VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[winterwolf200]

You conclusion is interesting because I see that being a route, but you arrived there with headcanon. We have only two sources in the game about the college events. Mia and Lacey. And for just one day, Isaac. We can infer some things about things they don't say, but the general picture has to be from things they say, otherwise there is no picture. And while they disagree on the liking it part, they both agree Mia was the initiator. How would Mia benefit from revealing her part in it, if that wasn't how it happened? She could just say it was all Lacey.

You can definitely encourage someone to do something they want and still be a horrible friend for doing that. If my friend is an alcoholic and I'm constantly calling him to bar hop because I'm bored, I'm a bad friend. It's called enabling. My alcoholic friend isn't seducing me to call him, I do it because I'm a selfish prick. So her liking it is irrelevant in terms of Mia doing the right thing or not.

And that comes from someone who thinks Lacey is fully responsible for what she did in college, because I don't infantalize adults. But Mia is still the shittiest of friends.

We can also infer some things from what the author is trying to do with the Mia character. Something some of you have already picked up on. The fact that she's a victim, she's likable, lovable even, and a love interest for the MC.
We can also choose to trust the MC's gut, Anna's judgement, and Lacey's apparent tolerance of "monstrous" Mia.
"How would Mia benefit from revealing her part in it, if that wasn't how it happened? She could just say it was all Lacey." - she doesn't. She's not doing it for herself. She's used to doing everything Lacey wants. She was, as she's been saying, the one that picked Lacey up from her sessions, washed her, put her to bed, cared for her. We don't know how many hours she must have spent outside the door, or the building, waiting for it to end, hating every second of it, hating herself for going along with it.
No. She's not Lacey's friend except in Lacey's mind. She is in love with her. Not as obsesive as the MC, but...
She's not an enabler. She's a puppet. Of course she couldn't do the right thing. She could only do what Lacey wanted.
THIS is how MIa gets redeemed.

 

[DeviantFun]

This statement is not accurate.

Lacy did not want to have sex with MC because of childhood trauma and, according to her, left MC to fix it.

her revelation in truth and dare game looks even more unpleasant
L: the first time was unpleasant and after the second time the fear passed and it was even pleasant.
But after the cure, nothing stopped her from returning to MC and being happy.
but apparently returning to MC was not her goal and Lacy lied even here.

I don't see me skipping over very well know facts makes it inaccurate, I mentioned the reasons why Lacey left just a few posts ago, I can't repeat the same things every time.
So yeah, Lacey thought that leaving to find herself, or more precisely, to learn how to stand alone, would also have given her the means to overcome her trauma, so she could do more than holding hands with MC.

But what I meant here is that Lacey did not want to have sex with random men, the pimp pushed her to do it, during a weeks long campaign to convince her.
It wasn't hercspontaneous idea, she did not crave it.

Your statement , however, does skip a very interesting information: until that moment we are only told that she associated sex and any physical touch with her abuse, and did not want that associated with MC.
Then in the line you misquote: "The second time I had intercourse: and he first time it hurt too much the second time felt really good and it felt like I overcame my fear of sex". (Going by memory here so give me some leeway)

We learn that it is actual fear of it, not association with her abuse, why is this important? Because if it was fear (like the pimp's) she definitely overcame it pretty early and / or had a way around it with ketamine, so there was absolutely no reason to stay away from MC.
If she felt happy and relieved, why didn't she call MC to tell him? Was the addiction a cause of shame? Was it the fact that she had sex betraying him? If we only consider "fear of sex" then it all becomes doubtful.

If, instead, the whole reason is the association to abuse and seeing her father every time, then the reason for standing away stands, because she could have even associated those memories even only thinking about the second time with Stephen with a ph.

I always chalked it up to the author not wanting to write an essay in a menu box, but how it is phrased clashes with the information we have from the rest of the story.

 

[MightbeSomeone]

Indeed. This is the reason Lacey went away. To fix the sex and intimacy probles she had for the MC.
But some of "us" choose to cherrypick what Lacey says to fit the dogma they've already set to stone. And now they're fighting perceived heretics off with said dogma.
Maybe they should try stepping outside the box and see how it fits?!
What I mean when I say that Lacey manipulated Mia I mean SEDUCED. Lacey used seduction to recruit Mia into helping her with her plan. I don't think they had sex. Probably not at 1st. Hell, might not have had sex at all.
Mia didn't push a broken person into doing things she didn't want. Mia isn't evil. She carefully, lovingly helped Lacey discover self-pleasure. The escalation to men, was at Lacey's request. And everything that happened afterwards was because she liked it and wanted it.They might have been making money off it. And some of it might have been Mia's way of punishing Lacey when she saw her "pure form" and realized she's never going to love her back.
Mia's only problem is that she was and probably still is somewhat in love with Lacey.
What she was back then is probably what the MC is going to become if he follows Lacey's plan. So the MC has a lot more in common with the Mia, in my opinion, than any other girl around. He's going to end up punishing Lacey with gangbangs and possibly drugs, just as Mia did.Because of love for a piece of trash.

