VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[Dragonlight]

So she reads the texts....and apparently (though what we see is the complete opposite) she is so blitzed, she is unable to comprehend a simple text message saying don't do this? (and some of the texts were before she finished work btw) Yet not quite so blitzed to be unable to remember who she is with or be unable to set up the stream equipment? Have I got that right?

So which is the truth? We both know....

Hehehe.....I love this train we're on.

Well it all circumstantial. And besides the point, because I wanted the quote where

she admits to breaking the rules to hurt him

knowingly and intentionally. Which those aren't.

 

[Maviarab]

That idea has been brought up like three times now by Lacey? You dont bring up something like that in a story if you're not going somewhere with it..

Certainly is very foreboding for sure, especially given a lot of stuff previously mentioned by her has come to pass.

 

[Diosvincenccio]

Not a reunion heh...

I know that it was supossed for Veronica to meet two big clients and all, but calling it a reunion kind of fits.

Sorry, I don't agree that these quotes prove the above statement. That she knew, in the moment, that she was hurting MC.

First is to get a rise, but a no point is said that it was a lie.

Second, convo a few lines later that you posted. She knew he would hurt.
L "I know."
L "But I have to try and make you see where my mind and my heart was."
L "I'm convinced I could help you hurt less if you understood."

Third, yeah, what she realizes post factum its that she cheated because she did it without his consent, but she admits now that she cheated including doing it hurtful. If you check the verb, the past tense includes that she knew that what she did in the past was wrong and hurtfull. She knew, just only now admits it.

Though i admit, its semantics.

 

[Diosvincenccio]

By the way, checking the Isaac confrontation that was published on the internet.

IS "Bitch could not get enough of me."
.........
IS "You're a little bitch you know that?"
MC "A little bitch that gets to fuck Lacey every day."

I know that its just a common expression, but then there is the name of the video, and i didnt trust the change of actitude of Isaac on Act 2, and the selling of the house for so much discount. So to me its suspicious.

 

[Maviarab]

By the way, checking the Isaac confrontation that was published on the internet.

IS "Bitch could not get enough of me."
.........
IS "You're a little bitch you know that?"
MC "A little bitch that gets to fuck Lacey every day."

I know that its just a common expression, but then there is the name of the video, and i didnt trust the change of actitude of Isaac on Act 2, and the selling of the house for so much discount. So to me its suspicious.

You know that never registered me with at all....good pick up...not sure is Isaacl, however, the 'bad guys' may have picked the name specifically from that interaction....

Hmmmmmmm...

 

[EumenestheGood]

You know that never registered me with at all....good pick up...not sure is Isaacl, however, the 'bad guys' may have picked the name specifically from that interaction....

Hmmmmmmm...

I really hope it's not Isaac. I dunno. I Just like to see the best in people and it feels like Isaac knows he fucked up and is trying to be better. Also the MC needs more guy friends and older brother of the redhead has kinda vanished from the plot since Act One.

The trio of Ketamine pornstudio want-to-bes have made a concerted effort to to target MCs week points, make him angry, and isolate him. It would be right up their alley to throw in a reference to that confrontation, especially since its such common knowledge.

 

[Dragonlight]

First is to get a rise, but a no point is said that it was a lie.

Well true, but thanks to the context of the convo you cant take anything she said as a fact. So as a proof its very questionable.

Second, convo a few lines later that you posted. She knew he would hurt.
L "I know."
L "But I have to try and make you see where my mind and my heart was."
L "I'm convinced I could help you hurt less if you understood."

No, she know that he is hurting NOW, and explaining herself NOW where her mind and heart WAS, to help him hurt less NOW.

Third, yeah, what she realizes post factum its that she cheated because she did it without his consent, but she admits now that she cheated including doing it hurtful. If you check the verb, the past tense includes that she knew that what she did in the past was wrong and hurtfull. She knew, just only now admits it.

Though i admit, its semantics.

And I did things that I know were wrong and hurtful.

But the verb is "know" which is present tense. If she had prior knowledge then sentence should be "And I did things that I knew were wrong and hurtful."

Anyway, sorry if I sound combative. I want to have better understanding of the story and what better way than to have someone challenge your opinion. My goal is a healthy debate, but I know I could get heated. I hope you take it as me being passionate about the topic and not as me disregarding anyone's opinion.

