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This keeps being said, have I missed where it is said definitively that Isaac's home is full of cameras?
- Thread starter baconsmoke
- Start date
When Issac mentions the potential rape claim with the MC
Not sure if the house is full of cameras but there is mention of cameras being in the house
ask and DF shall deliver
IS "I'm lucky. Got every damn room in my house all up with security cameras."
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Isaac records his one night stand and makes sure he has them consenting on tape
Will: That video we sent him sure as hell didn't do what it was supposed to.
FV: I don't know. Maybe he's used to his wife being a slut?
FV: Maybe it wasn't shocking enough.
Will: Seems off to me.
Will: I mean, something should have happened.
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Your comment!
So now you prove to yourself you're just wittering rubbish?
So now you prove to yourself you're just wittering rubbish?
I'm done.
Honestly, so am I. Really done with the insulting way you constantly belittle every line you don't agree with.
There's a few of you in here who seem to belong to a certain elite club. The Holders of Objective Truth. I have a real hard time stomaching such people.
It was funny, at first. But now it's getting really old.
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AL.d
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Honestly I feel like we are arguing about things that are explained with pure common sense.
Forget about Mia, about contradictions, about Lacey's lies, everything.
Think about a simple undeniable fact. There is this woman, who over the span of a couple years, was an uber slut (no prostitution or forced sex involved to our knowledge), with hundreds of partners. From that simple fact, how could anyone arrive at the conclusion that she was not enjoying what she was doing? On top of that fact, it's the same woman who almost destroyed her already crumbling marriage, displaying a total lack of impulse control and eventually cheating in front of her husband's eyes. Do you see a pattern here? This is not "enjoying sex a bit more". That's the understatement of the century.
Yes it's very possible Mia doesn't have a full understanding of how Lacey operates. Doubt even Lacey has that. But you don't need to know why someone finds something gratifying, to acknowledge they do.
About her relationships, we've probably gone through that before. If someone does all the things a relationship entails, I don't care if they don't call it that. "Emotional attachment" or whatever is just semantics. It is a relationship plain and simple.
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Notice something common in this and the kitchen convo you mentioned? In both she claims they are wrong. But she never tells them why they are wrong. She says that she would have told Mia if she had asked, but what stops her exactly from doing it now? Even worse with MC because he is the offended party who deserves an explanation. At this point it's just expecting blind faith.
This is what grinds my gears with your takes about Mia. Not that you consider her a horrible person/friend (more like enemy). 100% with you on that. But I just can't see how in any reliability comparison between her and Lacey, anyone could think Lacey is not the one losing that. There is not a single other character in the game so far, who has lied, deceived, omitted truth more than Lacey. You've played this a shitload, you know that's undeniable. So just by that fact alone, in any contradicting subject between her and literally any other character in the game, it doesn't make sense to ever take her side as factual without proof. Especially if the other person at least provides some evidence (even if you think it's flimsy), while Lacey is just "trust me bro, it's not like that". Trust me bro doesn't cut it.
If MC did that at the start of the game, he would still be living with an imaginary version of a wife that never existed and would still be wondering why the hell she fucks like a pornstar. Whatever Mia's motives were, the reason he is not living like an ignorant fool in a fake marriage, is her.
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This is a whole chicken and the egg debate with you two
Both of you always make great points and are in general both right.
It’s a matter of perspective of what was more offensive. Is it the action itself or the intent behind a crime that has more weight?
The pimps intend was always to push Lacey towards depravity and even without knowing him, destroy her relationship with MC
Lacey’s intent was as far as we know for the good of her relationship with MC, although that becomes quite murky during phase 3
Action wise, what Lacey has done will always hurt more, be it the parties, the lying or the cheating, due to the former level of trust and dependency between her and MC
Not to excuse the pimps actions, as she’s a backstabbing bitch, but without that close bond, she could be gone tomorrow and nobody would miss her
For me personally, i am not a big fan of either, but the worst thing in my book has always been the abandonment at the beginning, but i have a thing about betrayals
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AL.d
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I'd never excuse her actions, She is a shitty as they come, never disagreed on that with DF. My only gripe is judging her reliability lower than Lacey's in occasions their accounts don't match. With everything that has happened in the story, I just can't reconcile that.
If it's up to me, MC will be permanently ditching the whole trio of toxic bitches when it's time to choose. I don't consider one better than the other. It's like comparing shades of turds.
