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tehlemon

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2021
1,224
1,563
Wait, are you implying that hitting a JavaScript interpreter hundreds of times every time the player moves in order to fetch a bunch of text that won't be displayed is unoptimized? :unsure:
Shit, is it really? I was honestly only thinking about WHAT was updated every action, not how it was being updated.

That's so much worse lmao
 

X3h0n

Newbie
Jun 18, 2020
24
17
Wait, are you implying that hitting a JavaScript interpreter hundreds of times every time the player moves in order to fetch a bunch of text that won't be displayed is unoptimized? :unsure:
Has anyone tried fixing that? We have the source code, so we could just make a version that doesn't do that. I've been making some changes to it to make a version of the game for myself(mostly making changes to the character generation), but I'm not super well versed in Java and would like to avoid having to dredge through the code to do something that has already been done by someone else.
 

tehlemon

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2021
1,224
1,563
Has anyone tried fixing that? We have the source code, so we could just make a version that doesn't do that. I've been making some changes to it to make a version of the game for myself(mostly making changes to the character generation), but I'm not super well versed in Java and would like to avoid having to dredge through the code to do something that has already been done by someone else.
I was going through the code planning out an optimization pass, and I realized like, 1/3rd of the way through that it'd just be faster to make my own game lol

So I'm doing that instead. Mostly just prototyping stuff, but it's a lot more fun.

I really don't want to try and work on or fix a game that's being developed by someone who doesn't want me to. I might laugh at the game's development, but I'm going to respect the developer's wishes for it. Because I get it, I prefer to work on my projects alone too.
 
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Mustang Flex

Member
Oct 24, 2017
457
1,066
Good lord, another update that's not 0.4, and Inno saying that they're taking a break. I stand by my statement of Inno not actually wanting to make the game as they originally planned it. Since apparently anything other than making endless side content for Dominion just can't be done without endless delays and breaks.
 

tehlemon

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2021
1,224
1,563
Pre-rolling everything only sounds like a good idea. If you have proper structure, it's significantly easier and faster to roll encounters when you need them.

The problem is this game doesn't have either.

The more advanced the game gets, it becomes almost impossible to properly pre-roll everything that you might need. And like, you have no way of knowing how many encounters you'll need. At most, you should only really pre-load a single encounter. Like, having your next random encounter loaded will allow you to quickly load it (which, again, you shouldn't need). Then during the encounter you can load the next one in the background.

But really, pre-loading everything is actually a really dangerous idea.

Hello again,


I'm really sorry both for how long this version has taken to be released, as well as the lack of fields content in it. I've been feeling increasingly fatigued and stressed over the past few weeks, and I'm now at the point where my progress on LT has become but a shadow of what it once was. After this release, I'm going to have to take a couple of weeks off to try and rest and recover my energy. I'll let you know in another post when I'm back to working on v0.4.


Sorry again for the disappointment, and I'll really try to make v0.4 a version worth playing.
lmao

I set the bar *really* low with my prediction, and this went even lower. Is there anything new in this update?
 

PussyPassAnon

Member
Dec 18, 2018
186
271
Good lord, another update that's not 0.4, and Inno saying that they're taking a break. I stand by my statement of Inno not actually wanting to make the game as they originally planned it. Since apparently anything other than making endless side content for Dominion just can't be done without endless delays and breaks.
I wish they'd just make the decision to consolidate the overall quest to Dominion and move on.
 

Sarkath

Active Member
Sep 8, 2019
531
908
Shit, is it really? I was honestly only thinking about WHAT was updated every action, not how it was being updated.
YEP.

I started working on a patch set that would allow LT to compile on JDK 11+ and was kind of surprised when simply switching from Nashorn to GraalJS (mostly to ensure that it would compile on JDK 15, since that's the release that removes Nashorn altogether) caused the game to slow down significantly. I did some profiling and…well…

Has anyone tried fixing that? We have the source code, so we could just make a version that doesn't do that.
I've been thinking about it. I think that would do a lot to fix the performance issues, and it would give folks like Zethin a cleaner base to work from.

When I first saw it I noped out quick, but my initial panic has subsided somewhat in the past few days. :p
 
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tehlemon

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2021
1,224
1,563
So after being a week late after the previous week long delay, which was already a week late after the pervious month long delay, which was already like two months late after the previous delay due to the unfinished Nyan rework, which was already around five months late because of a race rework...

The dev is now going to take a few weeks off.

Even if we ignore everything from before the "it'll be done near the end of February" date, which was when she nuked her blog activity, that means we're going to be getting the update a minimum of two months late. Assuming she comes back after a couple weeks off and has an update ready immediately.

I think the game might be unofficially dead with this one lol

Could you imagine being a new user and checking out the blog now? Like, the game looks abandoned.

And this is her full time job. Looking at those patch notes, if you take out the contributor work, does there appear to be anywhere near 40 hours of work in this patch? And this is like, three weeks for this patch.
 

