VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[DeviantFun]

Apologies for the double post, but I missed this nice analysis:

These two are the same answer and I gave the reason in my last previous post. Lacey sees sex as an act, no love or intimacy required. The MC deeply associates sex with love, care, empethy, feeling, intimacy. The whole (stupidly idiotic) point of 'Damian' was too show the MC that Lacey does not need love associated, that sex is something you can do without it and to show the mc because there is no love involved and/or needed, he does not have to worry about her ever leaving him.

Once again, you must understand me, me, me, me, me, me......and we all know exactly how that played out (for more reasons than one), because Lacey is a fucking moronic bitch who never thinks and when she does, thinks she is always right (for reasons we know).

Absolutely on point, the only thing I would argue is the why Lacey always thinks she is right.
I cannot accept the "brain damage" excuse, it is too convenient, this is how Lacey is, period.
She pushed away all MC friends during childhood and then she abandoned him after promising something else, from these choices we can already outline that she feels that whatever choice she does, is a good one.

But this is one of the few posts where I see Lacey selfishness being underlined, she doesn't hate MC, she doesn't hurt him with purpose.
It is all collateral damage from her selfishness and low impulse control (addiction behaviour or brain damage for K both fit, but I'm going with the former as more plausible), thinking she is helping gives her pleasure doesn't matter if she is actually causing harm, the attention she gets gives her pleasure so she downplays it to make it innocent to her own eyes.

Mia actually has a good moment (one of the few, she is an absolutely horrible character with the humor of a 12 year old) where she calls out Lacey on exactly that, too bad this is left as an open point and never discussed again.

Well, one would think so right? You are correct in your earlier statement, when Lacey begs 'please', the MC misconstrues this as Lacey wanting more instead of her asking the MC to put a stop to it. However, yes, I very much agree (and I have known IRL couples like this after one has cheated). Does the MC need to start going out with her anytime she is out and not at work? Seeing friends? Night out? Does he need to follow her around constantly, in order to know what, where, when , with who she is with?

Not a good basis for a relationship is it, and in the context of this particular story, one could not blame him for enforcing that....because she cannot be trusted, at all, in any given situation, especially where alcohol may be involved and especially where a predatatory man may be involved.

One of the most hilarious things about it all is that, at one point, Lacey does have some kind of revelation and even tells the MC, everytime I have an idea, I'm going to tell both Anna and Mia (as they balance each other out) to make sure I'm making a good decision. At that point I was like, hallefuckinglujah lol.....then she comes up with the ONS while away (groan)....asks both Anna and Mia who both say....baaaad idea....(at which point, even Mia says go through with it you're on your own, I'm not helping which..wow...still doesn't register with our precious Lace) and she then thinks....what a great idea (rolls eyes)...honestly, it's painful at times, this VN somewhat a kin to a bad trainwreck you just can't turn away from...

Again very on point, Lacey actually starts by having MC control her messages and calling him when she is out without him to make him feel secure and regain some trust.
It is short lived, very short lived, even though it could have been a starting point to build the relationship anew, since the willingness to be controlled was coming from the cheating side.

As for the checking with friends, I think the author wanted to rush it a bit and tried to find where to add shock value, thus invalidating the whole premise.

 

[JEER0X]

Not at her request at all iirc. She makes that decision so the MC doesn't see/read a thousand messages etc asking where is, how stupid he is, unreliable he is, uncaring, selfish etc etc...make your own mind upo what people would have messaging him with. Lacey was with her boss, during the day.

See the difference ion how people think? You instantly jump to Lacey has done something, with zero proof, evidence or anything else, all the while actually knowing, if you took a breath, she'd be unable to do anything anyway. I see it as his friends protecting him from a load of crap (and probably sprialing messages from Lacey also) that he really does not need to see for his own sanity and mental health.

Anna's plan? Have you ever tried to brute force something? Especially a confrontation/ultimatum? Tell me how that worked out for you? Anna's plan really isn't difficult to comprehend.

i read all the posts after yours and a lot of good points and some of my questions are answered in others opinions at least of what they think or the way they interpret what lacey is doing the part where she's with her boss so nothing can happen i disagree with and while i don't think its really relevant now at the point the games at she herself said she failed the MC while she was supposed to be watching lacey as she managed to get away with Damian and do the video call so Veronica was useless and unreliable in the end.

