VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[Maviarab]

for what she constantly puts the MC through

This

All the shit started really from the day she came back into his life and appeared at his door. Doesn't really matter what she did in college. That she intentionally withheld it...then lied....it all snowballs from there. Have you seen my excel timeline posted in the OP? Real eye opening seeing all her fuck ups over 4 months laid out neatly in a row...

The easy answer is because she doesn't really give a fuck, the easier is for narrative purposes.

100% this

Not considering that the issues (such as the PTSD) MC has are all related to abandonement and betrayal trauma more than co dependency.

This..but see below...

MC has already shown that he would rather leave than commit suicide

100^ this. So, I'm of the opinion he is not actually that co-dependant or dependant on her at all. The writing (like many things in this story) just make it seem that way. End of the day, he has specifically stated he'd prefer to just fuck off somewhere far away (ideally with the Goddess that is Kelly). Lacey during the Three Weeks of Jared was barely around and barely even saw her, let alone speak to her for the duration of the third week. Lacey is always off somewhere, doing something...without the MC.

The MC was just fine during all these periods...went to work...came home, did his thing. Even without Mia and Anna for a lot of it. He was even on his way out of the door to a hotel at one point remember? Is that the actions of someone utterly and completely dependant on someone else? He is not dependant at all really (he may at times think he is), just the writing makes it seem that way. His issue is that now he is 'officially' with her, more betrayal. That he cannot deal with. I think if she left him for some amazing job in Timbuctoo...he'd be fine with it. Leabving for another man...that's a big issue in his head.

Let us also not forget, after the cliff phone call...the MC went twelve...whole...months...with no contact from her...and almost 6 months with very little contact from Anna (except a call at weekend, he never saw her either). The MC was...yup, you guessed it...just fine. He got a job, a place of his own...on his own...and he was...just...fine.

He just needs no bullshit, lies and drama.

If the only way he will get that is to leave, he has already shown, undeniable, that he is prepared to do that, until one of the girls gaslights him into staying....thus we come back to the same old argument from months ago. He needs to leave, he needs a seperation, permanent or otherwise (and weirdly, I think he probably knows if he leaves her, every single one of his issues will resolved immediately) and have the conviction to not blame himself or worry about any threats from a certain demonic succubus called Yara...Lacey.

Hell...it says a lot when, let's be honest, he'd be better off with a fucking succubus than his wife.....

 

[Diosvincenccio]

just being left alone with Lacey proved to not work

Actually is kinda the contrary. When they were together at the beginning of the game they were really good. Sure. He had this little something in the back of his head asking why was she so good at sex things, but in general he was happy. It last until Mia lessons, who she should have handled a lot more delicately as MC did with Bella. Mia really killed his joy. Of course the revelation about Lacey was damaging, but all the charade over the lessons, the letting it fest on his head, the constant contradicting info between Mia and Lacey, the secrets, etc... If they both had been straight about it he would have taken the hit a lot better. While still would have ended hurt, the damage wouldnt have been to this extent.

At one point an individual can be declared inept at taking decisions, and the MC sadly is there, he is inept at taking decisions in his own interest, so sadly he need someone to take said decisions until he cease to be inept.

Thats still Lacey rationale. Still overuling MC desires for what you, or any player, would consider the better. That its exactly the root of Lacey plans, the source of a lot of the fuck ups. No Magic Solutions. The origin of a lot of the damage that caused the MC to be in this state is exactly thinking like that, that someone else knows best.

You want him to be better, to be more autonome and stand up for himself. Well the solution for that cant be taking away the little autonomy he has.

Let me give you a question. A doctor has a patient with cardiac arrest and one of those DO NOT RESUCITATE bracelets, the patient is about to die, does he declare the patient inept or should he respect his wishes?

Yeah ok, for like 15 minutes, but what are we discussing here? hahah

That even when the intent is to help Mia methods always include someone ending hurt. And second, i was telling you that you are right, not even Kelly can substitute Lacey completely, nor it was the intended plan by Mia at the begining.