Mia in my opinion is a POS . Major manipulator and she is using all the stuff she tracked during college to drive the MC away so she can have Lacey.

 

[Diosvincenccio]

L: the first time was unpleasant and after the second time the fear passed and it was even pleasant.
But after the cure, nothing stopped her from returning to MC and being happy.
but apparently returning to MC was not her goal and Lacy lied even here.

To me it seem to be talking about the physical aspect of sex. The trauma still haunted her in a emotional level. So she learned to take a dick without going crazy with fear, but still was seeing the father in every intimate interaction, still hating him. Its not untill Isaac that she figured out that she can fuck and do anything without thinking of "dear daddy".

And why she didnt return earlier, before Isaac there was no reason, after Isaac, when the complete disociation ocurred, she needed time to recover herself, finish college, etc...

You are confusing the fear of sex, with the trauma. While closely related, they arent the same.

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Indeed. This is the reason Lacey went away. To fix the sex and intimacy probles she had for the MC.

Sex and intimacy problems in general, not only with the MC. It just happens that at the begining the MC was the only partner/sexual companion around.

But some of "us" choose to cherrypick what Lacey says to fit the dogma they've already set to stone. And now they're fighting perceived heretics off with said dogma.

The dogma as you call it, its just general consensus that most of us agree. And its not setled in stone, it has changed dozens of times as more details are picked. If you have details of your theories and show it to all and convinces most of us, guess what? Your theory and proof will become part of the "dogma".

Some of the users here have read and played the story dozens of times, some of the "us" as you call it dont have understood even half of the story, skipped a lot of important dialogue or directly created its own version of what it has happened, and then they act as if they know better. If you are gunning for the king, dont fail, if you are gonna complain that there is a dogma, at least get your fact checked and be right.

What I mean when I say that Lacey manipulated Mia I mean SEDUCED. Lacey used seduction to recruit Mia into helping her with her plan. I don't think they had sex. Probably not at 1st. Hell, might not have had sex at all.

While i do share the oppinion that Mia is in love with Lacey, and that explains some of her early actions and motivations, at no point of the story is proven, or even insinuated that Lacey is the one who seduced Mia. There is no proof of that beyond, well, you saying so.

Mia didn't push a broken person into doing things she didn't want.

Yes, she did, she admits it herself in diferent ocassions, in different words. Lacey also confirms it. From pleasing Mia to the last hurrah. Another thing is how much Lacey enjoyed it, but the fact is that it was Mia who pushed Lacey into this acts.

Mia isn't evil.

Forget about what she did at college for a while, even the amount of lies and gaslighting to the MC, the way the lessons about Lacey were presented, trying to ruin your friend marriage, bringing drugs to your recovering drug addicted friend. And thats just a portion. Yeah, all actions of a saint.

The escalation to men, was at Lacey's request.

That would be a really interesting pick that we missed. Please provide a line of the game proving it.

They might have been making money off it.

While it has been discussed and it make some sense. There is no proof. What it is given by the dialogue is that Mia gave Lacey as a favor. So far, if there was some monetary or similar compensation it was on Mia side, what she did on that, for example buying drugs for Lacey, is just speculation.

And some of it might have been Mia's way of punishing Lacey when she saw her "pure form" and realized she's never going to love her back.

No proof of that. Mia never explains her motivations to unleash Lacey pure form in a direct manner. And make your mind about it, did Lacey go full slut on her own accord or its the result of Mia punishing her?

Mia's only problem is that she was and probably still is somewhat in love with Lacey.

She has a damn lot of problems on her own, almost on the level of MC and Lacey. See above for examples.

He's going to end up punishing Lacey with gangbangs and possibly drugs, just as Mia did.Because of love for a piece of trash.

Sure dude. He would only have to discard every single core concept of his own persona to do that, from the extreme jealosy, to the fear of abandonment, the regret for punishing her, to the very concept of "her hero" by intentionally damage her.

The fact that she's a victim, she's likable, lovable even

She is a victim in another crime, not on Lacey case. She is one of those abused become abusers characters, and not only to Lacey. For the lovable part... to each their own. I would stay continents away from friends like that, just saying.

We don't know how many hours she must have spent outside the door, or the building, waiting for it to end, hating every second of it, hating herself for going along with it.

The only thing she hated is how broken Lacey ended due her actions, but she did enjoy the journey, cleaning duties included. And even that regret is still debatable given her opinion of the "pure Lacey".

She's not an enabler. She's a puppet.

In what place is said, even insinuated, that she was the one following orders? Aside of your own oppinions.


How can someone say so much and be so wrong about everything, then complain that the rest of the world dont change in accord of his opinions. Thats some ego and entitlement.

