VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[AL.d]

I sort of agree with the realistic context, yet not all paths are carved equally, no journey is the same.
I cannot honestly tell you which is the best solution, since separation brought suicidal thoughts and self destruction in both of them.

They didn't have a support structure, well maybe Mc more than Lacey, since he found Anna (which still abandoned him), Lacey seems to have draw the short straw there and found a literal monster as support.

Lacey is the same and yet she isn't, I would not dismiss anyone's path to redemption or self improvement.

Will she stop being a narcissist? no, but she can learn how to control herself and channel her thoughts and emotions differently.

I am still very angry at her manipulation attempts, but I am also amazed at her willingness to atone.
A true narcissist would not go through that self reflection, because she is obviously hurting and regretful.
Anyone can see that and if they don't I think their pride or preconceptions are stopping them from looking at obvious facts.

This does not make her innocent, she is still a manipulative bitch, she diminished MC emotions and feelings for a long time, she did all she did in college.
But she is stepping forward.

I have less hopes for MC, he is written as a witness more than a character, and a lousy one at that.
Hopefully we will see some improvement or character growth because at this moment we have literally 0 growth aside from a "revelation" that I think we are supposed to take as a deep concept:

MC "I finally fucking get it."
MC "I finally understand."
"She's afraid of losing my love. More specifically, no longer being my 'most loved'."
"I'm afraid of losing the illusion of control I have over her."
"Control I only have, because she let's me have it."
"That's what she was trying to get me to see."
"I could never lose her, because she's never going to take back that control she's given me."
"No matter what she does or what I let or even make her do, I'll never lose control of her."
"And that's why I don't have to be afraid."
"That's what being the whale shark means in her little story."
"No matter where I take us."
"She's the remora that will never let go."
"As long as I don't leave her, she belongs to me."
"Because she wants to belong to me."
"She's already experienced it all."
"And, in the end, none of it was more alluring for her, than being in my life."

Which is essentially internalized abuse and rationalization.
Not that some of the things that he says here are wrong imo, but stuff like

"She's already experienced it all."
"And, in the end, none of it was more alluring for her, than being in my life."

Really makes him sound like a shit stained doormat with no self respect.
You were the second choice to it all, you were suicidal while she was having fun, she came back when she decided she had enough.

But yeah now the fool thinks that he is control, when in the story this is shown is beyond me, so how can this assumption be made is also beyond my probably limited capabilities.




Trust is built slowly and over time and can be lost pretty quickly.
Yet I wouldn't say he cannot trust her at all, I would trust Lacey act 2 to some extent.

Dios puts it beautifully here

The dialogue you posted practically shows why I don't believe they can heal together. Their very mindsets drag each other back down. This whole monologue is sweet poison for a narcissist. It's enabling. So even if they both genuinely want to change, they are still enabling each other's worst aspects. Even Lacey said at some point that if she told her therapist what they were up to, she'd be on her ass. And then you have the orbiters who are also enabling the toxicity for their own reasons.

I don't know what and how many endings this has planned. But a bittersweet one where they both fully acknowledge what they are doing and they decide to separate without any cliffs or overdoses would work. And then as the final scene after a long time skip, it shows them older, accomplished but single, accidentally meeting each other. And just cuts there. A bit of cliche but it would count as happy ending.

Yes they can and it doesn't clash with my point 2. Even if it does require a separation to achieve it, it is possible. My point 2 is only about current events, not what is possible in the future. Currently, Lacey is toxic to MC, so I think objectively, it would be best for MC and her to separate. In the future, maybe therapy gets her to the point to where she can manage it well enough for them to have a healthy and happy relationship.

But it's not just her issues the problem. See above. It's a feedback loop.

 

[DeviantFun]

Well said.
Although I suppose that these are shoots planted by Lacy a little earlier.

My problem is not that Lacey puts the seeds for these concepts, it is fine, she is actually honest in her intention of doing so if you ask me.
She really wants to make him feel in control, not only of her but of his life.

But no one, not even the most damaged person in the world would accept this as truth when compared to her actions, and we see how much MC still mistrust Lacey (second nightmare).
Act 2 for us was months apart from act 1, for the characters has been 1 night.
The "revelation" from MC comes less than 2 weeks after act 1.

