Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.10.7 Hotfix] [Innoxia]

[Carl0sDanger]

A few years I think, I don't think it's even on his list of priorities

There's been a couple of minor alterations.

Given that the entire combat/magic system really needs to be rebuilt from the ground up (scrapping the whole elemental theme would be a good idea IMHO), it's not really an efficient use of dev time to tweak it.

I don't have any problem with the Physical/Lust/Magic division of combat abilities but the Last Airbender elemental stuff feels really out of place. What the goal should be is a system where a player can make a viable fighter, "lust fighter" or magician. That is, a system with at least three viable builds, each promoting a different playstyle.

Currently, the best build is to focus on Physical combat, get an Elemental Companion also focused on Physical, and just spam the basic attack every round. The only reason to do something different is RP, no other build comes close.

Knowing Inno, however, she'll probably just try to "fix" the current system by nerfing Physical combat.

 

[CaptainBipto]

Oh! That's actually some neat progress. Just tested and having some problems with getting the fetish though, seems like there are bugs with the RNG because I have "Bondage Applier" set to maximum but it's only giving me like 1 in 50ish random character generations with it. The others seem to work fine though which is weird.

I believe that the maximum setting just means that they will only Like or Love the fetish, not that it will appear more often.

Beat the hell outta the NPC in question, enchant a fetish potion with the Bondage Applier (and any othe fetishes you want them to have), force them to drink it, and then come back the next day. Their inventory will update over night to add things like cuffs, blindfolds, and various other goodies. The silly part is that they won't equip a piece of gear if you are wearing something in that slot already. So, things like glasses will block blindfolds and corsets will block the karada gear.

 

[Skooky]

Oh! That's actually some neat progress. Just tested and having some problems with getting the fetish though, seems like there are bugs with the RNG because I have "Bondage Applier" set to maximum but it's only giving me like 1 in 50ish random character generations with it. The others seem to work fine though which is weird.

They need to do clothing for characters that have performed transformations. If someone changed your gender then they should give you something to match it. And they should add some unique fetishes that only exist in the Lilith world too that can't exist in real life, for example we have cursed fucking clothing in this world, people would have a fetish for forcing cursed or blessed clothing onto other people, this fetish should exist in the game. Such clothing applications can then start forcing characters into varied and interesting predicaments outside their control using the extremely extensive amount of enchantments the game has. This adds a mechanic that has existed in roguelikes forever, it adds significantly more value to identifying items, etc etc. And it can make re-running the game significantly more interesting by adding variety to what is currently a far too predictable and mundane gameplay loop.

Honestly probably the most interesting piece of progress I've seen on the game in the last year of checking in on it. The only one that has real gameplay changing implications anyway.

You can cheat it by enchanting a potion with it and defeating the attacker once. Just don't remove their stuff from their inventory.

 

[BobCarter]

There's been a couple of minor alterations.

Given that the entire combat/magic system really needs to be rebuilt from the ground up (scrapping the whole elemental theme would be a good idea IMHO), it's not really an efficient use of dev time to tweak it.

I don't have any problem with the Physical/Lust/Magic division of combat abilities but the Last Airbender elemental stuff feels really out of place. What the goal should be is a system where a player can make a viable fighter, "lust fighter" or magician. That is, a system with at least three viable builds, each promoting a different playstyle.

Currently, the best build is to focus on Physical combat, get an Elemental Companion also focused on Physical, and just spam the basic attack every round. The only reason to do something different is RP, no other build comes close.

Knowing Inno, however, she'll probably just try to "fix" the current system by nerfing Physical combat.

No not at all, the fact you need to be able to summon and heal yourself with spells and need mana regen (or tediously use a shit ton of potions), kinda prove that Magic is the most powerful, even more so when it is the only way to solo everything with ease.

 

[Draupnir7]

No not at all, the fact you need to be able to summon and heal yourself with spells and need mana regen (or tediously use a shit ton of potions), kinda prove that Magic is the most powerful, even more so when it is the only way to solo everything with ease.

It's just as tedious to heal with magic, if not moreso, because you can make potions that heal for 100% without needing to boost magic stats.

 

[CaptainBipto]

No not at all, the fact you need to be able to summon and heal yourself with spells and need mana regen (or tediously use a shit ton of potions), kinda prove that Magic is the most powerful, even more so when it is the only way to solo everything with ease.