My recomendation to "you" as oposed to the "us" that was mentioned. Play the game again, and this time, you see this things on the lower side of the screen game? Those are words, try reading them. Carefully.

 

[winterwolf200]

Mia in my opinion is a POS . Major manipulator and she is using all the stuff she tracked during college to drive the MC away so she can have Lacey.

Maybe. Or just maybe it's like during the Kings Weekend. Everything was planned BY Lacey. The games, the questions, and what is revealed. Like when you had all 3 other girls bait the MC into asking questions that would bring Lacey down , because SHE claimed she'd never get embarased... Come on...
Though, considering Lacey and Mia argue about the lessons at one point, I think you're right. A jelous Mia was trying to chase the MC away. But if Mia was the main character that sort of action would be called avoiding NTR. The only reason you hate Mia is because you play the MC.

 

[MightbeSomeone]

Maybe. Or just maybe it's like during the Kings Weekend. Everything was planned BY Lacey. The games, the questions, and what is revealed. Like when you had all 3 other girls bait the MC into asking questions that would bring Lacey down , because SHE claimed she'd never get embarased... Come on...
Though, considering Lacey and Mia argue about the lessons at one point, I think you're right. A jelous Mia was trying to chase the MC away. But if Mia was the main character that sort of action would be called avoiding NTR. The only reason you hate Mia is because you play the MC.

My thoughts are from one PT and MIA is the problem, if MIA had not corrupted Lacey and abused her they would not be in the mess they are in. And no this is not NTR the MC knows what is going on NTR is someone stealing a LI not what we are seeing and MIA stealing and destroying the marriage and Lacey is NTR. I will do another PT in the next week to see if I see other things.

About the live stream = which I truly hated and think LACEY was dead wrong about what it would do but the "Friends" did not follow her wishes Lacey's plan was to show the MC that she would do anything for him and he was in control. He lost control because of Mia and Anna. He was made to look like a cuck and a tool because of Mia and Anna Now imagine how that would have gone differently if Mia and Anna had kept it private and communicated with the MC the way Lacey asked them to?

 

[Maviarab]

to drive the MC away so she can have Lacey.

She doesn't want Lacey. She did...but now wants the MC to herself. Do keep up.

if MIA had not corrupted Lacey and abused her they would not be in the mess they are in.

And Lacey could have just said...no....she never thought to. Her godamn words!

but the "Friends" did not follow her wishes

Yes they did...by staying out of it. Mia IS AGAINST THE PLAN!

He lost control because of Mia and Anna. He was made to look like a cuck and a tool because of Mia and Anna

I feel like we're playing two different godamn games....

the way Lacey asked them to?

She never asked them to say anything to ther mc....

What the...actuaL...hell...are...you...on about? At all? Post after post after post after post you spout absolute rubbish and state thoughts as facts (incorrectly).

 

[Diosvincenccio]

About the live stream = which I truly hated and think LACEY was dead wrong about what it would do but the "Friends" did not follow her wishes Lacey's plan was to show the MC that she would do anything for him and he was in control. He lost control because of Mia and Anna. He was made to look like a cuck and a tool because of Mia and Anna Now imagine how that would have gone differently if Mia and Anna had kept it private and communicated with the MC the way Lacey asked them to?

You lost me there. Where was MC in control? He was against this whole idea, yet it happened. They put some basic rules about the who, he put some rules about what is forbidden. And all rules where broken. What was in his control?

Mia and Anna didnt interfere at all on her plan. Thats what most of us reproach them, both of them should have stopped her actively.

What do you mean about Mia and Anna keeping it private and comunicating with the MC the way Lacey asked them?

Do you people play the game with extra scenes or what? Because i swear half of you talk about shit that never happens, conversations that i never read because they dont exist in the game, and in general make claims that i cant understand how you people reached those conclusions.

 

[DeviantFun]

Mia in my opinion is a POS . Major manipulator and she is using all the stuff she tracked during college to drive the MC away so she can have Lacey.

This was just at the beginning, and during college, we don't know how much of it is due to manhating and how much to possesiveness, she wanted to feel like the saviour or at least the most inportant person in Lacey's life.

How can we reconcile this last statement with the notion that she ruined her life, is a mystery only the author knows.

She then goes on in wanting MC for herself, with Lacey looking in from the outside, which is, again, horrible bahaviour on her part.

She does what she wants whenever dhe wants, no matter who gets hurt in the process, using this excuse of seeing the true self of people, when she lacks the basics of emotiobal intelligence. (Lessons, misunderstanding and abusing Lacey).

Since you want to go for multiple playthroughs, be careful about filtering the information coming from this board, there are some people with a very vivid imagination that spout headcanons not based on the material.

Let me take the KW as an example:
The cool part of it is that we see how Lacey is unable to give MC even a silly party without everything crashing down.

Shw definitely did not plan for Veronica to make some questions, or for Mia to make some comments and questions about the past.

In fact, Lacey even ruins the weekend and made it about herself when she had in the room.

