VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[CrysusPariah2]

And here I thought I could go to sleep peacefully....



Ok so, the whole JD is is a shitty thing overall, first of all it is portrayed as a trade, and what Mc gets is utter crap compared to the extent the JD could go on for (and lacey even gets super jealous ruining what was salvageable, but overall everyone except Anna has a shitty behaviour during KW anyway).

She pleads him to take her away because she is turned on and wants to fuck MC, she wants to be satisfied, the Mc goes full cuck for narrative reasons and makes her kiss the Morty.
If you are arguing that she was barely in control, or that kissing the guy even if MC told her to was wrong, you would be right on both accounts, gllad that the author recognized that the kiss was pretty bad.



My man what is it with you and the names??
We will end up calling him Jafar next!



She avoids him because she feels guilty as fuck for lying to him, it is not a strong clue imo.
Probably she fears getting caught too.

I think the alcoholic part has been...sidelined by the author, we know she drank since morning in college but then she seems in total control when they have nights out, let's chalk it up as a full recovery or whatever.
I mean in the end it is inconsequential for the story, she is allready fighting an addiction anyway and that can be used for the narrative.

Personally, I would have kept Lacey sober (as ex alcoholics have to be), so that when she needs to drink in the bastion event it does actually mean something.



You are missing a crucial part in your turned on part, MC was not there nor was involved in her head.
In both JD and Bastion, Lacey needs and wants MC interaction, and it is underlined in the slut path (you know the material and it is late so please don't make me go quote hunt).

Imo, because I don't have proof in the material, quite the opposite, she started to actually doubt the job existed while the whole thing was going on but didn't want to admit it to herself.

Evan should not have been there as you said.



The turned on Lacey wasn't there, you are considering the jealousy turn on, which was not there, she wants to be seen by MC.
If MC doesn't know he cannot be jealous, hence she cannot drip get turned on at that level.

Although, and we don't have clear proof in the material, I will die on the hill of Lacey being groped here and there by Jared, probably not the others as they didn't bring a benefit to her.

Lacey denies it however.

MC "Were you ever intimate with him?"
L "(sigh)"
L "He brushed his hand on the side of my breast in the supply closet just as you said he did."
L "He touched my thigh in the hot tub, just as you said he did."
L "Then last night he.... he grabbed my breasts when I went into the women's restroom."
L "I did not invite him in nor give him any sign that what he did was okay."
L "He was very forceful and I was scared."
L "He told me that he would tell you that he and I had sex if I didn't 'loosen up'."
L "He grabbed them and started rubbing them."
L "For just a moment I was so stunned that I couldn't move."
L "Then he started lowering one hand to..."
L "I turned around and slapped him as hard as I possibly could."

BUT the hot tub scene was too natural, she didn't complain, she didn't move, she didn't look uncomfortable.
Again if this is a "maximum shock value" attempt, fine, but as usual it does put a lot of shade on her words.

I will reiterate, how the fuck is she shocked? She has been used forcefully for years, even when sober, why the fuck is she portrayed as a innocent virgin? (maybe it is too much, but as a normal person?)
Where is this "I have done it all" Lacey? The one we see completely unfazed in the locker room with Evan? (I know she wasn't unfazed completely, but she was more collected than many would).

As a side note, do you see how she omits that every time Jafar helped her on the ladder he was holding her by the butt?



With Will I kind of believe the groping didn't happen, Erika is too lax about it.

ER "You danced with that married girl a couple times, but you didn't bother to dance with me even once."

I know it doesn't mean much since they might be used to it, but at that point in time Lacey was already on the redemption path, which kinda starts at the bathroom scene where she gets angry with MC (first real sign).

So to summarize, I would concede that probably Jafar touched Lacey more than once, as he was used to hold her by the butt, the hot tub scene was too natural etc.

For fucking? nah.
Fucking other dudes from which she has nothing to gain? naaaaah.



I tried to understand what the other side was, going back and forth in the story, I don't think we have enough elements.

We can almost safely exclude that it is sexual, she was without Mc for 2 years before getting hired by the pimp and she didn't have any sexual contact, not only that, but the pimp had to almost force her in her first steps.

It will be probably related to self hate and self destruction? or something related to being mean like her parents were? (I think this is AL.d theory)

Hmmmm, knowing how Lacey lies: "I never had a single boyfriend in college" your "gluck gluck" theory (wtf is that name Crysus? ) could hold water since she denies it like this:

L "I swear to you on my unending love that I have never been with another man during our marriage."

And never been with another man could mean intercourse, but it is a stretch, also because:

L "He brushed his hand on the side of my breast in the supply closet just as you said he did."
L "He touched my thigh in the hot tub, just as you said he did."
L "Then last night he.... he grabbed my breasts when I went into the women's restroom."

Even then, I still believe she got more than one inappropriate touch she was too drunk to remember or conveniently missed in her recap.
I mean she tries to hide stuff up until the Isaac event in act 1, so as much as I would like to defend what she says as the truth, sometimes I do not have a leg to stand on.

