Unity LOK: Rebirth [v0.1.8.0 Test] [The Tribe Devs]

[Tannin00]

And what about people who have contributed in some way?
There are people who were Patreons for a long time, they gave their money and their investment for quite a while. And there are people who gave their time and even tried participating in game's discord channel in some way in order to contribute directly to the game development.
What about those people? Should they also just shut up and be ignored?
Not everyone just came here and started giving critiques after playing for free, no, there are people who have actually invested into the game one way or another and I think that they should be able to voice their dissatisfaction with the project's development direction or if they find their experience underwhelming in some way.
There are also people who also know a thing or two about game development and if they want to share their experience, should they also be silenced?

This idea of "If you are negative, then you should just shut up and move along" is not only dumb, but it's also a detrumental one. Developers very often can get intangled within their own fantasies and lose their focus of what is important, they can overrate their skills and plan way too much, thus not achieving anything in particular. Sometimes everyone requires a "reality check" and negative feedback can do just that. I agree that when giving negative feedback one should control their words and not overstep their boundaries though - be constructive, don't switch to personalities and try explain why something doesn't click with you or in your opinion just doesn't work out.
But the overall idea of shutting people because some content is free is an absolute BS. This is the Internet, people are free to voice their opinions whatever they are. And if they overstep their boundaries web-site has mods, who will judge the situation and will act accordingly to it.

For the first part, and?
Like everything in this beautiful and disgusting world we live in, nothing is true and everything is true.
People who supported the project in the past clearly have the right to get angry and yell all they want, but because it happened, that doesn´t imply that it gives them the absolute right to complain whenever they want, even if who was the culprit (more or less in this case, given that recalling, they exposed the problem that existed and it was by the majority of the vote of those who contributed that the decision of the restart was reached instead of the continuation with the old model that, of continue in it, it would cause things to be implemented in a way that the more they touched of the above, the more time it would take to re-accommodate everything and therefore, more time between one version and another, while if instead, it had been for their saints Eggs close the old model and start this one [for the degree of hatred and criticism that has been seen] with all the pleasure that they get angry and even I would support the scream, but it was decided fairly by the majority and not because one was of the side to continue, it gives the right to be angry for life about it) they showed their faces and are trying to make things right, instead of closing the door and as if nothing had happened.

A worse and better example was the case of No man's sky. Worse because what they did was unlikely and they even tried to escape. And better because, yes ... thanks to the continuous witch hunt that people did, they managed to force them to improve the game to the point where, in my humble opinion, although it doesn´t reach what they promised, the game is hundreds of times better than what they started with and even if you don't know what happened, the game is enjoyable.

The point that I tried to say was that, yes ... the cry to the sky reached, anger and even what wasn´t necessary was said, and? The team at no time tried to escape, the change wasn´t made by their holy will but was made by the election of the majority in a clear and fair vote, those who were on one side or the other or didn´t participate and were contributing, of course that they can and should get angry and withdraw their support, but not for that, they have the right to be day and night trying to attack, damage or prevent that if others in their free will whether or not they inform themselves (for this point, it is impossible that there is no one who doesn´t find out) and they want to support, try to prevent it or make those who still believe in their word and support or are new feel as if they were support at birth or contribute from some world evil.

As I mentioned, we all have our own lives and we do with it what we want or can and if you want to spend how much or little you have on something, be it good, bad, enriching or degrading, it is your choice given that and as indicated when you are going to support in patreon, kick, etc., as an adult that you are or supposedly you are, in your free will, having (we know that almost nobody) read the rules and already on your own depending on whether or not you informed yourself about what that you are going to spend, is the decision and its due response.

Also, if we leave aside all the above mentioned, this is like investing in something (cryptocurrencies, banks, stocks, etc.) investing is a continuous bet, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. Sometimes when you win you even help something to happen and sometimes when you lose, it is absolutely, although the same can also apply to things bought in full. How many times has there not been a time when something doesn´t deserve what it is worth or for what it gives, it is even unfair that it is only worth that? But that already depends on each one to define it, because there is no absolute truth for anything that is not of natural origin, elemental or more in our domain and even those for the moment.

The criticism applied in the right direction is to help those who haven´t been able to make a decision to create one, while the criticism carried to the extremes as those that have been reached here, not only has already passed the point of what is understandable and acceptable , but it is already about to reach the toxic point (on a scale from less to greater obviously) than some communities (it goes without saying, we all know what I mean) in some places because they don´t like "one" or "another" thing They demand in such a way (and because of their economic weight above all) that regardless of whether they ruin that "one" or "other" for others, they get it and the rest get screwed. And that point can come here even when the date or dates that said something new would come out haven´t even arrived, if it had already happened, it would not be worth trying to calm the storm in the glass, but that isn´t the case.