 

[Diosvincenccio]

Well true, but thanks to the context of the convo you cant take anything she said as a fact. So as a proof its very questionable.

No, she know that he is hurting NOW, and explaining herself NOW where her mind and heart WAS, to help him hurt less NOW.

But the verb is "know" which is present tense. If she had prior knowledge then sentence should be "And I did things that I knew were wrong and hurtful."

Anyway, sorry if I sound combative. I want to have better understanding of the story and what better way than to have someone challenge your opinion. My goal is a healthy debate, but I know I could get heated. I hope you take it as me being passionate about the topic and not as me disregarding anyone's opinion.

Im all for healthy debates, i expressed in a few post that i like discussions and debates with respect and good arguments, so no, im not categorizing you as combative, if anything its all welcomed, but all i can say about this three points is that its almost all semantics and nuance.

On the first point, yeah she is trying to get a raise but never apologices or similar for throwing something hurtful like that, never tries to diminish or retire it.(Like she did on the weaponized fear attack after will date) While is said in the passion of the moment it stays as a fact, and later supported by her own views of she being hurtful and really cheating.

The second point is an answer to this convos in general.

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She had a job, give a lesson that sex means nothing respecting some selected and agreed rules by both, she ignored the rules knowingly and voluntarely even after reading the texts, her conversating with Damian on the video means that she wasnt completely wasted like in the phase 3 college sex. So there was intent to break the rules. And she herself only gives a weak excuse that she was drugged as motivation for breaking the rules, yet she remains rational in every other decision and action in regards of all other circunstances involving the cheating, like for example she is conscient enough to send the MC the link to the video.

When acussed directly by the MC, she cant explain or defend against that in fact she did what she wanted, and that she knew that it would cause him to hurt.



I admit that English is my 5th language and is not my forte, and we are playing with semantics, so if anyone with more knowledge in the language (like a native user) speaks otherwise i will stand corrected, so for the moment i will give my undestanding of the phrase.
L "I really did cheat on you."
L "The more I think about that moment, the more I realize it's true."
L "And I did things that I know were wrong and hurtful."

The use of the "know" to me indicates that what she knows now is that she cheated by acting without consent, the past tense of were indicates that she already knew that the act was wrong and hurtful before but not that it would constitute what she later accepts as cheating.

Anyway i thing its a weird way to express it. But if you want i concede the point.
I still want to keep the fact that she never retired the inflamatory coments of point one, or that she never defends herself when acussed of doing what she wanted as points on my favor.

 

[DeviantFun]

Shes definitely a character who is fun to root for. But yeah being her husband would certainly be a journey.

She is the ONLY character who is worth rooting for, despite all her enormous shortcomings she is the only one that actually shows accountability and some sort of growth.
If she ends up on her knees, it is because she tried to stand up again. (no bj jokes, please)

Mia? deflects every single time: "it was the college guys too!" "YOU let me ruing your life", I am still wondering how the author wants us to see her tbh, because it can't be good.

Lacey? She lies and does stupid unhinged shit, but she always come out as "it is my fault" "I did that" "I could have said no"
The whole Dianne dialogues are a door to full understanding (paraphrasing fom Bojack):

You can't keep doing shitty things and then feel bad about youself like that makes it ok, you need to do better.

You are all the things that are wrong with you, it's not the alcohol or the drugs or all the shitty things that have happened to you during college or when you were a kid, it's you.

Once that concept sinks in, the sky is the limit.

By the way, checking the Isaac confrontation that was published on the internet.

IS "Bitch could not get enough of me."
.........
IS "You're a little bitch you know that?"
MC "A little bitch that gets to fuck Lacey every day."

This is just a recurring phrase, little bitch in the video is a title given to Lacey, here is given to MC so...

But you never know, I didn't like the 180° change from Isaac, it feels too forced and unrealistic (yeah, ok realism in a VN yadda yadda).

Dragonlight Diosvincenccio
What happens in the Damian stuff is like this:

She reads the messages, not blitzed yet, she is very convinced that this is what she needs to do to "help" MC fell less bad and understand that sex is not a threat to their love (this is all sorts of wrong but this is besides the scope of the convo).

