VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[DeviantFun]

There are so many details in the story that it is easy to conclude certain motives and directions if you miss key things. I know I have done it numerous times and have to adjust when some certain things get pointed out. The story is really a deep case study in that respect.

I would say DeviantFun is likely one of the few who has "detailed" it to such extreme (at times almost obsessed ) levels. They are important points though and do change the evaluations on various issues concerning the characters.

Well...thank you for the vote of confidence,I think I admitted it in the past, I sort of went all in on this story and tried to get into all nooks and cranny to understand every aspect...to obsessive levels almost.

There is a major thing to always underline here, everyone can be wrong about what the characters real intentions are because we see that sometimes the action doesn't match the exposition.

For example Doomly view of Anna is textbook, it is exactly how she is presented and explained in the material, but then you look at what she does and suddenly the characterization does not make sense.
This is true for several characters, hell, look at the pimp, she should be a caring girl with bad trauma, yet everything she does and did is akin to a monster disguised as a human.

So I can understand when folks are confused, but I still like to point out what doesn't make sense, because to me it is fun to discuss and see other perspectives.

One hill I will die on, and the regulars of the thread know this full well, is that Lacey is misunderstood heavily mostly because she garners a lot of (sometimes VERY reasonable) hate, so it is easy to discount her own troubles and challenges.
And no, I don't mean the brain damage.

Aye, definetly. The game is awesome in the emotionall pull it provides, and theres tonnes of small details that you can pick. Like i said once, this is not a skip to porn scene game, not if you want to undestand what is happening.

And yes, DeviantFun is definetly one that has studied the game amply. He has always good reasoning and most of the time you can only argue against him small details of the story, for example, we used to argue about the motivation of Lacey drug use during the Damian scene.

Im not saying follow DF thought train about the game blindly (we use to argue about details to some degree) but he has good logic and rationale so at least listen to the "resident expert" and think about it.

Definitely do not follow me blindly, else I would have no one to discuss with and bounce ideas off, I also remember that you corrected me once on a lline of dialogue or something.
I don't recall exactly, but it still stings hahaha.

I am not saying that I have the truth in my pocket, like we say in my country, but I do make an effort to understand.

 

[BigTTiger]

One hill I will die on, and the regulars of the thread know this full well, is that Lacey is misunderstood heavily mostly because she garners a lot of (sometimes VERY reasonable) hate, so it is easy to discount her own troubles and challenges.
And no, I don't mean the brain damage.

So, what is the hate that Lacey garners for herself is it the hate she has for her parent's and the abuses she suffered or for what she became at college or for what she constantly puts the MC through or all the above?

 

[DeviantFun]

So, what is the hate that Lacey garners for herself is it the hate she has for her parent's and the abuses she suffered or for what she became at college or for what she constantly puts the MC through or all the above?

I meant the hate she got from the readers.

Her actions in college have basis but are cruel towards MC and most of what she did in act 1 is really fucked up.

I don't even know if she hates her parents more than she hates herself for what she was before college and what she has become during (and to an extent after).

Edit:

Just as another discussion topic, I bet everyone remembers how the pimp and MC flirted at the club, to then promise to never do that again and that Lacey should never know.

Good, it seems that Mia is full on capable to hold her tongue in that regard, then why "she feels comfortable enough" to actually say a lot of shit about Lacey's past and her awesome documentary when in front fo MC? This is also a taboo topic, so why the difference between the two?

The easy answer is because she doesn't really give a fuck, the easier is for narrative purposes.

But I am curious about what other folks think.

 

[BigTTiger]

I meant the hate she got from the readers.

Her actions in college have basis but are cruel towards MC and most of what she did in act 1 is really fucked up.

I don't even know if she hates her parents more than she hates herself for what she was before college and what she has become during (and to an extent after).

Edit:

Just as another discussion topic, I bet everyone remembers how the pimp and MC flirted at the club, to then promise to never do that again and that Lacey should never know.

Good, it seems that Mia is full on capable to hold her tongue in that regard, then why "she feels comfortable enough" to actually say a lot of shit about Lacey's past and her awesome documentary when in front fo MC? This is also a taboo topic, so why the difference between the two?

The easy answer is because she doesn't really give a fuck, the easier is for narrative purposes.

But I am curious about what other folks think.

It's both funny and ironic that y'all call Mia the "pimp" because she basically pimped Lacey out to all the John's in college

 

[Diosvincenccio]

It's both funny and ironic that y'all call Mia the "pimp" because she basically pimped Lacey out to all the John's in college

Funny yes, ironic no. We use that nickname with full knowledge And yeah, theres a few lines in the game that suggest Mia could have been compensated for introducing Lacey to people. Of course what the did later has nothing to do with her

 

[DeviantFun]

Funny yes, ironic no. We use that nickname with full knowledge And yeah, theres a few lines in the game that suggest Mia could have been compensated for introducing Lacey to people. Of course what the did later has nothing to do with her

Now I am curious, I know there was this theory running around, but you remember which lines or at least around which part the suggestion is made? I want to check!

 

[Diosvincenccio]

M "He was graduating and got a contract to play professional football and wanted to party."
M "I introduced them and I guess Lacey decided to go through with it."

So we have Mia admiting that she introduced Lacey to someone who wanted to "party".

L "I was a cheap party favor."

"She wasn't a party favor in college because all those men had control over her."

If Lacey is the favor or sex with her is, someone is making that favor to others, and we know that Mia is the one directing Lacey sex challenges, she wanting to please Mia was done by fucking others.

MC "All the boys."
MC "They all had sex with my Lacey."
MC "Isn't that super funny?"
MC "I think it is."
MC "Super so funny."
MC "And honey... and money... and some other rhyming word..."

Sure, MC is drunk but its a weird moment to get a random thought about money.

MC "All that means is that maybe you won't dress like a whore for nothing."
MC "But you wouldn't think twice about doing it for someone who offers you something you want."
MC "You think that makes it better?"
L "God dammit. You're right."
L "You're completely right."
L "But I never wore those clothes to be a sleazy prostitute who wants guys to ogle me."
L "So please don't think that."
L "You can be angry and that's okay."
L "But please don't think I was ever trying to revert to who I was in college."
L "I will never, I swear on my life, ever go back to being that version of me."


They are talking about she dressing like a whore if it serves her, but Lacey choice of words are interesting. Instead of defending herself she kind of linked that to her past. And that mention of her "version" is strange and out of place if talking about using clothes to get what she wants, even more so linking it to the past because she just admited that she used the clothes for that (blue dress for damian and slutty dress/golden bikini for Jared) .


Ok, its getting late and i still have to dinner and go, if still interested i will continue to check the script later. Anyway if what you want is a direct line that says Mia was pimping Lacey, there's no such line.

But if we get in mind the whole thing, Mia introducing people to Lacey (i think that there was a line that said that Mia got some benefits or favors for doing that), Lacey wanting to please Mia, and we add in consideration how the hell Lacey got money for all the K she took in college, well it paints a certain picture.