For the second part. I agree, but the problem is that even the mods on the site have already gotten rid of the situation here, it was 2 or 3 times that they asked to please stop talking about the subject (because the subject had already been discussed and for the record to inform anyone who came, the idea was already too expressed) but since people haven´t stopped (nor are they going to stop) for a long time as long as some strong rule isn´t broken, they no longer bother to intervene in this matter, such as It happens in other threads in which there are more reasons to be angry about how the devs of their respective projects act.

The feedback of course is good and necessary, but when it is already well known and even the developers themselves have already said that they know it and within the measure of what can be tried to pay attention (since one thing is to listen and try to fulfill most of what is possible and another is that they move everything fully or completely to the beat of what the community demands, there isn´t a single game [at least of medium relevance] that 100% or 80% does everything that the community demands and that is also good, because even if it is the community who pays for the development or who buys, that doesn´t give the right to bind the creator or creators to change the work to their liking, except that from the beginning there is any clause, option or possibility that has been established from the beginning.

 

[Tannin00]

And in case someone comes later and tries to refute what was said:

1. Yes, this is the internet and do what you want as the good man says, but for this case in which even the moderators have been dealt with, please let us try that until proven otherwise, not to create more hatred than what it was already more than expressed.

2. I don´t defend this project or any other, from the minute one is launched (in any way) and they enter access or advance (V, alpha-betas, etc.,) the developers with their communities have a commitment and them to get to thank, criticize or ask and only if it is shown that there are faults in them to sue up to a certain point, because remember that nothing binds you to continue supporting something that you do not want.

3. The idea of why one is more developed, one knows more or more than another, doesn´t give the right to criticize the way someone does things, yes ... it is fine and the sharing of information is more than welcome. , but when such information is used to attack, criticize the shape of something or the time that someone takes, it isn´t only stupid and unfair (again, unless there is existing evidence that shows some fault on the part of any of the parties) given to that the conditions in which one can find oneself, the development that one has had and the experiences that one has accumulated are so variable from one person to another that and for things of this style that are not or are advertised as something professional, it is boring to wait for an "assumed" grade to be met (that not even among professional fat people there is a fixed grade or level) regardless of the amount of money that said proposal will receive (since for this, if there were few active members of the project and the finances are high, there if the claim is right, but in this case, the ratio at the moment is 40-60 [something that many other projects of this style don´t meet]).

Anyway, I have lengthened more than I expected for this topic. With nothing more to add, I am retiring for now.

PS: Unless something big happens or the promised date or dates arrive (for better or worse), if I don´t comment in this thread on any criticism that comes to what has been said, it isn´t because I don´t read it or ignore it, it is just that I do value my time and waste it (unless I want or feel like it) to debate if a breast looks better or worse or if a set of pixels is more attractive or not, or if it should be hunted by sky, sea or land to the demons of the devs or to protect the martyrs of the devs, after so much shit that I have seen in my life, it is something so old-fashioned that it bores babies.

Addio.

 

[chopolander]

I am absolutely convinced that you believe practically all the... the barbarities you have said
I wonder how much you have donated to the current or previous project to dare to question how people should act.

 

[Phanatic]

Stuff

I'm sorry but this is just an insane amount of verbal diarrhea.

I understand that you must be not fluent with English, because all of the above is physically hard to read. Whenever you write something, remember: read it out loud and look if you can even say it normally. At one point you have written 11! lines of thoughts that intervine and intersect between each other without making a single dot. It's hard to understand anything what you've written.
Breathe in, breathe out, hold it, make a stop, then continue.
Half of the ideas are really awkwardly phrased and some of them end without making a sense ["Sometimes when you win you even help something to happen and sometimes when you lose, it is absolutely, although the same can also apply to things bought in full"].
I understand that not everyone can voice their ideas skillfully and not everyone knows english to its best, but when you want to make a point, you need to make sure other people can understand what you are saying. I'm myself not a native English user, but I've experienced English conversations for over a decade (including difficult scientific texts) and this is the first time in a while when I struggle to make any sense of what is written.
Sorry, for being off topic, but since you decided to defend your position regarding original point, you need to know that you need to make a better effort in terms of phrasing and text editing in order to change people's minds.

Regarding the points you made:
Nobody has any obligations before anyone else, nobody signed any contracts and there are no laws invloved. You may choose to ignore anyone and everything, live in a separate bubble from the entire world and do your stuff if this is what you want.
But this is not how this world works.
You live in a society and you get profits from that society. If you get profit from that society but you decide to ignore them, you end up being hypocritical and just abusive.
For the part of contributors - you have the right to stand for your purchases, for your investment and for your rights. You have all the freedom to voice your disappointments and problems with whoever and whatever reason you may have. You just need to make sense and have adequate reasons to do so.
Even if information that you say is repeated over and over, it doesn't mean that it's useless, since your statement creates statistic and makes sure that this problem that is mentioned hasn't been fixed, thus it must be remembered.