Not that I am saying it happened, because we have enough statements contradicting it as well as need a better explanation for Jared's obsession if he partially succeded, but that quote you provided made my think of the usual Lacey gaslighting.

MC "Were you ever intimate with him?"
L "(sigh)"
L "He brushed his hand on the side of my breast in the supply closet just as you said he did."
L "He touched my thigh in the hot tub, just as you said he did."
L "Then last night he.... he grabbed my breasts when I went into the women's restroom."
L "I did not invite him in nor give him any sign that what he did was okay."
L "He was very forceful and I was scared."
L "He told me that he would tell you that he and I had sex if I didn't 'loosen up'."
L "He grabbed them and started rubbing them."
L "For just a moment I was so stunned that I couldn't move."
L "Then he started lowering one hand to..."
L "I turned around and slapped him as hard as I possibly could."

Specifically the highlighted line. She doesn't state Jared would be lying. She doesn't even give a direct negative response to MCs initial question, just and abbreviated, matter of fact run-down of (some of) the interactions with Jared.
If one should go full tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist, you could think she told MC without actually telling him, or at the very lied by omission again

 

[Lady Lydia]

You know, all this talk reminds me why I had been thinking the Dev should potentially considering remaking the game and find a way to fix the narrative and characters, because of how in particular Lacey can be very incoherent as a character, to the point of it being very annoying and confusing. The Dev doesn't seem to be able to figure if they want us to hate Lacey or love her, and if the goal is for us to love her, maybe her character and background need to be cleaned up in a way to make her far less seemingly a constant betrayer, plus strip away her plot armor that allow her to seemingly get away with all of it continually.

Now on the subject of therapy and Lacey saying everything to her therapy so we know the truth of things... bwahahaha you think people tell everything to their therapists? No. Even if counter productive people will lie to their therapists even if said therapists are impartial and cannot share anything you tell them, because people hate being judged, even if its unsaid, so even if Lacey is having therapy you can't expect everything to come out. Plus people like Lacey and the like will try to generate a sort of confirmation bias, so say things in a way to generate support for their decisions / actions.

No if you want to know everything, the only way is flashbacks, seeing everything from what amount to her view, or even third party 'God' view would be for the best. Doing so at the end of the game so it cannot influence the decision making and be a shock to the players to see how things truly turn out and cause players to actively respond to events that happen would be the likely way to do, obviously after that a number of players would start again and depending on how bad things were try to sabotage some relationships by making decisions against them. But again if something like that were to happen I'd expect it at the end, so we are nowhere near seeing that sort of final revelation.

 

[Maviarab]

The Dev doesn't seem to be able to figure if they want us to hate Lacey or love her, and if the goal is for us to love her, maybe her character and background need to be cleaned up in a way to make her far less seemingly a constant betrayer, plus strip away her plot armor that allow her to seemingly get away with all of it continually.

I think this is something we all agree with. Not particularly a rewrite...but she is all over the place..uses flimsy excuses and yes, is hypocritical in how she acts from one day to the next...some cleaning up would be better. But then, it all could be completely intentional....

Now on the subject of therapy and Lacey saying everything to her therapy so we know the truth of things

I just want to know if therapy itself is real/true...I couldn't care less what she says in it lmao. You're most likely aware of my thoughts on whether there is or not.

Doing so at the end of the game so it cannot influence the decision making

I actually quite like this...however, the problem here is, unless it's majorly shocking...why even bother with that at all? So sure, very first time it could provide some serious wtf reactions....but as you say, for every new save...you'd makie those saves accordingly. It's a nice idea though for sure, just impractical think.

 

[Lady Lydia]

I think this is something we all agree with. Not particularly a rewrite...but she is all over the place..uses flimsy excuses and yes, is hypocritical in how she acts from one day to the next...some cleaning up would be better. But then, it all could be completely intentional....

I just want to know if therapy itself is real/true...I couldn't care less what she says in it lmao. You're most likely aware of my thoughts on whether there is or not.

I actually quite like this...however, the problem here is, unless it's majorly shocking...why even bother with that at all? So sure, very first time it could provide some serious wtf reactions....but as you say, for every new save...you'd makie those saves accordingly. It's a nice idea though for sure, just impractical think.

Well we have been arguing to the truth, the extant of faults, doublespeak of Lacey and some other characters, if the Dev pay attention to us, well they might figure out we want to know the reality that badly to make it the post-epilogue of the story, so we know, did we overestimate how bad things Lacey did, or did we underestimate how bad things Lacey did.

I mean we collectively spent so many pages arguing about her actions and words, and those of the other characters. I think it all depend on if at the end the Dev want us to have an accurate view on what happened in the story, or if the Dev at the end just decide to not bother. The big fans of NTR would absolutely love to be seeing and having confirmed the fact Lacey cheated far more on the MC than we are let believe by the story. While the fans of the MC & Lacey relationship might love to be proved that she didn't do anything worse than what appeared in the story, so depending on your stance it could be rewarding to have proof things went the way you thought / wanted them to. So ultimately depending on what group the Dev at the last minute might want to throw an appeal toward they could make a final revelation post game to justify a position.

