VN Ren'Py Abandoned Love and Submission [v0.08] [veqvil]

[jdk22]

Just do your thing. Nobody will like all the content. We are all different people with different taste. Just keep things optional and dont force the player into situations they dont see coming without choises to move where we want to. If you let the player have control over the character and feel like they have freedom them 99% will be happy. People are not really afraid for the content, but afraid for being forced into situation they didnt want to be in. Most games tend to be linear, so content existing tend to mean you will run into it, and thats what they dont want to do. Sure there will always be some crusaders that will have opinion on what should be able to be in a game no matter if they will see it or even play the game, but if we would listen to all of them they would just remove the entire game. Just see how patron started acting.

Agreed.

 

[n0b0dy]

And if one person doesn't have such fantasy, we also have the driver named "love", something more powerful than those supernatural hypnotic abilities in the hand of a manipulative genius XD

Do not underestimate the power of a manipulative genius :evilsmile:

Well for the long run though I need to maintain a working savegame system, I mean I don't want to force all the players to replay beating up Duke into pieces. (JK maybe?)

That or you'll have to make your game so good people won't mind replaying it every month.

Well, I want it to be a little more immersive and seeing the same character always with the same outfit, is a bad thing for me. It's not like a symbolic battle gear or something, so why have the same stuff everyday XD

Women who wear the same clothes everyday are gross and I would not touch them with a ten feet long stick. Also why miss out on the opportunity to show the woman being different kinds of gorgeous in different outfits? :heartcoveredeyes:

Not sure about rape as the genre, not my thing tbh

Nooo, you can't do that us veq, you can't treat us like that. Are we in a abusive relationship or something? I understand you have a developer-teasing fetish and we let you tease us all you wan't because we assume you will deliver and trust your judgement but now you are pushing it too far. First you fill our hearts with joy by suggesting there will be sweet delicious protagonist organized rape and then the next day you rip out those very same hearts with your bare hands. There are lines on what you can and cannot do to us dude. Maybe you see us as your little toys and you think it's okay to just toy with our feelings like that and push us into despair but we are real humans with real feelings and we don't deserve this kind of treatment. Show us some love and compassion please. *Starts lying in fetus-position and crying uncontrollably.*

 

[Goblin Baily: DILF]

Do not underestimate the power of a manipulative genius :evilsmile:
Nooo, you can't do that us veq, you can't treat us like that. Are we in a abusive relationship or something? I understand you have a developer-teasing fetish and we let you tease us all you wan't because we assume you will deliver and trust your judgement but now you are pushing it too far. First you fill our hearts with joy by suggesting there will be sweet delicious protagonist organized rape and then the next day you rip out those very same hearts with your bare hands. There are lines on what you can and cannot do to us dude. Maybe you see us as your little toys and you think it's okay to just toy with our feelings like that and push us into despair but we are real humans with real feelings and we don't deserve this kind of treatment. Show us some love and compassion please. *Starts lying in fetus-position and crying uncontrollably.*

what if there's an attempted and staged rape, the girls get their cloths thorn and then the MC saves them to make them more dependant of him?

 

[Aprilsun]

what if there's an attempted and staged rape, the girls get their cloths thorn and then the MC saves them to make them more dependant of him?

Lure Duke over just to kick his ass and get brownie points with the ladies?, I have to say i like it!

 

[n0b0dy]

what if there's an attempted and staged rape, the girls get their cloths thorn and then the MC saves them to make them more dependant of him?

I like your way of thinking although personally I would like it better if they would really get raped (since I have rape fetish). The trauma of getting really raped would also cause a lot of sadness and pain in the woman which I really enjoy to see and I love the thought of you pretending to be "prince charming" who will "support the girl & nurture her to health" while in fact being the monster who caused the raping is just the icing on the cake.

But I understand not everybody likes this kind of thing and if Veqvil does not want real rape in his game your idea is one of the best alternatives.

 

[Goblin Baily: DILF]

@n0b0dy real rape would be too dangerous in this case; the girls are alreay insecure, what if they get broken?
it's not like RapeLay where the MC has time to work on the women

 

[n0b0dy]

@n0b0dy real rape would be too dangerous in this case; the girls are alreay insecure, what if they get broken?
it's not like RapeLay where the MC has time to work on the women

Not sure what you mean with broken. If you mean broken like in "mindbreak" where the girl becomes a soulless puppet after the raping I agree that can become boring fast but if you mean broken like in "severely traumatized till the extend the girl can't function anymore in a healthy way" that is a good thing IMO. In these game I like the sight of a woman struggle with herself and with the world, it gives me great pleasure and for me "damaging" the women in these kind of games and seeing the results of that is where I get the most fun out of.