All of this underlines how the only thing of value she can offer is sex, which is depressing.

So try to look at things objectively.

 

[winterwolf200]

"Sex and intimacy problems in general, not only with the MC. It just happens that at the begining the MC was the only partner/sexual companion around." - this is irelevant


"While i do share the oppinion that Mia is in love with Lacey, and that explains some of her early actions and motivations, at no point of the story is proven, or even insinuated that Lacey is the one who seduced Mia. There is no proof of that beyond, well, you saying so." - No. It is implied from the control Lacey exerts over every female in reach. Mia loves her, Anna loves her, Veronica loves her, and Kelly and the red headed therapist have come around to it after brief interractions. She's always presented as the one in control, the one that turns people. Not one to be pushed into things. She's basically like the priest in Age of Empires. And the author is making a point in presenting Mia as believing herself to be gay in that timeframe. Therefore, we might infer that Lacey, being what she is, made the 1st move. Not Mia.


"Yes, she did, she admits it herself in diferent ocassions, in different words. Lacey also confirms it. From pleasing Mia to the last hurrah. Another thing is how much Lacey enjoyed it, but the fact is that it was Mia who pushed Lacey into this acts." - you're taking the words of two known liars at face value, then? They both "confirm" a lot of things.


"Forget about what she did at college for a while, even the amount of lies and gaslighting to the MC, the way the lessons about Lacey were presented, trying to ruin your friend marriage, bringing drugs to your recovering drug addicted friend. And thats just a portion. Yeah, all actions of a saint." - Not saying she's a saint. I'm not saying she's a friend. I'm saying she's a jilted lover. And as such, all her actions are understandable. From trying to chase away the competition to trying to go back to the way things were when they were together, however sick that may have been.


"That would be a really interesting pick that we missed. Please provide a line of the game proving it." - oh for the sake of fuck. Stop being such a fucking redditor. I'm infering. I'm trying to paint you a picture to see if it fits. The fuck is wrong with you.

"No proof of that. Mia never explains her motivations to unleash Lacey pure form in a direct manner. And make your mind about it, did Lacey go full slut on her own accord or its the result of Mia punishing her?" - I already made it. I implied that it was Lacey's wish that started it, her escalation because she loved it, and further escalation because Mia tried to punish her unrequited love. Any reason they can't be all true?

"Sure dude. He would only have to discard every single core concept of his own persona to do that, from the extreme jealosy, to the fear of abandonment, the regret for punishing her, to the very concept of "her hero" by intentionally damage her." - The game ahs a punishment route, a slut route, red bra nights...What's the issue here?


"She is a victim in another crime, not on Lacey case. She is one of those abused become abusers characters, and not only to Lacey. For the lovable part... to each their own. I would stay continents away from friends like that, just saying." - This is not me. This is the author.


"The only thing she hated is how broken Lacey ended due her actions, but she did enjoy the journey, cleaning duties included. And even that regret is still debatable given her opinion of the "pure Lacey"." - "Please provide a line of the game proving it"


"In what place is said, even insinuated, that she was the one following orders? Aside of your own oppinions." - I infered t. It's my own opinion based on everything we see of Lacey, especially on King's Weekend.

"How can someone say so much and be so wrong about everything, then complain that the rest of the world dont change in accord of his opinions. Thats some ego and entitlement.
My recomendation to "you" as oposed to the "us" that was mentioned. Play the game again, and this time, you see this things on the lower side of the screen game? Those are words, try reading them. Carefully." - this is drivel. Pointless, unconstructive drivel. And, right back at you.

 

[winterwolf200]

This was just at the beginning, and during college, we don't know how much of it is due to manhating and how much to possesiveness, she wanted to feel like the saviour or at least the most inportant person in Lacey's life.

How can we reconcile this last statement with the notion that she ruined her life, is a mystery only the author knows.

She then goes on in wanting MC for herself, with Lacey looking in from the outside, which is, again, horrible bahaviour on her part.

She does what she wants whenever dhe wants, no matter who gets hurt in the process, using this excuse of seeing the true self of people, when she lacks the basics of emotiobal intelligence. (Lessons, misunderstanding and abusing Lacey).

Since you want to go for multiple playthroughs, be careful about filtering the information coming from this board, there are some people with a very vivid imagination that spout headcanons not based on the material.

Let me take the KW as an example:
The cool part of it is that we see how Lacey is unable to give MC even a silly party without everything crashing down.

Shw definitely did not plan for Veronica to make some questions, or for Mia to make some comments and questions about the past.

In fact, Lacey even ruins the weekend and made it about herself when she had in the room.

All of this underlines how the only thing of value she can offer is sex, which is depressing.

So try to look at things objectively.