But yea going back on the notion of rewriting and cleaning some elements, yes the chaos might be intended, so we experience the emotions of the MC, but still that being said the amount of incoherent actions or things said by many of the character goes beyond trying to make us feel like the MC I feel, it feel the Dev wasn't sure at times the way they'd want to take the story and just went back and forth between extremes in the process, so just about every characters are problematic. So yea if the Dev want to make many of those characters that are by now fairly unlikable, into being more likeable, it would require work to clean their narrative and characterization. Now I am not talking about a total rewrite, but fixing the endless cycle of bullshit might be if they actually want to make someone like Lacey or Mia at all appear positive.

 

[DeviantFun]

You know, all this talk reminds me why I had been thinking the Dev should potentially considering remaking the game and find a way to fix the narrative and characters, because of how in particular Lacey can be very incoherent as a character, to the point of it being very annoying and confusing. The Dev doesn't seem to be able to figure if they want us to hate Lacey or love her, and if the goal is for us to love her, maybe her character and background need to be cleaned up in a way to make her far less seemingly a constant betrayer, plus strip away her plot armor that allow her to seemingly get away with all of it continually.

I think this is something we all agree with. Not particularly a rewrite...but she is all over the place..uses flimsy excuses and yes, is hypocritical in how she acts from one day to the next...some cleaning up would be better. But then, it all could be completely intentional....

I am perfectly fine with Lacey been in that position, I think with her the author does a mostly good job, slipping up only a few unneccessary occasions:

• saying stuff like drunk and high Lacey is easy to please
• most of the stuff in the JD
• A few answers in the KW, such as the rave one or laughing at MC
• In general being vague on purpose

She is supposed to be somewhat incoherent because she is in a constant state of panic, so her actions are frantic and badly thought out.

Think about this, she comes back to the man she loves, wants to be with him but knows she fucked up, not royally, imperially.
Already having to hide everything and discovering she ruined Mc life (go check the Mia convo about MC virginity), would put stress on anyone, especially someone somewhat unstable like her.

Then you pile on her best "friend" actions, Barty finding out about her, wanting to try and hellp MC in any way possible, getting discovered etc.

Sure, what could be redone is the overuse of the "mental damage lol" stuff, show her inner state of mind, her constant panic of being lleft (it is there but it shows up too sporadically and too late) and her self hate for what she has done to MC (this comes through more and more).

What I would agree on is a rewrite for some characters such as Mia and probably some parts of Anna.

For Mia the changes are obvious, she is written as a monster while she should be flawed, crazy but very likeable.
She is unlikeable to the very core, from her humour to her disgusting behaviour towards MC and Lacey (maybe especially Lacey).
She also has some inconsitencies, such as being super able to keep secrets unless those secrets hurt MC.

Anna needs to be either the girl that wants everyone to be kind or a sillent and calculating backstabber, I understand people are complex but there is too much of a disconnect on what she does and how she is described.
For example, why didn't she ever mention anything to Mc about the tennis dates even if she perceived the damnger and stayed with Lacey to keep her safe?

She says this in act 2:

A "I'm assuming you're not looking for comfort, but an actual answer?"
MC "Yes."
A "..."
A "I would always prefer to be honest with you."
A "But, I guess if I felt your life was in danger and a lie would save you..." (this will probably be used in act 3)
A "Then it's possible I would withhold the truth under certain circumstances."

Yet she hides Lacey's plans, both Jafar and Bastion.
So yeah she is very inconsistent.

Now on the subject of therapy and Lacey saying everything to her therapy so we know the truth of things... bwahahaha you think people tell everything to their therapists? No. Even if counter productive people will lie to their therapists even if said therapists are impartial and cannot share anything you tell them, because people hate being judged, even if its unsaid, so even if Lacey is having therapy you can't expect everything to come out. Plus people like Lacey and the like will try to generate a sort of confirmation bias, so say things in a way to generate support for their decisions / actions.

These are wild assumptions, Lacey told her therapist about the JD, also started bringing her narcissism in the mix, without any prodding so...

You are projecting a lot of stuff over a character, is she looking for a confirmation bias with Dianne too?

You, or anybody else for that matter, have no proof of what is being said and not said aside from the few reports we get from Lacey.

when we speak of individuals, we can't say most people do this or that.

No if you want to know everything, the only way is flashbacks, seeing everything from what amount to her view, or even third party 'God' view would be for the best. Doing so at the end of the game so it cannot influence the decision making and be a shock to the players to see how things truly turn out and cause players to actively respond to events that happen would be the likely way to do, obviously after that a number of players would start again and depending on how bad things were try to sabotage some relationships by making decisions against them. But again if something like that were to happen I'd expect it at the end, so we are nowhere near seeing that sort of final revelation.

