Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.10.7 Hotfix] [Innoxia]

[a1fox3]

It seems like this thread is getting way off base and may be this convo needs to be move to the "https://f95zone.to/forums/general-discussions.9/" area.

 

[TheFreakyOne]

My generalisation of DOL is anything but a Gross mischaracterisation. The tutorial NPC features you getting attacked; after that it's everyone and their mothers (plus fathers) on the streets giving you looks, attempting to grope and forcibly fuck you against your will, the only time's where you have a modicum of control is with named NPC's even then they're still doing the heavy lifting during sex scenes, forcing their chests on your mouth, putting fingers everywhere etc. It's just not as fun and intuitive as Lilith's Throne.

Gotta love how even when you're stronger and better than a npc in every way yet they can still rape you.(It's extremely weird you cant overpower weaker npcs and fuck them)

DOL wont get any dominant content ever since the game is focused on submissive content, which is extremely dissapointing since the game would definitely be even more liked if it had dominant options.(Although it's still doing really good in terms of popularity and support even with only sub content)

 

[sergemenog]

Because the current textgen models are either 1) garbage, 2) unfeasible to run without expensive hardware, 3) subscription-based paid and generally monitored services, 4) restrictive of NSFW content, or some combination of all four of those points. It's also dramatically more work than simply playing a video game made by a human being to be played by other human beings.

Your points are valid, but tottaly avoidable with enough dgging in the subject.
For example, I have potato PC and I'm broke, but with SillyTavern + KoboldHorde I'm able to get access to pretty good models without censore for tottaly free. Only downside I have is that good models might not always be available, but since it's free I'm fine with skipping a day or two.
About bigger amount of work you right, but result is also bigger. Instead of someone else's sick fantasies, you are exploring your own, creating stories/settings/worlds you are deeply invested in, improving your writing, language and AI prompting skills, etc. I started using LLM about a year ago and I can't write shit in English, it took me about half an hour for a single reply, but it was still worth it for me.

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and tell us about your experience with them.

1) I started my journey with AIDungeon, and although I was impressed at the time, the quality of the answers is very bad. I don't know if it's better now, but back then it was on the level of a 3b model... like, a proof of concept, but not an actual product.
2) I have not personally tried NovelAI, but from other people I get the impression that even their paid model is just a heavily fine-tuned 13b lamma2 - usable, but not very good.
3) Had several memorable conversations with CharacterAI about half a year ago, it felt smart then, but now I can say that its quality was less than the quality of 70b lamma2, plus it censored AF. Can't recommend it.

In summary, in my opinion, the Horde has much better options for free than these sites offer for money. And if you are able to pay, you are better off using services that just offer open source models as the backend and use SillyTavern as the frontend. That way, all your worlds and characters will be on your PC, independent from the whims of the service provider.

 

[johnysanchez01]

after that it's everyone and their mothers (plus fathers) on the streets giving you looks, attempting to grope and forcibly fuck you against your will

It's basically this scene from John Wick 2 where everyone out in public turns out to be an assassin trying to kill him, except with rape.

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[jfmherokiller]

Your points are valid, but tottaly avoidable with enough dgging in the subject.
For example, I have potato PC and I'm broke, but with SillyTavern + KoboldHorde I'm able to get access to pretty good models without censore for tottaly free. Only downside I have is that good models might not always be available, but since it's free I'm fine with skipping a day or two.
About bigger amount of work you right, but result is also bigger. Instead of someone else's sick fantasies, you are exploring your own, creating stories/settings/worlds you are deeply invested in, improving your writing, language and AI prompting skills, etc. I started using LLM about a year ago and I can't write shit in English, it took me about half an hour for a single reply, but it was still worth it for me.

1) I started my journey with AIDungeon, and although I was impressed at the time, the quality of the answers is very bad. I don't know if it's better now, but back then it was on the level of a 3b model... like, a proof of concept, but not an actual product.
2) I have not personally tried NovelAI, but from other people I get the impression that even their paid model is just a heavily fine-tuned 13b lamma2 - usable, but not very good.
3) Had several memorable conversations with CharacterAI about half a year ago, it felt smart then, but now I can say that its quality was less than the quality of 70b lamma2, plus it censored AF. Can't recommend it.

