VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[Diosvincenccio]

I was talking about how the text switches to Lacey when he is talking to Kelly. Lacey I don't think is even present there in that conversation right?

Her saying what she did wasn't what I was looking at.

Thats a typo/mistake of the dev, its supossed to be Kelly. Lacey is indeed not in that conversation.

 

[BigTTiger]

Okay I think I finally get it Lacey is your typical modern-day woman as in she's a cake eater wants the safety and security of a marriage but also the freedom to fuck every tom dick and harry *sarcasm* but seriously they both need professional therapy and speaking of why didn't the MC try and get her some professional help when they were little I mean he could've told someone about her abuse and got her the help she so desperately needed but eh I guess that's porn game logic for ya

 

[funnythings3785]

Okay I think I finally get it Lacey is your typical modern-day woman as in she's a cake eater wants the safety and security of a marriage but also the freedom to fuck every tom dick and harry *sarcasm* but seriously they both need professional therapy and speaking of why didn't the MC try and get her some professional help when they were little I mean he could've told someone about her abuse and got her the help she so desperately needed but eh I guess that's porn game logic for ya

There is more to it which is why the story isn't just typical NTR fodder.

She has a abusive past childhood, and due to that has caused an abusive past on the MC. Her solution to find the means to be intimate with the MC while her fault (ie leaving, participating with Mia's instructions), the bulk of this is on Mia who also abused Lacey under the claim she is helping her find intimacy with the MC.

Mia takes advantage of Lacey's abuse, her drug use, and her need to be with the MC and uses it through a jealous path of destruction of Lacey (and ultimately the MC).

So now, Lacey wakes up from her college debauchery, realizes why she left in the first place, has "technically" solved her problem with intimacy, but due to Mia, now carries a whole slew of other abusive conditions from college and now has to deal with the consequences of it and what she has done to the MC.

Nobody is innocent, not even the MC here... but I would say he is the least guilty as the base of his abusive state was created by being a caring kid who became the victim of a troubled and abused girl who used him as a means to cling to something.

Lacey is now clinging to the MC as she did as a child. She has awakened, but she is damaged and the MC is yet again dancing to various "rules" to which he must to find some normalcy for her, all the while it is slowly damaging him, like it did in his youth.

Other than Mia (and that isn't entirely established), nobody is truly "guilty" in the clean sense of the word, there are numerous factors that are at play which create some means to apply sympathy, or some form of convoluted "understanding" to the situation.

This is why I find the story interesting, even though it is a complete train wreck. There is still some "reasonable" means that it carries on, regardless of how messed up things are.

 

[DeviantFun]

I'm still confused by this conversation. I don't know if it has been explained already.
I just hope we will not end with the "it was all a dream" cliché, discovering he was mentally ill from the beginning and Lacey it's just a projection of his mind.

I think this is a bug, I found other several situations where the actor was mixed up.

If it isn't I have no idea what it means.

 

[BigTTiger]

There is more to it which is why the story isn't just typical NTR fodder.

She has a abusive past childhood, and due to that has caused an abusive past on the MC. Her solution to find the means to be intimate with the MC while her fault (ie leaving, participating with Mia's instructions), the bulk of this is on Mia who also abused Lacey under the claim she is helping her find intimacy with the MC.

Mia takes advantage of Lacey's abuse, her drug use, and her need to be with the MC and uses it through a jealous path of destruction of Lacey (and ultimately the MC).

So now, Lacey wakes up from her college debauchery, realizes why she left in the first place, has "technically" solved her problem with intimacy, but due to Mia, now carries a whole slew of other abusive conditions from college and now has to deal with the consequences of it and what she has done to the MC.

Nobody is innocent, not even the MC here... but I would say he is the least guilty as the base of his abusive state was created by being a caring kid who became the victim of a troubled and abused girl who used him as a means to cling to something.

Lacey is now clinging to the MC as she did as a child. She has awakened, but she is damaged and the MC is yet again dancing to various "rules" to which he must to find some normalcy for her, all the while it is slowly damaging him, like it did in his youth.

Other than Mia (and that isn't entirely established), nobody is truly "guilty" in the clean sense of the word, there are numerous factors that are at play which create some means to apply sympathy, or some form of convoluted "understanding" to the situation.

This is why I find the story interesting, even though it is a complete train wreck. There is still some "reasonable" means that it carries on, regardless of how messed up things are.

Oh, I'm hooked on the story as well and I don't particularly care for NTR but I'm not going to sit here and bitch about it either the only true instance of NTR so far IMO is the "movie" night where MC was thoroughly humiliated in front of his friend's I don't count all the "lessons" from Mia as NTR since MC and Lacey weren't in a "quote" actual relationship at that time even though MC probably thinks they were but they really never established it iirc and if they were then Lacey definitely needs her as whipped and not in an S&M way.

 

[DeviantFun]

I think she downplayed this kink a lot, take the Damian cucking for example, a big part of what got wrong was because of this kink, to the point that any kind of "teaching lesson" was abandoned just to feed this jealousy kink. So yeah...definetly downplayed it.

100%, she gets wet and horny just thinking about it, to the point where she manipulates MC to do the JD a few weeks after Bastion.
We shouldn't forget how she also used his jealousy to hurt him when the 1st Will event happens, which of course gets almost ignored and has no consequences.

She is not only downplaying it, she is ignoring that it is a deal breaker for their relationship.

And about the cuckquean or Lacey sharing the MC with others, as far as we know, both Mia and Anna are already included. The whole thing has various layers, sure, its so MC experiences a "wild youth" as Lacey did, but its also a compensation to Lacey screw ups and a way to give a reward to the rest of the girls. Lacey can be a lot of things, but she is good at manipulating people into seeing only one part of the whole.

It is a bit more than that, Lacey wants him to explore life with and without her, especially without in this case.
Most of the girls are already included, aside from the obvious Anna and Mia , she already checked Jeanette and probably Veronica (sexting based).