No need for all that I think, what is needed by Mc at some point is a better understanding of Lacey motivations and what she did exactly.

Well not exactly, but to go as she did in the slut path 1, that was a well written moment.
This needs tp happen because if MC doesn't know, he wouldn't be able to accept it, unless he is further transformed in a wet blanket and just accepts everything outright.

This would also kind of help Lacey, when she says I did it because I did it she is being stupid, it is painfully clear (and also stated) that she was destroying her old self, she had several ways to do it, saldy she found the wrong "friend" in her path.

We need some damn accountability over here.

But yea going back on the notion of rewriting and cleaning some elements, yes the chaos might be intended, so we experience the emotions of the MC, but still that being said the amount of incoherent actions or things said by many of the character goes beyond trying to make us feel like the MC I feel, it feel the Dev wasn't sure at times the way they'd want to take the story and just went back and forth between extremes in the process, so just about every characters are problematic. So yea if the Dev want to make many of those characters that are by now fairly unlikable, into being more likeable, it would require work to clean their narrative and characterization. Now I am not talking about a total rewrite, but fixing the endless cycle of bullshit might be if they actually want to make someone like Lacey or Mia at all appear positive.

This is gospel, some character perception from the player is sooo far away from how they are treated and perceived in the story that it actually harms the storytelling quite a bit.

 

[AL.d]

I'm just going to add that narcissists are full of contradictions to anyone really paying attention. Because there is dissonance between their own rationalizations meant to protect their self-image and the actual shit they do. Not even just narcissists, bi-polar people do it too. It's a defense mechanism.

This is why, unless it's a very obvious writing mistake, I choose to take Lacey's contradictions as intentional writing.

 

[funnythings3785]

This is just a thought... but don't you think it is possible, being that this game obviously is of the "porn" category, even though it isn't focused hard to that common purpose, that what is "read between the lines" may also be inferring "porn behavior" because this is what you would expect in such writing?

I admit that the first read, all I could fathom in areas where we "don't know for sure" was that lacey was a complete whore as she was depicted in the college photos. I naturally assumed, because this is an adult VN, that Lacey was likely being a whore, well... because of that.

As DeviantFan has argued, many assumptions on intent are actually clarified in careful reads of specific dialogue which do suggest a different behavior in those situations to that suspicious premise. Granted, Lacey does lie, so there is always suspicion, but I think her lies, at least within respect to what the story is trying to portrait Lacey as, are focused not on hiding outright typical "NTR whore betrayal" actions, but layers of her deception based on her honest intent to do what she "believes" is best for the MC.

Because of that, while I still have those "warning bells" going off, I do think Lacey for the most part is being honest in some of these situations where we think more has gone on. It is still a possibility, but I would say based on key elements of the conversation, the framing of Lacey at times that attempt to portray her as being honest to her goals, that it is likely she isn't hiding cheating actions in those circumstances.

She knows the MC and she knows that he will accept a lot and has. She is very good at manipulating him and I think she does know that at the times where she "screwed up", she could likely confess anything she may have been hiding and the MC still would have accepted it and forgiven. So in that respect, I don't think she is still hiding a bunch of "I Gotcha" moments from those times.

That is not to say she doesn't have some more "I Gotcha" moments in general as she ponders these in her monologues about how the MC isn't "ready", yet, to know what she is withholding, but I have to agree with DeviantFan concerning her, that a lot of her actions in those situations are likely close to as she is describing them.

I really don't think the author is trying to set Lacey up in that traditional NTR manner of deception, after all, this isn't a traditional NTR story.

 

[Maviarab]

Think about this, she comes back to the man she loves, wants to be with him but knows she fucked up, not royally, imperially.
Already having to hide everything and discovering she ruined Mc life (go check the Mia convo about MC virginity), would put stress on anyone, especially someone somewhat unstable like her.

The issue I have here is this:

Aside from the nagging doubt at the back of the MC's mind (which didn't affect him overly much), they were happy (or so we are told)...for months and months....and months. Eight months in my opinion in my timeline. No issues. Now, we do know, that during this time, there were issues (from Lacey) that she kept quiet...mainly Barty's visits...but we do not know exactly when these happened, how close together or anything else. There's a gap there between Barty finding out about her...and when did he start 'visiting'...but to make the timeline accurate with confirmed events, it had to be an 8 month 'honeymoon' period as they call it.

Now, let's be serious for a minute, all the shit with the succubus started, coincidentally, at the same time as Mia's lessons. However, let's use our heads here, nothing the MC did...or Mia, or the Lessons...had anything...anything to do with the 4 months of Lacey going completely off the fucking rails. That's all completely on her.

So you go on about guilt...being unstable...keeping secrets...but for 8 months...their life and marriage was fine. So what actually changed in the succubus at that moment when Mia asked for the MC's number and he asked her for the truth? Because everything the succubus does is isolated and not connected to that event.