The part about the King's Weekend is bullshit, and you know it. From the hint we get from Veronica, how she exposed her secret AllFans experience to her friends using the game, to Lacey's claim that she can't be embarassed to which all the girls push the MC to ask her the obvious ...To the MC's realization when he was comforting Lacey.
She planned it. Everything. She exposed some more of her past using games, while the MC was amongst "his girls".
She only told Mia to shut up at the last question, because only THEN did she go to far or outside the plan.
"there are some people with a very vivid imagination that spout headcanons not based on the material."- i think your 20th playthrough made you loose some perspective.

 

[DeviantFun]

You lost me there. Where was MC in control? He was against this whole idea, yet it happened. They put some basic rules about the who, he put some rules about what is forbidden. And all rules where broken. What was in his control?

Mia and Anna didnt interfere at all on her plan. Thats what most of us reproach them, both of them should have stopped her actively.

What do you mean about Mia and Anna keeping it private and comunicating with the MC the way Lacey asked them?

Do you people play the game with extra scenes or what? Because i swear half of you talk about shit that never happens, conversations that i never read because they dont exist in the game, and in general make claims that i cant understand how you people reached those conclusions.

Haha come on it is the first playthrough shock.

The author did something cool here, I hope on purpose.

Remember the Dianne dialogue about victims of narcissists not knowing if they are coming or going?
I think that it is the feeling the player gets on the first playthrough of act 1, the amount of shock value events and information to examine could create confusion and frustration.

In some sad cases, like MC, a player could even start building a whole new world of scenarios that have no basis on "reality". (The material, in our case).

It is sad because it is detrimental to understanding the basic concepts that the author is trying to convey.

 

[duckydoodoo]

True, it is not, do you remember my AI analysis?

nope, you lost all credibility here the moment you cited your own AI analysis as proof of point.lol cmon

 

[DeviantFun]

nope, you lost all credibility here the moment you cited your own AI analysis as proof of point.lol cmon

Ah it was a private thing for fun, someone else did it, and I wanted to try too, so I fed all the dialogue files to GPT, to see if anything new or overlooked would come out.

Essentially nothing new came out, but the analysis underlined how the pimp was the initiator and abuser during the college period, but also gave Lacey partial responsibility after a while.

No need to be so hostile, right?

 

[Diosvincenccio]

this is irelevant

That was a minor correction to your statement, so basically you're saying that your own oppinion is irrelevant, nice start.

It is implied from the control Lacey exerts over every female in reach. Mia loves her, Anna loves her, Veronica loves her, and Kelly and the red headed therapist have come around to it after brief interractions.

And everyone is gay for Lacey now. C'mon. Her "control" over the other females comes in two sections, Anna and Mia maybe Veronica, due to friendship. Like for example Anna deleting the Isaac at home recording.

And the "Dont steal my husband" fear. So she puts them in a safe zone were all the girls are included.

the author is making a point in presenting Mia as believing herself to be gay in that timeframe

Never stated in the game, but i agree. Just a reminder, there is only one convo where it was stated that Mia touched Lacey ass. Nothing more that proves this gayness...

Therefore, we might infer that Lacey, being what she is, made the 1st move. Not Mia.

And what was she when meeting Mia? A loner with no friends, no sexual experience, no confidence. And we have to believe that Lacey is the one who made the 1st move?

you're taking the words of two known liars at face value, then? They both "confirm" a lot of things.

And what else can i use to confirm it? Your oppinion that is never wrong? Should we value your oppinion over what is stated by the game?

Not saying she's a saint. I'm not saying she's a friend. I'm saying she's a jilted lover. And as such, all her actions are understandable. From trying to chase away the competition to trying to go back to the way things were when they were together, however sick that may have been.

Yeah, you can argue about her motivations, but the execution of those plans and actions are made in the cruelest way, She is evil, not by her human desires but by the way she acts on them.

oh for the sake of fuck. Stop being such a fucking redditor. I'm infering. I'm trying to paint you a picture to see if it fits. The fuck is wrong with you.

Im gonna quote myself.
Do you people play the game with extra scenes or what? Because i swear half of you talk about shit that never happens, conversations that i never read because they dont exist in the game, and in general make claims that i cant understand how you people reached those conclusions.

If you have a theory is okay to present it to everyone, but dont try to pass it as a fact.

Any reason they can't be all true?

Im gonna give you that one, you actually used "might", so in this one you presented it as a possibility. While the sequence could be true, it clashes with Lacey would be personality, either she is a manipulator and loves sex so much, or she is being punished by her controller with the sex she loves so much. If you punish someone with what they love, thats called a reward.

The game ahs a punishment route, a slut route, red bra nights...What's the issue here?

The ammount of routes of the game has nothing to do with my answer. You suggested that he is gonna punish Lacey with even more extreme versions of what has almost destroyed the MC, and for doing that, he would have to do it against the very essence of himself.

That would not be a punishment to Lacey, if anything it looks like selftorture for the MC.

This is not me. This is the author.

You put the words in the post, i stated my opinion.