Eh, sure, aside from the fact that what MC really wants has left the building quite some time ago.

Indeed. A perfect marriage is long gone. But the harem could give all of them something good. Girls that want MC can get a piece of him. Lacey does something altruistic that causes her pain for MC good instead of being the MC who always ends hurt. And MC gets to see Lacey doing the effort, the sacrifice, for their relationship, something that while he dont want (He dosent want Lacey to suffer) he needs to see and even told her, he needs to see her put him in first place over her desires. Make him believe that he matters to her more than just some pretty words.

Would the harem/sharing MC with the girls be a perfect solution, of course not. But it would be a good thing for all of them, does it solve all the problems for all the characters? Nah. Can it open a whole can of worms? Yeah.

But we would get a lot of sexy scenes.

I mean if say the second like means that, the first line has to mean the same, else it doesn't make sense.
Mia's plan was for MC to break up with Lacey and have all the other girls "soothe his battle wounds", hence the drugs.

I feel like those lines are talking about different plans, or at least about different parts of Mia plans. First one is about Lacey taking a step down and going back to the same level that the rest of the girls are. To having to fight for your loved one for his attention over other women. The drugs were a solution provided to her to cope with the loss. And due Lacey actions and friendship with the girls a deal is kind of made, instead of Lacey stepping down, Mia and Anna are included in the sharing, they both step up while Lacey maintains her power/role of queen(the loved one by Mc). The dont know part would be because in the end Lacey had to make some concessions.

Then Mc makes a question about if she knew Mia visited him and Lacey says that she knows and have seen the photos Mia showed him and they have a convo about what the talked etc..., and theres a whole new dialogue about how his bad feelings were his problem. Thats where the second line is, and its the one i agree with you, the dialogue is about Mia plan to break them appart by showing and remind him what he considers the disgusting side of Lacey, her past and the fuck ups that she did in act 1.

Anyway without a proper explanation of the motivations its kinda interpretative.

There is no intrusion to apologize about.

I know, and we have some confidence between us due previous talks, but its kind of rude to get into a two person dialogue uninvited, the least i could do was being polite.

Haha she wasn't stipping at Jared parties, or at least we have no actual proof, don't give Maviarab ideas.

With Mav dirty mind? Too late Anyway the whole 120 hours and what she did on them discussion was already raised before, and as most of the time it ended as always, not enough info.

 

[funnythings3785]

He just needs no bullshit, lies and drama.

If the only way he will get that is to leave, he has already shown, undeniable, that he is prepared to do that, until one of the girls gaslights him into staying....thus we come back to the same old argument from months ago. He needs to leave, he needs a seperation, permanent or otherwise (and weirdly, I think he probably knows if he leaves her, every single one of his issues will resolved immediately) and have the conviction to not blame himself or worry about any threats from a certain demonic succubus called Yara...Lacey.

Hell...it says a lot when, let's be honest, he'd be better off with a fucking succubus than his wife.....

Exactly, there were a couple of times where he was set on it, he was going to leave, it is settled... then one of the girls talks him out of it ("You can't, she loves you, etc.." pushing him to wait and think about it... )

It is almost like the whole gang is in on a sick joke with him (not being entirely serious) because every time he actually seeks this resolution, they all convince him to not go through with it).

 

[Maviarab]

If they both had been straight about it he would have taken the hit a lot better.

This all the damn way. Sure, it would be a shock but you'd get over it as it was in the past. What you are/she is/have now is more important.

Thats still Lacey rationale. Still overuling MC desires for what you, or any player, would consider the better. That its exactly the root of Lacey plans, the source of a lot of the fuck ups. No Magic Solutions. The origin of a lot of the damage that caused the MC to be in this state is exactly thinking like that, that someone else knows best.

You want him to be better, to be more autonome and stand up for himself. Well the solution for that cant be taking away the little autonomy he has.