Now, a lot of this disconnect can be attributed to a very loose timeline I spent weeks analysing to make sense. However, that in itself, still does not change the fact that Lacey going off into the deep end after 'months' is all on her alone and nothing to do with Mia's lessons. Remember, the tennis dates with the boys start the day of the first lesson, two days after MC meets Mia at the cafe. While you can argue coincidental, the MC had no way at all of knowing what Lacey was up to/planning/talking about with Jaraf. That was already being planned while the MC's nagging doubt led him to ask Mia questions. So they cannot be connected.

So I'll ask again, after many months of wedded bliss (Barty visits aside and anything else we are unaware of)...why the sudden jump off the proverbial cliff by Lacey?

 

[DeviantFun]

I'm just going to add that narcissists are full of contradictions to anyone really paying attention. Because there is dissonance between their own rationalizations meant to protect their self-image and the actual shit they do. Not even just narcissists, bi-polar people do it too. It's a defense mechanism.

This is why, unless it's a very obvious writing mistake, I choose to take Lacey's contradictions as intentional writing.

I am with you, I am not well versed anough on bipolarism to add anything of value tbh, but I think Lacey is written well overall.
Some stuff is a bit on the nose for shock value, but she is a character that can be understood in her brokenness (this isn't a word is it?).

Probably I would rate her as the best written character in the story and the most tragic (which doesn't mean that she isn't guilty of many misdeeds).

This is just a thought... but don't you think it is possible, being that this game obviously is of the "porn" category, even though it isn't focused hard to that common purpose, that what is "read between the lines" may also be inferring "porn behavior" because this is what you would expect in such writing?

Yes, some stuff is definitely filled with porn logic.

Look at the movie party they have during the Bastion event, if Anna, Jeanette, Christine and the pimp had ANY consideration for MC, they would not watch it all together or let him watch at all.

Every girl wants MC dick even when he is whiny and sort of unlikeable (unless you love simps).

There is a lot of double standards on sexual harassment, when MC does it, it is all good.

Jafar blackmail doesn't make much sense.

Many of Lacey's choices do have that undertone, jealousy date, watch me fuck someone else, your healing will come from fucking other people etc.

Lacey going over the top during college, if the objective was to normalize sex, gangbangs and humiliation might not be the best route (this reflects on Mia as well).

Overall it is fine, these scenes are used as tools to an end, they could be better (for example MC going crazy and insisting on watching Lacey instead of being put on the couch like a stuffed animal) but they get the job done.

I admit that the first read, all I could fathom in areas where we "don't know for sure" was that lacey was a complete whore as she was depicted in the college photos. I naturally assumed, because this is an adult VN, that Lacey was likely being a whore, well... because of that.

As DeviantFan has argued, many assumptions on intent are actually clarified in careful reads of specific dialogue which do suggest a different behavior in those situations to that suspicious premise. Granted, Lacey does lie, so there is always suspicion, but I think her lies, at least within respect to what the story is trying to portrait Lacey as, are focused not on hiding outright typical "NTR whore betrayal" actions, but layers of her deception based on her honest intent to do what she "believes" is best for the MC.

Because of that, while I still have those "warning bells" going off, I do think Lacey for the most part is being honest in some of these situations where we think more has gone on. It is still a possibility, but I would say based on key elements of the conversation, the framing of Lacey at times that attempt to portray her as being honest to her goals, that it is likely she isn't hiding cheating actions in those circumstances.

I don't argue, I STATE.

Lacey does exactly that, and in many cases, as you correctly state, we are not sure 100%.

A glaring example would be the college career, she tells she was miserable, yet we keep on getting bits and bobs of different situations where she was actually having fun.
I don't doubt she was miserable, but she is telling MC only that specific side, for example Lacey does tell her pimp what she liked and she didn't like sexually.

She spent time with nicer guys, she shared toothbrushes, went to carnivals and raves.

Also look at the manipulation she uses towards MC:

L "I've done too much to you."
L "How will you ever trust me?"
L "How will I ever be able to help you with your pain?"
L "But..."
MC "But?"
L "It's not fair."
MC "What's not fair?"
L "The other side of the coin."
L "What will happen to me if you go."
MC "What will happen to you?"
L "You have to know right?"
L "If you leave me..."
L "I can't live without you."
L "I just can't."
L "It isn't a threat. It isn't an attempt to manipulate you."

I don't even want to know or care if it is intentional or not, but this comes during the "boxes" and the question is, why wouldn't it be fair? Why hit on MC weak spot?
She definitely knows how to push his buttons.

While the main theme and goals do not change, Lacey definitely hides some parts that could hurt MC further or make her look bad.

The pimp was just having fun in college btw, I haven't seen a single moment in the material that could rehabilitate her or show that she was struggling, which is why her "gallows humor" (or graveyard if you like) makes absolutely no sense at all.
Ah wait, she said she cleaned Lacey up after the parties, I guess that could be traumatic .