 

[DeviantFun]

M "He was graduating and got a contract to play professional football and wanted to party."
M "I introduced them and I guess Lacey decided to go through with it."

So we have Mia admiting that she introduced Lacey to someone who wanted to "party".

Tha is for sure, she introduced her to most if not all her partners, there were probably randos during the late stage parties.

L "I was a cheap party favor."

"She wasn't a party favor in college because all those men had control over her."

If Lacey is the favor or sex with her is, someone is making that favor to others, and we know that Mia is the one directing Lacey sex challenges, she wanting to please Mia was done by fucking others.

MC "All the boys."
MC "They all had sex with my Lacey."
MC "Isn't that super funny?"
MC "I think it is."
MC "Super so funny."
MC "And honey... and money... and some other rhyming word..."

Sure, MC is drunk but its a weird moment to get a random thought about money.

She was invited to the parties and then Mia pushed her to do various stuff, so I guess she was the party favour of the organizer?

Eh the delirious discussion from the MC....I wouldn't give that too much weight, he would have to be in the know about the money transaction and I bet we would see him having a fit about it.

MC "All that means is that maybe you won't dress like a whore for nothing."
MC "But you wouldn't think twice about doing it for someone who offers you something you want."
MC "You think that makes it better?"
L "God dammit. You're right."
L "You're completely right."
L "But I never wore those clothes to be a sleazy prostitute who wants guys to ogle me."
L "So please don't think that."
L "You can be angry and that's okay."
L "But please don't think I was ever trying to revert to who I was in college."
L "I will never, I swear on my life, ever go back to being that version of me."


They are talking about she dressing like a whore if it serves her, but Lacey choice of words are interesting. Instead of defending herself she kind of linked that to her past. And that mention of her "version" is strange and out of place.

I know the conversation very well, yes it does show Lacey's inclination to do stuff that benefits her no matter the moral implication.
We can also see it in the Bastion event, especiallly with al the compliments (which have a pretty weak explanation).

Ok, its getting late and i still have to dinner and go, if still interested i will continue to check the script later. Anyway if what you want is a direct line that says Mia was pimping Lacey, there's no such line.

But if we get in mind the whole thing, Mia introducing people to Lacey (i think that there was a line that said that Mia got some benefits or favors for doing that), Lacey wanting to please Mia, and we add in consideration how the hell Lacey got money for all the K she took in college, well it paints a certain picture.

Sure no problem, I will try to look for it, because my wild theory at some point toi expllain how Lacey could afford all the drugs was getting some money, tbh it would even be better as an explanation, surely better than I did what I did because I did it.

And obviously the drugs could have been offered at the party, something like, if you want Lacey to come to your party have X grams ok K ready, I remember Silken mentioned being able to do that (in a deleted comment probably).

And yes one of Lacey's motivation, a big one imo, was pleasing her pimp, all the while the pimp didn't really give a fuck what she was going through:

L "But the girl 'you' think I was, never existed."
L "You invented her in your head."
L "Instead of assuming what I was feeling and what I was going through..."
L "you should have asked."
L "I would have told you."

Man Mia is really wrote like a shit person all around that I can't wrap my head around it sometimes.

 

[Diosvincenccio]

Quick one before i go for tonight.

She was invited to the parties and then Mia pushed her to do various stuff, so I guess she was the party favour of the organizer?

So instead of the pimp, Mia was the Madam? The clients are the party goers, thats clear, the Pimp is the organizer of the party that kind of hired/atracted Lacey to the party, and the Madam(owner/boss of the prostitute) was Mia that kind of challenged her into getting sexual at the parties. The whore is clear, Lacey itself.

Sure no problem, I will try to look for it, because my wild theory at some point toi expllain how Lacey could afford all the drugs was getting some money, tbh it would even be better as an explanation, surely better than I did what I did because I did it.

And obviously the drugs could have been offered at the party, something like, if you want Lacey to come to your party have X grams ok K ready, I remember Silken mentioned being able to do that (in a deleted comment probably).

Well she (Lacey) could have been paid in product (K) or money to buy the drugs. Mia could have been paid in money or/and most likely due the style of the story, in favors as in influence, she probably collected a lot of "I owe you one" promises.

And hell, for what we know and how Mia is, Lacey could have been unaware of all this.

 

[Lady Lydia]

Eh, saying that I don't pay enough attention to this VN is sort of a wild thing to say (jk jk).
Don't worry I do pay attention, actually, an incredible amount of attention.

ok I guess I have to pull out the usual dialogue analysis:

M "(sobbing) Then he would love me the way he loves you."
M "I want to know what that feels like."
M "He could have all of us."
M "Me, Anna, all of us."
M "We'd share him."
M "I don't mind."
L "What am I supposed to do in this grand scheme of yours?"
L "Did you want me to go back to being a drug-addicted whore?"
M "NO!"
L "Then what?"
M "I wanted you to be like the rest of us."
M "To be on the outside looking in."
M "We have to beg for the scraps you leave behind."
M "To get a few minutes of his time here and there."
M "I want more. Anna wants more."

So she is talking about her own happiness (and the rest of the crew), in no way shape or form she is considering either MC or Lacey's feelings.

MC do NOT want to have multiple partners on the level of Lacey, Lacey doesn't want to be sidelined or looking from the outside.
If you think that Lacey would be happy with this and not go through with it just to have some sort of atonement and giving back to MC (do I have to pull records here too?) you are severely mistaken.
People confuse the fact that Lacey is willing to let MC have experiences with the fact that she is perfectly happy with that arrangement.

Also, MC is giving them crumbs because that is what HE wants to do, because HE wants to be with Lacey way more than he wants to be with her fucking pimp or Anna or ANYONE else.

Not respecting this is at the same level as Lacey not respecting his feelings in several other occasions (bad Lacey!).
What makes you think that the pimp, Anna, Christine or any other crew member (yes even Kelly) can give what MC needs?

I never said that Lacey had it worst, I don't know where that comes from.
What I am saying is that Lacey is absolutely unable to handle being separated from him, she didn't contemplate she tried to kill herself several times during their time apart (six or seven iirc + Isaac), being away from MC brings out her "other side" and so on.

She needs him to function, it is the whole premise of her story...

I understand that since Lacey is the guilty part here (no one denies that), we are discounting her suffering and mental state.
If you want I can gather all the dialogue parts that try to explain the stuff she went through even before being pimped out by Mia.

I don't think she wanted to kill her outright, come on that would be too much even for the worst character in the story.

While yes the MC doesn't want a harem, I never said its what he want, its what he needs, yes Mia think of her own interest in the matter, so does everyone else, including Lacey, Lacey never stopped to think about what the MC wanted or even really needed when she cheated on him. Like I said yea Mia is shit but it doesn't mean her plan of forming a harem for the MC isn't what he need, the MC is deeply broken, clearly mentally unfit to make decisions in his own interest, instead he goes with Lacey's interest above his own far too often.