Are we to believe that her doing what MC says during the jealousy date is the proof of control? Even when control is taken from him in level 2?

This surely cannot be the angle of the author, he is a better writer than that.

EDIT

The dialogue you posted practically shows why I don't believe they can heal together. Their very mindsets drag each other back down. This whole monologue is sweet poison for a narcissist. It's enabling. So even if they both genuinely want to change, they are still enabling each other's worst aspects. Even Lacey said at some point that if she told her therapist what they were up to, she'd be on her ass. And then you have the orbiters who are also enabling the toxicity for their own reasons.

I don't know what and how many endings this has planned. But a bittersweet one where they both fully acknowledge what they are doing and they decide to separate without any cliffs or overdoses would work. And then as the final scene after a long time skip, it shows them older, accomplished but single, accidentally meeting each other. And just cuts there. A bit of cliche but it would count as happy ending.

It is hard not to agree with you, especially when you bring up the enabling group of friends, I felt pretty alone with that position.

That for me is the main problem that will impede both MC and Lacey growth.
In act 1 they never hold Lacey accountable and aside from Anna but even she isn't consistent in doing so.
Just look at both Lacey's plans, what do their friends do? Nothing, they chit chat in front of some coffee.
Ironically, in one of those events, the fucking pimp says that she is trying to make the situation better.

And then we get to act 2 and we see that better means for the pimp: drugs and pain for MC.
Here Anna enables the pimp disgusting behaviour, which at this point makes me think I have no clue who Anna is, she is all over the place in terms of characterization.
Is the the woman that thinks the worst thing she has done in her life was lying to Lacey? Or is she the one that is happy in lying and gaslighting MC at every turn? Or is she the one that wants him to finally stand up for himself? Because at this point I have no clue and her behaviour isw absolutely inconsistent.

Lacey can learn how to behave better, MC can learn to stop being a witness of his own murder, but surely they can't when every person around them is this evil and conniving.

 

[Maviarab]

she will act on good intentions

And as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions....

 

[anongamer1983]

But a bittersweet one where they both fully acknowledge what they are doing and they decide to separate without any cliffs or overdoses would work. And then as the final scene after a long time skip, it shows them older, accomplished but single, accidentally meeting each other. And just cuts there. A bit of cliche but it would count as happy ending.

I think this would be a fine ending, but it wouldn't be very interesting. Lacey is in therapy now, so author could just put that ending in at any time. I think it's more interesting as a reader to see them desperate to succeed together even if it makes it more difficult. I'll fully admit that it will be much more difficult with the feedback loop. However, I think that's where the other characters, such as Diane, come into play to help their healing process. Even if MC wants to give Lacey that feedback loop, Diane shuts it down, which is why I believe that Diane is more important than any other character when it comes to Lacey's recovery

 

[Saphfire]

Separation would involve the re-emergence of this Dark Lacey that the MC has been, supposedly, keeping at bay. True, she does have more and better friends right now and she didn't simply jump out the window as soon as the MC ragequit after Barty's little surprise vid...

Yes they can and it doesn't clash with my point 2. Even if it does require a separation to achieve it, it is possible. My point 2 is only about current events, not what is possible in the future. Currently, Lacey is toxic to MC, so I think objectively, it would be best for MC and her to separate. In the future, maybe therapy gets her to the point to where she can manage it well enough for them to have a healthy and happy relationship.

Exactly my thoughts. They need a seperation or maybe even a divorce because atm the MC´s options are very limited.
He would never cheat as long as he is in a relationship with Lacey, he would only be able to collect breadcrumbs thrown athim by Lacey.

Girls like Yue, Jeanette or Bethany would never date someone who is in a relationship. I tried to explain this weeks or months ago to DF
and act 2 has not changed my opinion. Lacey would never fall back to the version she was in college.

Regarding MC, i don´t see him as many in this thread do. Yes he is weak now because he had never have the chance to grow as a person. He spend 13years completely devoted to Lacey plus 4 years of self inflicted isolation from college life.