PussyPassAnon

Member
Dec 18, 2018
186
271
It is what it is. At the very least, we have enough tools available that will allow us to transform it. We'd been asking a long time ago for Inno to get the mod work done, so that we could consider the option of taking over development. That's been done for the most part. It's now a matter of whether or not Inno wants to finish the story, because they've put so much effort into the unrelated bloat that could have been used on the actual game. We can handle the rest.
 

A.H.

Newbie
Jul 8, 2017
70
168
So after being a week late after the previous week long delay, which was already a week late after the pervious month long delay, which was already like two months late after the previous delay due to the unfinished Nyan rework, which was already around five months late because of a race rework...

The dev is now going to take a few weeks off.

Even if we ignore everything from before the "it'll be done near the end of February" date, which was when she nuked her blog activity, that means we're going to be getting the update a minimum of two months late. Assuming she comes back after a couple weeks off and has an update ready immediately.

I think the game might be unofficially dead with this one lol

Could you imagine being a new user and checking out the blog now? Like, the game looks abandoned.

And this is her full time job. Looking at those patch notes, if you take out the contributor work, does there appear to be anywhere near 40 hours of work in this patch? And this is like, three weeks for this patch.
yea fr, this game has been dead for a long time, she's just taking the money and giving nothing in return, just like you said the patch notes are all from contributors, excuses after excuses, she's either being lazy or she just doesn't care about the game anymore.
 

alex2011

Conversation Conqueror
Feb 28, 2017
7,716
4,461
It's Sunday. One week past when we were supposed to get an update.

Think we'll hear anything from Inno today? I know her entire life structure and schedule is kind of fucked, so we won't hear anything from her until the middle of the night, but do you think we'll hear anything at all? lol
Unlikely, we aren't several months after Inno's last post. The pattern says Inno will go silent for several months and then come back with having nothing related to what they were working on in the last post done and working on some other thing being worked on just like what happened with the Nyan rework.

Oh, and she'll have done a bunch of work on Nyan's content even though she said she wouldn't.
Probably, just like in January, when this pattern, which I refer to as the lie pattern in reference to Inno having said something they are doing being done, first showed up.

I've actually identified one of the probable causes this slowdown happens and am working on a fix. Right now in the base game every single time you move, the game loops through every slave in existence and runs a check to see if they want to use you.

I.e., every time you move one tile in Dominion, the game loops through every single slave every single time performing these checks no matter what. And it happens pretty much everywhere.

The workaround I currently have implemented is the game takes a random slave from the pool and looks at whether it meets all the checks. If not, it dumps the slave from the pool and tries another at random. When it finds a slave, it immediately breaks from the loop.

Obviously this is not ideal, because if all (e.g.) 300 slaves don't meet the checks, it's still running through all slaves per tile. But I haven't found an efficient way of handling this yet. I'm probably going to have to rewrite how tile encounters are handled to solve this.
Thank you for your work, Zethin. Even if it isn't ideal, I'm sure it will work out just fine.

Wait, are you implying that hitting a JavaScript interpreter hundreds of times every time the player moves in order to fetch a bunch of text that won't be displayed is unoptimized? :unsure:
Shit, is it really? I was honestly only thinking about WHAT was updated every action, not how it was being updated.

That's so much worse lmao
I know, it's not like there are ways to do this WITHOUT that mess...oh wait. The number of times a program hits something and then goes back through the process definitely has an impact with that impact proportional to the number of repeats, this is literally begging for a lag spike with how many times this particular program does this. This isn't even just Java, literally any language will have this issue. I used to have it happen in my early programs because of the way I implemented them, then I found more compact ways to do the same thing.

Good lord, another update that's not 0.4, and Inno saying that they're taking a break. I stand by my statement of Inno not actually wanting to make the game as they originally planned it. Since apparently anything other than making endless side content for Dominion just can't be done without endless delays and breaks.
I know, I think it is time to begin planning for anyone who wants to take over so the inevitable abandonment transitions as flawlessly as possible from Inno to whoever picks it up. It is going to be a little bumpy because of how bad the code likely is, but it shouldn't be impossible.

Pre-rolling everything only sounds like a good idea. If you have proper structure, it's significantly easier and faster to roll encounters when you need them.

The problem is this game doesn't have either.

The more advanced the game gets, it becomes almost impossible to properly pre-roll everything that you might need. And like, you have no way of knowing how many encounters you'll need. At most, you should only really pre-load a single encounter. Like, having your next random encounter loaded will allow you to quickly load it (which, again, you shouldn't need). Then during the encounter you can load the next one in the background.

But really, pre-loading everything is actually a really dangerous idea.



lmao

I set the bar *really* low with my prediction, and this went even lower. Is there anything new in this update?
Holy crap, I was expecting radio silence like in January, I do have to admit I am at least pleasantly surprised enough to give Inno that much. It seems the cycle of lies is broken...for now. Whether it will come again sooner or later remains to be seen. More likely sooner, as in next post, but it could be later. However, I am still fully expecting the same thing as what happened between September and January.