In summary, in my opinion, the Horde has much better options for free than these sites offer for money. And if you are able to pay, you are better off using services that just offer open source models as the backend and use SillyTavern as the frontend. That way, all your worlds and characters will be on your PC, independent from the whims of the service provider.

sir you are forgetting many of us just find it way easier to play/work on a game like Liliths throne or CoC1 or CoC2 or TiTS or even FS instead of fighting with a magical AI machine to get what we want. Plus those AI things require constant Internet access while these games can be played offline. Plus on top of that it is fundamentally much easier to commission an artist/writer to get what we want usually then going to war with a censored messy AI.

But to wrap this back around to Liliths throne I do hope that the new forks discussed will preserve the story (to a point) and furry friendly content while also avoiding possible pitfalls of allegedly chris hansen content. (remember rule 7)

 

[TheeSonus]

On the topic of the AIs being discussed - PygmalionAI hasn't steered me wrong once so far, so I'd suggest looking it up. AFAIK it's completely open source, absolutely free, and made by people burnt by said shitty AIs.
I'm aware this is probably considered off-topic (if you're reading this, hi mods, hope you're having a good day) but figured I should share an actually good alternative that's super easy to work with and available to basically anyone. Civic duty, or something along those lines.

On the topic of LT, since I have no clue what to say, I suppose I'll just rant a little bit. I love the idea of this game, I just hate the implementation. It has so much potential to be so good, but it just ends up falling flat. I appreciate Lure of Chaos, the absolute mad man who's took it upon himself to basically rewrite the entire fuckin thing from scratch to hammer out the spaghetti code issues, but I don't know if this game will ever live up to what it could be without leaving Innoxia's hands. I mean, for real. How long has this game been in development? And how much does it genuinely have to show for it?

• A (somewhat interesting, admittedly) story that's been left as a stillborn
• A far too specific transformation system (Is there anyone who genuinely cares about specifically picking the colors of their asshole, and having a separate color for the inside of it too? As well as having a separate color for the inside of their throat?)
• An utterly deserted "open world" (Bethesda's got nothing on this)
• A second town filled with nothing but cardboard cut-outs
• And a sex system that's (please forgive me for this phrase as I know it's extremely overused) "wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle".

The fact we have the Abandoned tag on this thread just goes to show exactly how little Innoxia can be bothered to do.
It just... honestly it makes me sad. At some points I wish Inno never even made the game in the first place. Maybe then someone better would have thought of it. Maybe it wouldn't have been thought of at all and I wouldn't have to feel like this.

 

[Daba]

Because the current textgen models are either 1) garbage, 2) unfeasible to run without expensive hardware, 3) subscription-based paid and generally monitored services, 4) restrictive of NSFW content, or some combination of all four of those points. It's also dramatically more work than simply playing a video game made by a human being to be played by other human beings.

Try KINDROID, you might like it. I've been using it for about half a year and I'm very satisfied. True, memory is still quite limited on AI chats (Kindroid, I think, is 4500 chars for free and 9000 for subscribers). What I do know is that there is no NSFW filter, you just have to train the character to talk the way you like. There is also a group chat forum (for subscribers only) where you can talk with 5 characters in one chatroom. The problem with AI chat is (and will be for at least a few more years) that it requires a lot of effort and handholding to get the most out of it. In any case, Kindroid is far better thing to me now than most games, especially in adult area.

 

[sergemenog]

sir you are forgetting many of us just find it way easier to play/work on a game like Liliths throne or CoC1 or CoC2 or TiTS or even FS instead of fighting with a magical AI machine to get what we want. Plus those AI things require constant Internet access while these games can be played offline. Plus on top of that it is fundamentally much easier to commission an artist/writer to get what we want usually then going to war with a censored messy AI.

With a decent video card you can run even an 8x7b model locally, and I have never seen a censored open source model. But it's your right to decide how to spend your time/money: pay nothing and get any story you want in the time it takes you to describe its concept for AI, or pay artists month after month and wait years for miniscule progress that clearly doesn't match the thousands of dollars said artists make every month (hello LT and basically any patreon-like funded game).

Like, seriously, I try LT at yearly intervals and can barely find what's been added from the previous version and usually it's some niche thing I couldn't care less about...