Let me give you a question. A doctor has a patient with cardiac arrest and one of those DO NOT RESUCITATE bracelets, the patient is about to die, does he declare the patient inept or should he respect his wishes?

But we would get a lot of sexy scenes.

With Mav dirty mind? Too late

What...is....I just...is it gang up on Mavi day or something?

 

[DeviantFun]

Actually is kinda the contrary. When they were together at the beginning of the game they were really good. Sure. He had this little something in the back of his head asking why was she so good at sex things, but in general he was happy. It last until Mia lessons, who she should have handled a lot more delicately as MC did with Bella. Mia really killed his joy. Of course the revelation about Lacey was damaging, but all the charade over the lessons, the letting it fest on his head, the constant contradicting info between Mia and Lacey, the secrets, etc... If they both had been straight about it he would have taken the hit a lot better. While still would have ended hurt, the damage wouldnt have been to this extent.

Finally some sense, this, so much this.
The pimp ruined Lacey and MC future and then killed any little chance they had to actually patch up in a healthy way by being the usual bitch.

But hey! She makes silicone copies of Mc dick! Isn't she hilarious?! Such a quirky girl!

Thats still Lacey rationale. Still overuling MC desires for what you, or any player, would consider the better. That its exactly the root of Lacey plans, the source of a lot of the fuck ups. No Magic Solutions. The origin of a lot of the damage that caused the MC to be in this state is exactly thinking like that, that someone else knows best.

You want him to be better, to be more autonome and stand up for himself. Well the solution for that cant be taking away the little autonomy he has.

Let me give you a question. A doctor has a patient with cardiac arrest and one of those DO NOT RESUCITATE bracelets, the patient is about to die, does he declare the patient inept or should he respect his wishes?

Exactly, instead of advocating for self growth and self improvement over time, folks are acting like they are a character in the game, trying to find easy solutions to complex problems that require care and attention.
Aside from dehumanizing MC, which is a worrysome way of thinking.

That even when the intent is to help Mia methods always include someone ending hurt. And second, i was telling you that you are right, not even Kelly can substitute Lacey completely, nor it was the intended plan by Mia at the begining.

Understood, i agree.

Indeed. A perfect marriage is long gone. But the harem could give all of them something good. Girls that want MC can get a piece of him. Lacey does something altruistic that causes her pain for MC good instead of being the MC who always ends hurt. And MC gets to see Lacey doing the effort, the sacrifice, for their relationship, something that while he dont want (He dosent want Lacey to suffer) he needs to see and even told her, he needs to see her put him in first place over her desires. Make him believe that he matters to her more than just some pretty words.

Would the harem/sharing MC with the girls be a perfect solution, of course not. But it would be a good thing for all of them, does it solve all the problems for all the characters? Nah. Can it open a whole can of worms? Yeah.

But we would get a lot of sexy scenes.

Yeah, and Lacey is going around making sure the people in the "harem" (I do dislike the term in this situation) are not out to hurt MC.

The good thing I can see from this, is that MC realizes that he is worthy of love, how this has not been realized since every single woman literally throws themselves at him emotionallly and sexually, but we work with wqhat we have.

It is still not a fix for his self reliance, but could be a piece of the puzzle AND it would punish Lacey and punishment is always good.

I feel like those lines are talking about different plans, or at least about different parts of Mia plans. First one is about Lacey taking a step down and going back to the same level that the rest of the girls are. To having to fight for your loved one for his attention over other women. The drugs were a solution provided to her to cope with the loss. And due Lacey actions and friendship with the girls a deal is kind of made, instead of Lacey stepping down, Mia and Anna are included in the sharing, they both step up while Lacey maintains her power/role of queen(the loved one by Mc). The dont know part would be because in the end Lacey had to make some concessions.

Then Mc makes a question about if she knew Mia visited him and Lacey says that she knows and have seen the photos Mia showed him and they have a convo about what the talked etc..., and theres a whole new dialogue about how his bad feelings were his problem. Thats where the second line is, and its the one i agree with you, the dialogue is about Mia plan to break them appart by showing and remind him what he considers the disgusting side of Lacey, her past and the fuck ups that she did in act 1.