He need to learn how to let go of her, and that can't be done without offering him an alternative, but Lacey is his everything, so no singular woman is ever going to be good enough to fill in her shoes, which is why the harem solution is needed, if each of them can take even 5-10% of the intensity he focus on Lacey away at most, collectively they might drain his focus on her to a manageable level where his life and death won't entirely depend on her.

 

[DeviantFun]

While yes the MC doesn't want a harem, I never said its what he want, its what he needs, yes Mia think of her own interest in the matter, so does everyone else, including Lacey, Lacey never stopped to think about what the MC wanted or even really needed when she cheated on him. Like I said yea Mia is shit but it doesn't mean her plan of forming a harem for the MC isn't what he need, the MC is deeply broken, clearly mentally unfit to make decisions in his own interest, instead he goes with Lacey's interest above his own far too often.

Why does MC NEED a harem? He needs to be social and make the experiences he missed out on, all of this can be achieved through friendships and could not involve sex.

Sure, a bit more of sex experience could be good, but as he said he is disappointed (aside from Kelly), but why should it be an integral part of what he needs? Because it would be like getting back at Lacey? I can see it, but it is not a healthy concept. Because he is a turbo horndog that can't keep it in his pants? This seems to be the case most of the time, still I miss the connection.

Forming a harem for MC is Lacey's original plan, I don't know why after the pimp tries to break up their marriage to form whatever she had in mind for her self gain now she gets the copyright on that idea.

Yes MC puts EVERYONE, including Isaac, in front of his own interests, this doesn't mean he shouldn't have agency over his own life.
And then who would be better at making choices for him? A fucking pimp who ruined his and Lacey's life? Lacey??? The queen of fuckups? Veronica that betrayed him and Lacey for monetary gain? Anna? who spent most of the time in the game hiding important stuff from him? (people forget the tennis dates, Bastion and Jared too easily)
Kelly could be a candidate (she is easily manipulated anyway), but even then, why would you advocate for MC to stay a witless witness instead of searching for his growth?

He need to learn how to let go of her, and that can't be done without offering him an alternative, but Lacey is his everything, so no singular woman is ever going to be good enough to fill in her shoes, which is why the harem solution is needed, if each of them can take even 5-10% of the intensity he focus on Lacey away at most, collectively they might drain his focus on her to a manageable level where his life and death won't entirely depend on her.

So MC cannot learn how to stand alone, he needs to have a pussycrutch, else he will be useless? What are we saying here?

And I agree he is a victim of his own "goodness" (let's call it that, because I would use a more derogatory term) and Lacey's narcissism.
You are missing some important points in the story, first of all MC needs to grow into a self reliant man, second you cannot substitute Lacey with any of the cast aside from Kelly (this is underlined heavily and even then I have my doubts), he could have 300 women but he would still want to be with the person he loves and his love would be still as intense.
He loves the others too but in a very different way, and none of them, even combined, will ever make up for what Lacey is for him (none of them will love him like Lacey does as well probably).

He needs to change, period, the whole new experiences thing is a tool to grow, catch up on lost time and in the eyes of Lacey a way to get back at her for what she has done.
I am not saying he shouldn't do it, I am saying that the most important thing is to work on himself and stop relying on others, he needs to become a man and not, and I quote, "a fragile boy".
Letting go of his co dependance with Lacey is a personal growth issue, not a, lets see if sticking my dick in several women will heal me issue (we already know it didn't work after the free pass).

Plus the letting go part in the material is very much related to the past more than Lacey, which is the wrong concept as you need to own it, accept it and reduce the power it has over you not let go of it if you want to be an adult.
He is scarred forever, PTSD is uncurable only manageable, and until he knows the past he cannot really make any further steps, else how would he know what he needs to let go.

I see you are coming from a good place, but adult humans (MC more than others) needs to learn self reliance more than anything else, otherwise, they will never be in control of their life.

 

[Lady Lydia]

Why does MC NEED a harem? He needs to be social and make the experiences he missed out on, all of this can be achieved through friendships and could not involve sex.

Sure, a bit more of sex experience could be good, but as he said he is disappointed (aside from Kelly), but why should it be an integral part of what he needs? Because it would be like getting back at Lacey? I can see it, but it is not a healthy concept. Because he is a turbo horndog that can't keep it in his pants? This seems to be the case most of the time, still I miss the connection.

Forming a harem for MC is Lacey's original plan, I don't know why after the pimp tries to break up their marriage to form whatever she had in mind for her self gain now she gets the copyright on that idea.

Yes MC puts EVERYONE, including Isaac, in front of his own interests, this doesn't mean he shouldn't have agency over his own life.
And then who would be better at making choices for him? A fucking pimp who ruined his and Lacey's life? Lacey??? The queen of fuckups? Veronica that betrayed him and Lacey for monetary gain? Anna? who spent most of the time in the game hiding important stuff from him? (people forget the tennis dates, Bastion and Jared too easily)
Kelly could be a candidate (she is easily manipulated anyway), but even then, why would you advocate for MC to stay a witless witness instead of searching for his growth?

So MC cannot learn how to stand alone, he needs to have a pussycrutch, else he will be useless? What are we saying here?

And I agree he is a victim of his own "goodness" (let's call it that, because I would use a more derogatory term) and Lacey's narcissism.
You are missing some important points in the story, first of all MC needs to grow into a self reliant man, second you cannot substitute Lacey with any of the cast aside from Kelly (this is underlined heavily and even then I have my doubts), he could have 300 women but he would still want to be with the person he loves and his love would be still as intense.
He loves the others too but in a very different way, and none of them, even combined, will ever make up for what Lacey is for him (none of them will love him like Lacey does as well probably).

He needs to change, period, the whole new experiences thing is a tool to grow, catch up on lost time and in the eyes of Lacey a way to get back at her for what she has done.
I am not saying he shouldn't do it, I am saying that the most important thing is to work on himself and stop relying on others, he needs to become a man and not, and I quote, "a fragile boy".
Letting go of his co dependance with Lacey is a personal growth issue, not a, lets see if sticking my dick in several women will heal me issue (we already know it didn't work after the free pass).

Plus the letting go part in the material is very much related to the past more than Lacey, which is the wrong concept as you need to own it, accept it and reduce the power it has over you not let go of it if you want to be an adult.
He is scarred forever, PTSD is uncurable only manageable, and until he knows the past he cannot really make any further steps, else how would he know what he needs to let go.

I see you are coming from a good place, but adult humans (MC more than others) needs to learn self reliance more than anything else, otherwise, they will never be in control of their life.

Lacey's solution wasn't a harem, Lacey's solution was him sleeping around so he got to experience things like she did to some degree, without the drugs, Mia's plan is a harem, a long term group relationship, unlike Lacey's plan which was a short term period of debauchery. Lacey wanted to basically enable him to experience what he never was able to experience, while she had been sleeping around, so that she can feel less bad about the fact she abandoned him and he nearly broke to death without her. Mia's plan is at least to some degree done in his long term interest, since she by now has a deep attachment to him that mean she need him around for her own emotional well being.