You know I have seen the whole "lovey dovey" things in these kind of games and it gets boring real fast, especially since most developers are not capable of portraying a believable chemistry between the MC and the girls. The portrayal of human struggle in all sort of ways is something I however will always enjoy and is just far more interesting and rewarding (for me) than all that "girl falls in unconditional love with the MC" crap you see way too often. A good story always has some basis of conflict and I think a good adult game should have this too. If you write a story where everybody is happy all the time it is probably not a very good one.

 

[Shardoom]

If a writer isn't into the thing he's writing about it won't turn out very well.
Veqvil already stated Rape isn't his 'thing' so...

 

[n0b0dy]

If a writer isn't into the thing he's writing about it won't turn out very well.
Veqvil already stated Rape isn't his 'thing' so...

Yeah I am just stating my point of view on the matter, of course veqvil should make the game the way he wants which means probably no rape but hey at least @veqvil has stated we will be able to abuse and manipulate the girls in some sort of ways even though it is not to the extend I would like to see :relievedface:

 

[Tony_Stark]

@n0b0dy Idk, but this sounds like rape "change the chat messages from a girl to "Leave me alone generic black dude" into "Fuck me at my house, btw I act like I don't want it" ". Yes, i know this is just example

 

[n0b0dy]

@n0b0dy Idk, but this sounds like rape "change the chat messages from a girl to "Leave me alone generic black dude" into "Fuck me at my house, btw I act like I don't want it" ". Yes, i know this is just example

It would definitely be rape if it would happen like that but veqvil stated in post #1674 that was not the best example since Veqvil has not (been blessed with) the rape fetish himself and therefore is "not sure about rape as a genre". So it is doubtful something like the example he gave will actually appear in the game.

 

[Tony_Stark]

@n0b0dy yes, but anyway...

 

[ShadowManNor]

It would definitely be rape if it would happen like that but veqvil stated in post #1674 that was not the best example since Veqvil has not (been blessed with) the rape fetish himself and therefore is "not sure about rape as a genre". So it is doubtful something like the example he gave will actually appear in the game.

Will be interesting to see where that goes, as rape tend to be part of several fetishes that people dont consider rape (as I have talked about earlier). Blackmail would be rape, as you are threatening the other party. Veqvil talked of rape and said it didnt internt him as it was just a sexual act that didnt really do anything else (unless there would be a prison path) and that he wanted to have relationship and dynamics between the MC and NPCs. Now blackmail (unless I am remembering wrong, I could be) have been confirmed. So there are gray areas here. It will all depend upon what @veqvil wants to do and what he feels serve the characters and interactions.

 

[n0b0dy]

Will be interesting to see where that goes, as rape tend to be part of several fetishes that people dont consider rape (as I have talked about earlier). Blackmail would be rape, as you are threatening the other party. Veqvil talked of rape and said it didnt internt him as it was just a sexual act that didnt really do anything else (unless there would be a prison path) and that he wanted to have relationship and dynamics between the MC and NPCs. Now blackmail (unless I am remembering wrong, I could be) have been confirmed. So there are gray areas here. It will all depend upon what @veqvil wants to do and what he feels serve the characters and interactions.

Yeah, it is not completely clear to me when veqvil speaks about disliking rape he means all forms of rape or only the violent kind. I guess in that way rape is a bit similar to "the word that won't be spoken of" since people don't always mean the same thing when they use it. It's very confusing :idontcare:
Let us from TTDS hope there will be rape in the game in some form, no matter if it is through force, blackmail or some kind of trickery. I would even settle for some consensual rape-roleplaying

 

[wep]

Will be interesting to see where that goes, as rape tend to be part of several fetishes that people dont consider rape (as I have talked about earlier). Blackmail would be rape, as you are threatening the other party. Veqvil talked of rape and said it didnt internt him as it was just a sexual act that didnt really do anything else (unless there would be a prison path) and that he wanted to have relationship and dynamics between the MC and NPCs. Now blackmail (unless I am remembering wrong, I could be) have been confirmed. So there are gray areas here. It will all depend upon what @veqvil wants to do and what he feels serve the characters and interactions.

Yep, usually here rape = sex obtained by physical violence (no magic, mind control, drugs and blackmail).
Obviously in real life it is different.

 

[ShadowManNor]

Yeah, it is not completely clear to me when veqvil speaks about disliking rape he means all forms of rape or only the violent kind. I guess in that way rape is a bit similar to "the word that won't be spoken of" since people don't always mean the same thing when they use it. It's very confusing :idontcare:
Let us from TTDS hope there will be rape in the game in some form, no matter if it is through force, blackmail or some kind of trickery. I would even settle for some consensual rape-roleplaying

Yep, usually here rape = sex obtained by physical violence (no magic, mind control, drugs and blackmail).
Obviously in real life it is different.