She uses, goes to the bar, and THERE it becomes fucked up, she picked someone she liked but "she didn't know", but she did go with someone attractive that probabily made a pass or two during the day.

At that moment she was blitzed so she did not think the whole thing was a disaster, but she knew seeing this in whatever form, even the "right" one, would hurt MC but it was a hurt that needed to be done to then discuss and get over it.

Remember the pills discussion, she wants a shock therapy, to "fix" MC, she KNOWS full well it would hurt:

L "If you had to take two pills."
L "One would hurt horribly and one would not and might actually feel good."
L "Which would you take first?"

What happened after is a full on Lacey fuck up, but she knew she was hurting MC, she was willing to do it for a "good cause".

Don't worry I think it is still unhinged, wrong and absolutely self centered, but these are actions from desperate Lacey (thank you Mia for putting our fav couple in that situation), and she isn't right in her head even when she is not desperate so...

she played along with Jared for the job opportunity, not attention.

If you mean sexual attention I agree, but:

L "I just needed his approval for reasons I don't understand."
L "I thought someone really believed in me and in what I could accomplish."
L "I was drunk on the idea that I could be as successful as you are or maybe even more than that."

She was seeking validation, which is a pretty shitty thing here, because it completely translates to the validation from MC (which is a LOT) being not only not enough, but completely disregarded.

 

[Diosvincenccio]

This is just a recurring phrase, little bitch in the video is a title given to Lacey, here is given to MC so...

I know, i even mentioned that its a common expresion, but its like the whole "special K" situation but on reverse (bad guys use it first then Mia starts using it too), Isaac uses that expresion then the bad guys use it too.

She uses, goes to the bar, and THERE it becomes fucked up, she picked someone she liked but "she didn't know", but she did go with someone attractive that probabily made a pass or two during the day.

At that moment she was blitzed so she did not think the whole thing was a disaster, but she knew seeing this in whatever form, even the "right" one, would hurt MC but it was a hurt that needed to be done to then discuss and get over it.

Remember the pills discussion, she wants a shock therapy, to "fix" MC, she KNOWS full well it would hurt:

L "If you had to take two pills."
L "One would hurt horribly and one would not and might actually feel good."
L "Which would you take first?"

What happened after is a full on Lacey fuck up, but she knew she was hurting MC, she was willing to do it for a "good cause".

Im still not entirely convinced, she uses and gets so fucked up that not knows (or wants to make belive that she dosent knows) who she is picking, but at the same time is functional enough to drop the link and chat during the sex and all that?

As for her knowing he would hurt, of course, but there is a scale of damage, if she had respected the rules the damage would had been well, not minimum, but a lot less. And for that there was the second pill, aka, the free pass.

At some point after reading the texts there is a decision to ignore all limits selfimposed and stablished by both, and voluntarely cause the maximum damage and enjoy that kind of extra jealosy, that disregard of limits is full intentional in my oppinion, not as result of her drugged decisions.

We have already discussed it though, we are gonna talk about it in circles, just to end as we did.

 

[DeviantFun]

I know, i even mentioned that its a common expresion, but its like the whole "special K" situation but on reverse (bad guys use it first then Mia starts using it too), Isaac uses that expresion then the bad guys use it too.


Im still not entirely convinced, she uses and gets so fucked up that not knows (or wants to make belive that she dosent knows) who she is picking, but at the same time is functional enough to drop the link and chat during the sex and all that?

As for her knowing he would hurt, of course, but there is a scale of damage, if she had respected the rules the damage would had been well, not minimum, but a lot less. And for that there was the second pill, aka, the free pass.

At some point after reading the texts there is a decision to ignore all limits selfimposed and stablished by both, and voluntarely cause the maximum damage and enjoy that kind of extra jealosy, that disregard of limits is full intentional in my oppinion, not as result of her drugged decisions.

We have already discussed it though, we are gonna talk about it in circles, just to end as we did.

The problem is that K is used narratively and is weird.

You know why I don't think it fit narratively that Lacey does the most damage possible on purpose? Fear.

She is doing this because she wants to help MC, for him sure, but mostly so that he doesn't leave her because he is completely fucked up thanks to how Mia brought out the past.
I understand things don't always make sense in the VN because the author sacrifices common sense to the altar of shock value, but Lacey has literally nothing to gain from doing the "test" this way.