"The only thing she hated is how broken Lacey ended due her actions, but she did enjoy the journey, cleaning duties included. And even that regret is still debatable given her opinion of the "pure Lacey"." - "Please provide a line of the game proving it"

Spoiler: Shows of regrets due how Lacey ended. Just some examples.

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I infered t. It's my own opinion based on everything we see of Lacey, especially on King's Weekend.

M "I met a strange girl who looked like she was trying to break free from her abusive childhood."
M "We became friends and I made it my mission to help her explore everything she 'missed out on'."
M "I thought it was her way of saying 'fuck you' to her parents."
M "I was wrong."
M "What she was, was an empty shell."
M "With no real will to live."
M "She didn't fight me on anything I drug her through."

Sound like Mia admits herself as the one directing Lacey, the enabler, instead of a puppet.



And for the next time, please use quotes, makes it easier to read as it makes the separation between who says what more distinguishable.

 

[winterwolf200]

That was a minor correction to your statement, so basically you're saying that your own oppinion is irrelevant, nice start.


And everyone is gay for Lacey now. C'mon. Her "control" over the other females comes in two sections, Anna and Mia maybe Veronica, due to friendship. Like for example Anna deleting the Isaac at home recording.

And the "Dont steal my husband" fear. So she puts them in a safe zone were all the girls are included.


Never stated in the game, but i agree. Just a reminder, there is only one convo where it was stated that Mia touched Lacey ass. Nothing more that proves this gayness...



And what was she when meeting Mia? A loner with no friends, no sexual experience, no confidence. And we have to believe that Lacey is the one who made the 1st move?


And what else can i use to confirm it? Your oppinion that is never wrong? Should we value your oppinion over what is stated by the game?


Yeah, you can argue about her motivations, but the execution of those plans and actions are made in the cruelest way, She is evil, not by her human desires but by the way she acts on them.



Im gonna quote myself.
Do you people play the game with extra scenes or what? Because i swear half of you talk about shit that never happens, conversations that i never read because they dont exist in the game, and in general make claims that i cant understand how you people reached those conclusions.

If you have a theory is okay to present it to everyone, but dont try to pass it as a fact.


Im gonna give you that one, you actually used "might", so in this one you presented it as a possibility. While the sequence could be true, it clashes with Lacey would be personality, either she is a manipulator and loves sex so much, or she is being punished by her controller with the sex she loves so much. If you punish someone with what they love, thats called a reward.


The ammount of routes of the game has nothing to do with my answer. You suggested that he is gonna punish Lacey with even more extreme versions of what has almost destroyed the MC, and for doing that, he would have to do it against the very essence of himself.

That would not be a punishment to Lacey, if anything it looks like selftorture for the MC.


You put the words in the post, i stated my opinion.

Spoiler: Shows of regrets due how Lacey ended. Just some examples.

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M "I met a strange girl who looked like she was trying to break free from her abusive childhood."
M "We became friends and I made it my mission to help her explore everything she 'missed out on'."
M "I thought it was her way of saying 'fuck you' to her parents."
M "I was wrong."
M "What she was, was an empty shell."
M "With no real will to live."
M "She didn't fight me on anything I drug her through."

Sound like Mia admits herself as the one directing Lacey, the enabler, instead of a puppet.



And for the next time, please use quotes, makes it easier to read as it makes the separation between who says what more distinguishable.

I use "I believe. I think. In my opinion. Maybe. EVEN words like INFERENCE. And if I don't use them in every fucking sentence, you and The Holders of Objective Truth instantly assume I'm "passing out facts".
So you are assuming by default that everyone is THAT stupid, except you and that shitty little club. Nice. Nice...Great thinking. Very models of common fucking sense. Up yours.
1. I never said everyone is gay for Lacey. They outright SAY they love her, but never once did I say they mean romantic love.
"So she puts them in a safe zone were all the girls are included" -THEY WILLINGLY ALLOW themselves to be put there. That is Lacey's power. She has them under her thumb and Anna outright admits it. That's why the crew exists. So they can break her hold over them by not being next to her. So they can serve their own agendas.

3. "Never stated in the game, but i agree. Just a reminder, there is only one convo where it was stated that Mia touched Lacey ass. Nothing more that proves this gayness..." - except she outright states it and during King's Weekend she tells you about the small flings she's had with other girls.

3. "no sexual experience" - no pleasant sexual experience. "A loner with no friends, no sexual experience, no confidence. And we have to believe that Lacey is the one who made the 1st move?" - She made the move of LEAVING the MC and moving away. That's the extent of her determination. And you find her approaching someone that's also damaged, like Mia, a problem??? Victims of abuse often can spot other victims, do they not?

4. " And what else can i use to confirm it? Your oppinion that is never wrong? Should we value your oppinion over what is stated by the game? " - It's MY opinion. And then again, I have a better track record than those two liars, any way you cut it.