How can he be a strong, confident human being without any life experience? He needs time to grow and he will grow the fastest without her constantly dragging him down.

 

[DeviantFun]

Girls like Yue, Jeanette or Bethany would never date someone who is in a relationship. I tried to explain this weeks or months ago to DF
and act 2 has not changed my opinion. Lacey would never fall back to the version she was in college.

I think you will be very surprised in the future

Regarding MC, i don´t see him as many in this thread do. Yes he is weak now because he had never have the chance to grow as a person. He spend 13years completely devoted to Lacey plus 4 years of self inflicted isolation from college life.

How can he be a strong, confident human being without any life experience? He needs time to grow and he will grow the fastest without her constantly dragging him down.

I do not share this view, he is weak because he is written as weak.
Remove Lacey, look at his actions with Isaac, no matter how good natured, these are actions of a weak man, afraid of conflict or to hurt someone.

He is not even able to stop the pimp when he sees fucking drugs that he knows to be dangerous.

Or even to face Veronica or Christine when needed, at least to reset the situation and gain clarity.

He threatens physical violence often and yet he only manages to hit a 70 pound woman and then run away crying instead of offering help and see if she is fine.

He is written like an absolute wimp, worthy of the worst NTR/NTS VNs.

Look at his second nightmare, sure Lacey is involved there, so I will grant a -5 on his attack roll, but he is written AGAIN like a total witness.
At least make him throw a punch (you know, those "empty" ones you feel while dreaming), but no, let him cry to the pimp on the phone.

 

[Fitharia]

Exactly my thoughts. They need a seperation or maybe even a divorce because atm the MC´s options are very limited.
He would never cheat as long as he is in a relationship with Lacey, he would only be able to collect breadcrumbs thrown athim by Lacey.

Girls like Yue, Jeanette or Bethany would never date someone who is in a relationship. I tried to explain this weeks or months ago to DF
and act 2 has not changed my opinion. Lacey would never fall back to the version she was in college.

Regarding MC, i don´t see him as many in this thread do. Yes he is weak now because he had never have the chance to grow as a person. He spend 13years completely devoted to Lacey plus 4 years of self inflicted isolation from college life.

How can he be a strong, confident human being without any life experience? He needs time to grow and he will grow the fastest without her constantly dragging him down.

I don't disagree with you, but at the very moment, seperation would be bad, maybe when mc is 100% sure there won't be any other guys trying to bring her back on the wrong track and he can be sure to leave her with some of the friends they made like Anna and so on, then maybe they ready to be seperate for awhile.

But at this point Lacey still suicidal, there is this anonym group that want to turn Anna, Mia and Lacey into K girl, there is this The Monster that message the mc with cryptic i'm here to help, do what I say, yet all the things The monster knows is bad things for Lacey and Mc relation if they not protect them against it.

If the Mc and Lacey would now seperate, it would only make it easier for whatever those anons have planned, as Lacey isn't ready to deal with correct decisions, maybe even never will with her brain damage. So all she has is the Mc to protect her and he has the help of the friends they made.

Though Seperation in any relation is also bad, there very low percentage if relations that survive once they decide to seperate for awhile; especialy depends on how toxic the relation is, so I see it that if they would still do the seperation, the longer it takes the closer Lacey gets to go back to try suicide and yes if the mc finaly can let Lacey loose, he might find someone better, but will it be better? What if after few years with this new girl, he realize he made a mistake and Lacey was always the one he wanted, what if Lacey already succeed in suicide and is no longer there. It a fact that the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the hill.

 

[Maviarab]

I think you will be very surprised in the future



I do not share this view, he is weak because he is written as weak.
Remove Lacey, look at his actions with Isaac, no matter how good natured, these are actions of a weak man, afraid of conflict or to hurt someone.

He is not even able to stop the pimp when he sees fucking drugs that he knows to be dangerous.

Or even to face Veronica or Christine when needed, at least to reset the situation and gain clarity.

He threatens physical violence often and yet he only manages to hit a 70 pound woman and then run away crying instead of offering help and see if she is fine.

He is written like an absolute wimp, worthy of the worst NTR/NTS VNs.

