Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.9.9] [Innoxia]

[tehlemon]

All this shows is just that you don't understand what censorship actually means.

Inno ALLOWS you to support the project out of YOUR OWN VOLITION, if you like the project. At no point was there any contract signed. You are no customer. You are a private person, giving another private person money, nothing more.

From aggressively selling yourself short to just like, aggressively wrong. But whatever. You don't understand how free to play works as a business model. And I don't care enough to actually explain it to you. No one in life owes you anything, including me. You can't see it, but I actually rolled my eyes there.

I kinda jumped into this whole drama by accident lol.

So is the dev in the middle of an Yandere Dev situation?

Sorta, but a little different. Here's the general recap:

Both games are... technically challenged, lets say. There's some serious questions whether this game is technically capable of actually continuing much longer. You can see an example of this with the other person showing off their crash. 250 NPCs and the game dies. We're supposed to be getting like 10 more fully fleshed out areas full of NPCs. That's not going to be possible.

There are a lot of basic optimizations that could be used, but I'm not personally confident. The dev started the project as an amateur and it kind of shows. But she also refuses any help outside of from a couple specific people, who really aren't going to provide the help needed either.

The other half of the drama is the delays. Like, its kind of gotten to the point where it's a running gag. So much so that she had to disable all comments on the official blog, and the discord chases out anyone who says anything. Which is why this thread is now so active. She didn't want another blog post with 1000 comments making fun of how slow the game development is, I guess lol

It's been like two years since we've got a major game update that expands the actual story or play area of the game. It's been six or seven months of the dev outright telling us she's working on the next area, only to delay until the next patch. And in the last two updates we found out that no content has been worked on for those areas.

There's not really drama about the dev being a creepy asshole or anything like that. The worst I can say about her is that she obvious lied quite a bit about what she was working on. But at least, as far as I'm aware, there hasn't been any weird sexual drama involving minors or anything. Outside of one or two people this is more 'laughing at the situation' drama and not 'we might want to call the police' drama lol

If you want to force them to spawn then there is an item you can buy in the City Hall, the

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. Get that item, stand on a dangerous tile and use the map from your inventory (it'll be in the last "backpack"/tab thing, as a special item). That will bring up a list of your children.
Even with the map, some races of children can only spawn in certain environments (the article mentions some examples).

You can also just explore until you find them, but that's a pain. I wouldn't recommend it unless you have an arcane storm going. If a storm is going you can at least one shot the NPCs with tease and then remove them, so you can spam through explorations without having to spawn in many tiles worth of NPCs.

 

[Sepulchure]

You can also just explore until you find them, but that's a pain. I wouldn't recommend it unless you have an arcane storm going. If a storm is going you can at least one shot the NPCs with tease and then remove them, so you can spam through explorations without having to spawn in many tiles worth of NPCs.

Thanks, im trying to edit the save file to see if i can insert 50,000 flames but i dont seem to find the values Dx

 

[redcynic]

So, for those interested, there's actually entire theses developing around the concept of the patreon business model. After all, its sort of a unique halfway point. A patreon dev isnt really selling a product after all, they're either selling access to something (only subs get the product)- which has a business precedent, or they're selling early access to something that eventually is free. That bit's more murky.

Inno uses the second model. Again, there's no actual product being promised. Patreon's own terms go over this: Paying for patreon content is basically paying money to support someone, not to receive a product. The fact that the creator gives you something is, legally, separate from the patreon. That's why 'patreon scams' exist, common-sense wise its obvious a particular dev isnt really giving you anything, but legally you're just "supporting someone you like" and dont super have any recourse to demand a product as you would if say, you paid a pizza place 20 a month and got 4 pizzas of your choice every month and then they didnt give you the pizzas. This is distnatly tied to the fact that digital services are still a new subject on the legal frontier.


However! It's also correct that its patently obvious Inno derives a living from the patreon. You can say that this means she has to develop the game, and on a PR level and a 'well duh' level, yes. But legally? I'm pretty sure no. The model here is supposed to be that if you dont think the creator is doing enough to earn your money, you stop subscribing. But that's different to "Inno took my money so she HAS to give me the developed game." This is actually part of why I think the development is where it is. In a traditional games model (or even a kickstarter model), there is an expectation that something is going to happen. a game will be released, a game will contain certain features, in exchange, money will be given. And in that scenario, Inno's deadlines would be actual deadlines. she'd HAVE to make the game or face consequences. But here, especially with how patreons naturally develop communities around them, she's found a safe place to sort of...meander.