She didn't only cheat with Damian.
I don't subscribe to the theory that cheating has always to be physical, emotional cheating can be as bad and damaging.
Lacey emotionally cheats on MC in numerous occasions, from Jared to Will to the "work crush" to the random flirting to the dresses.

You always need to take into consideration your partner limits and well being

I agree with this emotional cheating is cheating absolutely.

I'm hesitant to post/quote this, as I don't think I'll be around much tonight and I don't want to appear as though I'm hitting-and-running here in the event that this sparks some additional discussion, but I didn't want to ignore this either.

I suspect that "...how it's supposed to be" might be the one of the primary sources of disconnect here. Personally, I see a ton of love in this story, and for my money, the way Lacey feels about MC might be one of the purest, most complete depictions of "love" I've ever seen in media, and almost certainly in AVNs. Yes, she has some really brutally awful ways of showing that love, but again, she's broken, and if you can look beneath the surface and *really* try to understand her motivations (as others are doing in this thread), that's what it all points to.

The truth is, when it comes to love, there is no "how it's supposed to be". Society at-large, the media -- be it books, movies, music -- and the environment you grow up in are all built to feed you a narrative about what love is supposed to look like. Media-wise, it's all packaged up nicely with a bow on it in order to make it easy (and enjoyable) to consume. But human beings are insanely complex creatures, and every single one has a different family they grew up with, or different narratives they were exposed to, and every single one of the 8 billion+ people on this planet has a different idea of what love is "supposed to look like".

Sure, there are basic tenets that form common threads around the idea, but if society and media ever tried to pull back the curtain to show what love *really* looks like, often under difficult circumstances, there would be a lot less to consume because more often than not, it's ugly, dirty, and confusing, and let's face it, nobody wants to see that shit when they drop $40 at the movie theater.

And yet, I think that's what Amethyst is trying to do with this game -- show what the concept of "love" looks like when it's "real" (for lack of a better term). This story is about two people who wholeheartedly love each other as much as two people possibly can, but because of their *very* different life experiences to this point, have *very* different concepts of what love is "supposed to be" ... They don't understand each other in the same way you don't understand them -- again, because your experience tells you to look for something specific, and it's not what you see. That doesn't make it "not love".

We're just experiencing their mutual struggle as they try to figure out what love is actually supposed to look like for them.

My $0.02, anyway.

your right Love is interpreted differently for different people and i guess i can try to see it but its hard for me i guess the last part of your statement i agree with for sure

Not at her request at all iirc. She makes that decision so the MC doesn't see/read a thousand messages etc asking where is, how stupid he is, unreliable he is, uncaring, selfish etc etc...make your own mind upo what people would have messaging him with. Lacey was with her boss, during the day.

See the difference ion how people think? You instantly jump to Lacey has done something, with zero proof, evidence or anything else, all the while actually knowing, if you took a breath, she'd be unable to do anything anyway. I see it as his friends protecting him from a load of crap (and probably sprialing messages from Lacey also) that he really does not need to see for his own sanity and mental health.

Anna's plan? Have you ever tried to brute force something? Especially a confrontation/ultimatum? Tell me how that worked out for you? Anna's plan really isn't difficult to comprehend.

So anna has the same plan as Lacey just slower? i don't understand what her plan was at all i must of missed it in the story? and why bother i still am not understanding this if lacey would stop doing all this crazy shit with other guys the mc wouldn't be so worried about losing her. the Issac thing was probably one of the most triggering for the MC cause lacey admitted she had feelings for him and liked sex with him and that she thought about leaving with him so now the MC feels that she could leave him because of it.
and i'm still not getting why she's trying to force him to understand her (Lacey's) view on love and sex when he clearly disagrees and i know several people keep saying she's a selfish bitch and is doing it for herself in reality

Mia is another story altogether, she is an abuser, she admits it, some characters weakly admit it, but she never faces the music.
It is honestly one of the worst parts of the game, there is no closure and no growth, we go from: "I abused Lacey and hate MC" to "I'm everyone fav latina and me and MC are in love" with a bit of "oh no I am sorry I thought we were play acting" while writing the most foul shit possible to a man fighting to keep his marriage alive (she also states to have emotional intelligence just after this happens).
Anna mentions something in passing, only Christine goes into the topic a bit, MC is over it pretty quickly.