Yeah, its many different layers. I got the impression that veq felt that physical rape where boring narrative wise as it let you cheat though building a relationship (good or bad) and would only end up with you being sent to jail, aka a game over state, which dosnt fit the game, which I agree. If you just want to jump the girls in the game, a flash clicker would probably be better for that kind of gameplay. Now I would argue you still could build up a relationship based on fear, and that after you could blackmail or be blackmailed by the victim to make it interesting. Thats how I felt by veqvils example as well, sure there is rapy sex you can watch with the cameras you put up, but the interesting part is more how you play it and where it goes from there. Do you try and save her as a hero, or take advantage of her broken state. Do you use the material to blackmail both of them. Or do you use it as a way to get rid of (lets assume it was Duke) by sending it to the police. These things are to me way more interesting that the sex part and make it more than just push button to hold someone down for sex. It create new storylines, affect the other ones and puts the characters in different situations.

 

[veqvil]

@veqvil just make the content that you want to make and hope for the best. You're never going to appease everyone and if you keep adding something that you have no interest in it shows when people play the game. You have an idea where you want to take the game and you should stick with it. I'm sure plenty of us will play the game regardless. Now back to work sir.

Yes, I absolutely agree, that's also the reason I won't add anything I don't like to this game. I mean I wouldn't do the fans justice with my crappy interpretation of something I don't understand or like

Its the interactions that will be exciting, whether it is direct or hidden, its many flavors it can be done in. It can be specifically sexual, just seductively or just based upon normal tings. Done to build a relationship or to break it down and take control of the person. There are more inspiration to find for power play than what is healthy.

Looks like this topic triggers your writing skills . Awesome, well we will see how things will be shown in LaS, but before that, we will have plenty of talk sessions once I get a microphone and discord running

We will just have to start using actual spoiler tags. We have been spoiled with 0.3 out for so long that everybody knows everything and there not really being anything to spoil. But as we venture down the different paths we will have to keep the secrets hidden. That should help dodge the content you dont want to see as well.

Agree, also the game is going to be big, so definitely tons of surprises that could be spoiled by someone who hasn't played e.g. the tech route.

Just do your thing. Nobody will like all the content. We are all different people with different taste. Just keep things optional and dont force the player into situations they dont see coming without choises to move where we want to. If you let the player have control over the character and feel like they have freedom them 99% will be happy. People are not really afraid for the content, but afraid for being forced into situation they didnt want to be in. Most games tend to be linear, so content existing tend to mean you will run into it, and thats what they dont want to do. Sure there will always be some crusaders that will have opinion on what should be able to be in a game no matter if they will see it or even play the game, but if we would listen to all of them they would just remove the entire game. Just see how patron started acting.

Speaking of, congrats on reaching a hundred. First of many milestones.

While I'm aware of it it still makes me sort of unsatisfied xD

Also, thank you! Can't believe I made it to the 100... YEAAH!

Nooo, you can't do that us veq, you can't treat us like that. Are we in a abusive relationship or something? I understand you have a developer-teasing fetish and we let you tease us all you wan't because we assume you will deliver and trust your judgement but now you are pushing it too far. First you fill our hearts with joy by suggesting there will be sweet delicious protagonist organized rape and then the next day you rip out those very same hearts with your bare hands. There are lines on what you can and cannot do to us dude. Maybe you see us as your little toys and you think it's okay to just toy with our feelings like that and push us into despair but we are real humans with real feelings and we don't deserve this kind of treatment. Show us some love and compassion please. *Starts lying in fetus-position and crying uncontrollably.*

I'm not done, I will actually implement it, and shortly before showdown I will blend in kappa and stop the game xD

what if there's an attempted and staged rape, the girls get their cloths thorn and then the MC saves them to make them more dependant of him?

Luring heh? Added to my interesting list you genius

Will be interesting to see where that goes, as rape tend to be part of several fetishes that people dont consider rape (as I have talked about earlier). Blackmail would be rape, as you are threatening the other party. Veqvil talked of rape and said it didnt internt him as it was just a sexual act that didnt really do anything else (unless there would be a prison path) and that he wanted to have relationship and dynamics between the MC and NPCs. Now blackmail (unless I am remembering wrong, I could be) have been confirmed. So there are gray areas here. It will all depend upon what @veqvil wants to do and what he feels serve the characters and interactions.

Well, even the definition of rape is a little off here in the forums xD. By that, I mean the "dumb" way of getting sex. Now everything that has some nice relationship based thing e.g. blackmailing is way more interesting IMO. Strictly speaking, the submission path would be rape as well.