For MC sharing Lacey with other dudes, well his possiveness should prevent that, but Lacey has this trait that allows her to twist things, if you look at the conversation where the jealosy date is proposed, its in fact Lacey who leads and guides the whole thing and makes MC believe it was his idea. So, in theory no more Lacey with other dudes, more so if she continues to realize how bad she treated MC and how damaged he got because of her, but anything is possible.

You forget how many hints we get that MC has cuck tendencies, I understand how much they do not make sense, but especially in the "bad" choices it is underlined.

Anna is the one with all the warning flaring up. She is left behind, probably be targeted by the villains, has this change of attitude, and really after all the damage Lacey caused to MC her relationship with Lacey should be gone. If she really loves MC and wants to protect him (doubtfull or it would have happened already) or thinks that she is not really trated fairly in the sharing plan, i can see her stepping into a "Mia role" and be the one causing trouble for Lacey and MC. Of course with similar intentions to Mia (Replace Lacey, or at least get more attention from MC)

I don't think Anna will go that far, I understand we witnessed severall character assassinations, but this one would be a huge one.
She might be tricked into something, maybe even kidnapped!

Just remember her attitude during MC free pass. If its with Anna she was okay, and even tried to direct MC to Mia. But Christine or Kelly, damn. Which its really contradictory. For a girl with sex means nothing emotional, she is "okay" with him fucking girls that are in love with him and who he holds some love for, meanwhile girls with barely any feelings cause her jealousy. Wouldnt be it better for her supposed teachings if he fucked girls with no feelings or attachements?

She wasn't ok with Anna, the situation required it, for Lacey 90% of the issues are solved through sex and intimacy, we see how she uses it to pacate or manipulate MC (every time MC needs to get over something OR when he does something she likes he gets wild sex, if the author didn't intend to do this I don't know but it is glaring).
MC was reallly down, solution: throw sex at him, knowing full well Anna was waiting for it.
This throws a very bad light on MC, since he has sex with her without even kissing, also knowing full well it should have been special for her, not only that, it shows that he just needs to get his balls drained to get over things, which is...sad.

Completely agree on that. She deserves some harsh bereating that leaves her fully understanding the damage she (and the rest) caused to the MC. Not just know, but undestand. That would fully start her redemption, so far even with the therapy sesions its just pretty words, because she isnt acting on this supossed regret, she knew the jealosy date was "super unhealthy" and yet she did go along with it.

But Lacey has been saying this for a long time, that she wants to be hurt by MC in that way.

She does understand to the extent that she cannot even fully grasp how much hurt her actions caused him, and it will never be possible, since the damage and actions done by her are not replicable (when Mc tries to make the example of being dressed as a MAN SLUT I always snicker at the absurdity of his statement).

Her redemption has already started, this doesn't mean her forgiveness will ever come, as any person that recognizes love and respect would and could never forgive those actions, but at lleast we can have acceptance and constant atonement.

And yes, a lot of her regrets and repentance so far have being tried to be resolved by dragging the MC to her level instead of her stepping up and doing better. In fact even the sharing plan is part of this, instead of her changing for the better, she is forcing a change in him to accept her as she is.

True but not fully, she is way far ahead of MC in understanding her own behaviour, to the point of self accusing herself of narcissism.
Mc is still stumbling around saying shit like "she's trying very hard".

So far, Lacey is the only one that has expressed the desire to change, to accept that she screwed up, to accept how hurtfull and damaging she is to the MC and wants to do and be better, but at this point in the story she hasnt really acted on that yet. But hey, compared to some of the others (Mia for example) at least she is aware, at least rationally.

True but she did a bit, her actions in act 2 are sort of proof of change.
If you discard the KW obviously, which was a total shitshow where MC was more of a pawn than a king, Mia decided all the activities, MC couldn't really choose who to sleep with nor who was invited and he didn't make a SINGLE request reasonablle or unreasonable.

Yeah, the MC is definitely not of the mindset for kinks and the like all things considered. He is straight laced, love and relationship is traditional in most ways (outside of his dealing with Lacey's "needs" which he even sees as a chore, not something he wants to do).

It would essentially be like paring a porn star with a normal family guy. It just doesn't work. One has a strong attachment to a concept that is non-existent to the other.

Lacey can't cure the MC with porn therapy, she needs to be cured by the MCs normalcy. She has to be pulled up to his level, not drug down to hers and that is why he is in constant misery.

MC is very much a dirty boy, he is discovering it now instead of his youth (he drops hints about being a cuck too).
Lacey is not trying to just have him have sex with other people, she wants him to have meaningful relationship, with dates, activities and the occasional fuck.

This is a completely different scenarios, I understand people get stuck on the sex part, but Lacey wants him to, and I quote: "experience the world without me".

In the end, as some have said, this is all the Pimps fault and Lacey's solutions are all Pimp type solutions to the problem. Everyone needs to step back and look at themselves rather than looking at the MC and thinking he needs to be fixed. Oh he has issues, sure... but his issues are legitimate reactions that normal people would have to such occurrences. He has every right to be disgusted with Lacey (and should be with her friends as well).

I mean Lacey does have her part of responsibility during college, but at least she has her mental state as a grappling hook, she is still guilty, but the fucking Pimp has been an abuser and still is.
But I agree 10000% to all the rest, the only one trying to take a look at themselves is L, and she didn't do a great job of it in act 1 until almost the end (mostly thanks to the pimp again).

They should get their shit together, try "his way", which is simply "stop being a fucking whore and try to act like a normal wife in a normal relationship".

Though, that wouldn't be as good as a train wreck story as this, so... in this case it is the loons running the loony bin.

This was suggested by the pimp actually, funny that happened after she disclosed her past when their relationship was not ready and again while Mc is having nightmares.
How that fits with the pimp wanting her to crash and burn is a mystery that will never be solved.