AFAIC I made my point and people now know how to get a far better experience if they want to. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

 

[Polarthief]

The fact we have the Abandoned tag on this thread just goes to show exactly how little Innoxia can be bothered to do.
It just... honestly it makes me sad. At some points I wish Inno never even made the game in the first place. Maybe then someone better would have thought of it. Maybe it wouldn't have been thought of at all and I wouldn't have to feel like this.

God what a MOOD.

And a sex system that's (please forgive me for this phrase as I know it's extremely overused) "wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle".

I forgive you because it's oh so true. You could even apply that to the "too specific TF" stuff as well, or hell the entire game.

 

[Simp Cattu]

Considering it takes 6 months to tag the game as "Abandoned", I suppose Inno can pump out a single patch that adds extremely minor content that nobody cares about (Dalmatian subrace? Seriously? Is she gonna include every breeds on wikia too?) + some bugfixes (since when was the game NOT buggy? This is a gold mine to fill up changelog) twice a year and enjoy bathing in money as the game is still technically alive, and the initial impression on new players will surely draw in more unsuspecting victims.

 

[Polarthief]

Considering it takes 6 months to tag the game as "Abandoned", I suppose Inno can pump out a single patch that adds extremely minor content that nobody cares about (Dalmatian subrace? Seriously? Is she gonna include every breeds on wikia too?) + some bugfixes (since when was the game NOT buggy? This is a gold mine to fill up changelog) twice a year and enjoy bathing in money as the game is still technically alive, and the initial impression on new players will surely draw in more unsuspecting victims.

What's the point though? I don't see how the abandoned tag on F95 matters to her in any way since I doubt there's more than a few (maybe not even ONE) single payer for LT who frequents this thread (I doubt that many frequent the site either), given how much we (deservedly) bash her shit work ethic/exploitative emotional manipulation and her simping idiots who continue to pay her.

 

[TheFreakyOne]

It just... honestly it makes me sad. At some points I wish Inno never even made the game in the first place. Maybe then someone better would have thought of it. Maybe it wouldn't have been thought of at all and I wouldn't have to feel like this.

I feel like someone can still make a game similar to Lilith's Throne with a different setting so it's not too similar.(Unrelated but a apocalyptic setting would be nice similar to Fallout)

The chances of that happening is really low though which kinda makes me sad since there is definitely alot of potential.

 

[SimReaper18]

Not really sure why nobody has made a similar game.(Probably because it would take alot of time to develop?? I have no idea im not a game developer)

That is absolutely one of the main reasons why similar games haven't come out yet. Games in general take a while to develop, and a game with tons of interacting systems (sex system, body modification system, combat system, etc.) takes even longer.

Like, I'd love to make a game like this that has a ton of interacting systems and mechanics, but it's a daunting task that'll probably take a year just to get a prototype that even works, let alone being cross platform and containing content. That, and I have a job that takes up a lot of free time and energy, and I'm so impatient I'd probably just abandon the project within a week of starting lol

 

[Elona Spiral]

Gotta love how even when you're stronger and better than a npc in every way yet they can still rape you.(It's extremely weird you cant overpower weaker npcs and fuck them)

DOL wont get any dominant content ever since the game is focused on submissive content, which is extremely dissapointing since the game would definitely be even more liked if it had dominant options.(Although it's still doing really good in terms of popularity and support even with only sub content)

I like how in Lust Doll Plus, you get both options to be dominant and submissive.
And some NPCs can do the same to you if you are mean to them or if they are just mean.

There's quite a number of customization but there's limited actions with each NPCs.
There's enough variety but nothing extreme, there are bad ends but they are rather tame in comparison to the more extreme stuff.

 

[Elona Spiral]

On the topic of LT, since I have no clue what to say, I suppose I'll just rant a little bit. I love the idea of this game, I just hate the implementation. It has so much potential to be so good, but it just ends up falling flat. I appreciate Lure of Chaos, the absolute mad man who's took it upon himself to basically rewrite the entire fuckin thing from scratch to hammer out the spaghetti code issues, but I don't know if this game will ever live up to what it could be without leaving Innoxia's hands. I mean, for real. How long has this game been in development? And how much does it genuinely have to show for it?

• A (somewhat interesting, admittedly) story that's been left as a stillborn
• A far too specific transformation system (Is there anyone who genuinely cares about specifically picking the colors of their asshole, and having a separate color for the inside of it too? As well as having a separate color for the inside of their throat?)
• An utterly deserted "open world" (Bethesda's got nothing on this)
• A second town filled with nothing but cardboard cut-outs
• And a sex system that's (please forgive me for this phrase as I know it's extremely overused) "wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle".