Look at his second nightmare, sure Lacey is involved there, so I will grant a -5 on his attack roll, but he is written AGAIN like a total witness.
At least make him throw a punch (you know, those "empty" ones you feel while dreaming), but no, let him cry to the pimp on the phone.

It's really, really difficult to argue against any of this, I'm in complete agreement. What I think needs to happen, is the MC suddenly finds out there is a fully furnished apartment (for sale) above his office. They move into there, because at work, is the only time he has a damn spine. So maybe there, he can actually stand up for himself.

The fact that he is portrayed (written) as a completely different personality at work compared to outside it...shows that he does actually have something about him that he could call himself a man. In fact, come to think of it, any interaction at all that does not involve the Vampire ot the Pimp, shows him in a very different light.

Purposeful? Shittily written? Dual persona? Maybe one day we'll find out.

 

[AL.d]

My problem is not that Lacey puts the seeds for these concepts, it is fine, she is actually honest in her intention of doing so if you ask me.
She really wants to make him feel in control, not only of her but of his life.

But no one, not even the most damaged person in the world would accept this as truth when compared to her actions, and we see how much MC still mistrust Lacey (second nightmare).
Act 2 for us was months apart from act 1, for the characters has been 1 night.
The "revelation" from MC comes less than 2 weeks after act 1.

Are we to believe that her doing what MC says during the jealousy date is the proof of control? Even when control is taken from him in level 2?

This surely cannot be the angle of the author, he is a better writer than that.

EDIT


It is hard not to agree with you, especially when you bring up the enabling group of friends, I felt pretty alone with that position.

That for me is the main problem that will impede both MC and Lacey growth.
In act 1 they never hold Lacey accountable and aside from Anna but even she isn't consistent in doing so.
Just look at both Lacey's plans, what do their friends do? Nothing, they chit chat in front of some coffee.
Ironically, in one of those events, the fucking pimp says that she is trying to make the situation better.

And then we get to act 2 and we see that better means for the pimp: drugs and pain for MC.
Here Anna enables the pimp disgusting behaviour, which at this point makes me think I have no clue who Anna is, she is all over the place in terms of characterization.
Is the the woman that thinks the worst thing she has done in her life was lying to Lacey? Or is she the one that is happy in lying and gaslighting MC at every turn? Or is she the one that wants him to finally stand up for himself? Because at this point I have no clue and her behaviour isw absolutely inconsistent.

Lacey can learn how to behave better, MC can learn to stop being a witness of his own murder, but surely they can't when every person around them is this evil and conniving.

That scene with the three of them, where Anna starts with the flower garden shit but in the end she proclaims full support to Lacey's cuck training plan, invalidates everything she has said prior to that. Even Mia protested, while she went full behind it. She is as toxic as they come and in a more insidious way than Mia. I'm also baffled as to what exactly he is trying to do with her character.

 

[Maviarab]

That scene with the three of them, where Anna starts with the flower garden shit but in the end she proclaims full support to Lacey's cuck training plan, invalidates everything she has said prior to that. Even Mia protested, while she went full behind it. She is as toxic as they come and in a more insidious way than Mia. I'm also baffled as to what exactly he is trying to do with her character.

Also have to agree with this. Anna (forever now known as the banshee from this post onwards) has really been soured, one could argue she is more insidious and toxic than even the succubus right now.

 

[DeviantFun]

It's really, really difficult to argue against any of this, I'm in complete agreement. What I think needs to happen, is the MC suddenly finds out there is a fully furnished apartment (for sale) above his office. They move into there, because at work, is the only time he has a damn spine. So maybe there, he can actually stand up for himself.

The fact that he is portrayed (written) as a completely different personality at work compared to outside it...shows that he does actually have something about him that he could call himself a man. In fact, come to think of it, any interaction at all that does not involve the Vampire ot the Pimp, shows him in a very different light.

Purposeful? Shittily written? Dual persona? Maybe one day we'll find out.

Even at work, look at his reaction when he gets the promotion.

But yeah, he does seem competent at work and I am surprised that he made such a smooth transition from data admin to director.
Obviously a lot of the things he does are like basic math and make Jeanette look extremely incompetent, but I would give this a leeway since obviously I wouldn't expect to see a representation of any job to be true to life in a VN, I mean look at how they portray lawyers in TV.