Everything that you stated above shows how little value you have towards the potential consumer. You insist on an absolutely spineless attitude thinking that no stress creates a better product, where it doesn't. Stress is one of the main reasons people get to create better products because it makes them invent better approaches and to look once in a while out of their comfort zone. Not only that, but you want a completely stale working environment, where there's only positivity and nothing else. Such attitude will only bring laziness and one-train-thought approach, which is detrumental because it generates hubris.

You have a very naive vision to how this world functions and you clearly don't understand how competitive and proffessional environments work. I'm sure it comes from the right place, but your attitude is deleterious and will bring worse results in the end.
You are free to say your mind of course, but just from me - next time when you create such discussions, read it out loud first. And if you notice that you need to breathe in and out during your speech, make sure to put a dot somewhere in there. Otherwise it's really hard to read.

 

[MightyAltroll]

I'm sorry but this is just an insane amount of verbal diarrhea.

I could say the same for your paragraphs. I was able to understand both of your arguments well enough. You're very rude to this person, along with the 3 other people that sit in this thread with nothing better to do but to disparage everyone that has any hope in this project.

Regarding the points you made:
Nobody has any obligations before anyone else, nobody signed any contracts and there are no laws invloved. You may choose to ignore anyone and everything, live in a separate bubble from the entire world and do your stuff if this is what you want.
But this is not how this world works.

It is how a lot of the world works, actually.

You live in a society and you get profits from that society. If you get profit from that society but you decide to ignore them, you end up being hypocritical and just abusive.

Pseudo-socialist viewpoint, confusing making profits with being a good person? Do you think Jeff Bezos is a good contributing member of society? Do you believe that he cares about your individual complaints? Do you think he would take the time to respond to someone like this? I question whether he even has a soul.

For the part of contributors - you have the right to stand for your purchases, for your investment and for your rights. You have all the freedom to voice your disappointments and problems with whoever and whatever reason you may have. You just need to make sense and have adequate reasons to do so.

That is correct, you can voice whatever displeasure you want. However this is just mindless harassment at this point. I have heard every negative point in this thread a thousand times over from the same 4 or 5 people. You are not doing anything worth while, you are not changing anything, you're just annoying people that actually care about the game.

Even if information that you say is repeated over and over, it doesn't mean that it's useless, since your statement creates statistic and makes sure that this problem that is mentioned hasn't been fixed, thus it must be remembered.

No, actually, it loses credibility because it becomes incessant whining. Do you listen to someone that complains about everything 24/7?

Everything that you stated above shows how little value you have towards the potential consumer. You insist on an absolutely spineless attitude thinking that no stress creates a better product, where it doesn't. Stress is one of the main reasons people get to create better products because it makes them invent better approaches and to look once in a while out of their comfort zone. Not only that, but you want a completely stale working environment, where there's only positivity and nothing else. Such attitude will only bring laziness and one-train-thought approach, which is detrumental because it generates hubris.

As much as I despise monopolies and corporate shills, the consumer can most often be an entitled asshole. Anyone that has ever worked retail in their lives, or worked in customer service, knows how much of an unreasonable dickhead a vast majority of consumers can be. I have dealt with people that assume because they donate to the project, they can force their own personal fetishes/interests into it, and throw childish tantrums when I say 'No'.

Stress is also one of the main destroyers of products and innovation. Stress can force someone to adapt, yes, but it can often force them to adapt in the wrong direction. Instead of finding the best approach, they find the fastest and the easiest. They cut corners.

Yes, obviously, pressure is good to an extent to make certain people do their jobs. However, too much pressure, too much stress, breaks people. Why do you think v0.8 had internal problems which contributed to the restart? We have been living in a constant state of stress since v0.3, and it has only become worse. Where do you think that has gotten anyone?

WE DO NOT WORK ON THIS FOR THE MONEY. I would make far more money doing literally anything else. I would make more money on unemployment benefits (Showing how fucked society is) than working on this game. Yet you think pushing us, stressing us, bitching at us nonstop for the last 2+ years is going to solve all of our problems? That we'll magically find the solution to world hunger if you complain for the 50th time in a row? No, we're going to ignore you.

If you want to see this project work, if you want to see it succeed, then you should be proactive. If you don't want to donate, fine, there are other ways you can help. If you don't want to help, if you don't care about the project, or you dislike the project, then kindly stop complaining about it. It is that simple. Go somewhere else. Go anywhere else. I don't want you if all you are going to do is complain and poison the well.

You have a very naive vision to how this world functions and you clearly don't understand how competitive and proffessional environments work. I'm sure it comes from the right place, but your attitude is deleterious and will bring worse results in the end.

You also are extremely naive to believe that this is how the world works. You have a very 'muh free market' low-tier management view of economics. Competition is important, struggle is important, innovation is important, but what you are arguing for brings very little to the table.

This, is an art. Game development is mostly **art**, and art is not something you can squeeze out of a stone. Stress is great for forcing someone to do manual labor, to tell someone to dig ditches faster, I know, I've been there. I did manual labor for most of my life, and yelling at people to motivate them works, sure.