She knows the MC and she knows that he will accept a lot and has. She is very good at manipulating him and I think she does know that at the times where she "screwed up", she could likely confess anything she may have been hiding and the MC still would have accepted it and forgiven. So in that respect, I don't think she is still hiding a bunch of "I Gotcha" moments from those times.

That is not to say she doesn't have some more "I Gotcha" moments in general as she ponders these in her monologues about how the MC isn't "ready", yet, to know what she is withholding, but I have to agree with DeviantFan concerning her, that a lot of her actions in those situations are likely close to as she is describing them.

I really don't think the author is trying to set Lacey up in that traditional NTR manner of deception, after all, this isn't a traditional NTR story.

This is actually one of the parts that while it could be too much to call inconsistent, should have a higher focus.

Lacey seems constantly terrified that MC would leave her, yet it is hinted at like four times.

Here:

L "Or am I all out of chances?"
MC "I mean, you're saying all the right things."
MC "Although, let's be honest, these should have been things you were already doing."
MC "Not waiting until we're here at the end of our rope."

At the beginning of act 2, which was MC only asking for space anyway:

L "Where are you going?"
MC "To stay at a hotel for a few days until I can figure out what to do."
L "Please don't go."

And at the end of the Bastion event (let's count it anyway even if it was so so):

MC "Everyone will do what I say, or I'm leaving."
MC "Is that clear?"
LP "Yes."
A "Okay."

And the obvious fake video moment.

So the player can never share the feeling that Lacey is going to get dumped, which makes her struggle seem pointless and overtly over the top.
You really need to try and insert that feeling yourself if you want to understand Lacey's actions, since it is not provided by the story.

Now, let's be serious for a minute, all the shit with the succubus started, coincidentally, at the same time as Mia's lessons. However, let's use our heads here, nothing the MC did...or Mia, or the Lessons...had anything...anything to do with the 4 months of Lacey going completely off the fucking rails. That's all completely on her.

So you go on about guilt...being unstable...keeping secrets...but for 8 months...their life and marriage was fine. So what actually changed in the succubus at that moment when Mia asked for the MC's number and he asked her for the truth? Because everything the succubus does is isolated and not connected to that event.

This ia a clear exmple of what I was saying, this point is very no nonsense, Lacey's fear of being discovered (and give something back to MC after she discovers how much she ruined him) are not shown properly, you need to look deep for that and bridge the gaps yourself, so the impression is...that she is doing random shit.

Hiding Barty is obviously because he has videos for example, getting a job is to make Mc happy (she seens that he is not and how much damage she did with her fantastic college idea).

Edit:

So I'll ask again, after many months of wedded bliss (Barty visits aside and anything else we are unaware of)...why the sudden jump off the proverbial cliff by Lacey?

Barty is a big wakeup call, Lacey is not safe anymore, her lies are easy to discover, if a old fat guy exposed her with a simple background check...

The game gives us a bit of a weak motivation, which is that Lacey's brain damage is getting worse...
I know it is super weak, this is why I would rather say that her brain damage is getting worse due to stress BECAUSE Barty happened.
She even knows but won't accept that playing tennis with Jared and Evan and have them comment on her ass and titties every shot is not particularly ok.

 

[Maviarab]

You are missing a crucial part in your turned on part, MC was not there nor was involved in her head.
In both JD and Bastion, Lacey needs and wants MC interaction, and it is underlined in the slut path (you know the material and it is late so please don't make me go quote hunt).

Also wanted to come back to this:

You know, I'm not sure I am missing anything. Where did this 'your jealousy turns me on' actually come from? We never saw any indication of any of it before her conversation about it. Did it come from the whole Three Weeks of Jaraf situation? Was never mentioned before...

I think, much like her brain damage, much like her 'dependancy on him'...that she hugely overplays this too...and it's just another form of her getting what she wants and manipulating the MC. She craves attention and that excites and turns her on. That does not need to be from the MC imo (and this attention may stem from childhood...and certainly can be solidified to her being the 'star' everyone wanted in college once she went down Mia's path)....

 

[DeviantFun]

Also wanted to come back to this:

You know, I'm not sure I am missing anything. Where did this 'your jealousy turns me on' actually come from? We never saw any indication of any of it before her conversation about it. Did it come from the whole Three Weeks of Jaraf situation? Was never mentioned before...

I think, much like her brain damage, much like her 'dependancy on him'...that she hugely overplays this too...and it's just another form of her getting what she wants and manipulating the MC. She craves attention and that excites and turns her on. That does not need to be from the MC imo (and this attention may stem from childhood...and certainly can be solidified to her being the 'star' everyone wanted in college once she went down Mia's path)....

Ok this post seems to be short but there is a lot to unpack.