This. After so long of making the MC understand 'her'...she did go back near the end of Act 2 to Anna's 'plant the seeds and be patient' etc. We'll see how long it lasts. One that that contantly annoyed me though the entire thing. me, me , me....you have to understand 'me'....never once, until late in Act 2 did she ever think to try to understand him....

Yeah and do you want to see something funny? This is what MC understood:

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[Diosvincenccio]

Most of the girls are already included, aside from the obvious Anna and Mia , she already checked Jeanette and probably Veronica (sexting based).

While most of the girls are probably on Lacey aproval, the only "official" ones are Anna and Mia, going by the convo after the Little bitch video were the girls talk. It suggest that at least an agreement between the 3 of them was reached after the Mia drug incident.

I don't think Anna will go that far, I understand we witnessed severall character assassinations, but this one would be a huge one.

Then i really dont understand Anna motivations at all. Seen your loved one get that hurt and emotionally abused, and keep silent, allowing it for a weak friendship with someone that she should frankly hate or at least oppose, for all that Lacey represents to the MC, for all she did to the MC.

If she were to take Mia role of trying to brake the marriage it would serve her interest, at least while dark and antagonistic, it would be human behaviour.

Now she just stands there and serves no purpose beyond reproaching Lacey very mildly her fuck ups, which should be MC job. A couple lines of "you are a bad person, a bad wife, and hurt my loved one, i would be a better option for MC love." and thats it? Wasted potential then.

She wasn't ok with Anna, the situation required it, for Lacey 90% of the issues are solved through sex and intimacy, we see how she uses it to pacate or manipulate MC (every time MC needs to get over something OR when he does something she likes he gets wild sex, if the author didn't intend to do this I don't know but it is glaring).

I was said okay as in she was resigned it was gonna happen. Hence her reaction to it is very controlled and calm, unlike her reaction to Christine getting hired that caused MC call to almost get her reassigned, or her reaction to MC having sex with Kelly.

She may say that she is the kind of woman that believes that sex means nothing emotionally, but she only applies that to herself. When is the MC turn to have sex with others she goes fully emotional about it. And while she does have a reason for that (MC has the emotional attachment need for sex) it really causes a double standard. MC has to accept her as she is and dont feel jealousy, meanwhile she does keep that emotion. Well you know what, maybe Lacey is the one that really needs the "Damian lesson" Maybe MC and Kelly should try a redo and send her the link.

Her redemption has already started, this doesn't mean her forgiveness will ever come, as any person that recognizes love and respect would and could never forgive those actions, but at lleast we can have acceptance and constant atonement.

Does it have started? I mean, sure she has the desire to change and be better for him, and true she can only hope for acceptance of her fucked up actions and repentance by been a good wife for him in the future. The damage is already done, and nothing would change that. But has she really started that redemption? Well if she did, then she stumbled in the first stone in the road already. It seems that this change for the better its dependant on when Lacey feels like it, as soon as something to feed her kink happened, that conviction and wish for repentance was parked aside for a while.

What i fear is that we get a Lacey redemption that its as empty as Mia's regrets. That Lacey says beautifull promises of atonement and accontability in front of MC and others, but as soon as she get the chance she would follow her desires instead of actually making a sacrifice or putting effort in the relationship.

True but not fully, she is way far ahead of MC in understanding her own behaviour, to the point of self accusing herself of narcissism.

I have the believe that Mia is the true narcissistic one, and she is only copying her behaviour. Lacey narcissim is learned from Mia attitude.

This is a completely different scenarios, I understand people get stuck on the sex part, but Lacey wants him to, and I quote: "experience the world without me".

Which is weird because she has the whole "cant live without him" at least on words. And she has this convo about stalking him if he were to date someone else and all that. And yet actions kind of prove herself wrong, you know, all those years in college without giving a damn about MC and all, hell, if it wasnt for MC suicide attempt they wouldnt even be together.


Can we agree that Lacey is complicated and sometimes contradictory?

By the way, loved the commentaries.

 

[DeviantFun]

While most of the girls are probably on Lacey aproval, the only "official" ones are Anna and Mia, going by the convo after the Little bitch video were the girls talk. It suggest that at least an agreement between the 3 of them was reached after the Mia drug incident.

Yeah, the immediate ones, but Jamie, Jeanette and now Kelly all have received the Lacey talk.

Then i really dont understand Anna motivations at all. Seen your loved one get that hurt and emotionally abused, and keep silent, allowing it for a weak friendship with someone that she should frankly hate or at least oppose, for all that Lacey represents to the MC, for all she did to the MC.

If she were to take Mia role of trying to brake the marriage it would serve her interest, at least while dark and antagonistic, it would be human behaviour.

Now she just stands there and serves no purpose beyond reproaching Lacey very mildly her fuck ups, which should be MC job. A couple lines of "you are a bad person, a bad wife, and hurt my loved one, i would be a better option for MC love." and thats it? Wasted potential then.

Anna suffered a character assassination, she was already being used weirdly in act 1, look at the Lorenzo blowup and to the support she gives to Lacey's weird ideas, but in act 2 she just becomes a backstabber that doesn't care about MC wellbeing as much.

Think about it, she gets angry at the pimp for 1 week after the messages, but then is almost completely fine with the second round, not only that, she is completely unrepentant about it.
She is completely fine with the pimp jokes at the promotion party but then she is mildly annoyed, if anyone tried to ruin something the person you love is getting as a very deserved gift would you let it go like that?
The pimp should have left on her own accord, Anna should have simply kicked her out.

I get your confusion, she is still used to reprimand here and there as you can see, but it is inconsitent and devoid of lasting consequences so it looks like she gets angry for minor stuff but is passive on major stuff.
And we can't say "it is complicated" here, it is a clear cut, and we don't get to see the fallout between her and Lacey.