While yes I agree self-reliance is something that need to be learned, you missed the point that isn't a problem for him, he was self-reliant as a child, he needed to be self-reliant to enable Lacey to rely on him, its what broke him, he had a massive set of rules organize to provide what she needed. Right now his problem isn't self-reliance, its an insanely deep emotional dependency / attachment, and its such a mental issue so deep their is nothing that can be done by him alone to solve this, he'd need to be interned for years of intense therapy to fix this, but if you don't want him in a psychiatric institute for years, you need to find a solution that allow him to as I said before ween off his deep emotional dependency / attachment on Lacey, and the only way to do that is to provide an alternative.

Lacey used drugs in college to alleviate on her own end of the issue, and it didn't work, just partially alleviate her issues, would you rather the MC did the same? Go on months if not years of ketamine binge to try to alleviate his woes and still fail? He need something more concrete to pull himself together, he does need something to cling to else than Lacey. Yes working thru his issues naturally would be better, but it would take him easily a decade of therapy. And that is the core of the issue, its a Hell of a long time to hope nothing happen to Lacey or she doesn't do something unfathomably stupid again. So its why I support Mia's solution, its not the best but if the option is to let the boat sink and hope for the best or provide a life jacket for him to float if the boat sink, its better to provide that life jacket, would it be better if he could build himself a raft? Sure, but its going to take way too long to be viable in this case and it depend to a significant degree on 'hope for the best' rather than do something about it to help.

 

[DeviantFun]

Lacey's solution wasn't a harem, Lacey's solution was him sleeping around so he got to experience things like she did to some degree, without the drugs, Mia's plan is a harem, a long term group relationship, unlike Lacey's plan which was a short term period of debauchery. Lacey wanted to basically enable him to experience what he never was able to experience, while she had been sleeping around, so that she can feel less bad about the fact she abandoned him and he nearly broke to death without her. Mia's plan is at least to some degree done in his long term interest, since she by now has a deep attachment to him that mean she need him around for her own emotional well being.

No, just no.

A "WHAT?!"
A "But... you said..."
A "You said you wanted him to experience beautiful new things."
A "You said... he would be able to... love me."
A "But it was all so you could fuck other men behind his back?"
A "It was never about Mia or me."
A "It was only about you..."
A "You lied to me Lacey."

This is a clear cut indication that there would be a relationship, and moreover:

L "And if you let him, he'll make you his cute little plaything."
L "You want that too, don't you?"
JM "Yes. (breathing) I want that."
L "Then I give you my permission to make him happy."
L "But you need to be obedient and do as he says."

There is also the conversation with Kelly and what Lacey then explains to Mia:

L "Mia."
L "Sit down."
L "We're going to talk."
L "Actually, I'm going to talk. You're going to listen."
L "I already know how to solve all of this."
L "Not a plot. Not a scheme."
L "A plan."

And aside from that, why all the emotional jealousy then when a girl that is not in the mix is involved?
There is one major difference in the two plans, Mia wants what is good for herself, disguising it as caring for MC (else she wouldn't have dropped the messages, kept on mentioning Lacey's past and shown the last lesson, which was supposed to be nice) and break them off/sideline Lacey, Lacey wants MC to have his fun with the girls: date them, fuck them whatever, but wants to stilll be in the center of the picture (I.e. MC attention and love) while relinquishing most of the control to MC, as long as she feels safe.

I guess you got a bit single tracked when Lacey mentions that she wants MC to date for a while in act 1, as you can see from the dialogues act 2 is rather different.

While yes I agree self-reliance is something that need to be learned, you missed the point that isn't a problem for him, he was self-reliant as a child, he needed to be self-reliant to enable Lacey to rely on him, its what broke him, he had a massive set of rules organize to provide what she needed. Right now his problem isn't self-reliance, its an insanely deep emotional dependency / attachment, and its such a mental issue so deep their is nothing that can be done by him alone to solve this, he'd need to be interned for years of intense therapy to fix this, but if you don't want him in a psychiatric institute for years, you need to find a solution that allow him to as I said before ween off his deep emotional dependency / attachment on Lacey, and the only way to do that is to provide an alternative.

You are hyperfixating on a single issue which is only a part of the problem.
Actually you are hyperfixating on a single solution, you decided that it is harem or bust.

MC is a victim of narcissism since childhood and after being abandoned has self worth issues, he needs to feel needed and I believe this issue predates that, he is going out of his way to help everyone, he helps Isaac, he felt bad about Jared.

How is self reliance and the ability to stand alone disconnected from being able to not be dependant from Lacey?
Why would MC substitute his dependency on Lacey to dependency on several women?

There are plenty of things that can be done alone, but the story is implicating that MC will get into therapy and get real help.
And again, I am fine with MC dating other women to build some confidence (when he is shown to have low confidence with women is a mystery, but I am quoting the material) and self worth back, but he needs to be self reliant and decisive instead of a witness, fucking some FWB or being poly is not a serious answer to these issues.

Not considering that the issues (such as the PTSD) MC has are all related to abandonement and betrayal trauma more than co dependency.

Lacey used drugs in college to alleviate on her own end of the issue, and it didn't work, just partially alleviate her issues, would you rather the MC did the same? Go on months if not years of ketamine binge to try to alleviate his woes and still fail? He need something more concrete to pull himself together, he does need something to cling to else than Lacey. Yes working thru his issues naturally would be better, but it would take him easily a decade of therapy. And that is the core of the issue, its a Hell of a long time to hope nothing happen to Lacey or she doesn't do something unfathomably stupid again. So its why I support Mia's solution, its not the best but if the option is to let the boat sink and hope for the best or provide a life jacket for him to float if the boat sink, its better to provide that life jacket, would it be better if he could build himself a raft? Sure, but its going to take way too long to be viable in this case and it depend to a significant degree on 'hope for the best' rather than do something about it to help.

Wait, you are starting to not make any sense, who said that MC had to go and abuse drugs? I am not sure if you are answering to me or to someone else now.
If it was meant for me, please do not invent things to argue your point, it just creates noise in the conversation.

Now, what you are describing is not Mia solution, Mia solution was to break Lacey and MC up and have Lacey look from the outside I even posted the convo I think, she even brings drugs for Lacey to alleviate the pain of the breakup (great plan, drugs to a recovering addict).

But there is another conversation later between Lacey and MC that underlines that Mia's plan was to break them up, I didn't want to go and pull it out but there it is:

MC "How bad was it?"
L "It was pretty awful."
MC "Did she succeed in whatever she was trying to do?"
L "I really don't know." <-- Lacey doesn't know if MC will leave her now
MC "Did she tell you that she came to see me?"
L "Yes, but she was tight-lipped about most of it."
L "..."
L "She did show me the pictures that she shared with you."
MC "Yeah, that was..."
MC "(sigh)"
MC "She said some terrible things to me."
MC "Made me question some things."