There is no way to argue the point, if you don't believe what Lacey says, that is it, you don't believe it and there is nothing in the material that corroborates her views aside from Lorenzo being the micro dick guy.

i personally do not think Lacey lies 100%:

• her brain damage is there and is consistent with her drug abuse.

True, it is often overused and portrayed inconsistently, but it is there and probablly has an effect on her decision making skills.
If you don't believe she is seeing a therapist, you might not believe this as well.

• her dependency on him was clear from day one, as soon as she tried to stand without him she failed hard, this is well documented.

Remember her pimp had to push hard to make her start whoring herself out, the pimp + drugs took MC place as her crutch (And the pimp took full advantage of that).

Even now we see how much she wants to be with MC, or at least be assured that he will be there, her separation anxiety is explained with the fear that when she comes back he will not be there.

• her jealousy kink is...eh well, it does come up quite randomly and iirc there is no indication of it aside from when it is clearly stated before the JD.

So yeah I don't have much for you there, to me it is obviously a plot device with porn logic sprikled on.

She gets hot and bothered even if she doesn't have the best relationship with sex (anyone who thinks Lacey has a good relationship with sex please get checked).

I fail to see how that kink has developed after years of not enjoying sex (this is what she says, but then she sais she is only human and find sex pleasurable, leading to a full on exposition during JD, whis however is another topic ), but maybe I am not able to understand it properly and I mean it.

I will fully admit that she craves attention, she admit it as well when she talks about getting validation from Jafar, but it isn't anyone attention that turns her on ,come on, the material gives no indication of it, else she would not have answered Evan that way for example.

As for why she went with all the pimp requests, she was trying extreme stuff to see if it would "cure" her + kill her old self, this is pretty clear, and tbh I am inclined to believe the latter became way more important down the line.
Also, porn logic and building Mia to be a disgusting human being as a side effect.

 

[Maviarab]

her dependency on him was clear from day one, as soon as she tried to stand without him she failed hard, this is well documented.

Was clear...was...was....not since she met Mia though....again, even after the cliff call..12 whole months of no contact. The reasons why don't change the end product/result. She is not as dependant on him as she likes to make out...

I fail to see how that kink has developed after years of not enjoying sex, but maybe I am not able to understand it properly and I mean it.

Not enjoying it huh? Also contradicted numerous times within the story...that's not even me not believing her or playing devil's advocate. She did enjoy it, many times. It validated her, made her feel wanted...desired...competition for her....gave her the attention she craves....now all that may have come after a while, not immediately...but it's there...

else she would not have answered Evan that way for example.

She never hit the roof either though or went nuclear on his ass did she? (in fact, it was such a non-event to her she dismissed it immediately afterwards). Plus, in that particular situation...why would she act positively towards him? Not the best example there Df.

I will fully admit that she craves attention, she admit it as well when she talks about getting validation from Jafar, but it isn't anyone attention that turns her on ,come on, the material gives no indication of it

You answer yourself earlier...

er jealousy kink is...eh well, it does come up quite randomly and iirc there is no indication of it aside from when it is clearly stated before the JD.

So even you lol...can't actually prove that it's only the MC's attention/jealousy that gets her going....but we can both prove and agree attention is constant

 

[DeviantFun]

Was clear...was...was....not since she met Mia though....again, even after the cliff call..12 whole months of no contact. The reasons why don't change the end product/result. She is not as dependant on him as she likes to make out...

Look, she spent countless hours listening to MC cuck song on her phone, she cried thinking about him and repeating to herself she was doing "it" for MC, she attempted suicide etc.
The 12 months where mostly to clean herself up and to buy time because she feels guilty as shit.

She even tried to off herself with drugs when it was clear she wouldn'y be able to come back to MC.

I know everything she did is disgusting, but on the dependency, I will not give in.

Not enjoying it huh? Also contradicted numerous times within the story...that's not even me not believing her or playing devil's advocate. She did enjoy it, many times. It validated her, made her feel wanted...desired...competition for her....have her the attention she craves....

I edited that part just before you posted, this is a contentious topic, because it would also have to dwelve on emotional involvement.
What she didn't enjoy much were the gangbangs (maybe a bit at the beginning) a lot of other stuff she enjoyed, physically.

Come on there is a difference about a one night stand and having sex with a person you love.

I am looking at the slut path and I cannot really find all this attention seeking you mention tbh, because I can't recall if there is a reference to that.
Her gangbangs recounts do not state anything of the sort but maybe it is in another dialogue.

Anyway she does like the attention, 99% from MC, but also from other sources (flirt dialogue which is in the phonecalls file iirc and I cba to open it hahaha)

She never hit the roof either though did she? Plus, in that particular situation...why would she act positively towards him? Not the best example there Df.

You answer yourself earlier...

Maybe not the best example, but if she was interested and always horny for attention that would have been a perfect situation.

Does hit the roof mean getting super angry? True, she doesn't

There is a distinct difference from feeling good and validated from other people attention and being wet enough to be able to resolve the water shortage in Africa.
This is the difference there is between other people attention and MC jealousy have.