I was said okay as in she was resigned it was gonna happen. Hence her reaction to it is very controlled and calm, unlike her reaction to Christine getting hired that caused MC call to almost get her reassigned, or her reaction to MC having sex with Kelly.

She may say that she is the kind of woman that believes that sex means nothing emotionally, but she only applies that to herself. When is the MC turn to have sex with others she goes fully emotional about it. And while she does have a reason for that (MC has the emotional attachment need for sex) it really causes a double standard. MC has to accept her as she is and dont feel jealousy, meanwhile she does keep that emotion. Well you know what, maybe Lacey is the one that really needs the "Damian lesson" Maybe MC and Kelly should try a redo and send her the link.

As I said it is what Lacey can offer, the only way she knows to soothe MC, sex.
Maybe we can agree that she accepted it due to resignation as she didn't have any other way than to sex him up by proxy.

Lacey is absolutely hypocritical in her thinking, and it shows, she is scared that someone will steal him, yet admits that it will hurt her to see him with somebody else (quote: I might cry a little) and yet keeps on peddling this love and sex are separated concepts.
Sure love and sex are separated when you hold no love for the person you are having sex with but you still have love for your partner and this gets "betrayed", so they can never be separated fully, she is the poster lady for this concept yet keeps peddling this separation bullshit to MC.

So yes, sex and love are clearly separated for some, but it is not a two way, it is a triangle which includes the love of your partner in the mix.
It is not a double standard, it is just warped reasoning, because she acts exactly as MC does.

Don't get me started with the foolishness that "reclaiming" is, that is only what some cucks use to feel better after they get their sloppy seconds, if even that.

She does need the Bastion lesson, but more for MC benefit than for herself, for her is just atonement, for MC it might be healing.

Does it have started? I mean, sure she has the desire to change and be better for him, and true she can only hope for acceptance of her fucked up actions and repentance by been a good wife for him in the future. The damage is already done, and nothing would change that. But has she really started that redemption? Well if she did, then she stumbled in the first stone in the road already. It seems that this change for the better its dependant on when Lacey feels like it, as soon as something to feed her kink happened, that conviction and wish for repentance was parked aside for a while.

What i fear is that we get a Lacey redemption that its as empty as Mia's regrets. That Lacey says beautifull promises of atonement and accontability in front of MC and others, but as soon as she get the chance she would follow her desires instead of actually making a sacrifice or putting effort in the relationship.

It depends on where you are looking in the story, act 1 until almost the end shows a very bad side of Lacey, empty of accountability and completely self centered.
From the bathroom scene in act 1 up until act 2 Lacey is clearly improving: taking full accountability, looking at her flaws and overall trying to be a better person.

It also depends on if you consider her redemption possible, I think her redemption on a personal level can be achieved, she can be better and be the best version of herself.
Redemption towards the hurt she caused MC? Impossible on several levels, she and MC will have to accept that the damage she caused is irreparable and they will have to live with it forever.

Think about it, she could easily shift some of the blame towards the pimp, even towards her bran damage (she does it a lot in act 1), yet she doesn't in act 2, she knows she was and still is a shit person overall, I think she also realizes that the only thing she has to offer now is sex, because she cannot offer security, help or support to MC.

And she is trying to make MC happy or heal him, even if it will hurt her.
I am not saying that she is perfect now, I am saying that she started getting better.

I have the believe that Mia is the true narcissistic one, and she is only copying her behaviour. Lacey narcissim is learned from Mia attitude.

Definitely, look at Dianne dialogue when she says that narcissists blame their victims (If you didn't want it to happen, then why didn't you do something about it?), the pimp does exactly that in the drug conversation (Why did you let me destroy your life?" "Why did you let me destroy [MCFirst]'s life?).

So without searching too much, by the author self admission, Mia is a narcissist and much more, as I said often he wrote her as an absolute monster.

I have seen unhinged comments that want her to be drugged up and raped, to me that is unhinged and close to mental illness reasoning, BUT she needs to be kicked out from the group, and if Lacey really loved MC, instead of go sulking during the KW, she would have kicked her out (we can't expect MC to do anything).
On a broader outlook, Lacey should have kicked her out of her life the first time the pimp hurt MC, the second time? When the pimp brought drugs and tried to hurt MC again (to steal him nonetheless) she should have been banned.

Which is weird because she has the whole "cant live without him" at least on words. And she has this convo about stalking him if he were to date someone else and all that. And yet actions kind of prove herself wrong, you know, all those years in college without giving a damn about MC and all, hell, if it wasnt for MC suicide attempt they wouldnt even be together.


Can we agree that Lacey is complicated and sometimes contradictory?

By the way, loved the commentaries.

I can't defend Lacey in college, her actions are evil to the core, no matter the reasoning behind them (remember trauma is not a shield for blame).
What I can do is giving you the somewhat weak reasoning we get, Lacey is a different person now, at that time she was always in love with him but she was in such turmoil that she used every tool at her disposal to kill her old self and come back as a better person that could finally give MC a decent relationship.

She failed at every step and came back as a broken and very undesirable partner all the while damaging MC permanently.

She is definitely contradictory, especially about the stuff I said about the sex and love thing, or by keeping the pimp around.
Look at how much she underlines that she doesn't want the people around Mc to hurt him (she checks this with both Jamie and Jeanette) yet she keeps the person that is hurting him the most as close as possible, she doesn't even tell him to drop Isaac immediately.

Eh I even forgot one comment, where MC is a pawn that Lacey is trying to promote to a rook.
MC is definitely no king material for now.

 

[Adhdclassic]

For the MC and Laceys relationship to be properly repaired so they can move forward. They need to move away and leave everybody behind and start over. Mia and Anna are apart of a painful past as long as they are still there the reminder will stay. Like when you get shit on you sneakers the shit will always be there till you throw away the sneakers. As far as the friends that appeared after you would have to let them go because as soon as the bullshit was revealed to them they are now apart of the taint. Just my .01 cent.