L "By all means, Mia's plan should have worked." <-- MC leaving Lacey after he discovers that she enjoyed college
L "You should have stormed in here and announced I'm the worst human being ever and then left me."
L "But here we are... Mia's plan failing miserably."
L "Because you decided that it's your problem that you hurt so much."
L "Mia would be fucking livid knowing how her plan fell apart, because you're too damaged for it to work."

Or you mean the original plan from Mia? To have Kelly ready as a substitute (disgusting)?
All of Mia's plans are without Lacey in the picture or at best extremely sidelined.

Damn even Lacey understood the "You're planting a garden and that takes time and patience and a lot of love.":

M "But Lacey says you don't like big changes."
M "That we need to go very slowly."
M "So, that we don't fuck you up."

You are talking like a Lacey in act 1, when she pushes MC to accept to be cucked:

MC "If I say no. What will you do?"
L "Then I guess... I guess we'll just live in the world we're in now."
L "You'll hold on to your jealousy."
L "I'll keep praying that you'll stop hurting."
L "And we'll just do this the hard way."
L "Time and lots of it."

That is exactly what MC needs: therapy, time and support so he can be WHOLE (I use this word precisely for a reason, iykyk) again.

And for the third or fourth time, I am fine with MC dating and getting some experience, mostly because it will probably help with the feeling of control over his life, but without the aforementioned therapy and time to reach self reliance and self worth it will just be a stopgap because the main issues stem from the past and the betrayals (I wanted to post all the PTSD episodes but I am too tired now), even if MC wasn't that co dependant towards Lacey (which is an undeniable issue), those things would have hurt him immensely.

Oh and

he needed to be self-reliant to enable Lacey to rely on him

is simply not true, many people rely on MC, Isaac included and MC atm is not self-reliant at all.

Last point: if by dependency from Lacey you mean stop being a victim of her narcissistic tendencies, the only answer we have are therapy and Dianne.

 

[Lady Lydia]

No, just no.

A "WHAT?!"
A "But... you said..."
A "You said you wanted him to experience beautiful new things."
A "You said... he would be able to... love me."
A "But it was all so you could fuck other men behind his back?"
A "It was never about Mia or me."
A "It was only about you..."
A "You lied to me Lacey."

This is a clear cut indication that there would be a relationship, and moreover:

L "And if you let him, he'll make you his cute little plaything."
L "You want that too, don't you?"
JM "Yes. (breathing) I want that."
L "Then I give you my permission to make him happy."
L "But you need to be obedient and do as he says."

There is also the conversation with Kelly and what Lacey then explains to Mia:

L "Mia."
L "Sit down."
L "We're going to talk."
L "Actually, I'm going to talk. You're going to listen."
L "I already know how to solve all of this."
L "Not a plot. Not a scheme."
L "A plan."

And aside from that, why all the emotional jealousy then when a girl that is not in the mix is involved?
There is one major difference in the two plans, Mia wants what is good for herself, disguising it as caring for MC (else she wouldn't have dropped the messages, kept on mentioning Lacey's past and shown the last lesson, which was supposed to be nice) and break them off/sideline Lacey, Lacey wants MC to have his fun with the girls: date them, fuck them whatever, but wants to stilll be in the center of the picture (I.e. MC attention and love) while relinquishing most of the control to MC, as long as she feels safe.

I guess you got a bit single tracked when Lacey mentions that she wants MC to date for a while in act 1, as you can see from the dialogues act 2 is rather different.



You are hyperfixating on a single issue which is only a part of the problem.
Actually you are hyperfixating on a single solution, you decided that it is harem or bust.

MC is a victim of narcissism since childhood and after being abandoned has self worth issues, he needs to feel needed and I believe this issue predates that, he is going out of his way to help everyone, he helps Isaac, he felt bad about Jared.

How is self reliance and the ability to stand alone disconnected from being able to not be dependant from Lacey?
Why would MC substitute his dependency on Lacey to dependency on several women?

There are plenty of things that can be done alone, but the story is implicating that MC will get into therapy and get real help.
And again, I am fine with MC dating other women to build some confidence (when he is shown to have low confidence with women is a mystery, but I am quoting the material) and self worth back, but he needs to be self reliant and decisive instead of a witness, fucking some FWB or being poly is not a serious answer to these issues.

Not considering that the issues (such as the PTSD) MC has are all related to abandonement and betrayal trauma more than co dependency.



Wait, you are starting to not make any sense, who said that MC had to go and abuse drugs? I am not sure if you are answering to me or to someone else now.
If it was meant for me, please do not invent things to argue your point, it just creates noise in the conversation.

Now, what you are describing is not Mia solution, Mia solution was to break Lacey and MC up and have Lacey look from the outside I even posted the convo I think, she even brings drugs for Lacey to alleviate the pain of the breakup (great plan, drugs to a recovering addict).

But there is another conversation later between Lacey and MC that underlines that Mia's plan was to break them up, I didn't want to go and pull it out but there it is:

MC "How bad was it?"
L "It was pretty awful."
MC "Did she succeed in whatever she was trying to do?"
L "I really don't know." <-- Lacey doesn't know if MC will leave her now
MC "Did she tell you that she came to see me?"
L "Yes, but she was tight-lipped about most of it."
L "..."
L "She did show me the pictures that she shared with you."
MC "Yeah, that was..."
MC "(sigh)"
MC "She said some terrible things to me."
MC "Made me question some things."

L "By all means, Mia's plan should have worked." <-- MC leaving Lacey after he discovers that she enjoyed college
L "You should have stormed in here and announced I'm the worst human being ever and then left me."
L "But here we are... Mia's plan failing miserably."
L "Because you decided that it's your problem that you hurt so much."
L "Mia would be fucking livid knowing how her plan fell apart, because you're too damaged for it to work."

Or you mean the original plan from Mia? To have Kelly ready as a substitute (disgusting)?
All of Mia's plans are without Lacey in the picture or at best extremely sidelined.

Damn even Lacey understood the "You're planting a garden and that takes time and patience and a lot of love.":

M "But Lacey says you don't like big changes."
M "That we need to go very slowly."
M "So, that we don't fuck you up."

You are talking like a Lacey in act 1, when she pushes MC to accept to be cucked:

MC "If I say no. What will you do?"
L "Then I guess... I guess we'll just live in the world we're in now."
L "You'll hold on to your jealousy."
L "I'll keep praying that you'll stop hurting."
L "And we'll just do this the hard way."
L "Time and lots of it."

That is exactly what MC needs: therapy, time and support so he can be WHOLE (I use this word precisely for a reason, iykyk) again.

And for the third or fourth time, I am fine with MC dating and getting some experience, mostly because it will probably help with the feeling of control over his life, but without the aforementioned therapy and time to reach self reliance and self worth it will just be a stopgap because the main issues stem from the past and the betrayals (I wanted to post all the PTSD episodes but I am too tired now), even if MC wasn't that co dependant towards Lacey (which is an undeniable issue), those things would have hurt him immensely.