1000% why the hell are they even talking to this crazy girl after everything she's done how can she be bff's with Lacey still

This is a very nice point of view, I agree with it wholeheartedly.
It does resonate with me since I am going through something similar, the problem is that I am the Lacey of the situation (I am not THAT bad, don't worry).
But I cannot see it applied to a co dependant relationship such as the one depicted in the game.
Remember Lacey admits she doesn't love MC, she realizes she NEEDS him, which is a very big and stark difference from loving him.
She feels grateful for him and wants to give something back, but on her own terms and never taking into consideration MC actual feelings or at least a warped version of them, which will fit her narrative and help her get the next "fix".

What I also find troubling is how the sex+love connection that MC feels, is portrayed as wrong, same as his jealousy.
He is manipulated and pushed to have sex with other women (tbh he also falls to his carnal desires), to try and make him forget and start feeling numb towards casual sex.
Why? Why aren't his feelings validated? Is there a right way to approach sex? Is wanting to have sex only with the person you love so wrong?
Considering that Lacey actually weaponizes sex with MC and actually covers all his fantasies, I don't see why he has to be "deconstructed"

I like the way you describe some of the things in the game and i have some of the same questions, i must of missed the part where she "admits she doesn't love him" cause they say i love you several times in the game and if she doesn't love him why would he remain? I understand he's damn right obsessed with her but there has to be a breaking point regardless if she's gonna threaten to kill herself or not.


Sorry if my questions are repetitive i'm trying to get several answers from other people cause opinions on the topics vary just don't reply if it annoys you I'm just trying to understand it that's all

 

[DeviantFun]

I like the way you describe some of the things in the game and i have some of the same questions, i must of missed the part where she "admits she doesn't love him" cause they say i love you several times in the game and if she doesn't love him why would he remain? I understand he's damn right obsessed with her but there has to be a breaking point regardless if she's gonna threaten to kill herself or not.

Anna makes her admit it in the subway on the way to the cliffs where MC ran off after the Damian incident.

It was a rare moment of clarity, Lacey does go back to say that she loves MC after this.

MC never hears any of this and remains with Lacey because he is weak to her, in this case not because she did something to him, but because he really built his life around her.
He truly loves her to the point of almost nullification of himself and his desires.
He feels he is always on the verge of losing her.
For him life without Lacey is a dark place.

 

[JEER0X]

I might dredge threw the game again slower this time and see what i missed cause i did miss some stuff i didn't expect the game to be as long as it was, I realized a few times I put my own thoughts into the story that didn't happen at least wasn't shown like where i assumed she did something when the mc was drunk and that's why they deleted the text messages while its not shown in the game if anything happened i just jumped to she did something stupid again and they didn't want the MC to see it (im gonna laugh later if i am right and she did do something and he finds out)
Another example is where i thought she was still sleeping with others after Damian while its not shown in the game anything happens i just assumed she was sleeping around every chance she got, since to me she seems to be addicted to sex not just Ketamine and so i figured the Dev wasn't showing it either "yet" or you know the mc finds out later or something, you can't really blame my mind for creating these scenarios when she clearly can't be trusted and seems to have a sex addiction and can't control herself.

I really hope the dev continues the game it kind of feels like they don't think people like it or something, i tried his/her other game the mountain one and i prefer this ones story at least so far but they seem to wanna work on that one first.

 

[redoubt27]

(im gonna laugh later if i am right and she did do something and he finds out)

I'll give you that the possibility still exists, because the story isn't complete.
And I'll be laughing with you because it would be a laughable plot twist that strains credulity to a ridiculously absurd level...

Because on top of subverting the entire point of the story in ACT 1, the most glaring loophole isn't the texts, it's the flash drives taped to the door before the MC takes down Jared...
But even those have a solid rebuttal and support for them being exactly what Veronica tells the MC they are...the source himself, Jared.