 

[DeviantFun]

For the MC and Laceys relationship to be properly repaired so they can move forward. They need to move away and leave everybody behind and start over. Mia and Anna are apart of a painful past as long as they are still there the reminder will stay. Like when you get shit on you sneakers the shit will always be there till you throw away the sneakers. As far as the friends that appeared after you would have to let them go because as soon as the bullshit was revealed to them they are now apart of the taint. Just my .01 cent.

Anna was a good part of a painful past, which given the chance, could have been MC salvation.
I don't see why she should be left behind, since the reason MC and Lacey are together now...is her. (now that I think about it having the PI from augusta finding Lacey on behalf of Anna would have been better)

The pimp however...has zero redeeming qualities or actions in the whole story (sadly), so it is hard to disagree with you.

 

[Doomly]

Anna suffered a character assassination, she was already being used weirdly in act 1, look at the Lorenzo blowup and to the support she gives to Lacey's weird ideas, but in act 2 she just becomes a backstabber that doesn't care about MC wellbeing as much.

Think about it, she gets angry at the pimp for 1 week after the messages, but then is almost completely fine with the second round, not only that, she is completely unrepentant about it.
She is completely fine with the pimp jokes at the promotion party but then she is mildly annoyed, if anyone tried to ruin something the person you love is getting as a very deserved gift would you let it go like that?
The pimp should have left on her own accord, Anna should have simply kicked her out.

I get your confusion, she is still used to reprimand here and there as you can see, but it is inconsitent and devoid of lasting consequences so it looks like she gets angry for minor stuff but is passive on major stuff.
And we can't say "it is complicated" here, it is a clear cut, and we don't get to see the fallout between her and Lacey.

I think most of Anna's problem is her motivation in the story so far haven't been fleshed out completely yet with everything else going on. My take on Anna is different than most. I view her, in a macro sense without the gritty details, as the girl who still has deep feelings for the Mc and also has grown a fairly close friendship with Lacey. She understands that as long as Lacey is around she will never have a shot at having the mc for herself but doesn't want to outwardly hurt her either. She sees the damage Lacey is causing the Mc, and while she doesn't actively scheme against them or try to hurt either of them, she willfully ignores terrible ideas secretly hoping it causes them to break up so she may have her chance to heal the Mc, or at least be part of the group that does (in the mia scheme case).

Now where she goes in the story from here is yet to be revealed. She is going to have her date with the mc before the vegas trip, and likely will get more character development (the next chapter is titled learning to let go or something along those lines. Does this refer to anna possibly? The mc and lacey in some way? Letting go of the past? letting go of jealousy? Mia letting go of her past trauma and finally becomeing less horrible? Its a guess at this point). And it is highly likely Anna is the next target of the 'special k girls' scheme since she will be left behind from the vegas trip. (although one could argue that she could go to christine, kelly, or veronica ect.for help if something did happen)

Now for Lacey i agree with most of what you and dios are both saying, but Lacey is still very much a wild card. I do believe she loves the mc very much, and he truly loves her to, but the looming reveal of the mysterious 'other side' has the potentially to send this story, and peoples perception of lacey, in any number of directions. To me it is the biggest unaccounted for variable in the story so far, even more than the whole monster/special k girls plot.

So without searching too much, by the author self admission, Mia is a narcissist and much more, as I said often he wrote her as an absolute monster.

I have seen unhinged comments that want her to be drugged up and raped, to me that is unhinged and close to mental illness reasoning, BUT she needs to be kicked out from the group, and if Lacey really loved MC, instead of go sulking during the KW, she would have kicked her out (we can't expect MC to do anything).
On a broader outlook, Lacey should have kicked her out of her life the first time the pimp hurt MC, the second time? When the pimp brought drugs and tried to hurt MC again (to steal him nonetheless) she should have been banned.

Mia is absolutely a narcissist. As you know, she is the original wicked corruptor in this story. But she will never be jettisoned from the story, it would be a waste of a character from a writing perspective. She will likely very slowly become more 'humanized' as the story progresses, and more drama/reveals will likely need her involvement to facilitate it.

And to be clear, my response to the poster asking about any possible mia 'wakeup call' was just a thought experiment as to a way mia could ever get any kind of 'dose of the same medicine' kind of scenario that could fit the story. I never advocated that she should be raped or gangbanged, and very higly doubt any reprecussions mia could potentially face would ever be that severe (unless the special k plot is successful for a period of time before they are all 'saved' kinda deal, can't entirely rule that out either). I was more was thinking along the lines of mia's response to the 'impaled painfully on a giant dildo' response during KW (i do believe it said in game that the choice you choose would happen in the future), And trying to tie it to the unaccounted for purse of ketamine, possibly during the vegas trip, with Lacey tendancy to come up with terrible ideas to 'heal', and as a way she could briefly feel how Lacey felt in college. More than likely mia will have some kind of redemption arc in the future, i am just not sure at this point what form that will be. There is alot of story likely left, and it will almost certainly have plenty of shifts and misdirects as the story progresses.

After chapter 3 is released it will be interesting to see how everyones views change, shift, or are cemented. We know we will get the Anna date, the movers gathering the mc and laceys things for the move (if it is to veronicas first, then isaacs after is unclear yet), More monster/special k girls stuff, the vegas trip, anna sort of left alone, possibly Lacey's 'other side' reveal, and lots of drama/trauma along the way

 

[DeviantFun]

I think most of Anna's problem is her motivation in the story so far haven't been fleshed out completely yet with everything else going on. My take on Anna is different than most. I view her, in a macro sense without the gritty details, as the girl who still has deep feelings for the Mc and also has grown a fairly close friendship with Lacey. She understands that as long as Lacey is around she will never have a shot at having the mc for herself but doesn't want to outwardly hurt her either. She sees the damage Lacey is causing the Mc, and while she doesn't actively scheme against them or try to hurt either of them, she willfully ignores terrible ideas secretly hoping it causes them to break up so she may have her chance to heal the Mc, or at least be part of the group that does (in the mia scheme case).