I'm not seeing the need for magic, when I can do this with a basic pair of knuckle dusters and enchantment limits ENABLED (using 25 points). Meraxis and Lunexis took 1 round of combat to beat, with no magic required. The only fights I have had that lasted more than 1 round of combat were the imp gangs and succutars in the amazon city, and those took 2 rounds.

The single healing spell in the game is a joke, it heals you for 40% of your health and consumes all 3 action points for your character. Also, if you are using 'shit tons' of potions to heal, you are doing it wrong. Enchant an Imp Brew 2x with major enhancement and you heal for 100% health and Mana AND you still have 2 actions left after that.

Magic is still very useful and can skew melee combat even more, but it isn't NEEDED to be able to beat the game.

 

[TheeSonus]

I'm not seeing the need for magic, when I can do this with a basic pair of knuckle dusters and enchantment limits ENABLED (using 25 points). Meraxis and Lunexis took 1 round of combat to beat, with no magic required. The only fights I have had that lasted more than 1 round of combat were the imp gangs and succutars in the amazon city, and those took 2 rounds.
View attachment 2229449
The single healing spell in the game is a joke, it heals you for 40% of your health and consumes all 3 action points for your character. Also, if you are using 'shit tons' of potions to heal, you are doing it wrong. Enchant an Imp Brew 2x with major enhancement and you heal for 100% health and Mana AND you still have 2 actions left after that.

Magic is still very useful and can skew melee combat even more, but it isn't NEEDED to be able to beat the game.

>be me
>enchant two katanas to have +100% melee damage, +100% physical damage
>enchant gear to have permanent 100 physique
>still somehow do less damage than fucking knuckle dusters

 

[tehlemon]

I'm not seeing the need for magic, when I can do this with a basic pair of knuckle dusters and enchantment limits ENABLED (using 25 points). Meraxis and Lunexis took 1 round of combat to beat, with no magic required. The only fights I have had that lasted more than 1 round of combat were the imp gangs and succutars in the amazon city, and those took 2 rounds.
View attachment 2229449
The single healing spell in the game is a joke, it heals you for 40% of your health and consumes all 3 action points for your character. Also, if you are using 'shit tons' of potions to heal, you are doing it wrong. Enchant an Imp Brew 2x with major enhancement and you heal for 100% health and Mana AND you still have 2 actions left after that.

Magic is still very useful and can skew melee combat even more, but it isn't NEEDED to be able to beat the game.

If you're looking at the game from a purely balance perspective, magic is completely useless outside of elementals. And even then, they're not really all that useful beyond the passive buff.

The games complete lack of progression is a major problem, and the biggest contributor to this. You basically go from tutorial monsters to end game monsters in a single, very underwhelming step. And the player progression is equally underwhelming, you go from basically no damage to alpha striking three mobs a round.

So back to magic, why's it bad? Because it can't kill everything in a single round, and the other strategies do. Why would you ever use a spell that couldn't just instantly end the fight unless you were intentionally trying to make the game harder? It's never needed.

This game is fucked. At one point I assumed stuff like this was placeholder garbage that would get phased out, but then like 6 years went by without it being touched.

At least combat is fast, I guess. Don't have to spend much time on the weakest part of the game.

 

[CaptainBipto]

>be me
>enchant two katanas to have +100% melee damage, +100% physical damage
>enchant gear to have permanent 100 physique
>still somehow do less damage than fucking knuckle dusters

It gets worse:
The character has +15% unarmed damage, +44% physical damage, and +275% crit power. The character is a Gryphon, which is completely over powered (+55 Phys and +25 Arcane), with the 'cattle set' gear (+13 phys), and at level 24, my Phys is sitting at about 91. If I summon an Earth Elemental, I gain +25% crit and +40% physical damage.

The real killer is the Soldier background, it gives you an insane alpha strike for the first round of combat. Every attack after the first round is about half of what you saw in the image, but you really don't need a second round of combat.

If you're looking at the game from a purely balance perspective, magic is completely useless outside of elementals. And even then, they're not really all that useful beyond the passive buff.

The games complete lack of progression is a major problem, and the biggest contributor to this. You basically go from tutorial monsters to end game monsters in a single, very underwhelming step. And the player progression is equally underwhelming, you go from basically no damage to alpha striking three mobs a round.

