OffPathGames

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Game Developer
Apr 23, 2020
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It might be just a simple lack of patience, but often times when I see extreme extensions to RPGM I just get the vibe that it just might have been easier to do in Unity or something like that.
So I actually started with Unity - and was doing a diablo-like action game with action H and animations. I may go back to that system another time - but I ran into the same problem where I was either using a 3rd party extension like the ORK RPG system and having to learn that and then also extend that system for sex or coding an RPG from scratch. Also, art assets are still a problem. I had to go buy a bunch of UI pieces, learn Unity UI, create dialogue, combat etc all from scratch or using 3rd party stuff which I also had to learn the commands for.

I started implementing the stat system and then realized I didn't code the sex system and combat system on the same stat framework bc I was hardcoding for prototyping and would have to spend a month fixing that. I implemented dialogue and then spend 3 days trying to figure out how to scale the text to resolution bc the plugin didn't support that. I implemented an item system, then had to extend it to make penis, vagina etc items, then figured out the item system wouldn't work for that because I'd have to break my hierarchy to bring character stats into those items so I recoded that.

So all these systems have problems. People here are talking theoretically about how Unity or some language is powerful enough to code these games - but the problem is knowing what you want to design and then prototyping it in a way where you won't have to code everything from scratch or rework the technicals all the time while releasing regular content at the same time. Obviously LT is pretty simple in concept but getting it to code and then adding content without breaking it is probably way harder than people here realize.

What I figured was that RPG Maker was the best prototyping system to figure out all these problems and have a good framework for displaying content and dialogue that wouldn't break all the time.
 
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tehlemon

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2021
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People here are talking theoretically about how Unity or some language is powerful enough to code these games - but the problem is knowing what you want to design and then prototyping it in a way where you won't have to code everything from scratch or rework the technicals all the time while releasing regular content at the same time. Obviously LT is pretty simple in concept but getting it to code and then adding content without breaking it is probably way harder than people here realize.

What I figured was that RPG Maker was the best prototyping system to figure out all these problems and have a good framework for displaying content and dialogue that wouldn't break all the time.
I mean, yeah. That is one of the hard parts of designing and coding anything, not just for building a game. There's a lot of planning and design work to be done before you even start coding for that exact reason. You're not just designing game systems, you're designing workflow and Skipping that portion of the design process is how you end up with a mess like LT.

Stuff like modding support and having a good way to generate content that doesn't require constantly reworking should be planned ahead for. The reason LT sucks to add content on was because it was badly designed from the start. That's why those systems are constantly being reworked to try and make it less shit. If you skip the important planning and design steps, you'll end up in the exact shitty position you just described.
 

Sarkath

Active Member
Sep 8, 2019
510
854
So I actually started with Unity - and was doing a diablo-like action game with action H and animations. I may go back to that system another time - but I ran into the same problem where I was either using a 3rd party extension like the ORK RPG system and having to learn that and then also extend that system for sex or coding an RPG from scratch. Also, art assets are still a problem. I had to go buy a bunch of UI pieces, learn Unity UI, create dialogue, combat etc all from scratch or using 3rd party stuff which I also had to learn the commands for.

I started implementing the stat system and then realized I didn't code the sex system and combat system on the same stat framework bc I was hardcoding for prototyping and would have to spend a month fixing that. I implemented dialogue and then spend 3 days trying to figure out how to scale the text to resolution bc the plugin didn't support that. I implemented an item system, then had to extend it to make penis, vagina etc items, then figured out the item system wouldn't work for that because I'd have to break my hierarchy to bring character stats into those items so I recoded that.
Art assets aside (can sympathize—I'm definitely not an artist!), it sounds like more of a process problem than a tool problem in this case. I get the impression that you did a lot of learning/prototyping in situ, which is a very risky approach when you're putting a project together.

It sounds like you've gotten over a lot of those hurdles with your current game, but here's some unsolicited advice anyway:

I would strongly advise keeping your experimental prototypes far away from your production code. Sometimes you can evolve a prototype into the basis for a project, but generally that's only doable after a few iterations.

When you're scoping out a new project, you should develop a technical scope before you even open the IDE/engine tools. You're not going to be able to nail down every aspect, but if you go in knowing roughly what your project is going to look on a technical level it'll help significantly.

It's pretty easy to forget specifics when you have a lot of moving parts, so you need to come up with a way to organize them. Using a Kanban board is a pretty good way to organize everything. Two popular examples are and (I personally use , since I can self-host it). Basically, you scope out your project in tasks and subtasks, then you can drag them around a grid to signify their status (for example: new, declined, in progress, on hold, in testing, complete…whatever best fits your workflow, really). It gives you a nice visual of where everything stands so that you don't suddenly realize that you're missing something at a crucial moment, and it's a huge boon if you ever bring on other team members.

This isn't really related to design, per se, but learn (or another SCM) if you haven't already. If you make a fucky wucky at some point it gives you the option of rolling back to previous versions of the code, among other things. If you collaborate with another dev at some point, I'd consider an SCM to be mandatory.

Most importantly: don't be afraid to throw away work. Learning through failure is an important skill to develop. Just try to make sure that your failures happen outside of your main project (or, at the very least, occur in a separate code branch). :)

Obviously LT is pretty simple in concept but getting it to code and then adding content without breaking it is probably way harder than people here realize.
I've found that non-developers tend to be split down the middle with regards to their attitude on programming. Half think that even writing a "Hello World!" program is an insurmountable feat that can only be accomplished by the gods, while the other half consists of the "adding multiplayer is ez lol" category.