Now where she goes in the story from here is yet to be revealed. She is going to have her date with the mc before the vegas trip, and likely will get more character development (the next chapter is titled learning to let go or something along those lines. Does this refer to anna possibly? The mc and lacey in some way? Letting go of the past? letting go of jealousy? Mia letting go of her past trauma and finally becomeing less horrible? Its a guess at this point). And it is highly likely Anna is the next target of the 'special k girls' scheme since she will be left behind from the vegas trip. (although one could argue that she could go to christine, kelly, or veronica ect.for help if something did happen)

Well you are seeing Anna exactly as she is presented on the surface, what doesn't fit is her being ok with plans that hurt MC she not only ignores, she does support some of the terrible ideas.

Being ok or letting the pimp plan go through hurt MC immensely, the guy tried to off himself twice, and both times she was there, if you are right she is playing with fire.
But then how can we fit this with her being protective of MC? Why does she push for MC to ask questions that will hurt him during the KW?

If you are right she would be quite the negative character and I don't think that is the case, aside from the clear point about hiding Mia's plan

Now for Lacey i agree with most of what you and dios are both saying, but Lacey is still very much a wild card. I do believe she loves the mc very much, and he truly loves her to, but the looming reveal of the mysterious 'other side' has the potentially to send this story, and peoples perception of lacey, in any number of directions. To me it is the biggest unaccounted for variable in the story so far, even more than the whole monster/special k girls plot.

The other side will be something deep within her, I often said it should not be related to sex, imo it will be a surprise but way less worse than we expect so that MC can embrace it, but I am speculating here

Mia is absolutely a narcissist. As you know, she is the original wicked corruptor in this story. But she will never be jettisoned from the story, it would be a waste of a character from a writing perspective. She will likely very slowly become more 'humanized' as the story progresses, and more drama/reveals will likely need her involvement to facilitate it.

On this I disagree, characters run their course and can be sidelined easily, if her role is the corruptor she has nothing else to do aside from dealing more damage (again?).
She is already caled in often to "solve" stuff as a deus ex machina, while doing irreversible damage 5 minutes later.
The character is a bust in its current state, make her leave and have her return way later with some growth if you really can't make do in the story without "hey I made a silicone dick behind everyone's back" (unsettling tbh)

And to be clear, my response to the poster asking about any possible mia 'wakeup call' was just a thought experiment as to a way mia could ever get any kind of 'dose of the same medicine' kind of scenario that could fit the story. I never advocated that she should be raped or gangbanged, and very higly doubt any reprecussions mia could potentially face would ever be that severe (unless the special k plot is successful for a period of time before they are all 'saved' kinda deal, can't entirely rule that out either). I was more was thinking along the lines of mia's response to the 'impaled painfully on a giant dildo' response during KW (i do believe it said in game that the choice you choose would happen in the future), And trying to tie it to the unaccounted for purse of ketamine, possibly during the vegas trip, with Lacey tendancy to come up with terrible ideas to 'heal', and as a way she could briefly feel how Lacey felt in college. More than likely mia will have some kind of redemption arc in the future, i am just not sure at this point what form that will be. There is alot of story likely left, and it will almost certainly have plenty of shifts and misdirects as the story progresses.

We are done with Lacey's fucked up ideas imo, we would be moving backwards, and while it is still possible we already went back and forth a lot in act 1, like A LOT.

After chapter 3 is released it will be interesting to see how everyones views change, shift, or are cemented. We know we will get the Anna date, the movers gathering the mc and laceys things for the move (if it is to veronicas first, then isaacs after is unclear yet), More monster/special k girls stuff, the vegas trip, anna sort of left alone, possibly Lacey's 'other side' reveal, and lots of drama/trauma along the way

I had a good nose for some events in act 2, but act 2 leaves way less hints than 1, so who knows.
One thing I am almost sure about, the girls will NEVER see any sort of consequences

 

[Lady Lydia]

For the MC and Laceys relationship to be properly repaired so they can move forward. They need to move away and leave everybody behind and start over. Mia and Anna are apart of a painful past as long as they are still there the reminder will stay. Like when you get shit on you sneakers the shit will always be there till you throw away the sneakers. As far as the friends that appeared after you would have to let them go because as soon as the bullshit was revealed to them they are now apart of the taint. Just my .01 cent.

I think the problem at this point is we are passed the point where that option would work, the point was likely before this game even began, now the reality is fixing the MC isn't going to be possible for Lacey alone, she has done far too much damage, the only chance of healing some of it is to effectively give him his power back, he need to let go of his insane attachment to her, and realistically, it might not work without other girls draining away that insane attachment, he need to learn how to live without her to be able to heal, he need to lower his dependence on her as much as humanly possible, its the only healthy way to fix this. So yea the harem option is the only solution.

As much of a shit Mia is, she has in this case figured out that much herself, her plan is the only solution for him, nothing else will ever save him. You can't cut him off Lacey without killing him, you can't leave him with her without killing him quite possibly too, the only way is to ween him off Lacey by introducing others to take the load.

As for Anna, I don't think she is really a problem here, she wants the MC? Sure, has she supported some problematic options? Yes, because realistically at this point she like everyone else around the MC are desperate, they all know Lacey is a major risk to the MC, but they know she is needed to keep him alive, so they are acting like headless hens trying to figure out how to save him from Lacey & himself, desperate people do dumb things, and desperate people faced with Lacey's stupidity are obviously not going to be able to act rationally.

Anyhow, them leaving mean they are still co-dependent, he still got cheated on, and he is insanely bound to her whatever the cost, this won't work. If she die, he commit suicide, if she ever do some stupid shit again, he is along having to shoulder that pain, he can't leave her and live, only die, its no way to live, he need another anchor, more anchors, to be able to make it whatever may come.

