the player behind the screen) commits to it willingly, then that's just a developmental dead end since that content cannot canonically exist alongside a successful clear of the main quest.
This kind of dead-end-branched content should be done only after the main quest is much further along (or completed), compared to side quests that add flavor while also coexisting with the main quest instead of blocking it which can be added at any time (as long as it doesn't delay the main quest too much).

Probably for the same reason that we are arguing about right now. the enslavement enchantment is literally an end to the wearer's free will. It can only be used as a complete failure state, not a temporary punishment.

Exactly, slave collars normally use servitude, but these do not. Given that the Rat Warrens scenario is locked behind game overs specifically, that's probably an issue from a technical standpoint. They don't have the same sealing ability because that ability would actually completely and instantly doom any effort to escape by design. In other words, Inno didn't use a normal slave collar precisely because they can't be escaped from, only released by the master of the slave wearing it. The player base would have screamed bloody murder at Inno for that one, again, if the Rat Warrens had used standard collars.

Wait, you're expecting to still be playing the same save file fifty years from now when version 1.0 comes out? That's, uh... let's say optimistic. Yeah, that's a good word for it.

In an open world game with a level of content that is only limited by how interested contributors and Inno are in making it, therefore making the amount potentially limitless, yeah. There is no true end of development in this project listed, content is supposed to be added continuously until either no more contributors remain or the human race goes extinct. The last step in the plan for development is literally an endless side content addition phase.

I don't expect to be playing a file from this early in development for that long given how likely the alpha stage is to break save compatibility in one or more ways, but I do expect to be keeping a long term save over multiple real world years once the game is more stable in that regard.

the fact that you think that 1.0 will come out at all makes this post rather ironic. the only way this game will reach 1.0 with how development has pretty much ceased is if Inno stops work completely and slaps the label on and claims it's 'finished'. (Or hires someone to help, which has pretty much no chance of happening)

Actually, there is another way. Inno abandons the project and people actually willing to do the work take over, which is entirely possible given that several of us know, at least in general, how to code or write. I'd be one of the people willing to pick it back up and put a team together from this player base to get it done, not necessarily in that order.

Hopefully since Zethin is kicking us off with a content mod, we will eventually have a combat overhaul. the physical side of combat most specifically. at the current state of the game it is literally just stacking numbers in order to blow through enemies one at a time as fast as possible. arcane with max spell upgrades at least has multi-targeting options (fireball), single target dps (ice shard), and CC (flash). Ranged is extremely underwhelming (unless using enforcer weapons spamming rapid fire/mag dump). melee weapons are only slightly better (zweihander pretty much carries the build). but unarmed is flat out BUSTED with a 2x damage multiplier that is applied alongside the other damage buffs. This disparity is even more noticeable if you turn off enchantment limits; one basic punch can beat out a crit from the zweihander with the right setup. I would like to see unarmed toned down a little, ranged and melee get a small buff so they don't feel so underwhelming and get some multiple target physical skills (and CC that isn't race locked)

Indeed, the combat does need a rebalance, especially the OP weapons like the guns and enforcer gear. I understand the PPK because it is a cheat weapon and is designed around using the names that give it at the start, but the rest have no real excuse.

 

[Scapdra1]

Indeed, the combat does need a rebalance, especially the OP weapons like the guns and enforcer gear. I understand the PPK because it is a cheat weapon and is designed around using the names that give it at the start, but the rest have no real excuse.

the enforcer gear is literally the only saving grace for ranged builds. mag dump and rapid fire are the only method that allow ranged characters to match melee weapons, let alone unarmed ones. if any thing, the bows need a unique skill (IE a multishot that hits multiple targets) as well as a damage buff. the 'nerf' I would mag dump and rapid fire would be (once ranged damage is buffed) is to triple essence cost at minimum and limit it to one use per turn. 7x normal cost for that damage is way too low, and the fact you can use it three times in a row before the cooldown kicks in makes it really broken. as for other changes why not add a heavy crossbow and a longbow for flavor in ranged weapons + maces and axes for melee. Having the youko sell a yumi would add a reason to enter the village besides the main story, plus adding weapon variety could open up more variety for physical skills.

 

[NoStepOnSnek]

Probably for the same reason that we are arguing about right now. the enslavement enchantment is literally an end to the wearer's free will. It can only be used as a complete failure state, not a temporary punishment.

The rats obviously can't use standard collars because the slavery enchant always checks criminal records and sends you on that detour through the administration centre. The only person who has so far demonstrated the ability to circumvent this is an Elder.
Also, nowhere that I'm aware of are either of the relevant enchantments described with such a level of mind control ability.

 

[Scapdra1]

The rats obviously can't use standard collars because the slavery enchant always checks criminal records and sends you on that detour through the administration centre. The only person who has so far demonstrated the ability to circumvent this is an Elder.
Also, nowhere that I'm aware of are either of the relevant enchantments described with such a level of mind control ability.

free guests can refuse to have sex with people they aren't interested in, but you can force slaves to do so without changing their orientation. its not a stretch to assume they are incapable of disobeying.

 

[NoStepOnSnek]

free guests can refuse to have sex with people they aren't interested in, but you can force slaves to do so without changing their orientation. its not a stretch to assume they are incapable of disobeying.