It is obviously a way to underline his extreme professional competence.
(also he can make friends because Lacey doesn't need the rules etc)

That scene with the three of them, where Anna starts with the flower garden shit but in the end she proclaims full support to Lacey's cuck training plan, invalidates everything she has said prior to that. Even Mia protested, while she went full behind it. She is as toxic as they come and in a more insidious way than Mia. I'm also baffled as to what exactly he is trying to do with her character.

Also have to agree with this. Anna (forever now known as the banshee from this post onwards) has really been soured, one could argue she is more insidious and toxic than even the succubus right now.

You are so right Al.d, it was a character assasination worse than Barty's.
Thank you for helping me understand my own feelings about it.

But now I am getting confused, we got the Vamp (L), the banshee (A) and the pimp (M) or is the pimp so toxic that she gets both succubus and pimp?

(obviously we have the bimbo (V) and the shortstack (C))

 

[Lestrouduc]

and act 2 has not changed my opinion. Lacey would never fall back to the version she was in college.

Too late, the Damian affair happened.

 

[Maviarab]

But now I am getting confused, we got the Vamp (L), the banshee (A) and the pimp (M) or is the pimp so toxic that she gets both succubus and pimp?

Nope....can't decide if I like Vampire or Succubus better for our dear cum covered and drool leaking wife. Pimp fits Mia perfectly, I'ma stick with that. Banshee for sure for Anna, maybe Harpie perhaps? Either or work for me lol.

 

[winterwolf200]

That scene with the three of them, where Anna starts with the flower garden shit but in the end she proclaims full support to Lacey's cuck training plan, invalidates everything she has said prior to that. Even Mia protested, while she went full behind it. She is as toxic as they come and in a more insidious way than Mia. I'm also baffled as to what exactly he is trying to do with her character.

Remeber what Anna said to Lacey during their viewing of Barty's sex tape. That Lacey told her that, and why, she wants to share the MC and that he'd be able to love her. This discussion probably comes after Lacey had it with Mia, after the K purse incident, when she sat her down at the table and told her the same plan.
Prior to all of that, this has been Mia's plan, no? To bring Lacey down to their level of relationship with the MC and share him.
This is probably why Anna, in spite of herself, went along with Mia's ...everything. Because regardless of her platonic love for the MC and for Lacey, and knowing how much it would hurt him, she's still clawing for every scrap of romantic affection she can dig out of him. Terribly conflicted character.

I also believe that Diane will succumb to the same fate that befell Kelly at the end of Act 2. Meaning, Lacey is going to bend her, and, in time, she'll stop being objective. She might not use the same carrot, that is the MC's affections, but she'll find something.

 

[Diosvincenccio]

Girls like Yue, Jeanette or Bethany would never date someone who is in a relationship

Dunno, Yue is swaying between Bradley and MC, she and MC have flirted before, and i could see a swinging event with Yue, Bradley, Lacey and MC.
For Jeanette just give her the chance, like a good sub she will follow, not dating, but some action at work? Yeah she would.

Anna (forever now known as the banshee from this post onwards) has really been soured, one could argue she is more insidious and toxic than even the succubus right now.

I said before, if Anna at least acted with malice like the pimp did, like wanting the marriage to crash and burn so she can pick the pieces (Hurting MC) and try to repair him with her at the center. I could accept it. It would not be nice of her but since it serves her interest it would be human.

What i cant undestand is accepting the love of your life, the love you sacrificed two years for is being emotionaly slaughtered and you accept it for what? a weak friendship? to not have an argument in public? Even worst, having the possibility to "rescue" your loved one from future pain and simply go for it to become the "fixer" of the relationship. Even her special time is never about her, she is used to calm the MC, she is compared to Lacey when Lacey never sacrificed anything. Dev made dirty to her.

 

[AL.d]

Dunno, Yue is swaying between Bradley and MC, she and MC have flirted before, and i could see a swinging event with Yue, Bradley, Lacey and MC.
For Jeanette just give her the chance, like a good sub she will follow, not dating, but some action at work? Yeah she would.