The fact we have the Abandoned tag on this thread just goes to show exactly how little Innoxia can be bothered to do.
It just... honestly it makes me sad. At some points I wish Inno never even made the game in the first place. Maybe then someone better would have thought of it. Maybe it wouldn't have been thought of at all and I wouldn't have to feel like this.

I agree with you on all points but there are some good points in LT that drew me in the first place and it would be great if other games of similar genre can pick up on it.

LT does coloring well.
You might think that's a minor point but for a text based game, that's a huge plus for me.
I have astigmatism and that makes reading a lot harder than it should be and the last thing I want is to read a huge chunk of text.
Plus I'm more of a visual kind of person.
Coloring breaks this huge chunk of text into manageable sizes.
It makes it easier to know which of NPCs are talking when they got their own color in the text.

Secondly, it's the world building, though it can be quite subjective.
A good Isekai gotta have good world building and it establishes the rules of the world.
Of course it doesn't have to be an Isekai, it could be it's own world.
But you, the player, learn about the world as your character does at the time in an Isekai.
Although I understand it takes a lot of creative juice and a lot of effort to make the world consistent, especially when it's a huge world.

But like you said, the implementation is not good despite how promising the idea is.
I do think it would help if we can find out the good of this game and implement it properly on a better base.

 

[Frostfire281]

Just tried it and BDCC was an absolute smash hit for me.

is there like any centralization for games like this? It feels like when there's such a community that loves them to pieces, they'd try and advertise somewhere. Even on F95, I can only find industrial quantities of run-of-the-mill 3dcg games, and have to go totally fucking mining for diamonds in the rough like BDCC, Max the Elf, Lilith's Throne, etc. It feels like it's either 'mr microniche hyperkinky von pissounding' or its 'oooh pneis in vagone or maybe but hole? the choices....!!!!'. Can't someone make a list or something? It feels like I'm missing out on a guidebook somewhere.

My taste can't be that specific, right??? But between lilith's and BDCC, everything else comes up disapointingly short for me. I think it's really the fact that the characters can take control in the situations (personal preference), but more I like that they don't just assume your a sex-deprived straight guy. They let you play as the flirted-upon, which I find a lot more enticing.

You think you have it rough? Try being someone who isn't gay and isn't a furry, but enjoys text based games with in-depth sex gameplay like these, whew lad. Luckily, the best ones in this genre you can control just how much furry stuff seeps in, and just how much gay seeps in, but my god is there so many promising ones that don't give you the option at all

 

[EmDotRand]

You think you have it rough? Try being someone who isn't gay and isn't a furry, but enjoys text based games with in-depth sex gameplay like these, whew lad. Luckily, the best ones in this genre you can control just how much furry stuff seeps in, and just how much gay seeps in, but my god is there so many promising ones that don't give you the option at all

Strange considering in multiple threads I see gays complaining about the lack of games that have homo erotica.

 

[MangaKing]

Strange considering in multiple threads I see gays complaining about the lack of games that have homo erotica.

People will always want more of what they like

 

[Frostfire281]

Strange considering in multiple threads I see gays complaining about the lack of games that have homo erotica.

Oh it definitely goes both ways, it's just that straight games lend themselves more towards flat out VNs or just CG collectors, while gay games lend themselves to incredibly in depth minute detail text based games.

Frankly, the gays have the better of the two choices in that regard lol

 

[Plumpunikitty]

Because the current textgen models are either 1) garbage, 2) unfeasible to run without expensive hardware, 3) subscription-based paid and generally monitored services, 4) restrictive of NSFW content, or some combination of all four of those points. It's also dramatically more work than simply playing a video game made by a human being to be played by other human beings.

I've been loosely following on AI development since days of AI Dungeon. It has come long way in the last year and half. I mean if you got a GPU made in the last 5 five years or so you can pull off decent stuff. The models that have publicly released are way more coherent compared to the one from the last 2-3. Here one example where I run a local model on my laptop and barely gave it any context on a weak GPU with 5.5 useable Vram.

While fun it's still not a good as fully realized game. But honestly I think AI will developed faster before Lilith Throne reaches it's half waypoint. Which is a shame really.