So even you lol...can't actually prove that it's only the MC's attention/jealousy that gets her going....but we can both prove and agree attention is constant

I have no hints from the material from when it started, I fully recognize that there is a difference, maybe this is a hint?

L "I dreamt that you were at one of the parties, somewhere in the crowd."
L "That you were there looking after me."
L "That you still loved me."
L "And you would come and fuck me in front of all those other boys."

It is far fetched, because the dialogue context is completely different, but maybe imagining him there made her juices flow?

So the only think I have to admit is that the jeallousy kink comes out from nowhere, but overall I think it is ok, I mean the more we go on the more we will discover the characters.

 

[Diosvincenccio]

If one should go full tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist, you could think she told MC without actually telling him, or at the very lied by omission again

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Again while talking about still dressing like a slut, the words chosen are suspicious, while talking about the broken promise of stop dressing like a slut, if you want it also could be an admision of more. Like you say, she has those lines that could be interpreted as telling him without actually telling him.

So what actually changed in the succubus at that moment when Mia asked for the MC's number and he asked her for the truth? Because everything the succubus does is isolated and not connected to that event.

Actually, there was this odd thing that happened to me a while ago where i remembered a few lines of the game that i cant find again, not sure if it was retconed on Act 2 or im missremembering. It was about Mia telling Lacey that she had Mc promise to keep quite of the College lessons for 3 months to give her time for her to come clean on her own and she never did.

That kind of ultimatum (forcing her to come clean about her past which Lacey tried to at least delay) and Mia asking for MC number to have a way to fullfill the threat that she gave her, could have thrown Lacey out of place and started the whole snowball of events(tennis dates, etc...) and in the end MC "forced" Mia the reveal before the agreed time was over(which should have been the 3 months of silence that Mia forces on MC).

I know im giving a lot of weight to something that i cant find again but we have some circunstancial evidence, like Lacey telling Mia that she showed MC the images of her college past before she was "ready". And well at no point of the story we see her trying to pep herself up to be ready and do the talk on her own.

So the whole thing kind of fits, and whould be consistent with the characters motivations (Mia forcing Lacey to come clean so the couple breaks) and if Lacey didnt do it of her own accord she would do it for her, thats why Mia had the whole script for the lessons ready. And again Mia whould be the instigator of the source of pain for Lacey which at this game is already a motif.

 

[Maviarab]

It was about Mia telling Lacey that she had Mc promise to keep quite of the College lessons for 3 months to give her time for her to come clean on her own and she never did.

Yeah we've discussed that beofre...there's nothing there and I can't recall any such dialogue taking place.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

Yeah we've discussed that beofre...there's nothing there and I can't recall any such dialogue taking place.

I think it’s time somewhere does a deepdive on any dialogue changes in Act 1

Would give me something to do, things have finally gotten quiet at work again

EDIT: just checked, original Act 1 is still available on patreon, and downloaded it, might even start tonight

 

[Maviarab]

Have at. Maybe speak to DF too. I don't haver a copy of the original Act 1 script so I can't help I'm afraid.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

Have at. Maybe speak to DF too. I don't haver a copy of the original Act 1 script so I can't help I'm afraid.

DeviantFun can you verify whether the Act 1 from April on patreon is the original or was there an even earlier version and reuploaded?

 

[DeviantFun]

I don't have an original Act1 either, but I am quite sure no such dialogue existed.

But I'll get a copy too, maybe there is something.

DeviantFun can you verify whether the Act 1 from April on patreon is the original or was there an even earlier version and reuploaded?

Due to a mistake on my part, I don't own the original anymore, only the DF version.

It is still kinda accurate, since it doesn't touch many lines of dialogue outside from MC's, and there is nothing about three months talk between Mia and Lacey.

Even Mia throws the three months to MC kinda randomly, like she is choosing an arbitrary number (which I know is used for narrative reasons, but doesn't make sense).

M "You can't tell ANY of this to Lacey for..."
M "let's say three months."

And now that I think about it, MC has some of the worst lines of dialogue ever after that:

"Part of me is happy that Mia was able to help Lacey."

Thank god the author realized how turbo cuck that was and then retconned it in act 2.

 

[Thatlostone]

Just finished this game for the first time. I saw it when it first came out but the preview art kept me firmly away, but I decided to give it a chance after reading a recommendation in another thread. And it was pretty great, way more novel than game, but the story is very engaging and well written. It reminded me of the classic RAAC stories I read in Literotica back in 2017/2018. Very similar to works like

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or anything by

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. I always enjoyed these stories as character studies better than the quick revenge tales you find on the BTB category and it's nice seeing a story as complex as this in a visual novel. The story really keeps you thinking about the different possibilities for the main couple. I don't really consider this story to be netorare in the literal sense, but it fits closely with the label (as do most RAAC stories). The art is definitely the worse aspect of the game, but the story kinda balances it out. Looking forward to Act 3.