Oh and is simply not true, many people rely on MC, Isaac included and MC atm is not self-reliant at all.

Last point: if by dependency from Lacey you mean stop being a victim of her narcissistic tendencies, the only answer we have are therapy and Dianne.

Like I said yes therapy is the best solution but again you don't address what do you do in the meanwhile several years of therapy its going to take. The MC will literally commit suicide if anything happen to her or because of her, do you have any solution to deal with this problem in the short to medium term, because therapy is only going to work on a very long term basis. Yes it seem to you I hyper focus on the harem thing, but what I hyper focus on is he need help that will work in the short term, not something which will be solved over a decade + of therapy.

Yes you consider the harem a pussycrutch, but guess what, we use crutches for a reason, do you not give a crutch to someone with a broken leg? Yes you do, the MC has a broken heart so to speak, so he need an emotional crutch, its why the harem is needed, its a short term solution that could enable him to survive long enough to be properly healed. I don't say its the perfect lifelong solution, but its the solution that can start working now, and help support him long enough for him to learn how to walk on his own. Like I said Lacey is his everything, so he need a crutch of equivalent size, one that no singular woman else can provide because he'll never have the attachment to any singular one of them that he has with Lacey, so you compensate one high value crutch with several lower value crutches.

You keep complaining about the solution provided but you don't provide a viable alternative in the short term. Give me a short term solution else than harem that would be viable and I'll support to it, but therapy isn't short term its very long term before it actually solve issues, if you think therapy works in the short term, acquire a significant mental issue and go see a psychologist and see how long it will take for them to fix it, none of the girls involved in the game can solo solve this issue, not Kelly which was Mia's choice for an alternative or Dianne that appeared in the story. So what else? What do you do when you are dealing with someone like the MC to help him in the short term?

 

[Diosvincenccio]

Nice heated argument you have there, allow me to intrude

While yes the MC doesn't want a harem, I never said its what he want, its what he needs

Isnt that the exact rationale of Lacey. Sure MC thinks this or that, but of course i know better. C'mon lets respect the dudes wishes for once. Even through i want him to go with the sort of harem thing, it has to be on his own accord.

Lacey never stopped to think about what the MC wanted or even really needed when she cheated on him.

On that i completely agree.

if each of them can take even 5-10% of the intensity he focus on Lacey away at most, collectively they might drain his focus on her to a manageable level where his life and death won't entirely depend on her.

Feelings arent a percentage. If he loves someone, he would be all in with all of them, its his way of loving. The only thing you would get is a MC that its emotionally exhausted a lot faster. That kind of draining would be detrimental to his mental health.

Forming a harem for MC is Lacey's original plan, I don't know why after the pimp tries to break up their marriage to form whatever she had in mind for her self gain now she gets the copyright on that idea.

Not the original plan. That one was "accept that any previous dick in me meant nothing". More of an emergency revised one after fucking up her teaching lesson (Layered harem with an alpha queen or bee as its said at the top instead of the traditional equal power for the females one)

Anyway, you are right, MC needs agency, confidence and most important than all self steem and self worth. Sex with other could help (and we want to see it because after such abuse the dude needs something good on his life) but its technically not necesary.

Anyway, its not happening if every time he expresses his feelings they are chasticed or shut down by his own circle of friends.

You are missing some important points in the story, first of all MC needs to grow into a self reliant man, second you cannot substitute Lacey with any of the cast aside from Kelly (this is underlined heavily and even then I have my doubts)

And even Kelly wasnt exactly a replacement in the beginning, more of a threat to make Lacey see MC side of the story. To keep her on check. To make her feel the fear and jealousy that the MC feels. From Mia perspective, Kelly involvement was more for Lacey than for the MC. (In the beginning) Now, after Lacey fuck ups, she did "upgrade" Kelly role because MC being hurt by Lacey actions did become a reality.

Mia's plan is at least to some degree done in his long term interest

More of in her own (and other girls except Lacey) interest. The fact that it would somewhat benefit MC with his codependency issue is merely a coincidence, not the intended result. Mia harem plan is egoistic in nature, its for her. The fact that it would help MC is accidental, just as turning Lacey into a slut accidentaly helped her overcome her trauma. Mia plans are for Mia interest.

Lacey's past and shown the last lesson

I guess Mia has a diferent version of nice or something, i mean, for her these last lesson shows that Lacey loved all that and gives her a good feeling. To MC it shows the same but its another piece of the torture.

fucking some FWB or being poly is not a serious answer to these issues

But Lacey plan of sharing MC would be a okay-ish solution for an ending. In that everyone gets more or less what they want, the rest of the girls get to be loved by MC, Lacey gets her sacrifice for the wanted redemption and MC would feel loved no matter what and more important he would feel Lacey putting him above her desires, something he desperately wants and need.

Not considering that the issues (such as the PTSD) MC has are all related to abandonement and betrayal trauma more than co dependency.

Indeed. The codependency is more of a obstacle to the recovery of his mental health than anything else, as you say the abandonement and betrayal is the source of the pain, his codependency what stops him from adquiring a solution and managing or controlling the ptsd.

Mia solution was to break Lacey and MC up

On the initial part, sure. After she figured out both need each other to survive, more like taking Lacey down a peg into an equal position with the rest of the girls.

MC "Did she succeed in whatever she was trying to do?"
L "I really don't know." <-- Lacey doesn't know if MC will leave her now

We have argued it before. The dont know could have also been told because while the method wasent the one Mia wanted, she did get what she wanted in the end, which was MC love/attention. And Lacey did get some kind of compromise with her and apparently Anna. Somewhat also extensible to the rest of the girls.

At least on that line, i dont see anything related to MC leaving, and see it all about Mia getting Lacey to share MC with her(and the others).

On the other line, yeah, totally about MC leaving her.

Like I said yes therapy is the best solution but again you don't address what do you do in the meanwhile several years of therapy its going to take.

Hey Lacey changed a lot in like two sesions so maybe he wouldnt take years

none of the girls involved in the game can solo solve this issue

Most of the girls are actually agravating the issue by trampling on his feelings everytime that he tries to show emotions. All in the name of protecting Lacey from MC rightfull feelings.



Anyway, i would like to see the harem happening, both because i like it as a genre and because it would be good for the MC, and even can be sort of extended into a sort of ending for the game. My only problem with it is Lacey secondary intentions for it to happen, while she is mainly doing it for the MC sake, she still wants to use it to change the MC for her own selfishness, to reduce her blame. Convince him, not manipulate him into it. Let her do the sacrifice for his sake purelly without any expectation of forgiveness of her past mistakes and i would see it a lot better.

And again, sorry to intrude but it looked like an animated discussion.

 

[Lady Lydia]

Nice heated argument you have there, allow me to intrude

Isnt that the exact rationale of Lacey. Sure MC thinks this or that, but of course i know better. C'mon lets respect the dudes wishes for once. Even through i want him to go with the sort of harem thing, it has to be on his own accord.

On that i completely agree.