I'd say it's at least debatable how much of that is on the enchant, how much is the inherent coercive power of literally being the property of a vastly more powerful entity than yourself and finally how much is Inno not having done much with the obedience mechanic beyound profit scaling and some snarky responses.

 

[Scapdra1]

I'd say it's at least debatable how much of that is on the enchant, how much is the inherent coercive power of literally being the property of a vastly more powerful entity than yourself and finally how much is Inno not having done much with the obedience mechanic beyound profit scaling and some snarky responses.

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that the game ending scenarios specifically avoid using the enslavement enchant is pretty hefty evidence that it does in fact force obedience. because as the PC can use the enslavement enchantment on any item at any point allowing enslavement without requiring criminal Identification, there is a definite possibility they can as well. As for routing through the Administration, I'm pretty sure the only reason we route our slaves through it is to avoid getting tagged as a criminal to be hunted down and enslaved by the Enforcers(and by extension, Lilith).

 

[NoStepOnSnek]

It's amazing that the game passed me by unnoticed. In terms of execution, just fine for a text game. Full control over sexual intercourse, where you can choose separately positions for each participant and perform possible actions in this position to choose from.
It is possible to compare normally mainly with games from Fenoxo like the same CoC or TitS (which has been in development for a million years). And here absolutely everything, in my opinion, is implemented better than in these games. Starting from interaction with the interface, objects, clothing, weapons, characters, and ending with trifles like the ability to use the metric system right out of the box instead of the vile imperial system, which in the case of the same CoC was only solved by mods, and even then not completely.
The appearance of various ambiguous fetishes in the game can be configured through the options, which is also much more flexible than in the aforementioned games, be it incest, rape or urination (initially disabled). The same can be said about the presence of furries.
A big plus is also a much smaller bias in graphomania, where a ton of text pours out to you, which you have no desire to read after a while. If in the games from Fenoxo the content itself was described in this way, sometimes giving some variation, here there are scenes completely controlled by the player (not counting the cases when your hero is forced to do something, of course). Each character wears something, including the player, and in the process of intercourse, either he takes off what is needed, or you do it. So, if you like your character's outfit, you don't have to strip them completely or strip them altogether. It is enough, for example, to lift up the skirt, move the underwear, without removing it, so that it does not interfere, and forward. I just want to unbutton my shirt so that the bra is visible - please. I want to undress completely - no one bothers. It is here that the variability of the game is at a height, and given that already now a fairly large number of clothes have been implemented, the color of which can vary, and which can be changed by yourself with the help of special items, the love for some specific accessories will be satisfied.

If dressing up is an important aspect to you, feel free to drop by the modding section on the discord, we've got even more pretty clothes there.

 

[NoStepOnSnek]

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that the game ending scenarios specifically avoid using the enslavement enchant is pretty hefty evidence that it does in fact force obedience.

Again, there are very good lore reasons for the parties in question to avoid the official enchant and your own slaves are outright telling you they're not doing the work you assigned them when you ask, so if there is control, it's rather tenuous.

 

[Scapdra1]

Again, there are very good lore reasons for the parties in question to avoid the official enchant and your own slaves are outright telling you they're not doing the work you assigned them when you ask, so if there is control, it's rather tenuous.

In the end it boils down to the fact that slavery, and by extension the bad ends associated with it, are victims of Inno's habit of starting a system/story then abandoning it for something else when she gets bored of it/fed up with it.

 

[Lady_Yvraine]

After quickloading a bunch of time to trigger a patrol to spawn on a certain tile for roleplay reasons, an idea came to mind:
how difficult would it be to implement an item that would force/greatly increase the chances of an Enforcers patrol to spawn?
I do not know the first thing about coding, so I have only the faintest grasp on the challenge that it would pose, but looking back a few good pages, someone did make a pregnancy-deleting pill (I believe) rather quickly.
This item (a walkie-talkie? signal flare?) could be acquired at the armory at the end of the Enforcers storyline.

 

[Zethin]

So bad news. My SSD died in the process of upgrading my computer and took with it pretty much everything. So progress was rolled back a bit.

The good news is I can talk more about what I was/am working on. I'm currently revamping the enchantment and (probably) equipment system to utilize rarities. Right now they're just arbitrarily placed with no meaning.

I haven't quite decided on how I would like this part implemented, but when creating a potion, you will have an X% chance to obtain the next level in rarity. This percent can be boosted up to a maximum threshold for each rarity. Rarities will actually have impact on items, and provide an additional statistical bonus for the item.

E.g., when crafting a potion of seduction, the rarity will start as common with a chance of upgrading to rare when you craft it. Once it's crafted, if you failed to increase the rarity, you can choose to spend more essences to reroll for an increase of up to, let's say 90% to achieve a rare potion of seduction. And you can repeat that process with lower chances of success up to legendary.

So what's all this for? Before my SSD died, I was in the middle of developing an alchemy workshop. The workshop generates an amount of quests each day. I'm probably going to add a new type of quest section called "job quests", but these will be another source of income outside of slavery. These quests will ask for varying levels of potions and/or items depending on the difficulty. As you complete more quests, the workshop's level will improve, and you'll be able to receive more difficult requests for more flames.

Anyway, that's all I had for now. Let me know what you think / ideas you have.