So I've had a thought and this will likely split opinions and before anyone says anything this is not me defending Lacey or her acts it is merely something that popped into my mind
So we are all well aware that at times the MC isn't shy in reminding Lacey how much of a slut she is and how much of a horrible person she is and so on and so forth
Now while I tend to agree with it all
it's made me wonder that with the MC taking this approach does it spur Lacey on to try and be better and do better to the point that she will literally jump into it with reckless abandonment and ends up doing or saying things without thinking of consequences as she doesn't see the in between of it all her primary focus is the end goal of doing better/ being better but she doesn't realise/understand the choices she makes to get to that end goal ultimately makes the matter worse - prime example the "promotion"
So we are all well aware that at times the MC isn't shy in reminding Lacey how much of a slut she is and how much of a horrible person she is and so on and so forth
Now while I tend to agree with it all
it's made me wonder that with the MC taking this approach does it spur Lacey on to try and be better and do better to the point that she will literally jump into it with reckless abandonment and ends up doing or saying things without thinking of consequences as she doesn't see the in between of it all her primary focus is the end goal of doing better/ being better but she doesn't realise/understand the choices she makes to get to that end goal ultimately makes the matter worse - prime example the "promotion"
yes yes and yes and unfortunately as you say the trio of bitches because I think you are also talking about Anna which frankly is a real mystery today in her behavior to defend the 2 vampires all the time.
Looking forward to Act 3 and beyond to see where the Professor wants to take us.
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That's a difficult one Chaotic...I'd like to say yes, and she is getting better with that, however, it's only words alone that you can say this...her words (not actions).
Ultimately though, while she may be better at understanding this (currently in the story)...to use your example, the 'promotion', she quite honestly states: I knew it was wrong, I knew I was hurting you, I knew it was a form of cheating.
So, no...given those statements from her, it's hard to agree with what you wrote when the succubus herself quite clearly contradicts that (regardless of any end goal....she knows she should not be doing it. When you know this, you understand the consequences will not be good, even if you don't know what they will be).
The conclusion can be made from the recount Lacey gives of the third phase, I don't want to keep on having to stress that I think she had more fun (at least physically) than she is willing to admit in phase 1 and 2.
The recount she gives is of this sort:
L "Partly to hurt myself, to punish myself for being alive."
---
L "Sometimes it would feel nice when it started, but by the end it usually hurt."
---
L "If I was lucky I might have an orgasm."
L "Maybe on some nights I had two."
L "But what I was, was in pain."
L "Almost every time it hurt."
L "Having sex fifteen times in a row is not the amazing adventure you seem to think it is."
L "Friction burns on the ol' vajayjay really fucking hurt."
L "Your girl went through enormous amounts of lube to try and keep up."
L "Choking on your tenth cock for the night is not sexy or erotic."
L "Having seven guys cum inside your ass is pretty goddamn gross."
L "A room full of sweaty ass boys who don't know where their fucking deodorant is,"
L "kind of sucks for a girl who has a sensitive sense of smell."
L "Having your hair pulled for the twentieth time in a row gives you a pretty serious headache, let me tell you."
L "The fifth drunk fratboy crowing about how great it must feel to have his half-flaccid dick up my pussy, isn't exactly romantic."
You completely omiss or discount the thirst for self hatred and self destruction.
I understand, it is a complex and weird topic, but even the pimp in her infinite stupidity got that somehow.
Mixing terminal college Lacey and newly married Lacey makes no sense, it is obvious that, while driven by a somewhat similar goal they are not the same person.
People change when their emotions and perception of self change, she still has hang ups about the past and it is shown time and time again.
And AGAIN, I am not saying that anything she has done is good or it should be forgiven, I think quite the opposite, I think she turned into human trash and acted up until recently like a deranged woman.
But as I mentioned in some previous post in a discussion with you, understanding and knowledge are the only way to actually use our empathy and truly get to the bottom of a person.
I do, and it is one thing the author is purposedly keeping from us, either because he wants the reader to try and get to the bottom of it or because he wants to have a BIG REVEAL at the end.
Every time I read something like this intead of jumping to conclusions, I stop and try to listen, the author is telling us something.
He is telling us what is hinted here and there, her self hatred, her spiral to self destruction, her self punishment.
I don't want to keep repeating it, but I really don't want anyone to miss the point, this is for phase 3, which is filled with desperation and addiction (+ shitty "friend").
I do not condone her actions, I also do not condone stopping at a surface level when the topic is of such significance to understand the character and the overall story.
Phase 1 and 2 I know what made them start, I know she was treated like shit (the pimp says it too, without even considering that she was putting her in that situation), I know what Lacey goal was, I don't know how much fun or her feelings during that period of time, aside from her crying and listening to MC cuck song while repeating she was doing it for him.
I think there is more to tell there, if the author didn't just drop the rave and the toothbrush randomly for shock value.
Sure she is the reason the whole thing blew up, Lacey was not right in hiding things and I find it disgusting when she says that she would do it again because she wants to be with MC or she will be dead or whatever.
This puts us again on the "Lacey in survival mode" track which means her survival is more important than MC, some might agree, some won't, I don't, sorry.
The pimp intentions were to harm and gain pleasure in doing so, then she has her own "omg now I love you" moment and still tries to do as much damage as possible, for 2 acts.