Anyway without a proper explanation of the motivations its kinda interpretative.

Yeah ok, to me is perfectly clear what they are talking about, but it is inconsequential since the second line exists and clears the pimp endgame goal.

I know, and we have some confidence between us due previous talks, but its kind of rude to get into a two person dialogue uninvited, the least i could do was being polite.

I mean it is not like you dopped a dick pic .

I am joking of course, I answered to you as a message to all, more discussion is always good.

With Mav dirty mind? Too late Anyway the whole 120 hours and what she did on them discussion was already raised before, and as most of the time it ended as always, not enough info.

Well yeah, "she was bored and having heart to heart with strippers" is very silly as an explanation isn't it? Especially since she would have all the attention from Jared.

I willl still hold firm that nothing sexual happened, but flirting and so on are on the table.

 

[Maviarab]

punishment is always good.

I willl still hold firm that nothing sexual happened, but flirting and groping along with copious amounts of coke and shots are definitely on the table.

Fixed that one for you my dude

 

[funnythings3785]

Finally some sense, this, so much this.
The pimp ruined Lacey and MC future and then killed any little chance they had to actually patch up in a healthy way by being the usual bitch.

But hey! She makes silicone copies of Mc dick! Isn't she hilarious?! Such a quirky girl!

Yeah, she is pretty darn evil when you think about it.

I would almost want Lacey and the MC to gang up on her and give her a bit of her own medicine.

She was raped and is afraid/dislikes men, so... how about some Mia solutions right? Pump her on ketamine and hold gang parties on her for months on end, you know... to get her over her fear! Cuz... care and all!

I mean, they would just be helping her right?

 

[Maviarab]

Yeah, she is pretty darn evil when you think about it.

I would almost want Lacey and the MC to gang up on her and give her a bit of her own medicine.

She was raped and is afraid/dislikes men, so... how about some Mia solutions right? Pump her on ketamine and hold gang parties on her for months on end, you know... to get her over her fear! Cuz... care and all!

I mean, they would just be helping her right?

The hell dude?

Can we please...get away from turning the pimp into the succubus two point zero. Never gonna happen for a start aside from the fact it's a little disturbing.

All that aside, we have the dumb weak NTR bad guys plot for that shit.

 

[DeviantFun]

Yeah, she is pretty darn evil when you think about it.

Even if you don't think about it, anyone with even a speck of morals and empathy would see everything she does as extremely fucked up.
And before the usual "gne gne but she has trauma gne gne" group comes about, let me state again: YOUR OWN TRAUMA IS NEVER AN EXCUSE TO BE A SHIT PERSON.

I would almost want Lacey and the MC to gang up on her and give her a bit of her own medicine.

I don't, the only thing I would like to see all of the character recognizing how everything she did is extremely fucked up and simply let her go her way.
Mc doesn't need revenge, he needs peace and love, and the pimp has been a thorn in his and Lacey's life for long enough.

She was raped and is afraid/dislikes men, so... how about some Mia solutions right? Pump her on ketamine and hold gang parties on her for months on end, you know... to get her over her fear! Cuz... care and all!

I mean, they would just be helping her right?

Eh look, I am not a fan of the solution, I would never stoop as low as her and...well it would be an overall disgusting thing to do.

Anyway, don't forget, she admits she used Lacey for herself during those parties, I mean, what is wrong about using a traumatized girl to get over her own issues?

So she ends up a virgin and Lacey ends up with a ruined life.

It would have been better to make her participate together with Lacey, so at least she would have put her money where her mouth is and would get some respect.
Instead she ends up looking as an abusive pimp.

The hell dude?

Can we please...get away from turning the pimp into the succubus two point zero. Never gonna happen for a start aside from the fact it's a little disturbing.