However you can yell at an artist all you want, you will not get a masterpiece, you will get garbage that keeps you from yelling. You have the mindset of EA games right now. Listen to yourself.

You are free to say your mind of course, but just from me - next time when you create such discussions, read it out loud first. And if you notice that you need to breathe in and out during your speech, make sure to put a dot somewhere in there. Otherwise it's really hard to read.

Why do you insult him and then tell him he is free to speak his mind? It is one thing to criticize his grammar, it is another entirely to respond to him in the manner that you did. It is as though you are attempting to use his language skills as a method of putting down his argument, of shaming him out of the thread. I find that distasteful.

 

[Phanatic]

I could say the same for your paragraphs. I was able to understand both of your arguments well enough. You're very rude to this person, along with the 3 other people that sit in this thread with nothing better to do but to disparage everyone that has any hope in this project.

I told him the truth. He needs to hear it from someone. Person straight up rants about his ideas, thinking that he is versed well enough to change people's minds. He isn't. Until someone tells him that, he will think that he makes change, when in reality he needs to understand that it's hard to even comprehend his writing.
It's rude, but he needs to hear that.

If he understands that his English is not perfect, that it's google translated or something, he would make himself a favour to phrase it shorter and on the points, without allegories or vague examples.

It is how a lot of the world works, actually.

No, it doesn't, because if you live in your personal bubble, nobody will care for you and nobody will support you.
You need to be communicative and open to changes, flexible. Nobody needs a stubborn boss who ignores modernity.

Socium brings you money, you don't print them yourself. You require connections and diplomacy to make friends, to make advertisement of your product. If you keep everything to yourself, you will either fail, or you will exist o nthe bottom of the barrel barely making enough to hang until the next day.

Pseudo-socialist viewpoint, confusing making profits with being a good person? Do you think Jeff Bezos is a good contributing member of society? Do you believe that he cares about your individual complaints? Do you think he would take the time to respond to someone like this? I question whether he even has a soul.

Ask me if Bobby Kotik is a good person. No he isn't. He is an abusive peace of shit.
Doesn't matter what viewpoint it is - it is true. If you make a profit of somethingg, but you ignore the well being and mindset of the resource that allows your existence, it makes you a damned leech.
You are not EA - you are an indie developer and unlike EA or other studios who have insanely intricate company infrastructure, you have the ability to be as open and honest to your consumers as you wish to be.
If you choose to ignore your community, your potential clients or other people who give you profit (any profit, may it be financial, morale or informational gain), you don't show yourself in the best of lights.

No, actually, it loses credibility because it becomes incessant whining. Do you listen to someone that complains about everything 24/7?

I don't have to because I make changes and learn on my mistakes. I'm also not the most stubborn person and if yo ucan get my mind changed with logic, I will change my mind as well. To that also I do have experience and it helps to not be stuck o nthe same spot for years which would've caused repeated information flow.
Even if I didn't do all that - yes, any critique that is being told that has foundation and reasoning is a valuable input. If it's being repeated, it means that this problem didn't go away and I need to fix this.
If you choose to ignore htat input, it's entirely on you as a developer. If you don't like it because you can't handle it - it's your problem, not people's.

As much as I despise monopolies and corporate shills, the consumer can most often be an entitled asshole. Anyone that has ever worked retail in their lives, or worked in customer service, knows how much of an unreasonable dickhead a vast majority of consumers can be. I have dealt with people that assume because they donate to the project, they can force their own personal fetishes/interests into it, and throw childish tantrums when I say 'No'.

Stress is also one of the main destroyers of products and innovation. Stress can force someone to adapt, yes, but it can often force them to adapt in the wrong direction. Instead of finding the best approach, they find the fastest and the easiest. They cut corners.

Yes, obviously, pressure is good to an extent to make certain people do their jobs. However, too much pressure, too much stress, breaks people. Why do you think v0.8 had internal problems which contributed to the restart? We have been living in a constant state of stress since v0.3, and it has only become worse. Where do you think that has gotten anyone?

WE DO NOT WORK ON THIS FOR THE MONEY. I would make far more money doing literally anything else. I would make more money on unemployment benefits (Showing how fucked society is) than working on this game. Yet you think pushing us, stressing us, bitching at us nonstop for the last 2+ years is going to solve all of our problems? That we'll magically find the solution to world hunger if you complain for the 50th time in a row? No, we're going to ignore you.

If you want to see this project work, if you want to see it succeed, then you should be proactive. If you don't want to donate, fine, there are other ways you can help. If you don't want to help, if you don't care about the project, or you dislike the project, then kindly stop complaining about it. It is that simple. Go somewhere else. Go anywhere else. I don't want you if all you are going to do is complain and poison the well.