5. "Yeah, you can argue about her motivations, but the execution of those plans and actions are made in the cruelest way, She is evil, not by her human desires but by the way she acts on them"- I SEE HER as the female equivalent of the MC. Broken in a different way, in devoted to Lacey, abandoned by Lacey in a different way - rejected. I SEE the way she act on things is as immature and crass as the MC's. Not unjustified, and definitely not evil.

6. "either she is a manipulator and loves sex so much, or she is being punished by her controller with the sex she loves so much. If you punish someone with what they love, thats called a reward."- I've already stated that I do not believe (ME, personally) Mia to be a controller. The punishment, is in the oversaturation. If you love porridge, but you get fed porridge every day for a fucking year, you'll get tired of it quickly and eventually hate it so much that you'd never want to smell porridge for as long as you live. Nevermind with increasingly painful and degrading sex acts.
She never expected Lacey to easily go through with everything she threw at her. And I SUSPECT that's where most of the guilt comes from. That she hurt her with purpose, on purpose, and it didn't even work.

7. " You suggested that he is gonna punish Lacey with even more extreme versions of what has almost destroyed the MC, and for doing that, he would have to do it against the very essence of himself." - Lacey's plan is to rewrite him. To get rid of his jealousy. That's what she says. And it works. He did share her, didn't he. In spite of himself. Practice makes perfect.

8. "M "Especially because it's partly my fault." - If you CAN, consider point number 6. Then this conversation would fit that context pretty well. Also, you should have underlined "M "I thought it was her way of saying 'fuck you' to her parents." - Because that shows Lacey's willingness. To the point that Mia believed she was trying to get back at her parents. So I don't believe she was forced. I believe she asked for help to come out of her shell, and the rest, you've already read.

 

[Diosvincenccio]

I use "I believe. I think. In my opinion. Maybe. EVEN words like INFERENCE. And if I don't use them in every fucking sentence, you and The Holders of Objective Truth instantly assume I'm "passing out facts".
So you are assuming by default that everyone is THAT stupid, except you and that shitty little club. Nice. Nice...Great thinking. Very models of common fucking sense. Up yours.

Only used those big boy words when called out. You always estated it as a fact, except one time that included a "might", and even complained how the rest havent changed our oppinions to your aparently proven facts that are your imagination.

Nice acronim T.H.O.T for one i applaud you for being clever once, asumming it was intentional, Egyptian god of wisdom among other things... i wanna believe you were referring to him, right?

Now, im not assuming that anyone is stupid, but you are making it very hard to not asume that in you case.

The shitty little club as you put it, is everyone in this thread, anyone can contribute and expose theory, details and in general whatever they want, if you dont like our club, you now where the door is.

And one last thing about this... Manners please.

Point 1. - Either they fall under Lacey control willingly or by Lacey manipulation, but it cant be both at the same time. Im gonna give you an example, if a friend asks you for money, are you being coerced by this friendship or are you giving it willigly? It cant be both.

And yes, the crew, among other things, exists to advance their own agenda.

Point 2. - Key word that you missed... THIS gayness... Aka, Lacey and Mia. Yes we know about Mia with other girls, yes we know about Lacey work crush with the security team girl, Sylvia. But back on the topic of Mia and Lacey together, and i remind you that i also believe Mia is in love with Lacey, theres is only one proof of this posible relationship, one single convo where is mentioned that Mia touched lacey ass.

Point 3. - Lacey first time was with Stephen with ph, its mentioned twice in front of Lacey and she never corrects or contradicts the statement. We dont know what the father did sexually yo her, for a good reason. Anyway it dosent matter if she had experience but was forced aka raped.

My point is, for two years Lacey was at college, alone, no friends, getting drunk and high on K. Two years without anyone. And sudenly she meets Mia and we are to believe that the loner junkie is the one who aproached and extended the friendship to Mia?

Point 4. - I bet you are one of those "The autor meant when he wrote that the chair was blue, that he was sad." kind of person. You have your opinions, we have the materials aka the content of the game. Im gonna believe the materials.

IN MY OPINION, your opinion dosent look too good and your track record is irrelevant. Get down of your high horses your majesty, here you are between equals. As i said, ego and entitlement.

Point 5. - And I SEE her as someone who would burn (not literally, she dosent goes around with a can of gasoline and matches, but i felt the need to be specific for you) everything on her path to what she wants. Someone mean, cruel, even evil. It just happens that how i see her match her actions in the game instead of some atributed motivations that are never stated.

Point 6 and 8. - You dont believe her to be a enabler and controller. I showed you a conversation where the character admits to be the enabler and controller.

You obviosly know better than the characters, the author and what is exposed in the materials. Your opinion is never wrong and of course hold more value than proven facts. Congratulations, you happy now?

Point 7 . - And you are walking away of the point of the argument. That he was gonna punish Lacey with gangbangs and drugs. Those were your words. And im telling you, that would go against what makes the MC himself, and that it would not be a punishment to Lacey.

The fact that he shared her, forced, reluctlantely and out of love has nothing to do with the topic.