All that aside, we have the dumb weak NTR bad guys plot for that shit.

Agreed, I don't know what sort of revenge that would be, not a fan, not a fan at all.

 

[funnythings3785]

It was more of a facetious solution to be honest, more to point out the ridiculousness of how she claimed she was helping Lacey with her intimacy issue by turning her into a full fledged porn star.

As evil as it would be, it would be somewhat fitting for the damage she has done.

 

[Diosvincenccio]

I willl still hold firm that nothing sexual happened, but flirting and so on are on the table.

MC "He told me that he has already fucked you."
MC "Multiple times."
MC "And that you belong to him now."
MC "Any thoughts on that?"
L "That isn't true."
MC "No?"
L "I swear to you on my unending love that I have never been with another man during our marriage."

I was gonna say, given Lacey tendency. MC should question the chosen words she said. She may have not have sex with others at that point of the story, but an addict in 120 hours of parties with drugs flowing? With her need for validation and all the others hollering at her? The girl with a oral fixation? Yeah, she can be right, she didnt have sex, but blowjobs/handjobs aint "being with another man" right? If Lacey says it question even that the sky is blue.

 

[Maviarab]

I have never been with another man during our marriage.

Then 11 days later....

 

[Ares26]

I don't, the only thing I would like to see all of the character recognizing how everything she did is extremely fucked up and simply let her go her way.

I do agree that the best course for everyone would be to just let Mia go away, let her be the one that has to do all the self-reflection and soul searching for all the terrible things she has done. If, and it is a very big if, she proved that after months of isolation from everyone that she truly realized what she did, took accountability, and gave a very heartfelt apology to everyone, then she might be slowly let back in. She would always need to be careful to not revert back to her old ways (including hurtful jokes about the past) as that would mean instant removal from the group permanently.

Anyway, don't forget, she admits she used Lacey for herself during those parties, I mean, what is wrong about using a traumatized girl to get over her own issues?

So she ends up a virgin and Lacey ends up with a ruined life.

Just a point of clarification, she can't be a virgin due to her past trauma. She can be celibate for the rest of her life but her virginity is long gone (through no fault of her own).

 

[Diosvincenccio]

Then 11 days later....

Anyway, the 120 hours of parties is one of the big betrayals that its often forgotten usually more focused on the dresses or the job than what she did at the party or what she was willing to do at them for the job, and we only have a few lines about it and from not so reliable sources at those moments, as they were running defence at the time they were questioned about it.

EDIT because its a small reply.

There is only one source...and she is about as reliable as a chocolate fireguard....

Mia running defence on Lacey behalf, or Lacey itself if you trust her.

 

[Maviarab]

Anyway, the 120 hours is one of the big betrayals that its often forgotten, and we only have a few lines about it and from not so reliable sources at those moments, as they were running defence at the time they were questioned about it.

There is only one source...and she is about as reliable as a chocolate fireguard....

 

[funnythings3785]

MC "He told me that he has already fucked you."
MC "Multiple times."
MC "And that you belong to him now."
MC "Any thoughts on that?"
L "That isn't true."
MC "No?"
L "I swear to you on my unending love that I have never been with another man during our marriage."

I was gonna say, given Lacey tendency. MC should question the chosen words she said. She may have not have sex with others at that point of the story, but an addict in 120 hours of parties with drugs flowing? With her need for validation and all the others hollering at her? The girl with a oral fixation? Yeah, she can be right, she didnt have sex, but blowjobs/handjobs aint "being with another man" right? If Lacey says it question even that the sky is blue.

Yeah, this one has me wondering as well...

For the type of person she is, it would be extremely easy to mislead in this situation, especially with her letting the MC think she never had sex with the "I had no boyfriends" comment.

Blow jobs would be a difficult one for her to get around (not that she wouldn't betray her original claims) as she has stated "oral" is more important to her than sex, so... that would be a hard one for her to justify within her claims.