Feelings arent a percentage. If he loves someone, he would be all in with all of them, its his way of loving. The only thing you would get is a MC that its emotionally exhausted a lot faster. That kind of draining would be detrimental to his mental health.

Not the original plan. That one was "accept that any previous dick in me meant nothing". More of an emergency revised one after fucking up her teaching lesson (Layered harem with an alpha queen or bee as its said at the top instead of the traditional equal power for the females one)

Anyway, you are right, MC needs agency, confidence and most important than all self steem and self worth. Sex with other could help (and we want to see it because after such abuse the dude needs something good on his life) but its technically not necesary.

Anyway, its not happening if every time he expresses his feelings they are chasticed or shut down by his own circle of friends.

And even Kelly wasnt exactly a replacement in the beginning, more of a threat to make Lacey see MC side of the story. To keep her on check. To make her feel the fear and jealousy that the MC feels. From Mia perspective, Kelly involvement was more for Lacey than for the MC. (In the beginning) Now, after Lacey fuck ups, she did "upgrade" Kelly role because MC being hurt by Lacey actions did become a reality.

More of in her own (and other girls except Lacey) interest. The fact that it would somewhat benefit MC with his codependency issue is merely a coincidence, not the intended result. Mia harem plan is egoistic in nature, its for her. The fact that it would help MC is accidental, just as turning Lacey into a slut accidentaly helped her overcome her trauma. Mia plans are for Mia interest.

I guess Mia has a diferent version of nice or something, i mean, for her these last lesson shows that Lacey loved all that and gives her a good feeling. To MC it shows the same but its another piece of the torture.

But Lacey plan of sharing MC would be a okay-ish solution for an ending. In that everyone gets more or less what they want, the rest of the girls get to be loved by MC, Lacey gets her sacrifice for the wanted redemption and MC would feel loved no matter what and more important he would feel Lacey putting him above her desires, something he desperately wants and need.

Indeed. The codependency is more of a obstacle to the recovery of his mental health than anything else, as you say the abandonement and betrayal is the source of the pain, his codependency what stops him from adquiring a solution and managing or controlling the ptsd.

On the initial part, sure. After she figured out both need each other to survive, more like taking Lacey down a peg into an equal position with the rest of the girls.

We have argued it before. The dont know could have also been told because while the method wasent the one Mia wanted, she did get what she wanted in the end, which was MC love/attention. And Lacey did get some kind of compromise with her and apparently Anna. Somewhat also extensible to the rest of the girls.

At least on that line, i dont see anything related to MC leaving, and see it all about Mia getting Lacey to share MC with her(and the others).

On the other line, yeah, totally about MC leaving her.

Hey Lacey changed a lot in like two sesions so maybe he wouldnt take years

Most of the girls are actually agravating the issue by trampling on his feelings everytime that he tries to show emotions. All in the name of protecting Lacey from MC rightfull feelings.

Anyway, i would like to see the harem happening, both because i like it as a genre and because it would be good for the MC, and even can be sort of extended into a sort of ending for the game. My only problem with it is Lacey secondary intentions for it to happen, while she is mainly doing it for the MC sake, she still wants to use it to change the MC for her own selfishness, to reduce her blame. Convince him, not manipulate him into it. Let her do the sacrifice for his sake purelly without any expectation of forgiveness of her past mistakes and i would see it a lot better.

And again, sorry to intrude but it looked like an animated discussion.

While in theory I do agree with respecting the dude's wishes, the problem is like most insane people he doesn't acknowledge his problems and he sure as Hell isn't going to acknowledge the proper solution. Therapy would help but he'd buck at getting therapy, just being left alone with Lacey proved to not work, its what they had before Mia talked to him about Lacey's college day and what do we learn? She had been stripping for Jared's parties and doing double dates with him, so obviously leaving him alone with her isn't a solution, so what leave him to stew due to Lacey's stupidity until he kill himself? Is that worth 'letting him do what he wants'? At one point an individual can be declared inept at taking decisions, and the MC sadly is there, he is inept at taking decisions in his own interest, so sadly he need someone to take said decisions until he cease to be inept. While yes its one of his problems, the problem he has right now is those taking said decisions don't possess the right perspective or are themselves also inept at taking decision like Lacy. We however are removed far enough from the problems to be able to get a proper perspective on the subject, so our perspective on what the MC need is more reliable.

 

[DeviantFun]

Like I said yes therapy is the best solution but again you don't address what do you do in the meanwhile several years of therapy its going to take. The MC will literally commit suicide if anything happen to her or because of her, do you have any solution to deal with this problem in the short to medium term, because therapy is only going to work on a very long term basis. Yes it seem to you I hyper focus on the harem thing, but what I hyper focus on is he need help that will work in the short term, not something which will be solved over a decade + of therapy.

The solution would be to stop making things up that are not in the original material, MC has already shown that he would rather leave than commit suicide, firstly at the Bastion cliff event and then at the fake video event.

If we get another situation in act 3 4 5 or whatever, we can come back and revisit the issue, but atm MC has shown to be relatively free of suicidal tendencies.

Yes you consider the harem a pussycrutch, but guess what, we use crutches for a reason, do you not give a crutch to someone with a broken leg? Yes you do, the MC has a broken heart so to speak, so he need an emotional crutch, its why the harem is needed, its a short term solution that could enable him to survive long enough to be properly healed. I don't say its the perfect lifelong solution, but its the solution that can start working now, and help support him long enough for him to learn how to walk on his own. Like I said Lacey is his everything, so he need a crutch of equivalent size, one that no singular woman else can provide because he'll never have the attachment to any singular one of them that he has with Lacey, so you compensate one high value crutch with several lower value crutches.

And why a harem is needed as a crutch? Why not friendship and support or even a single girl like Kelly?
And I am not even against him dating the other girls, it is just that you are saying Harem is the solution without considering any sort of aspect.

Aside from the fact that you are giving an arm cast to a guy with a broken leg, people that live with crutches, limp for life.
But you are now arguing your own personal opinion more than what it is in the material, because it has been pointed out several times how Lacey's past and betrayals are the sore spot, nutting in a number of other girls doesn't seem a great "crutch" anyway.

In Mc words:
MC "I had sex with Anna."
MC "And it wasn't too bad."
MC "Man, I wanted to..."
MC "I don't know."
L "You wanted me to feel like it was a big earth shattering event?"
MC "Yes. Because I'm so damn petty."
MC "But it really wasn't."
MC "It was nice."
MC "She really put her all into it."
MC "But... she definitely wasn't you."

He needs relationships and support, it doesn't matter if he fucks 1 or 1000 girls, in fact one could argue that he leaving with Kelly and leave everyone and everything behind could be a superior solution for MC.

You keep complaining about the solution provided but you don't provide a viable alternative in the short term. Give me a short term solution else than harem that would be viable and I'll support to it, but therapy isn't short term its very long term before it actually solve issues, if you think therapy works in the short term, acquire a significant mental issue and go see a psychologist and see how long it will take for them to fix it, none of the girls involved in the game can solo solve this issue, not Kelly which was Mia's choice for an alternative or Dianne that appeared in the story. So what else? What do you do when you are dealing with someone like the MC to help him in the short term?