Look, i tried... You obviously hold too much value to your own opinions and think that they are better than facts, better than the existing material we have. And atribute to them some sort of infalibility, think that your thoughts are proof because well...because you say so.

Lets agree to disagree. Just do me the favor and when you talk of the game to others, if you ever do, keep the conversation strightly to facts, we dont want others to missunderstand the game.

 

[DeviantFun]

Only used those big boy words when called out. You always estated it as a fact, except one time that included a "might", and even complained how the rest havent changed our oppinions to your aparently proven facts that are your imagination.

Nice acronim T.H.O.T for one i applaud you for being clever once, asumming it was intentional, Egyptian god of wisdom amng other things... i wanna believe you were referring to him, right?

Now, im not assuming that anyone is stupid, you are making it very hard to not asume that in you case.

The shitty little club as you put it, is everyone in this thread, anyone can contribute and expose theory, details and in general whatever they want, if you dont like our club, you now where the door is.

And one last thing about this... Manners please.

Point 1. - Either they fall under Lacey control willingly or by Lacey manipulation, but it cant be both at the same time. Im gonna give you an example, if a friend asks you for money, are you being coerced by this friendship or are you giving it willigly? It cant be both.

And yes, the crew, among other things, exists to advance their own agenda.

Point 2. - Key word that you missed... THIS gayness... Aka, Lacey and Mia. Yes we know about Mia with other girls, yes we know about Lacey work crush with the security team girl, Sylvia. But back on the topic of Mia and Lacey together, and i remind you that i also believe Mia is in love with Lacey, theres is only one proof of this posible relationship, one single convo where is mentioned that Mia touched lacey ass.

Point 3. - Lacey first time was with Stephen with ph, its mentioned twice in front of Lacey and she never corrects or contradicts the statement. We dont know what the father did sexually yo her, for a good reason. Anyway it dosent matter if she had experience but was forced aka raped.

My point is, for two years Lacey was at college, alone, no friends, getting drunk and high on K. Two years without anyone. And sudenly she meets Mia and we are to believe that the loner junkie is the one who aproached and extended the friendship to Mia?

Point 4. - I bet you are one of those "The autor meant when he wrote that the chair was blue, that he was sad." kind of person. You have your opinions, we have the materials aka the content of the game. Im gonna believe the materials.

IN MY OPINION, your opinion dosent look too good and your track record is irrelevant. Get down of your high horses your majesty, here you are between equals. As i said, ego and entitlement.

Point 5. - And I SEE her as someone who would burn (not literally, she dosent goes around with a can of gasoline and matches, but i felt the need to be specific for you) everything on her path to what she wants. Someone mean, cruel, even evil. It just happens that how i see her match her actions in the game instead of some atributed motivations that are never stated.

Point 6 and 8. - You dont believe her to be a enabler and controller. I showed you a conversation where the character admits to be the enabler and controller.

You obviosly know better than the characters, the author and what is exposed in the materials. Your opinion is never wrong and of course hold more value than proven facts. Congratulations, you happy now?

Point 7 . - And you are walking away of the point of the argument. That he was gonna punish Lacey with gangbangs and drugs. Those were your words. And im telling you, that would go against what makes the MC himself, and that it would not be a punishment to Lacey.

The fact that he shared her, forced, reluctlantely and out of love has nothing to do with the topic.



Look, i tried... You obviously hold too much value to your own opinions and think that they are better than facts, better than the existing material we have. And atribute to them some sort of infalibility, think that your thoughts are proof because well...because you say so.

Lets agree to disagree.

I commend your effort to try and keep the thread readable.

I have only one point, the pimp repeatedly states she thought she was a lesbian but then realized she isn't, even as recently as the king weekend.
It is also stated that she is in love with MC.
So I am kinda confused, those multiple lines of dialogue have less worth than a single line where it is stated that she touches L butt?

That said my own speculation is that we will probably get a 3p with her and L, maybe as early as the Vegas trip (low chance, but still possible imo).

Anyway, I still have a character analysis to do as soon as I get back from overseas.

 

[Maviarab]

This place has gone utterly wild...so:

Anyone find it interesting that: The term 'special k' is only used three times in the whole VN?

The first time it is used is by FV.
The second time is used by Mia in ref to the kitchen scene
The third time is again by Mia when asking the succubus how much she took the day of the 'interview' (when watching the deep fake).

 

[DeviantFun]

This place has gone utterly wild...so:

Anyone find it interesting that: The term 'special k' is only used three times in the whole VN?

The first time it is used is by FV.
The second time is used by Mia in ref to the kitchen scene
The third time is again by Mia when asking the succubus how much she took the day of the 'interview' (when watching the deep fake).

Damn! You're spinning my speculation wheels here.

That is actually true, Lacey always refers to it as Ketamine, maybe to be more comprehensible to our sheltered MC, still a nice catch.

It may be nothing, but if it is...