I said before, if Anna at least acted with malice like the pimp did, like wanting the marriage to crash and burn so she can pick the pieces (Hurting MC) and try to repair him with her at the center. I could accept it. It would not be nice of her but since it serves her interest it would be human.

What i cant undestand is accepting the love of your life, the love you sacrificed two years for is being emotionaly slaughtered and you accept it for what? a weak friendship? to not have an argument in public? Even worst, having the possibility to "rescue" your loved one from future pain and simply go for it to become the "fixer" of the relationship. Even her special time is never about her, she is used to calm the MC, she is compared to Lacey when Lacey never sacrificed anything. Dev made dirty to her.

Don't forget she also deleted the Isaac video. Which MC could use to be able to see for himself the vibe of the conversation and body language. Every single time she has to pick a side, she always picks one that is against MC having more agency in his life.

Same with her being sent by Lacey to bring him back to the fold in one of his cliff outbursts. He wasn't suicidal, just had decided to divorce and leave everything behind. But Anna pulls him back in.

 

[Maviarab]

I also believe that Diane will succumb to the same fate that befell Kelly at the end of Act 2. Meaning, Lacey is going to bend her, and, in time, she'll stop being objective. She might not use the same carrot, that is the MC's affections, but she'll find something.

I can't see this happening as honestly, I cannot conceive a single scenario where this could even happen. The succubus isn't that good and also, Dianna has no interest in the MC. However, we could get more off the wall crazy ass writing I suppose.

she is compared to Lacey

I think and could be way off base here, that that was purely to signify that this is the first time the MC has has done anything with anyone other than his dear sex doll. However, it was terribly written and came across as awful. At least, I hope that's what it was.

Don't forget she also deleted the Isaac video. Which MC could use to be able to see for himself the vibe of the conversation and body language. Every single time she has to pick a side, she always picks one that is against MC having more agency in his life.

Same with her being sent by Lacey to bring him back to the fold in one of his cliff outbursts. He wasn't suicidal, just had decided to divorce and leave everything behind. But Anna pulls him back in.

None of this can be argued with.

 

[anongamer1983]

Look at his second nightmare, sure Lacey is involved there, so I will grant a -5 on his attack roll, but he is written AGAIN like a total witness.
At least make him throw a punch (you know, those "empty" ones you feel while dreaming), but no, let him cry to the pimp on the phone.

To be fair, in his dream, he was tied to a chair, so he was physically unable to stop it from happening even though he wanted to
EDIT: Reading comprehension. I was thinking of the first nightmare lol

 

[DeviantFun]

Don't forget she also deleted the Isaac video. Which MC could use to be able to see for himself the vibe of the conversation and body language. Every single time she has to pick a side, she always picks one that is against MC having more agency in his life.

Greatest sin she has committed up to that point, I don't even know why that was done.
I remember being pretty pissed about that, and in my rewrite MC is pretty pissed as well.

Same with her being sent by Lacey to bring him back to the fold in one of his cliff outbursts. He wasn't suicidal, just had decided to divorce and leave everything behind. But Anna pulls him back in.

Another rather nonsensical thing, the whole aftermath is fucking weird, from the pimp and Lacey chatting about cocks while MC is missing for hours (I guess that is the recurring theme of the game, cocks need to be involved when MC is suicidal), to the pimp making jokes like everything is fine (always the disgusting one) to the dialogue "explain it to me again".
What the actual fuck is happening there, what is there to explain?

But he was suicidal for a time, he just is in a bit better place (weirdly) and managed to decide to just leave.

To be fair, in his dream, he was tied to a chair, so he was physically unable to stop it from happening even though he wanted to

second nightmare, not first, second nightmare is the Lacey away on a trip nightmare, he is completely free to move about.

 

[winterwolf200]

Perhaps Anna's inner conflicts and flaws are there as a crutch for the author, so he could explain how a drugged-up Anna would believe that she could replace Lacey if she ...goes through the Lacey experience. The drugs don't change her personality, so her willingness should have something else behind it.
She might think the MC would at the very least give her a better pseudo-Lacey treatment if she was more damaged.