 

[DeviantFun]

I think the problem at this point is we are passed the point where that option would work, the point was likely before this game even began, now the reality is fixing the MC isn't going to be possible for Lacey alone, she has done far too much damage, the only chance of healing some of it is to effectively give him his power back, he need to let go of his insane attachment to her, and realistically, it might not work without other girls draining away that insane attachment, he need to learn how to live without her to be able to heal, he need to lower his dependence on her as much as humanly possible, its the only healthy way to fix this. So yea the harem option is the only solution.

The only problem that I see here, is that you are missing one crucial component: MC himself.
He is not gonna heal by stumbling through life like he did and is doing, we are talking about MC getting back control from Lacey, sure, but he needs to grab it when offered.

And having control over Lacey wouldn't fix much if he doesn't get control over his life, that is something no one can give him aside from himself, if he keeps being a witness to his own life at every turn I don't see it happening uness we are hit with some pretty hard creative narrative, which would be a shame.

Isaac wants to be friends? MC is now his friend, Lacey wants to do something crazy? lets do something crazy, Pimp is concocting a plan? Lets look at the plan from a distance and witness where it goes, Barty seems to have lost his mind? Lets hide and see what he does next.

MC never does an active thing in the whole story aside from bringing pizza to Lacey's office, which in the end was him caving in to what Lacey wanted to do.
Well I guess we can count making 2 phone calls and going to a realtor as actions too, but these are all reactions, never actions.

Getting new experiences might be a way to bridge the gap in his life, but it will never be enough to bridge the gap with what Lacey did, that ship has sailed forever the moment she decided to follow her pimp.

As much of a shit Mia is, she has in this case figured out that much herself, her plan is the only solution for him, nothing else will ever save him. You can't cut him off Lacey without killing him, you can't leave him with her without killing him quite possibly too, the only way is to ween him off Lacey by introducing others to take the load.

As for Anna, I don't think she is really a problem here, she wants the MC? Sure, has she supported some problematic options? Yes, because realistically at this point she like everyone else around the MC are desperate, they all know Lacey is a major risk to the MC, but they know she is needed to keep him alive, so they are acting like headless hens trying to figure out how to save him from Lacey & himself, desperate people do dumb things, and desperate people faced with Lacey's stupidity are obviously not going to be able to act rationally.

Anyhow, them leaving mean they are still co-dependent, he still got cheated on, and he is insanely bound to her whatever the cost, this won't work. If she die, he commit suicide, if she ever do some stupid shit again, he is along having to shoulder that pain, he can't leave her and live, only die, its no way to live, he need another anchor, more anchors, to be able to make it whatever may come.

Mia's plan was not what you are saying, she wanted him to get some distance for Lacey so that Lacey can be replaced, either by Kelly or herself (she says both depending on which dialogue you look at).
It was an evil plan through and through, no way about it, and it already failed once.
It is not really for MC benefit, but for her own.

It is also devoid of accountability, why would he stay with the person that ruined Lacey forever?
Why would he stay with the person that has such low morals that she jokes in front of him about what hurts him the most? Why would he stay with a backstabber?

If you are comparing co dependency, Lacey is in a way worse position, MC has a chance to go on, even with the shittiest support group ever seen in the history of humanity, Lacey is done, take away MC and she is simply done.
So the pimp going on with her plan is even worse than it would look on the surface.

 

[funnythings3785]

I had a good nose for some events in act 2, but act 2 leaves way less hints than 1, so who knows.
One thing I am almost sure about, the girls will NEVER see any sort of consequences

This is likely true, but there is one unforgivable direction the story can take which will ruin it for me. You already touched on some of the writing which hints at the MCs view of this, and that is the cuckolding with him saying that it "turns him on and he hates her for it".

If the story turns out where he ends up being a willing cuck more than he has, yeah... the story will end up being every other NTR game out there, it would have just taken a very long route to get there.

 

[Lady Lydia]

The only problem that I see here, is that you are missing one crucial component: MC himself.
He is not gonna heal by stumbling through life like he did and is doing, we are talking about MC getting back control from Lacey, sure, but he needs to grab it when offered.

And having control over Lacey wouldn't fix much if he doesn't get control over his life, that is something no one can give him aside from himself, if he keeps being a witness to his own life at every turn I don't see it happening uness we are hit with some pretty hard creative narrative, which would be a shame.

Isaac wants to be friends? MC is now his friend, Lacey wants to do something crazy? lets do something crazy, Pimp is concocting a plan? Lets look at the plan from a distance and witness where it goes, Barty seems to have lost his mind? Lets hide and see what he does next.

MC never does an active thing in the whole story aside from bringing pizza to Lacey's office, which in the end was him caving in to what Lacey wanted to do.
Well I guess we can count making 2 phone calls and going to a realtor as actions too, but these are all reactions, never actions.

Getting new experiences might be a way to bridge the gap in his life, but it will never be enough to bridge the gap with what Lacey did, that ship has sailed forever the moment she decided to follow her pimp.

Mia's plan was not what you are saying, she wanted him to get some distance for Lacey so that Lacey can be replaced, either by Kelly or herself (she says both depending on which dialogue you look at).
It was an evil plan through and through, no way about it, and it already failed once.
It is not really for MC benefit, but for her own.

It is also devoid of accountability, why would he stay with the person that ruined Lacey forever?
Why would he stay with the person that has such low morals that she jokes in front of him about what hurts him the most? Why would he stay with a backstabber?

If you are comparing co dependency, Lacey is in a way worse position, MC has a chance to go on, even with the shittiest support group ever seen in the history of humanity, Lacey is done, take away MC and she is simply done.
So the pimp going on with her plan is even worse than it would look on the surface.