My guess is she could easily have done the "50 hand job" thing and become a cum dumpster for the group and still claim she was "never with another man" making her own mind seem like she is being truthful.

In the end, I don't think the writing was trying to suggest this (unless I missed something) and on its face, what she claimed is what happened, at least from the perspective of how the writer is trying to frame it.

Who knows though, maybe we find out more and this is yet another... "well, I didn't lie... I just didn't equate what you thought with what I thought and so..."

As was mentioned by the professor though, I think the Lacey "I gotcha" moments are not going to be a progression in the near future and we are likely to see more from the other girls in terms of betrayal, or if it includes Lacey, it won't likely be a betrayal, but another blackmail concept where she is forced into it, which the MC will easily forgive.

 

[BigTTiger]

I don't even understand how this is considered heated, it is a sharing of views, nothing more, nothing less.

Okay maybe not heated but intense would that be a better wording

 

[Maviarab]

Yeah, this one has me wondering as well...

For the type of person she is, it would be extremely easy to mislead in this situation, especially with her letting the MC think she never had sex with the "I had no boyfriends" comment.

Blow jobs would be a difficult one for her to get around (not that she wouldn't betray her original claims) as she has stated "oral" is more important to her than sex, so... that would be a hard one for her to justify within her claims.

My guess is she could easily have done the "50 hand job" thing and become a cum dumpster for the group and still claim she was "never with another man" making her own mind seem like she is being truthful.

In the end, I don't think the writing was trying to suggest this (unless I missed something) and on its face, what she claimed is what happened, at least from the perspective of how the writer is trying to frame it.

Who knows though, maybe we find out more and this is yet another... "well, I didn't lie... I just didn't equate what you thought with what I thought and so..."

As was mentioned by the professor though, I think the Lacey "I gotcha" moments are not going to be a progression in the near future and we are likely to see more from the other girls in terms of betrayal, or if it includes Lacey, it won't likely be a betrayal, but another blackmail concept where she is forced into it, which the MC will easily forgive.

The bigger issue here along with her very particular choice of words (which is telling, because she does this a lot), is that as I said to Dios earlier, there is only one persepective...hers...and hers is very, very limited on information and it is also in the middle of everything she is doing wrong.

Just like with Barty, forget what Mia says, it's completely irelevant...she wasn't there....so only knows what the succubus has told her. Now, given when all this takes place and when Lacey 'explains'....and alright, yes I'm biased here, but it's all susser than a sus bag full of damp sus things (as Blackadder would say).

Let us also not forget, on two seperate ocassions, Lacey acts WAY out of character during those three weeks (The MC even comments on the first one). Now, unless this really is a shed load of smoke and mirrors from the professor (at the time of everything else)...then it all points to one thing and one thing alone....and given everything else that has happened, everything she has done...(remember, we have 'confirmed'...one voluntary ket use, 8 gaslights and 10 blatant lies to the MC's face by the Firday of the third week of Jarad, a three month period).

What's the old saying? If it looks like a succubus, talks like a succubus and sucks like a fucking succubus....then it's probably a lying, whore suc....

 

[MightbeSomeone]

I just wish there was a way for the mc to not have sex with anyone but lacy so the mc could use this as a reason for getting rid of her in the end and using his loyalty as a tool
For removing her from his life

 

[funnythings3785]

I just wish there was a way for the mc to not have sex with anyone but lacy so the mc could use this as a reason for getting rid of her in the end and using his loyalty as a tool
For removing her from his life

Yeah, I prefer these types of options. I tend to play the netorare games this way for this very reason, that I want the MC to be completely and fully untouchable in the blame of things, but... often in those games they tend to view that behavior as "being a cuck" and it speeds you down the road of being the kicking bag for humiliation, "what? You don't want to screw around as well? You must be a cuck loser!".

Thing is though, I am not sure this will end with him not being with Lacey, but who knows. Regardless, I understand your point and would prefer to have the option to have the MC be the truly faithful one here leaving all shame and blame on the truly guilty party.