In truth, a lot of difficulty can be mitigated with proper design. The issue in this particular case is that LT never seemed to have a proper design: it mutated rather than evolved. It's not to say that Inno went in without a plan—she absolutely did have a plan, and a lot of thought went into various aspects of the game's design. The problem is that most of that plan consisted of world, lore, and things of that nature. High level design stuff, really. The code behind all of this is a bit of a mess. Very little attention was given to how computers would process data, and that's one of the things that leads to it wildly thrashing memory (among other things). Yeah, it works, but it's a house of cards waiting to fall (and the fact that I can easily and consistently get it to run very poorly on a modern high-end CPU is kind of silly).

And, of course, there's the financial aspect. Perspective changes drastically when money starts to change hands. An inconsistent schedule is excusable if you're already maintaining a full-time job (unless you have a very entitled fanbase), but when something is your full-time job it naturally leads to more scrutiny.

What I figured was that RPG Maker was the best prototyping system to figure out all these problems and have a good framework for displaying content and dialogue that wouldn't break all the time.
It kind of feels to me like Unity forces you to build what you need more or less from scratch, whereas RPG Maker gives you a ton of functionality up front and asks you to mold it to your specifications should you need to escape its boundaries.
 
Apr 9, 2019
177
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This is slowly turning into a "How to make a video game" discussion page
Is there anything else productive to be talking about? Normally game threads discuss the content of the game, the mechanics, the narrative, and what have you, sadly we haven't seen a substantial release of any new material within these categories for a very long time.
 

StapleComm

Active Member
Apr 24, 2020
746
477
Slowly? We've been talking about game design for like two years now lol

And its not like there's anything to talk about with the game. We've gotten like, an hours worth of content in the last year.
I never really noticed in-depth discussions. Well, to be fair it's not like I monitor this thread
 

tehlemon

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2021
1,224
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v0.4.2.9 Public Release



Patch Notes
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For a game where you don't even need to do most of the writing, it amazes me how terribly slow Inno is with the writing. This isn't like any of the other games where you might need to right 20000 words to make a single good sex scene, most of them are like, a couple paragraphs. Yet this is the biggest content update we've gotten in like 9 months.
 

Tattletale21

Member
Jan 26, 2020
319
395
For a game where you don't even need to do most of the writing, it amazes me how terribly slow Inno is with the writing. This isn't like any of the other games where you might need to right 20000 words to make a single good sex scene, most of them are like, a couple paragraphs. Yet this is the biggest content update we've gotten in like 9 months.
wait, wait, fucking excuse you? this is the biggest in the last nine months? this? there's nothing here! aside from that one 'raptor-species' inclusion...

looks at previous releases.

well fuck me running it really is. none of this is important. none of it. none of this adds anything anyone wants to the game aside from maybe the bug fixes - few of them that there are. there's nothing here, none of these 'changes' do anything that anyone gives a fuck for. how is this an update?

i know i sound harsher than i usually do - i'm naturally a raging misanthropic asshole and i know it baybeeeee - but seriously Inno what the fuck.
 
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Ghost2529

Newbie
Oct 31, 2018
69
79

There is a new update out, links were posted to Innoxia's Discord, the above is the relevant Blog post.
 

Dr.Feelgood

Member
Sep 21, 2018
178
223
Sweet shit on a stick. What was the point of posting this update when:

A) It wasn't even finished yet. (placeholders, admitting it will be very buggy upon release)

B) It was already late by a week and some how still half-assed which is just... typical Inno, now that I think about it.

C) The only thing it will likely accomplish is fanning the flames of anger from people who still believe there is something worth salvaging in this game, which probably restart the pity party that Inno seems to have going on in her Discord if it died down somewhat during the holidays. Hell, maybe that's what those couple of blindly loyal fans of hers came in here for? They got bored of waiting for an update and tried stirring the pot a bit?

I want to say more, but I am not going to find out if it means downloading and building the damn update will take longer than it will to go through the entirety of the game again. Fuck that. I can do a lot more entertaining stuff instead of that. I could... I don't know? Watch paint dry? Wash my car with a tooth brush and a bucket of my own piss? Wait and see if the stalwart defenders from earlier have anything to say in defense of this update? Maybe I could even shove a broom handle up my ass and jump out of a tree to see if I can fly? The options are almost endless at this point.

To whomever is the brave/bored/spiteful soul that is going to trudge through this update to see five minutes worth of new content; be sure to tell us how the new dating sim compares to the last one we got with Nyan... or at least with the portion that isn't still filled in with placeholders.
 

tehlemon

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2021
1,224
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You go chill at a spa and can fuck the masseuse, from a choice of one of three sheep girls or the owner. That's about it, really.
I mean, that's perfect. She could recycle basically anything spa related from the already existing content saving her time on writing this stuff. She only had like 6 months to work on this, after all.
 

DietrichGRU

Newbie
Nov 21, 2020
15
48
Why not have a mer-shark in charge of the spa? Or an alligator-morph? Or a serpent-morph? Or anything that isn't covered in floof?
Although it's hard to divinate dev's line of thinking, I'd wager it was like this:
Elis and it's area are supposed to be populated by rural species. So, ideally, every one of them should be represented in some sort of way. Spa was added and a sheep was thrown in charge of the spa for diversity sake.
Why not make sheep to be in charge of some weaving enterprise? Because fuck you and the concussion you get by slipping on wet wool. Or because weaving mill sounds less lewd than a spa. Or because sheep in this universe do not shed fur. Who knows?
 
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