So "If you don't like it, don't buy it". I think I've heard someone say that as well.
"You have two choices: either accept it or don’t buy the game. I’m fine with either." - you know who said that? EA's CCO, Patrick Söderlund, after Battlefield V's trailer. Ironic.
Instead of seeing your mistakes, and listening to people, you decide to dig trenches and just become offensive, without making any conclusions. You are as stubborn as you've always been.

I still want to see this project succed, but you and only you keep making this wish hard to maintain.

You also are extremely naive to believe that this is how the world works. You have a very 'muh free market' low-tier management view of economics. Competition is important, struggle is important, innovation is important, but what you are arguing for brings very little to the table.

This, is an art. Game development is mostly **art**, and art is not something you can squeeze out of a stone. Stress is great for forcing someone to do manual labor, to tell someone to dig ditches faster, I know, I've been there. I did manual labor for most of my life, and yelling at people to motivate them works, sure.

However you can yell at an artist all you want, you will not get a masterpiece, you will get garbage that keeps you from yelling. You have the mindset of EA games right now. Listen to yourself.

Tough shit, Sherlcok, the world IS TOUGH to live in. If you want something to be incompetitive and free to grab, then I have bad knews for you - it's not how it works!
I'm an artist, I literally do art every day and you are going to tell me what is art? You?
And you are going to tell me about how art it is?
Let's see, I managed 2d concepts, 2d illustartions, 3d modeling+texturing+rigging+animating, I managed game documentation and game design, I managed UI and level development, worked with UE4 and am studying Unity right now, I've learned 2d aniamtions and its principles, I wrote comics and am currently writing a book.
Plus I have a diploma in Programming becasue that had to be my initial work, which I decided to change for more artistic job.
Trust me when I say, that ART is far from being the MAJOR part of the game. For you and Kuja? Maybe, since you are a game designer and you need to be creative, but what about programmer? Modellers? Animators? Do you know how much un artistic choices and job there is to do in order to create a game? I think you don't.

Art is a big part of the game development, but is being built upon well-executed precise decisions and knowledge that is far from art. There is a lot of mundane work to be done to raise a game and not all of it is "fun and creative".

By telling an artist what to do, you may: increase the output of the team, manage the similar style of various features of the game, keep artist in check and even direct their thought process and ideas toward the correct path.
Artists cause insane influence on the projects but their fnatasy shoudl be held in check because unlike managers who deal with finances, artists don't understand that they might go overboard with things. Artists need to be managed, especially unexperienced ones.

If you are interested about this aspect and how true it is, I recommend you to watch anime called "Keep your hands off Eizouken!". It did a good job showing artist's uncontrollable desires to create great aniamtions, while being physically unable to achieve requried results in time. Thus she was controlled by a more "mercantile" person, who was able to keep the artclub on flow, without whom success would've been only a dream.

Why do you insult him and then tell him he is free to speak his mind? It is one thing to criticize his grammar, it is another entirely to respond to him in the manner that you did. It is as though you are attempting to use his language skills as a method of putting down his argument, of shaming him out of the thread. I find that distasteful.

You find a lot of things distastefull, which is ironic, because you do the same thing when you go back to the discord channel, where you swim in the same ideology of people who love to insult people from this site on the constant basis.

Technically he is free to speak his mind, I won't ever stop him. But depending on how he presents himself, he will get different reaction from readers. His previous answers lack formulation and knowledge of the English language, not grammar. It was hard to understand the idea he was trying to carry. It would've been better if he kept his ideas short and informative, but instead he decided to post an insane monologue with analogies and weird phrazes. He might didn't want to look over his head, but he came out very cocky to me, while being naive and poorly informed, which caused my reaction.
It's a very rare reaction coming from me though, but I guess he dealt a critical strike to me.

-

You haven't changed at all, Vlad. It's been a year, mistake after mistake and it seems that you've learned nothing. Your hubris and self-confidence didn't go anywhere. And these comments only show me how much of unexperienced manager you are.
You have good writing skills and I know that you work hard. I know that you can create really interesting world, races, story concepts, but your managing skills and your attitude are just horrible.

I really hoped that you would learn from your mistakes, that you would start listening to people, but it seems that you only have gotten deeper down your own little world.
It makes me sad for this project because of your leadership.
I hope that your team will be able to overcome your miscalculations with their skill, because they are insanely tallented people. All of them.

p.s. with all that said, I can be extremely wrong, of course. My train of thought comes from experience and studies, but nothing is written in stone.

 

[whatever4096]

I really hoped that you would learn from your mistakes, that you would start listening to people, but it seems that you only have gotten deeper down your own little world.

Start listening to people about what exactly? The reason the game is 2D now instead of 3D is because people complained. There are customization options now because people complained. Every change people want isn't going to be made, it's just not realistic. Most people also don't know what they want in a game. They think they do, but it ends up sucking if the devs try to make everyone happy.

 

[Phanatic]

Start listening to people about what exactly? The reason the game is 2D now instead of 3D is because people complained. There are customization options now because people complained. Every change people want isn't going to be made, it's just not realistic. Most people also don't know what they want in a game. They think they do, but it ends up sucking if the devs try to make everyone happy.