What I found mildly amusing, is that in my jurisdiction, if those flash drives are videos of Lacey drugged up in college with a 16 year old, Jared is now guilty of distributing child pornography and everyone, including the 16 year old, who had sex with Lacey in that video is automatically charged with 3rd degree rape...
I was laughing during that whole exchange because my take down would have been much different.
Sure Jared, go ahead and give them to the police. Better yet, let me call them right now and have them come retrieve them off my door...
Oh Lacey dear, can you forward me the texts from Jared blackmailing you.
I'd like to pass them along to the police when they come pick up the flash drives.
Thanks sweetie...

And it's also good that Lacey told the MC not to watch, because if he had, the MC could be charged with a crime as well...

 

[darthbob]

I am floored that this is just Act 1. I realize that next update will be smaller in size but dang, it just kept going and going in a good way. There were some parts that got too wordy for me but I ended up going back anyways. For those that comment this is unrealistic, yes maybe, but there are some truths to the phrase "Love is blind" as well as being so deeply in love that all rationale thought is thrown out the windows. I can't sympathize with MC cause I personally got tired of the abuse but I also never had a lifelong love to put me in this mindset. Lastly, it's also a game. Sometimes there are plot choices to push you down a certain narrative. You may not agree to the beginning, middle, ending, or a mixture of all three but if it gets you commenting then they have done their job in drawing you in.

 

[JEER0X]

I kind of hope he asks to look at her phone at some point like jealous boyfriends usually do and see's even more things she's hidden or lied about. I'll be honest i am leaning towards hope that he leaves her to hell with what happens to her cause she's so bad for him at least from what i can see maybe there is some hidden meaning or something here i don't see yet but as of now i am hoping he gets away from this crazy cock starved bitch.

 

[DeviantFun]

I might dredge threw the game again slower this time and see what i missed cause i did miss some stuff i didn't expect the game to be as long as it was, I realized a few times I put my own thoughts into the story that didn't happen at least wasn't shown like where i assumed she did something when the mc was drunk and that's why they deleted the text messages while its not shown in the game if anything happened i just jumped to she did something stupid again and they didn't want the MC to see it (im gonna laugh later if i am right and she did do something and he finds out)
Another example is where i thought she was still sleeping with others after Damian while its not shown in the game anything happens i just assumed she was sleeping around every chance she got, since to me she seems to be addicted to sex not just Ketamine and so i figured the Dev wasn't showing it either "yet" or you know the mc finds out later or something, you can't really blame my mind for creating these scenarios when she clearly can't be trusted and seems to have a sex addiction and can't control herself.

I really hope the dev continues the game it kind of feels like they don't think people like it or something, i tried his/her other game the mountain one and i prefer this ones story at least so far but they seem to wanna work on that one first.

My man, Lacey is really selfish and she does enough dumb stuff that is actually useless trying and find more.
If you really want to go down that path you can stop creating for your own scenarios and focus on the tennis practical joke (MC still thinks is a joke btw), the Will incident and the parties at Jared's.

She does not have a sex addiction, she weaponizes sex with MC unwillingly, she equates the ability to give pleasure to him as a tool to make herself worthy (notice of many times she offers BJs) and to give MC some "experience" that he missed in his life.
Too bad this is not great for MC because he has a complete different opinion about sex, he's mesmerized by sex with Lacey and makes him feel that Lacey is actualy "his".

What she does have is a very low impulse control which translates in her doing absolutely the dumbest shit ever just so she can feel good, not only in a sexual way.

I'll give you that the possibility still exists, because the story isn't complete.
And I'll be laughing with you because it would be a laughable plot twist that strains credulity to a ridiculously absurd level...

Because on top of subverting the entire point of the story in ACT 1, the most glaring loophole isn't the texts, it's the flash drives taped to the door before the MC takes down Jared...
But even those have a solid rebuttal and support for them being exactly what Veronica tells the MC they are...the source himself, Jared.