But hey maybe i dont know wtf im on about and this is just some person pontificating on a porn forum about a BLOATY ASS JAVA GAME HOLY SHIT CLEAN YOUR CODE. But also seriously check out some of the articles about the 'creator support' business model. Neat shit.

Thanks, im trying to edit the save file to see if i can insert 50,000 flames but i dont seem to find the values Dx

I'd say just use the buggy command in game? the save files are....weird.

 

[crash.7ds]

Thanks, im trying to edit the save file to see if i can insert 50,000 flames but i dont seem to find the values Dx

You can use the "buggy" command to pull up debug and give yourself twice that much at a time if you want. As for the save file itself, look for your character's data block (by character name is easiest), then scroll down about two-three pages down untill you see characterInventory and just below that is "money value=". That's your flames count. You could also just search for the current value itself.

 

[NODOGAN]

Thanks, im trying to edit the save file to see if i can insert 50,000 flames but i dont seem to find the values Dx

just type "BUGGY" on an empty tile in the game and you'll open the game's own mod, you can give yourself all the flames, items and stats you need there, alongside transformations and pretty much anything you need.

I use it's transformation option everytime i do a new run out of boredom to test out which race would be the best one for the character build i feel like making because i have a HUGE min-maxer complex when it comes to rpgs and exploiting mechanics without actually flat out cheating is funny to me.

 

[redcynic]

The only min maxing that occurs in Lilith's Throne is the memory requirements :rimshot:

Minimum content, maximum memory!

 

[DerWahrePeter]

From aggressively selling yourself short to just like, aggressively wrong. But whatever. You don't understand how free to play works as a business model. And I don't care enough to actually explain it to you. No one in life owes you anything, including me. You can't see it, but I actually rolled my eyes there.

What the hell are you on about? LT isn't a F2P game. Inno isn't a business. Inno is a private person. She enabled you to support her fiscally. Nothing more. You are deluding yourself if you think it's anything else.

 

[DerWahrePeter]

Yeah, Inno may not have any legal responsibility to her patrons, but she has a moral responsibility to them. They give her their money with the expectation that they will get something in return, even if there's no formal agreement involves, so Inno ought to do the thing she said she was doing to get their money.

The patrons are deluding themselves then. And they ought to stop. Inno wants to keep developing LT, and she wants to keep her promises, but she doesn't have to. If you are pledging to her for anything other than her continued development, then you are deluding yourself. If you are unhappy with the progress she is making, stop your pledge. If you want to reward her for an update you liked, but aren't happy with the overall speed of development, pledge once. It's really not that hard.

 

[DerWahrePeter]

I kinda jumped into this whole drama by accident lol.

So is the dev in the middle of an Yandere Dev situation?

Not really, Inno is just slower than even she expected, and some people deem it proper to call her incompetent or a fraud for that, when it's the same spiel with any other game that got ever deloped with patreon money.

 

[throbzombie]

The patrons are deluding themselves then. And they ought to stop. Inno wants to keep developing LT, and she wants to keep her promises, but she doesn't have to. If you are pledging to her for anything other than her continued development, then you are deluding yourself. If you are unhappy with the progress she is making, stop your pledge. If you want to reward her for an update you liked, but aren't happy with the overall speed of development, pledge once. It's really not that hard.

I agree about Inno's patrons; anyone who supports Inno at this point is a sucker, but I think you're giving her too much credit here. Unless she is an ingnoramus, she should have learned her limits months ago and stopped making unrealistic promises. She hasn't done that, so we can only assume that a) she's dumb as bricks and doesn't learn or b) she's opportunistically taking advantage of the limitless goodwill of her gullible fans, or c) she has a fragile ego and can't handle criticism, so she only pays attention to her simps, giving her the false impression that, save for a few trolls trying to stir the pot, everybody's really happy with how the project is going, which may be true, for all I know.

Or maybe it's a combination of one or more of these scenarios. Or maybe I'm wrong and retarded and you shouldn't pay attention to me, anyway. I dunno.

 

[redcynic]

I mean, she's competence-challenged at the very least, the game limps along on jank code and legitimately cannot support more than a certain number of NPCs (that number being less than the 'planned' number of static NPCs, not even counting the supposed ability to have newly generated ones from buying slaves or having kids)

The game works but it doesn't work very well and it is approaching the point of not being able to work at all past a certain point.

Fraud? No. Incompetent? We'll see.

 

[DerWahrePeter]

Unless she is an ingnoramus, she should have learned her limits months ago and stopped making unrealistic promises.

She stopped making promises. Then people got pissy that there were no promises. So she started making promises again, with the note that she will try to meet the deadlines, but probably won't.