"Which is why we had Feet Wars and poll-ed decisions that are given to the discord members... We can't listen to everyone so we will make people choose and listen to... everyone anyway.
Let's also use various popular artists to council Kuja about anatomy. If he makes a mistake, we can always say that we consulted that one other popular artist, thus we are not responsible. Or we could even simply ignore them. Or we could use one of our discord artists who draws comics in MS Paint to brainwash other people and make constant excuses.
We were told and explained hundred times in the discord channel AND on other sites that 3d was a bad decision, by people who have experience and know a thing or two. But you know what? Fuck them! We are late already because we are waiting for our polls of what snake dick people want to see in the game. So let's ignore constructive criticism and just go with 3d anyway, even though our 3d artist has only started to learn Blender.
Let's also restart the game without reusing any assets, let's make our only artist to re-draw everything from the start, make it all way more complicated and more intricate, base the entire concept on gameplay that noone has ever done before and change our quality of production because now we have an entire game to make from 0 after people have waited 2 years for the game that we decided to end."

That's a great plan, Walter. That's fucking ingenious, if I understand it correctly. It's a Swiss fucking watch.​

 

[chopolander]

Start listening to people about what exactly? The reason the game is 2D now instead of 3D is because people complained. There are customization options now because people complained.

People already said to bring back 2D the moment it was shown how 3D was going to look, and that was long before the first demo came out. And regarding the design, it's not that there are customisation options, it's that it's no longer a Legend of Krystal if you remove Krystal.
I don't think I need to remember how long this thing was called Legend of Krystal Rebirth Remake before it was called LOK RE.

 

[Deleted member 3356960]

That is entirely a thing that will happen, yeah. We have triggers based on clothing (or lack thereof) in place. Though those events may be far between, clothing will definitely play an impact in a number of cases.



Well, to answer that, I'm going to have to delve into some spoilers for the plot:

Spoiler: Spoilers

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

View attachment 1216463

For the time being, these are the sentient races we have planned. We also plan for plenty of various creatures, dinosaurs, insects, tentacles, feral canines, etc.

There will also be mechs, and spirits.

Here are a couple of examples of creatures I have written to populate the world, (Spoilers):

Spoiler: Akliath

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Spoiler: Yothrag

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I appreciate your questions, and your kind words! Hopefully we can deliver something good ASAP.




You sought out negativity for the sake of negativity, that seems somewhat sad.



What new devs are you referring to? I was the writer of the first version. Kuja was the artist. The only person replaced was Abelius, the animator/programmer.



Unfortunately, we could not have done that due to internal reasons. We restarted the game for a reason, we didn't have the ability to strip it down or continue where we left off. I'm glad you thought it was good, hopefully we can make the new version better with time and effort. The first version took a long time, and was far simpler to make, by the by. The new version is taking longer yes, but it is mostly due to the higher complexity (That, and we spent a while struggling to find a working team/pipeline)



Well, it was either scrapping it or the project dying. We decided we loved it too much to let it die. There are a number of people on here that believe we just decided to restart the project on a whim, I'm afraid there was a good reason for it.

But if you would like to help us make the game far faster, then if you know some really good spine animators (which are quite rare) that can help Pikant animate, please let me know. I'm also tired of waiting, if it makes you feel better. Until then, it can't be helped. It's a difficult thing making a game.

If nothing else, you get massive props for a very PR friendly response to my diatribe.

When I said strip down, I meant like tear it apart at the seams. I understand that the game itself was fundamentally fucked, but that doesn't mean you couldn't start from scratch and potentially reuse some assets, even make it better than it was before. For example, in the original I felt like it took a bit too long to run everywhere. There were tons of tweaks that could have made it better, but the foundation of the gameplay loop was solid. Here's hoping your team can pull a rabbit out of their hat, I want a good LoK game as much as anyone; I've been an LoK consumer for probably 10 or more years now.

I just question the wisdom of taking a formula that clearly worked and starting over with something that doesn't resemble the original. That said, I haven't played the demo in some time, about to do that now. I appreciate your patience in putting up with shitlords like myself. Your calm stance gives me a little hope that you guys can actually make it work.

God speed, soldier.

 

[MightyAltroll]

If nothing else, you get massive props for a very PR friendly response to my diatribe.

You're not one of the regulars that hate on us nonstop, so this isn't really a PR move, it's just me talking to you like a normal person.

I don't do PR well, I'm not a PR person, I can't lie through my teeth to someone and blow smoke up their ass. But I try to be friendly, it doesn't cost anything to not be a dick, I feel.

When I said strip down, I meant like tear it apart at the seams. I understand that the game itself was fundamentally fucked, but that doesn't mean you couldn't start from scratch and potentially reuse some assets, even make it better than it was before.

We couldn't use the assets, that's the thing. Kuja was the artist, I was the writer, the assets went through Abelius. He did all of the animation, he did all of the programming.