But we already agree that she is a shit human being, now, considering her influence over Lacey, she could have worked with her or even stopped the marriage beforehand.
The problem I have with the whole "the pimp more truthful than the vamp" is that it lacks what I keep on droning about since the beginning: understanding.
Currently, no one understands Lacey, not even me with all my focus on the reading, there are always missing pieces or pieces that do not fit perfectly.
Sure that stems from her not being completely open and it also stems from her lying to herself, take for example the famous I KNEW dialogue that contradicts what she said before about not realizing or not thinking that Mc would be hurt:
The funny thing about this whole statement is that is true and it is not at the same time, at that specific moment she did it thinking it would bring her closer to her goal or even without thinking too much, to realize later, upon self reflection that her actions were obviously hurtful.
But for the pimp it is worse, she was close, she could have asked, she could have gained insight, but blinded by her own impiety (cruelty?) and selfishness she didn't.
So every time she speaks or tries to explain something to us, she is giving an outside look that has literally 0 value in understanding what is going on with Lacey, Z-E-R-O.
She can show us a picture and the only thing that it proves is that Lacey did that specific action, nothing else.
This is what makes her a monster by the way, not only her actions, but the fact that she took them while not understanding a lick of what was going through in front of her.
She doesn't even understand Lacey's "other side" as far as we know, yet she is the only one that could have witnessed it.
So the jist of this whole story is: no one cares about MC and no one understands Lacey.
Lacey being misunderstood (and is very hard to understand) is one of the main plot points, how could she do all of that when she supposedly care for MC? how could she do it if it was hurting her?
These are questions that the story tried to give us hints about but is never clear cut.
To end, there is a big difference between someone doing drugs because they are bored and someone that does the same because they are broken.
They might look the same from the outside, they might even laugh at the same jokes, but what is going on inside them is totally different.
This is why the pimp is completely unreliable, and while Lacey could only be speaking in half truths, that half is already more valuable than the "truth" coming from the pimp.
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I probably could of worded it better but it was something I quickly put together on my phone rather than pc
I would always go against the abuser and not the victim, it is clear from the story and even the pimp recount that Lacey was very vulnerable and didn't want to do anything the pimp wanted her to.
It took her weeks to push a vulnerable and traumatized girl to do her bidding.
This, for me, is and will always be a capital sin, people that prey on the weak are garbage that don't deserve much in life.
The abandonement from Lacey was unforgivable, especially the lies predating that, but they have a reason that, at the time, was not entirely selfish.
So while I would not forgive it or forget it, I will see it as a lesser offense.
We never disagreed on that for sure, it is hard to, considering how she is written.
I would still keep Anna around, I think that she is being heavily tainted by the other two, I can see it in her eyes that the Anna from college is still there (also latex/pvc bikini, thanks).
Lacey has low control over her impulses and is also a big liar.
If she wants something she will try to get it, no matter the consequences.
So she wants to "teach" MC something? she will go through with it in her head a million times and then do it because that is the best course of action.
She wants validation from MC and feel worthy of him (also validation from others, important trait for a low self esteem person) she will try to get a big job so that Mc will be amazed and happy.
She minimizes the consequences in her head initially, but then they hit her and she spirals.
You are thinking like MC when he tries to justify and understand Lacey, funneling all the blame on himself.
The truth is that Lacey has so much regret and feels so misunderstood that she keeps on coming with these inane plans to fix things.
And then everything goes to shit because she is a dumbass.
Sayora
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Mia's problem is not that she is a bad person (I can argue with that) her problem is that she doesn't understand people well. She is not a pimp, she is just a deeply wounded girl whose childhood trauma is no better than Lacey's.
She wanted Lacey for herself - as a toy
MC was in the way and she did everything to save the toy from unnecessary worries. (bad deed - yes)
I will note that Lacey was not her best friend, but a toy.
Having gotten to know MC better, she wanted to be with him (bad deed - no)
Having weighed all the options, she decided that it would be better for MC without Lacey and decided to act drastically by tearing off the bandage without thinking about the consequences for MC. (bad deed - I don't think)
All her actions simply speak of emotional immaturity
she acts like a teenager, which is what she essentially is.
You are trying to judge her as an adult, adequate person.
She wanted Lacey for herself - as a toy
MC was in the way and she did everything to save the toy from unnecessary worries. (bad deed - yes)
I will note that Lacey was not her best friend, but a toy.
Having gotten to know MC better, she wanted to be with him (bad deed - no)
Having weighed all the options, she decided that it would be better for MC without Lacey and decided to act drastically by tearing off the bandage without thinking about the consequences for MC. (bad deed - I don't think)
All her actions simply speak of emotional immaturity
she acts like a teenager, which is what she essentially is.
You are trying to judge her as an adult, adequate person.