 

[throbzombie]

I mean, she's competence-challenged at the very least, the game limps along on jank code and legitimately cannot support more than a certain number of NPCs (that number being less than the 'planned' number of static NPCs, not even counting the supposed ability to have newly generated ones from buying slaves or having kids)

The game works but it doesn't work very well and it is approaching the point of not being able to work at all past a certain point.

Fraud? No. Incompetent? We'll see.

Yeah, as poorly as it runs right now, I have to wonder whether LT even can be completed, considering how much there is to do. Perhaps Inno wrote herself into a corner, technically speaking, and now she's afraid of hitting a wall when the code reaches but is also wary of having to scrap the project and start over, for obvious reasons. I'm sure glad I'm not her if that's the case.

She stopped making promises. Then people got pissy that there were no promises. So she started making promises again, with the note that she will try to meet the deadlines, but probably won't.

I said "unrealistic promises". Admittedly, I came into this drama pretty late, so there's a lot I might be missing, but if Inno just made promises that she knew she could keep, then I think that a lot of the ill will would dry up. But building on Redcynic's comment, it would be best for everybody if she'd just come clean about what's been going on, and honestly and transparently explain the difficulties that she has been experiencing. It'd be a painful bandage to rip off, but it's better than the project drowning in a sea of venom and empty promises. The way things are going, nobody's coming out of this project smelling like a rose.

 

[Fuzzcat]

That's literally an example of censorship...

The game is literally a product Inno is offering and hoping you'll give her money to develop. That's literally how this works. A person trades their time and labor for money. This is literally her job, and we're literally her customers. Well, not all of us anymore.

She doesn't owe you anything, unless, you know, she wants to earn a living. Then she owes her customers in the exact same way any business does.

I've haven't watched anyone so aggressively sell themselves short in quiet a while.

I am no zealot, tell the Discord there is no authoritarianism, conspiracy, or censorship since they didn't get the memo, what you say will not change my mind, I'm angry because Inno lied, and the mods here already purged the thread for this topic once, so I suggest it gets dropped, at least here. If you want to continue this in a PM, fine, I'm game, but not in the game thread due to the lurking danger of mods.

Ah, whatever.
The type of people that keeps arguing pointlessly just to convince themselves they're right without doubt.

So:
Yeah, you're right, you win, whatever.

Inno ALLOWS you to support the project out of YOUR OWN VOLITION, if you like the project. At no point was there any contract signed. You are no customer. You are a private person, giving another private person money, nothing more.

Pretty much.

She is offering something, not asking.
It is kinda funny how people tends to demand and think they're "entitled to", when in reality they're not only contributing anything, but worse, they're not even "tipping the jar" (which is how LT works)

Anyways, done with drama queens *shrug*

 

[Fuzzcat]

Genuine question for those that modded LT:

is there a file with the description of each location's tiles?
I want to try something (graphical), but taking note of each tile's decsription while walking around is WAY too time-consuming (more considering there are several locations)

 

[Chingonerio]

is there a file with the description of each location's tiles?

You mean the little blurbs describing the area whenever you enter a tile? Those are contained in the *.java files inside the dialogue directory

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(on the public github). So, for example, ./src/com/lilithsthrone/game/dialogue/places/dominion/CityPlaces.java contains the descriptions for every tile that you can spawn in the city of Dominion's overworld map (i.e.- outside of houses, buildings, the mall, the Enforcers' HQ, etc.).

 

[Fuzzcat]

You mean the little blurbs describing the area whenever you enter a tile? Those are contained in the *.java files inside the dialogue directory

You must be registered to see the links

(on the public github). So, for example, ./src/com/lilithsthrone/game/dialogue/places/dominion/CityPlaces.java contains the descriptions for every tile that you can spawn in the city of Dominion's overworld map (i.e.- outside of houses, buildings, the mall, the Enforcers' HQ, etc.).

Perfect, exactly what I was asking for, many thanks!

 

[NajaNaga]

Are there any major, progress-stopping bugs with re-enabling the followers, currently? So far I've only found myself getting locked after defeating a bunch of imps (it might have been an imp fortress fight) unless I sent my follower home before the fight began.

 

[redcynic]

Hilariously, because there's been no content DONE since they scrapped followers, you're not missing anything if you bring them along. So no, nothing progress-stopping at all.

(I do actually support her dropping that, followers exponentially complicate sex scenes)

 

[throbzombie]

Are there any major, progress-stopping bugs with re-enabling the followers, currently? So far I've only found myself getting locked after defeating a bunch of imps (it might have been an imp fortress fight) unless I sent my follower home before the fight began.

I haven't encountered any major bugs, myself, but there are bound to be hiccups here and there.