So back to magic, why's it bad? Because it can't kill everything in a single round, and the other strategies do. Why would you ever use a spell that couldn't just instantly end the fight unless you were intentionally trying to make the game harder? It's never needed.

This game is fucked. At one point I assumed stuff like this was placeholder garbage that would get phased out, but then like 6 years went by without it being touched.

At least combat is fast, I guess. Don't have to spend much time on the weakest part of the game.

I agree with you 100%.

I doubt this game will ever have a balanced combat mechanic. We are more likely to get more ham fisted nerfs like what happened to lust builds (which is what Carlosdanger was talking about a few posts up), instead of an overhaul and balance of combat.

 

[jfmherokiller]

how many things has Inno nerfed in the past?

 

[Wolfdragon20]

money generated by milk selling for one

 

[Alele Devoir]

Last time I played was a couple months ago, but did they finally add a way to get the spell steal? Also did they add more quests?

 

[Carl0sDanger]

No not at all, the fact you need to be able to summon and heal yourself with spells and need mana regen (or tediously use a shit ton of potions), kinda prove that Magic is the most powerful, even more so when it is the only way to solo everything with ease.

Not only does a Physical build still have a lot of Perks left over for magic (you're going to have more than enough Mana to cast the very occasional Heal), but the ability to summon an Elemental or cast Soothing Waters is a matter of money, not Perks. It's got nothing to do with your build.

 

[tehlemon]

how many things has Inno nerfed in the past?

When spells were OP, a bunch of them were nerfed into the dirt. Flash used to be able to perma stun multiple opponents, for example.

 

[Draupnir7]

I'd probably be more upset about the shit balance and worse 'fixes' if I were playing this for the combat.
There is a weird sort of dishonesty in trying to fix those things, like she's trying to make it look like she cares more than she seems to. I'd give Inno some much-needed respect if she came back with "Are you complaining about it taking less time to get to the shit I made the game for? I'll fuck with it later". Instead, it's "eh, smaller numbers works". And I can't think of a time where that's ever made anyone happy.

 

[CaptainBipto]

how many things has Inno nerfed in the past?

This is all my opinion, so take it for what it's worth:
It's not so much about the quantity of things Inno has nerfed, but more how they went about correcting things.

Lust builds were OP in combat. Time to look at rebalancing combat? NO! NERF Lust builds! Problem solved.
Magic builds are OP in combat. Time to revisit balance in combat? NO! NERF Magic builds. Problem solved.
Physical melee builds are OP in combat. Time to balance combat? ... I expect yet another incoming nerf to cripple melee builds.
Milk farms are OP money generating mechanic. Maybe the economy should have a balance pass? NO! NERF milk prices!

People may not have noticed it, but enchanting TF potions and selling them to Ralph got a nerf recently. The sell prices were reduced about 15% or so. <- That is a balance pass.
I had a 'small' milk farm earning about 350K flames a day. Inno waved their magic nerf hammer and it was more profitable for me to convert my milk slaves into maids and lab assistants and sell the milking room. <- That's not balance, that is a nerf.

Any time there is some over powered or easily abused mechanic, Inno just takes the nerf hammer to that specific thing, instead of looking at an overall view of why something was being abused or how to re-balance (nerf) some mechanic, without just smashing that one thing into the dirt.

 

[GammaXai]

Last time I played was a couple months ago, but did they finally add a way to get the spell steal? Also did they add more quests?

No clue about more quests, I don't think steal is in and if you debug it in it is useless aside from some memery. Both vacuum and steal have needed to be remade since the combat rework years ago.

 

[Deleted member 1216262]

No clue about more quests, I don't think steal is in and if you debug it in it is useless aside from some memery. Both vacuum and steal have needed to be remade since the combat rework years ago.

Steal does work in some way when you max it out.
It pretty much always prioritizes the underwear slot when you activate Steal in battle, it even shows you the full name of the person that you pantysnatched.

 

[GammaXai]

My concern was that it takes eternity in terms of turns to get anything done even when those spells are maxed out. I haven't checked if there is anything you could steal that you couldn't just debug in considering you have to debug in steal or debug the player in to off limits areas to get stuff vacuumed to the floor.

 

[OsoSober]

I agree, soldier class (double damage first round), with knuckle dusters, and martial artist perk (double unarmed base damage)
with enchants to max out physic (100) and then work on health, with combat regeneration perc, and have around 600 health, regen around 25-30 health per combat