So after being a week late after the previous week long delay, which was already a week late after the pervious month long delay, which was already like two months late after the previous delay due to the unfinished Nyan rework, which was already around five months late because of a race rework...

The dev is now going to take a few weeks off.

Even if we ignore everything from before the "it'll be done near the end of February" date, which was when she nuked her blog activity, that means we're going to be getting the update a minimum of two months late. Assuming she comes back after a couple weeks off and has an update ready immediately.

I think the game might be unofficially dead with this one lol

Could you imagine being a new user and checking out the blog now? Like, the game looks abandoned.

And this is her full time job. Looking at those patch notes, if you take out the contributor work, does there appear to be anywhere near 40 hours of work in this patch? And this is like, three weeks for this patch.
There certainly isn't 40 hours of work FROM INNO in this update. That's the real kicker about all of this. Even what little Inno actually does isn't enough to be considered a full time job load. At minimum to be considered full time work, it has to have 40 hours worth specifically coming from Inno, not the GitHub contributors, from Inno. The GitHub has never counted toward the number of hours being put in because the GitHub is considered modding at best, not actual work on the game.

I agree that the game could be considered unofficially dead, which is why I suggest anyone who would pick it up to start planning now.

I've already started learning the code and I am practicing emulating Inno's writing style to prepare myself to assist in any revival effort or to start one myself. No, not the nonsensical and weak writing we see in the Nyan rework, or what I have seen in screenshots anyway, but the style behind it. What I write won't be nonsensical like that, it will make sense, but it will be in as close to the same style as possible.
 

Omegablade21

Member
Jun 16, 2020
149
244
So how are we supposed to make money in the game the right way? I mean I could save scum the Casino and get into fights and steal people's clothes and sell them but both really seem like exploits and not the intended money making way.
 

IvoryOwl

Active Member
Mar 29, 2017
761
1,410
So, Inno has finally decided to take "a couple of weeks off" to rest and recover. Given the fact we usually get a release a month, that means we're looking at a month and half, at best, without new content. Two months, if you want to be more conservative. I can already imagine some people rolling their eyes at my post "Inno is not doing well, yet all you care about is more content, more releases!". Which I guess is kind of fair.

I wonder if this is beginning of the end for this game... at least she didn't just disappear without saying a word this time around. I'll give her that, at the very least. On the flip side, hey, a few Field-oriented morphs are in the game now. I could think of a few roleplay scenarios with a piggy-morph. If you want to be optimistic, maybe it's a sign that Inno actually intends to release the Fields sometime this year.
 
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e-disfunction

Active Member
Jun 1, 2019
731
724
So how are we supposed to make money in the game the right way? I mean I could save scum the Casino and get into fights and steal people's clothes and sell them but both really seem like exploits and not the intended money making way.
A bit old but still reasonably useful ... This post and the few post just before it:
https://f95zone.to/threads/liliths-throne-v0-3-19-hotfix-innoxia.3564/post-3265623
e-d :)

P.S.: Remember to use the "Like" buttons on posts that you find worthwhile. (y)
 

Zethin

Succubus Rhapsodia
Donor
May 14, 2017
156
498
Pre-rolling everything only sounds like a good idea. If you have proper structure, it's significantly easier and faster to roll encounters when you need them.

The problem is this game doesn't have either.

The more advanced the game gets, it becomes almost impossible to properly pre-roll everything that you might need. And like, you have no way of knowing how many encounters you'll need. At most, you should only really pre-load a single encounter. Like, having your next random encounter loaded will allow you to quickly load it (which, again, you shouldn't need). Then during the encounter you can load the next one in the background.

But really, pre-loading everything is actually a really dangerous idea.
My current implementation rolls on permission settings. Right now, every call to those methods hinges on two things: permission checks and location checks. By relocating those two checks into the permissions method and only looping through slaves who meet said permissions, it would drastically (and properly) reduce the number of slaves to only the number that have the potential to pass those checks. The only reason all of them can't be placed in permissions is some of those checks rely on time passed which is on a per-tile basis. It's not perfect, but it should cover every applicable slave without covering every slave.

You technically know how many encounters you need at a minimum because the map is static, but the problem lies in repeatable encounters and rare encounters (e.g. Enforcer encounters), and encounters that you can remove (e.g. alleyway attackers) which would be replaced with something else.

I don't really have the time to invest into solo reworking an entire game engine though. I've got a fulltime job as well lol
 
Jul 29, 2019
115
35
Please tell me Inno isn't actually still collecting money from patreon and subscribestar for this? She/he/whatever has promised 0.4.0 for like half a year, and has constantly cut down on promised content, while collecting thousands of dollars. It's kind of ridiculous, it's not quite as bad as what the New Life dev does, but still pretty shitty. I'm kinda pissed and i'm not even a subscriber of Inno, I feel bad for the people who actually pay for this.
 
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