Yeah, it is not completely clear to me when veqvil speaks about disliking rape he means all forms of rape or only the violent kind. I guess in that way rape is a bit similar to "the word that won't be spoken of" since people don't always mean the same thing when they use it. It's very confusing :idontcare:
Let us from TTDS hope there will be rape in the game in some form, no matter if it is through force, blackmail or some kind of trickery. I would even settle for some consensual rape-roleplaying

Yep, usually here rape = sex obtained by physical violence (no magic, mind control, drugs and blackmail).
Obviously in real life it is different.

You both hit the nail on the head, I haven't thought out that much in what range I would use the term rape here. Now if it's just running up to a girl and overpower her, it's not my thing. But everything that requires a build up (Yeah I love to build things xD) is interesting IMO.

 

[n0b0dy]

Well, even the definition of rape is a little off here in the forums XD. By that, I mean the "dumb" way of getting sex. Now everything that has some nice relationship based thing e.g. blackmailing is way more interesting IMO. Strictly speaking, the submission path would be rape as well.

I would say the example you gave with the MC manipulating the communication between one of the girls and another dude to get her to be raped was not dumb at all and opens up a lot of interesting possibilities for story-telling. Does that mean there is a slight chance something like that will appear in the game or should I give up all hope something like that will happen?

You both hit the nail on the head, I haven't thought out that much in what range I would use the term rape here. Now if it's just running up to a girl and overpower her, it's not my thing. But everything that requires a build up (Yeah I love to build things XD) is interesting IMO.

Heh, you had me worried for a sec with your "no rape" comment. I'm glad you think (non-violent) rape can be interesting from a story-telling perspective because I feel that way too (in case you had not picked up on my subtle hints here about that) :happyblush

Yeah, its many different layers. I got the impression that veq felt that physical rape where boring narrative wise as it let you cheat though building a relationship (good or bad) and would only end up with you being sent to jail, aka a game over state, which dosnt fit the game, which I agree. If you just want to jump the girls in the game, a flash clicker would probably be better for that kind of gameplay. Now I would argue you still could build up a relationship based on fear, and that after you could blackmail or be blackmailed by the victim to make it interesting. Thats how I felt by veqvils example as well, sure there is rapy sex you can watch with the cameras you put up, but the interesting part is more how you play it and where it goes from there. Do you try and save her as a hero, or take advantage of her broken state. Do you use the material to blackmail both of them. Or do you use it as a way to get rid of (lets assume it was Duke) by sending it to the police. These things are to me way more interesting that the sex part and make it more than just push button to hold someone down for sex. It create new storylines, affect the other ones and puts the characters in different situations.

Man, I love the way you think. Can't veqvil hire you as a writer for the game? :closedeyesmile:

 

[Goblin Baily: DILF]

We also have Jason as an asset in the manipulation, say we manipulate the girls into total dependance from the MC, the mc tells them they lack skills... Jason could be their training dummy

 

[ShadowManNor]

Looks like this topic triggers your writing skills . Awesome, well we will see how things will be shown in LaS, but before that, we will have plenty of talk sessions once I get a microphone and discord running

It does, many things in this game do that, but as someone who have had several M/s relationships I take a great interest in how bdsm relationships are portrayed, both to enjoy something thats closer to my world but also since most of any media depiction of such relationships tend to miss the point of what its about or make it into something different. I would blame 50 shades of gray for this, but it was just the same before those books grew into popularity. So I am sure I will have some things to share in the talking sessions.

While I'm aware of it it still makes me sort of unsatisfied XD

Also, thank you! Can't believe I made it to the 100... YEAAH!

I think it will be easier when the game showes more what it will be. When people realize they dont have to have things they dont are into alluded to or feel that its pushing them out of the game, but rather see it as this weird alternative universe that they only know about since they looked at walkthough, then they will know it will not intrude upon them.
Just 900 more to go.

Well, even the definition of rape is a little off here in the forums XD. By that, I mean the "dumb" way of getting sex. Now everything that has some nice relationship based thing e.g. blackmailing is way more interesting IMO. Strictly speaking, the submission path would be rape as well.

Yeah, the sex is not fun if its just the sex. (I'll just

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, no reason to repet myself to much).
What do you mean by the submission path would be rape as well? That all the submission parts would have blackmail and such or that willing submission only happens in the "love" routes (Im not sure if the love vs submission routes are a fair way to categorize things Im just saying it since its the two forms of points we know from the walkthough)?

Man, I love the way you think. Can't veqvil hire you as a writer for the game? :closedeyesmile:

Thank you for those warm words. I am glad somebody is appreciating my mind.