So even if we wanted to fundamentally rip apart the game, the only thing we really had was Kuja's artwork. Admittedly, really good, but Kuja felt he had improved substantially since the old version, and he wanted to remake a lot of it from scratch. We also had tons of complaints/suggestions from our playerbase on how Kay should look.

For example, in the original I felt like it took a bit too long to run everywhere. There were tons of tweaks that could have made it better, but the foundation of the gameplay loop was solid.

Yes, wanting a proper sprint was a request for a long time, Abel had some trouble doing it as I remember. Part of what we wanted to do (Kuja and I) was to get a proper programmer that could make, you know, an actual game. Proper gameplay.

Which we have now. You can sprint, you can jump, you can climb. We will have RPG and platforming elements in the game. We even have character customization.

Here's hoping your team can pull a rabbit out of their hat, I want a good LoK game as much as anyone; I've been an LoK consumer for probably 10 or more years now.

Same.

I just question the wisdom of taking a formula that clearly worked and starting over with something that doesn't resemble the original. That said, I haven't played the demo in some time, about to do that now.

It will resemble the original, though. That's the problem, is we need to remake what was made before, yes, it sucks that we have to do that, but we can make it better. People constantly complained about the original being a walking simulator.

I appreciate your patience in putting up with shitlords like myself. Your calm stance gives me a little hope that you guys can actually make it work.

Well, truth be told some times I just think "Is this even worth working on anymore?", only thing that keeps me going is my love for the project and not wanting to disappoint people who put trust in us. Getting slammed constantly by people that don't know the full story, or have ridiculous expectations of us, it is painful.

I'm also not perfect, none of us are. We had to learn so much for this game, and I've made my share of mistakes. I often wonder "Would this have been better if I did this" and it's quite a poisonous train of thought to have, because it makes me second guess everything I do.

Anyway, if you want to talk to me further about the project, or if you have ideas or constructive criticism, my DMs on the discord are always open.

God speed, soldier.

Thanks! I hope to make something people can enjoy.

 

[whatever4096]

People constantly complained about the original being a walking simulator.

It really was. It had some nice animations and that's pretty much all it had. I'm not getting why people were so fond of it. It may as well have been an animation gallery like so many garbage DLsite games as far as gameplay was concerned.

 

[Deleted member 3356960]

You're not one of the regulars that hate on us nonstop, so this isn't really a PR move, it's just me talking to you like a normal person.

I don't do PR well, I'm not a PR person, I can't lie through my teeth to someone and blow smoke up their ass. But I try to be friendly, it doesn't cost anything to not be a dick, I feel.



We couldn't use the assets, that's the thing. Kuja was the artist, I was the writer, the assets went through Abelius. He did all of the animation, he did all of the programming.

So even if we wanted to fundamentally rip apart the game, the only thing we really had was Kuja's artwork. Admittedly, really good, but Kuja felt he had improved substantially since the old version, and he wanted to remake a lot of it from scratch. We also had tons of complaints/suggestions from our playerbase on how Kay should look.



Yes, wanting a proper sprint was a request for a long time, Abel had some trouble doing it as I remember. Part of what we wanted to do (Kuja and I) was to get a proper programmer that could make, you know, an actual game. Proper gameplay.

Which we have now. You can sprint, you can jump, you can climb. We will have RPG and platforming elements in the game. We even have character customization.



Same.



It will resemble the original, though. That's the problem, is we need to remake what was made before, yes, it sucks that we have to do that, but we can make it better. People constantly complained about the original being a walking simulator.



Well, truth be told some times I just think "Is this even worth working on anymore?", only thing that keeps me going is my love for the project and not wanting to disappoint people who put trust in us. Getting slammed constantly by people that don't know the full story, or have ridiculous expectations of us, it is painful.

I'm also not perfect, none of us are. We had to learn so much for this game, and I've made my share of mistakes. I often wonder "Would this have been better if I did this" and it's quite a poisonous train of thought to have, because it makes me second guess everything I do.

Anyway, if you want to talk to me further about the project, or if you have ideas or constructive criticism, my DMs on the discord are always open.



Thanks! I hope to make something people can enjoy.

I've written a review to reflect my thoughts on the game. I was surprised, and it goes to show that opinions ought to be flexible. I did run into a bug that made me have to exit, but I wasn't frustrated with that, more impressed with how well it's coming along. The first alpha tech demo was not impressive to me, but you guys really have done a better job than I'd expected.

I'm sorry I was so harsh in my initial assessment (which was only based on the very first tech demo I played like, last year I guess?). I'm considering becoming a patron, when I've got some money freed up.

I'll bug you in the discord sometime if I have any ideas, or anything to report.

 

[MightyAltroll]

I did run into a bug that made me have to exit

What was the bug? We may have fixed it already for the next version.

I'll bug you in the discord sometime if I have any ideas, or anything to report.