Are you being possessed by Lacey's spirit or something?

Why are you looking for a short term solution? Why are you looking for a shortcut to solve an issue? Did you get the message that the game gave you about taking shortcuts into solving complex problems?

It is lovely when people spew stuff and make assumptions about the folks they are discussing with.

MC needs to grow step by step, day by day, LIKE A GARDEN.

Not the original plan. That one was "accept that any previous dick in me meant nothing". More of an emergency revised one after fucking up her teaching lesson (Layered harem with an alpha queen or bee as its said at the top instead of the traditional equal power for the females one)

Anyway, you are right, MC needs agency, confidence and most important than all self steem and self worth. Sex with other could help (and we want to see it because after such abuse the dude needs something good on his life) but its technically not necesary.

I meant original as her own, like my own original patented idea, I am well aware of the several plans Lacey's made, such as seducing Jared

I said before that if he can find a way to feel that he is loved and wanted would be fine, yet you have to be careful to base your self worth on what others think or your perception of what others think, it is unhealthy as most of the time stems from trauma (when it is exaggerated like MC).

And even Kelly wasnt exactly a replacement in the beginning, more of a threat to make Lacey see MC side of the story. To keep her on check. To make her feel the fear and jealousy that the MC feels. From Mia perspective, Kelly involvement was more for Lacey than for the MC. (In the beginning) Now, after Lacey fuck ups, she did "upgrade" Kelly role because MC being hurt by Lacey actions did become a reality.

Yeah ok, for like 15 minutes, but what are we discussing here? hahah

More of in her own (and other girls except Lacey) interest. The fact that it would somewhat benefit MC with his codependency issue is merely a coincidence, not the intended result. Mia harem plan is egoistic in nature, its for her. The fact that it would help MC is accidental, just as turning Lacey into a slut accidentaly helped her overcome her trauma. Mia plans are for Mia interest.

Like what she did to Lacey thinking she was helping, Mia in the end seem to be only helping herself.
And I don't even know how much it would help with the real issue of the past and betrayal, MC would still feel these things, so it will be a long process.

But Lacey plan of sharing MC would be a okay-ish solution for an ending. In that everyone gets more or less what they want, the rest of the girls get to be loved by MC, Lacey gets her sacrifice for the wanted redemption and MC would feel loved no matter what and more important he would feel Lacey putting him above her desires, something he desperately wants and need.

Eh, sure, aside from the fact that what MC really wants has left the building quite some time ago.
If I turn on my AVN logic, sure, that is what everyone wants.

Indeed. The codependency is more of a obstacle to the recovery of his mental health than anything else, as you say the abandonement and betrayal is the source of the pain, his codependency what stops him from adquiring a solution and managing or controlling the ptsd.

I would argue that what he needs to get over first is being a victim of narcissism, but I guess we would be arguing semantics.

On the initial part, sure. After she figured out both need each other to survive, more like taking Lacey down a peg into an equal position with the rest of the girls.

No no, the plan in act 2 is clearly to break them up, she ignored the fact that Lacey needed MC to survive even after witnessing college.
She wasn't able to help then, she thinks she can help now for some reason.
MC would survive, although I would argue about his overall happiness, some things have been unlocked and now we have a couple of other pieces on the board.

We have argued it before. The dont know could have also been told because while the method wasent the one Mia wanted, she did get what she wanted in the end, which was MC love/attention. And Lacey did get some kind of compromise with her and apparently Anna. Somewhat also extensible to the rest of the girls.

At least on that line, i dont see anything related to MC leaving, and see it all about Mia getting Lacey to share MC with her(and the others).

On the other line, yeah, totally about MC leaving her.

I mean if say the second like means that, the first line has to mean the same, else it doesn't make sense.
Mia's plan was for MC to break up with Lacey and have all the other girls "soothe his battle wounds", hence the drugs.

Most of the girls are actually agravating the issue by trampling on his feelings everytime that he tries to show emotions. All in the name of protecting Lacey from MC rightfull feelings.

Sad but true.

Anyway, i would like to see the harem happening, both because i like it as a genre and because it would be good for the MC, and even can be sort of extended into a sort of ending for the game. My only problem with it is Lacey secondary intentions for it to happen, while she is mainly doing it for the MC sake, she still wants to use it to change the MC for her own selfishness, to reduce her blame. Convince him, not manipulate him into it. Let her do the sacrifice for his sake purelly without any expectation of forgiveness of her past mistakes and i would see it a lot better.

And again, sorry to intrude but it looked like an animated discussion.

There is no intrusion to apologize about.

Well at this point we have to at least give credit to Lacey for wanting to atone, as usual her methods are manipulative, but she is making an effort.
I also don't mind her plan as I said.

While in theory I do agree with respecting the dude's wishes, the problem is like most insane people he doesn't acknowledge his problems and he sure as Hell isn't going to acknowledge the proper solution. Therapy would help but he'd buck at getting therapy, just being left alone with Lacey proved to not work, its what they had before Mia talked to him about Lacey's college day and what do we learn? She had been stripping for Jared's parties and doing double dates with him, so obviously leaving him alone with her isn't a solution, so what leave him to stew due to Lacey's stupidity until he kill himself? Is that worth 'letting him do what he wants'? At one point an individual can be declared inept at taking decisions, and the MC sadly is there, he is inept at taking decisions in his own interest, so sadly he need someone to take said decisions until he cease to be inept. While yes its one of his problems, the problem he has right now is those taking said decisions don't possess the right perspective or are themselves also inept at taking decision like Lacy. We however are removed far enough from the problems to be able to get a proper perspective on the subject, so our perspective on what the MC need is more reliable.

Haha she wasn't stipping at Jared parties, or at least we have no actual proof, don't give Maviarab ideas.
You are also taking the more glaring act 1 issues and paint them like a constant, ignoring the character arcs.

Deciding that MC is unfit at making decisions is your personal viewpoint.
And I could even agree with you, but to solve that problem MC needs to be self reliant, I still miss how fucking and going on dates with his wife's pimp could help in him improving in decision making in the short or the long run.
One could say that MC needs to start making decisions by himself, as he acts more like a witness to his own life than anything else.

You said it yourself, the people trying to make decisions for him do not hold the right perspective, and since both push for a harem solution...maybe you are defeating your own point?
And for the 1000th time, I am fine with him experiencing love outside of his binary codependant and abusive relationship, I just find the way you argue your points...a bit all over the place.

 

[Maviarab]

don't give Maviarab ideas.

I swear....I have no idea what you're on about ...

 

[BigTTiger]

Let's face it you know a game is pretty good when the conversation is this heated

 

[DeviantFun]

Let's face it you know a game is pretty good when the conversation is this heated

I don't even understand how this is considered heated, it is a sharing of views, nothing more, nothing less.