What I found mildly amusing, is that in my jurisdiction, if those flash drives are videos of Lacey drugged up in college with a 16 year old, Jared is now guilty of distributing child pornography and everyone, including the 16 year old, who had sex with Lacey in that video is automatically charged with 3rd degree rape...
I was laughing during that whole exchange because my take down would have been much different.
Sure Jared, go ahead and give them to the police. Better yet, let me call them right now and have them come retrieve them off my door...
Oh Lacey dear, can you forward me the texts from Jared blackmailing you.
I'd like to pass them along to the police when they come pick up the flash drives.
Thanks sweetie...

And it's also good that Lacey told the MC not to watch, because if he had, the MC could be charged with a crime as well...

Exactly! This is why I always refer to the "Jared fight" as totally stupid.
How is all that glossed over is beyond me, hell even the fact that Lacey fucked a minor is totally glossed over.
I told before that the author tries to look for shock value too much, to the point of being detrimental to the story.
He wanted to make MC some sort of "hero" so he came up with this convoluted plan which required a ton of goodwill from Bella as well.

You know what you made me realize? The author is absolutely incapable to make the women in his game face any consequences.
Mia never faces any consequences of her past (and some present) actions, Veronica never faces any consequences for betraying Lacey and MC and neither does Christine.
The men are always the baddies and they face consequences: Barty, Jared (even if they're totally stupid), Evan, Isaac from his mother.

Moreover, we learn from Barty that there is porn of her floating around, now we know from Jared that there is even more and....everyone is ok with it, not even a mention.

 

[redoubt27]

It's like a conspiracy theory RV in here...
Everyone's just waiting for the uber mega ultra plot twist that Lacey is a genius level master manipulator who's been playing a long con to cuck the MC since the age of 6 instead of being what Lacey actually is, a broken, damaged 6 year old living a 22-23 year old's life...
Guess we'll just have to wait and see...

 

[DeviantFun]

It's like a conspiracy theory RV in here...
Everyone's just waiting for the uber mega ultra plot twist that Lacey is a genius level master manipulator who's been playing a long con to cuck the MC since the age of 6 instead of being what Lacey actually is, a broken, damaged 6 year living a 22-23 year old's life...
Guess we'll just have to wait and see...

Haha that is true, I hope my posts don't come across as conspirations.
I actually strongly disagree with the "beat down Lacey" or "Lacey is evil" crowd, I mean her motives are outlined quite well in the game, I am rewriting some parts of it because I cannot stand the MC + I played the game on all 3 routes with all the different options, so I think I have a pretty good grasp of what is going on.

Lacey is not evil, she is dumb, impulsive, selfish and unrelliable.
Some of this stems from her abuse, some from her fear and some from her addictions, but one thing we can say for sure is that she NEEDS MC, like really NEEDS him, is it love? I don't know and neither does she.

She is deeply convinced that she loves him while she might just be addicted to his care and how he makes her feel, but doesn't know what true love is yet, she does the dumbest stuff to try and fix stuff that doesn't need to be fixed.
Actually, the more I think about it the more I can see how she can define her feelings as love but love is something that is given freely, she is not free for now.

For all the folks expecting some huge betrayal from her, please replay the game, I am also willing to share my version as soon as it is done if you, like me, cannot stand the MC (the changes are nothing major, just a bit of tuning and critical theory cleaning, oh and less Mia simping).
You will see how wrong you are.

 

[Maviarab]

Haha that is true, I hope my posts don't come across as conspirations.
I actually strongly disagree with the "beat down Lacey" or "Lacey is evil" crowd, I mean her motives are outlined quite well in the game, I am rewriting some parts of it because I cannot stand the MC + I played the game on all 3 routes with all the different options, so I think I have a pretty good grasp of what is going on.

Lacey is not evil, she is dumb, impulsive, selfish and unrelliable.
Some of this stems from her abuse, some from her fear and some from her addictions, but one thing we can say for sure is that she NEEDS MC, like really NEEDS him, is it love? I don't know and neither does she.

She is deeply convinced that she loves him while she might just be addicted to his care and how he makes her feel, but doesn't know what true love is yet, she does the dumbest stuff to try and fix stuff that doesn't need to be fixed.
Actually, the more I think about it the more I can see how she can define her feelings as love but love is something that is given freely, she is not free for now.