Please do, and thanks for the feedback.

 

[Grandy_UiD]

I am completely lost. What are you supposed to do? I've walked from one end of the map to the another, like, five times but cannot find thid chieftain guy.

 

[MightyAltroll]

I am completely lost. What are you supposed to do? I've walked from one end of the map to the another, like, five times but cannot find thid chieftain guy.

He's not in yet, but he's completed and ready for the next version, along with most of the village.

 

[Deleted member 3356960]

Damn, it's been almost two years already, since "the event..."

And not a single change. The freakingly long essays, the self-serving theories, the plain lies, and damage control PR... it's all alive and well.

But you know? It's okay.

After the second time I suffered the consequences of taking for granted Kuja had any measure of ethical behavior or empathy for someone he called "a friend", and basically made me, a father of two, lose yet another year of work over his whims, I finally understood I needed to take the exit for good.

But when I come here, as a lurker, and see the essays, the never-ending arguments, and the same "reasons" repeated all over again after... lol... 24 freaking months since you started to conspire to take over the project, you know what I feel...?

Amusement.

At how you're still convinced my project needed something so radical as a reboot.

At how 2000+ people on Patreon seemed to not have any problem at all.

At how people forgot about me in a heartbeat. Because animation, programming, script writing, game design, and the other small roles I filled in were NOTHING compared to drawing.

At how you were completely convinced of calling "professionals" the extremely young undergraduates you hired to replace my multiple roles.

At how you reverted design decisions I argued against on day one, made by one of those "professionals". Obviously. I was the guy that "failed" in making a good game, right?

At how that "professional" jumped ship when his "professional reputation" was at stake (sorry, didn't you know you were making porn?).

At how you fool yourself thinking your initial character concepts and one-liner dialogues made you the main writer for the previous project.

At how you are basically riding on the success of my work, but still appropriated it because the previous game is still on Patreon "just in case someone wants to play that inferior version", but it's okay because you and Kuja were part of it, right...?

At how the previous thread has more reviews and stars than this one, even when people started giving it one-star reviews when you took over.

At how I made a demo and eight versions in the same time you took to do... sorry, what have you done yet?

At how your reasoning for that lack of content is "Yeah, but we have eight angles of motion and a prettier UI".

At how, ironically, I probably won't have the same success when I launch my game, and I'll need to return to a "normal" job to feed my family, while you're living your dream of making an eternal WIP AAA RPG with some porn.

And best of all: at how you are completely convinced you're "the good guys" of this story. Nothing like validating isolation in #the_council, uh? xD

Yeah, amusement. I know it sounds like I'm still mad, but you should see the smirk on my face.

Because all this stuff is mental. A two year long show of truth-bending gymnastics, so surreal that I don't want to fight it anymore. Not even inside my head.

So, just thinking, Vlad, that you've forced upon yourself this burden of trying to justify your poor progress on an uphill battle YOU chose yourself to fight in the first place... I pity you. Seriously.

And me? I was naive. I was betrayed. Two times. End of the story. Nice lesson to learn even though I'm old enough to have known better.

This was just to say my final piece, now that I'm truly free from you guys, and go on with my life.

Now you can write your own essay dismounting every single line of mine. I'm sure you will, having the eternity at your disposal. Not my case.

Lmfao the drama just doesn't end, does it? This shit needs a youtube summary video because there's so much drama I can't keep track of it all.

 

[dragonsix6969]

.

I would like to you return to previous krystal, at least to the usual animation without history, as in the demo LoK Anim Lab, it's a pity that this fell into the wrong hands.

 

[chopolander]

After reading what Abelius has posted, I feel a need to... to rub a lot of things in... but I'll keep them to myself because then they'll tell me I'm not right and that I'm unpleasant, as usual.

I'll just say what I said on the first day... "keep on letting take the piss out of you... and the money"

 

[MyLittleTrolly]

Lmfao the drama just doesn't end, does it? This shit needs a youtube summary video because there's so much drama I can't keep track of it all.

Well,

Abelius is a person, who did about 70-80% of all work of the abandoned version of the game in this thread, so in fact - his revelation is what many have been waiting for a long time ago.

But, even though he is largely right in his post, still - the current version of the game project also has a huge potential. Yes, the development takes a long time, and it is clear that the developers are far from being the professionals they are trying to show themselves (Expect Kuja, he is a great artist, and already proved it long time ago) - the game can still have a good future, the main thing for current developers is not to give up.

And I understand that many haters of the current project have well-founded reasons to be disappointed (many of them did donate in past, and liked the older version) - they need to move on, and most importantly, be able to forgive.

The project is clearly not a scam. Yes, the developers have made many mistakes, but they continue to work. Whether to donate to them or not is the choice of purely everyone. Yes, in the end - their work can be discouraging, but this is life, and this happens in life.

What about Abelius - I hope - he is doing well, and maybe one day - he will find the opportunity to create something of his own that will gain decent popularity.