I don't think you properly paid attention to Mia's plan, she clearly stated she had a plan to make everyone happy, and frankly the only way to achieve that is Harem, which would include Lacey, so Lacey would be fine, Kelly was Plan B, should achieving the Harem fail, get the MC a replacement for Lacey before she does something stupid enough to get him to kill himself. Yea her plan is to effectively substitute a harem of girls to his singular focus on Lacey, so he'll have support should Lacey fuck up too hard, but its not like she intend to kick Lacey out, just make it so the MC isn't 100% dependent on her.

You say as if Lacey had it worst, but the MC twice nearly committed suicide because of her, and she clearly was far more capable of handling their separation than him, Anna said how the MC basically at one point had an extreme debilitating breakdown because of Lacey before his suicide attempt. Sure Lacey might have contemplated doing that too, but the MC was literally 6ft from the edge, twice. However nothing leaves me believing that Lacey wouldn't be able to survive separation from the MC, unlike the other way around.

 

[Maviarab]

but its not like she intend to kick Lacey out

She knew very, very, very well, the high percentage chance of what would happen giving her that amount of drugs.

Don't even think for a second (or try to convince yourself otherwise) she was not fully aware of the possible consequences....and still went ahead with it. At that point, Mia neither cared or worried about Lacey being completely out of the picture or not.

 

[DeviantFun]

I don't think you properly paid attention to Mia's plan, she clearly stated she had a plan to make everyone happy, and frankly the only way to achieve that is Harem, which would include Lacey, so Lacey would be fine, Kelly was Plan B, should achieving the Harem fail, get the MC a replacement for Lacey before she does something stupid enough to get him to kill himself. Yea her plan is to effectively substitute a harem of girls to his singular focus on Lacey, so he'll have support should Lacey fuck up too hard, but its not like she intend to kick Lacey out, just make it so the MC isn't 100% dependent on her.

Eh, saying that I don't pay enough attention to this VN is sort of a wild thing to say (jk jk).
Don't worry I do pay attention, actually, an incredible amount of attention.

ok I guess I have to pull out the usual dialogue analysis:

M "(sobbing) Then he would love me the way he loves you."
M "I want to know what that feels like."
M "He could have all of us."
M "Me, Anna, all of us."
M "We'd share him."
M "I don't mind."
L "What am I supposed to do in this grand scheme of yours?"
L "Did you want me to go back to being a drug-addicted whore?"
M "NO!"
L "Then what?"
M "I wanted you to be like the rest of us."
M "To be on the outside looking in."
M "We have to beg for the scraps you leave behind."
M "To get a few minutes of his time here and there."
M "I want more. Anna wants more."

So she is talking about her own happiness (and the rest of the crew), in no way shape or form she is considering either MC or Lacey's feelings.

MC do NOT want to have multiple partners on the level of Lacey, Lacey doesn't want to be sidelined or looking from the outside.
If you think that Lacey would be happy with this and not go through with it just to have some sort of atonement and giving back to MC (do I have to pull records here too?) you are severely mistaken.
People confuse the fact that Lacey is willing to let MC have experiences with the fact that she is perfectly happy with that arrangement.

Also, MC is giving them crumbs because that is what HE wants to do, because HE wants to be with Lacey way more than he wants to be with her fucking pimp or Anna or ANYONE else.

Not respecting this is at the same level as Lacey not respecting his feelings in several other occasions (bad Lacey!).
What makes you think that the pimp, Anna, Christine or any other crew member (yes even Kelly) can give what MC needs?

You say as if Lacey had it worst, but the MC twice nearly committed suicide because of her, and she clearly was far more capable of handling their separation than him, Anna said how the MC basically at one point had an extreme debilitating breakdown because of Lacey before his suicide attempt. Sure Lacey might have contemplated doing that too, but the MC was literally 6ft from the edge, twice. However nothing leaves me believing that Lacey wouldn't be able to survive separation from the MC, unlike the other way around.

I never said that Lacey had it worst, I don't know where that comes from.
What I am saying is that Lacey is absolutely unable to handle being separated from him, she didn't contemplate she tried to kill herself several times during their time apart (six or seven iirc + Isaac), being away from MC brings out her "other side" and so on.

She needs him to function, it is the whole premise of her story...



I understand that since Lacey is the guilty part here (no one denies that), we are discounting her suffering and mental state.
If you want I can gather all the dialogue parts that try to explain the stuff she went through even before being pimped out by Mia.

She knew very, very, very well, the high percentage chance of what would happen giving her that amount of drugs.

Don't even think for a second (or try to convince yourself otherwise) she was not fully aware of the possible consequences....and still went ahead with it. At that point, Mia neither cared or worried about Lacey being completely out of the picture or not.

I don't think she wanted to kill her outright, come on that would be too much even for the worst character in the story.

 

[funnythings3785]

There are so many details in the story that it is easy to conclude certain motives and directions if you miss key things. I know I have done it numerous times and have to adjust when some certain things get pointed out. The story is really a deep case study in that respect.

I would say DeviantFun is likely one of the few who has "detailed" it to such extreme (at times almost obsessed ) levels. They are important points though and do change the evaluations on various issues concerning the characters.

 

[Diosvincenccio]

There are so many details in the story that it is easy to conclude certain motives and directions if you miss key things. I know I have done it numerous times and have to adjust when some certain things get pointed out. The story is really a deep case study in that respect.

I would say DeviantFun is likely one of the few who has "detailed" it to such extreme (at times almost obsessed ) levels. They are important points though and do change the evaluations on various issues concerning the characters.

Aye, definetly. The game is awesome in the emotionall pull it provides, and theres tonnes of small details that you can pick. Like i said once, this is not a skip to porn scene game, not if you want to undestand what is happening.

And yes, DeviantFun is definetly one that has studied the game amply. He has always good reasoning and most of the time you can only argue against him small details of the story, for example, we used to argue about the motivation of Lacey drug use during the Damian scene.

Im not saying follow DF thought train about the game blindly (we use to argue about details to some degree) but he has good logic and rationale so at least listen to the "resident expert" and think about it.