For all the folks expecting some huge betrayal from her, please replay the game, I am also willing to share my version as soon as it is done if you, like me, cannot stand the MC (the changes are nothing major, just a bit of tuning and critical theory cleaning, oh and less Mia simping).
You will see how wrong you are.

Please do post your edits at some point. The MC in this annoys me, I am usually a self-inserter with VN's but this guy...jeesh...if I was his friend in real life i'd have slapped him to Tibet and back and yeah, some of the dialogue is just downright...well.

Great post and analysis mate, I agree she won't betray the MC and hasn't done anything. However, that being said, Act1 was...painful to get through at times. Act2 really needs some positive forward direction.

 

[Shinnichiban]

Now that the update for their other game is out, I hope we can expect this to get updated soon too.

 

[DeviantFun]

Please do post your edits at some point. The MC in this annoys me, I am usually a self-inserter with VN's but this guy...jeesh...if I was his friend in real life i'd have slapped him to Tibet and back and yeah, some of the dialogue is just downright...well.

Great post and analysis mate, I agree she won't betray the MC and hasn't done anything. However, that being said, Act1 was...painful to get through at times. Act2 really needs some positive forward direction.

I'll gladly do that, I was just "working" on it, I am at the party at MC house.
I was wondering was to do with a MC tought that says "don't say black woman" while trying to describe Jeanette.
This is what I mean about being drenched in critical theory, now saying that someone is black has become an insult? I really don't think Jeanette minds being black you know? WTF
I want to simply remove it but I am undecided how to deal with the text after.

Anyway, I am going back and forth with the edits, the main problem I have is that I want to be respectful of the author's work so I cannot change MC or the various relationships drastically.
English is not my native language so I probably have less ability in crafting the phrases compared to a native speaker.

Now I need to do a small rework because when the Jared parties thing gets exposed I inserted a good motivation for MC to let Lacey start fixing things, too bad now I don't think it works down the line.
Another thing I did was slowing down Mia and MC relationship, they end at the same spot but there is a bit more burning time and some anger from MC instead of turbosimping, + Anna is a bit critical of Mia's behaviour.

 

[Maviarab]

I'll gladly do that, I was just "working" on it, I am at the party at MC house.
I was wondering was to do with a MC tought that says "don't say black woman" while trying to describe Jeanette.
This is what I mean about being drenched in critical theory, now saying that someone is black has become an insult? I really don't think Jeanette minds being black you know? WTF
I want to simply remove it but I am undecided how to deal with the text after.

Anyway, I am going back and forth with the edits, the main problem I have is that I want to be respectful of the author's work so I cannot change MC or the various relationships drastically.
English is not my native language so I probably have less ability in crafting the phrases compared to a native speaker.

Now I need to do a small rework because when the Jared parties thing gets exposed I inserted a good motivation for MC to let Lacey start fixing things, too bad now I don't think it works down the line.
Another thing I did was slowing down Mia and MC relationship, they end at the same spot but there is a bit more burning time and some anger from MC instead of turbosimping, + Anna is a bit critical of Mia's behaviour.

If there's any phrases or lines you're unsure of, you can feel free to send them to me and I'll look them over and suggest an edit if I feel is required.

 

[Maviarab]

I was wondering was to do with a MC tought that says "don't say black woman" while trying to describe Jeanette.
This is what I mean about being drenched in critical theory, now saying that someone is black has become an insult? I really don't think Jeanette minds being black you know? WTF
I want to simply remove it but I am undecided how to deal with the text after.

I hate double posting normally but didn;t want to edit in case you missed it:

For this, if it helps you, I felt this was more the MC not worrying about calling her black, but more not wanting to unintentionally offend/upset her by stating he is well aware she was turned down for the job for not being a white male. He was just fluffing how to say that in a politically correct way in his head before opening his mouth.

 

[DeviantFun]

I hate double posting normally but didn;t want to edit in case you missed it:

For this, if it helps you, I felt this was more the MC not worrying about calling her black, but more not wanting to unintentionally offend/upset her by stating he is well aware she was turned down for the job for not being a white male. He was just fluffing how to say that in a politically correct way in his head before opening his mouth.

Ah yeah, you are referring to another part that I still have to get to, but for that I have a pretty strong idea on how to deal with, leveraging on MC's respect and friendship for Jeanette.

What I was referring to is when Bradley sister arrives at the party and MC is trying to describe Jeanette to her.
He thinks "don't say black woman" and it feels REALLY weird, like mentioning her race is offensive, actually it feels more than weird, it feels racist as fuck .
Being black/white/asian/arabic or whatever is not something you should be ashamed of, it is not a taboo, it's just a fucking skin color, it doesn't define you as an individual.
It would be like saying the guy over there with short black hair.

Maybe I am too old for today's way of thinking, I don't know, but it made me pretty irritated.

 

[sac812]

Being black/white/asian/arabic or whatever is not something you should be ashamed of, it is not a taboo, it's just a fucking skin color, it doesn't define you as an individual.
It would be like saying the guy over there with short black hair.

God bless you for saying so, and of course you're absolutely correct. Alas, 300+ years of American history strongly disagrees with you, and even in today's "enlightened" society, there are vast swaths of the US population that would take great offense at what you said here.

It's not my hope or intent to lead this thread into a socio-political debate ('cause those always end well), but to your point about MC's thought process, I'll just say that as the US (and other historically like-minded cultures) have tried to crawl out of the dark ages, there is a heightened sensitivity toward defaulting to racial descriptors, as that has been the norm for a long time. MC is trying to come up with a *different* way to describe her because he's afraid that by simply referring to her as a "black woman" he might *come across* as racist.

Can certainly see how that might seem like some fucked up logic, but it's pretty common these days. In a twisted way, you could almost justify it as signs of "progress" (societally), but yeah...

 

[DeviantFun]

God bless you for saying so, and of course you're absolutely correct. Alas, 300+ years of American history strongly disagrees with you, and even in today's "enlightened" society, there are vast swaths of the US population that would take great offense at what you said here.

It's not my hope or intent to lead this thread into a socio-political debate ('cause those always end well), but to your point about MC's thought process, I'll just say that as the US (and other historically like-minded cultures) have tried to crawl out of the dark ages, there is a heightened sensitivity toward defaulting to racial descriptors, as that has been the norm for a long time. MC is trying to come up with a *different* way to describe her because he's afraid that by simply referring to her as a "black woman" he might *come across* as racist.

Can certainly see how that might seem like some fucked up logic, but it's pretty common these days. In a twisted way, you could almost justify it as signs of "progress" (societally), but yeah...

Thank you for taking the time and explaining, I guess american culture, while being widespread it is still alien to me when it comes to these topics.

I still see it is a flawed way of thinking, that kinda horseshoes into being quite racist.

Anyway just to lighten the mood, I used to hang out often with my good friend Omar, and he is a menace to society .
Whenever we went out drinking or at a bar for espressos, if I was served first he would always say: "wtf are you serving me after him because I am black?"
Obviously this was never the case, but we always got a laugh out of the embarassment, I guess we were a pretty terrible back then.

And yeah don't worry we did explain that it was just a joke.

 

[sac812]

I still see it is a flawed way of thinking, that kinda horseshoes into being quite racist.

Oh, it absolutely is, and does.

But few in this country will ever catch on to the irony. God bless America.

 

[redoubt27]

Very well said...

I can't sympathize with MC

I understand the MC, so I can sympathize to a degree.
However, the MC is my least favorite character because I'm having to play as his stupid ass and he's not doing what I would do... He's lucky Lacey loves him so much and puts up with his abuse until he finally extracts his head from his asshole...

And no, I wouldn't have given up on Lacey...even though all rational sense says to do otherwise...
I can truly say I've loved exactly one woman that way.
I went through hell, and would have kept going through it with her (not nearly as bad as this story, just fyi... ), but she made the decision to leave.
I guess that's why I'm so fond of Lacey's character.
She went through hell, but when she was ready to come out the other side, she didn't leave the MC in hell either, she went to rescue him...

Kind of like the movie What Dreams May Come...
Imagine Robin Williams' character going into hell to save his wife. Decided to join her instead of leave her again. But when she wakes up, she just leaves him there and gets herself out... Kind of what happened to me. But Lacey isn't doing that to the MC, and it pisses me off that he isn't more understanding much sooner...