She disregarded eveything because her pleasure in that moment was more important than the love for MC, like it was in college, but it was not premeditated.
She does get pleasure from the jealousy, sure, but she likes to see and feel it more than just imagining it so it might have been a bit of a factor in the moment, but not a decisive one that would have made her premeditate the ordeal.

This doesn't put her in a good light, it is a shame.

Remember she is not stupid enough to do something like that fully on purpose, since she not only risked losing MC, but everyone else too.
Not Mia obviously, she would be happy to be the only person Lacey could count on.

 

[Dragonlight]

The use of the "know" to me indicates that what she knows now is that she cheated by acting without consent, the past tense of were indicates that she already knew that the act was wrong and hurtful before but not that it would constitute what she later accepts as cheating.

I see it as she did things in the past, and know in the present or post factum that they were wrong. But I am too not a native speaker so if one wants to add something, please do.

The second point is an answer to this convos in general.

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She had a job, give a lesson that sex means nothing respecting some selected and agreed rules by both, she ignored the rules knowingly and voluntarely even after reading the texts, her conversating with Damian on the video means that she wasnt completely wasted like in the phase 3 college sex. So there was intent to break the rules. And she herself only gives a weak excuse that she was drugged as motivation for breaking the rules, yet she remains rational in every other decision and action in regards of all other circunstances involving the cheating, like for example she is conscient enough to send the MC the link to the video.

I read that convo differently. MC explaining to her why and how what she has done considered cheating, and Lacey agreeing with him. Later in this convo she explains her side and how she thinks, which lead me to believe that she didn`t know or considered that she was cheating then. But now after MC has explained she agrees that it was wrong.

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I cant comment on how people act under ketamine, maybe posting the link is something she can do, especially if she planned this in advance.

In the end I am not convinced yet the she has admitted to knowingly and willingly hurting MC.

However how much Da...I mean Bastian incident was pre planned and when exactly she took K is up in the air to me.

 

[DeviantFun]

In the end I am not convinced yet the she has admitted to knowingly and willingly hurting MC.

But she knows even before doing it, I posted the convo.

She knew it would hurt him a lot to see her with someone else, not even understanding that it could make the pictures from the pimp even more vivid.

I am with you, she didn't the stuff during K on "purpose" she just lost control and, again, didn't give a fuck about MC for a while.
Her asking to the camera if he can see her, it's all for her, not for him.

 

[Dragonlight]

But she knows even before doing it, I posted the convo.

She knew it would hurt him a lot to see her with someone else, not even understanding that it could make the pictures from the pimp even more vivid.

I am with you, she didn't the stuff during K on "purpose" she just lost control and, again, didn't give a fuck about MC for a while.
Her asking to the camera if he can see her, it's all for her, not for him.

I get what you mean. I just see it in a bit different context. Like sometimes if bones heal incorrectly doctor may need to break them again, set them correctly so that they heal right. Lacey in that case see herself as a doctor that heals her husband, and not cheating wife that hurts her husband. Although the pain is inevitable, she understands that. I guess the case could be made that she did hurt him knowingly in this case.

And then her instincts took over and she fucked up. I can relate to that, I too did things that in the moment felt like not a big deal, to realize later that I fucked up, and feel bad even a decade later.

What I want to really get to the bottom of is this. Can Lacey, while fully in control of her faculties, fully understanding the consequences, knowing that if MC will find out its going to be 100% over, fully in the moment aware that what she is doing is wrong, be capable to disregard all that and have an affair ? What do you think ?

 

[Maviarab]

However how much Da...I mean Bastian incident was pre planned and when exactly she took K is up in the air to me.

It was all planned. Who, dress, when, what she would take.

I am with you, she didn't the stuff during K on "purpose" she just lost control

Agree to disagree.

I've explained, over and over, she physically does not have the time to find someone selling their old stash (enough to kill you with, so not just an odd baggy found in a sock drawer)...who was conveniently close by....on the dark web...between leaving the bar and getting back there (an hour tops). If you believe that shit, you'll believe I'm the president of Tibet...Jesus Christ...

She knew before she even left she wanted it...she either had it with her,. or organised picking it up on the Wed night...As for intentionally huirting him, you know about K. It's a dissasociative drug. Doesn't blitz you...doesn't make you make dumb decisions...doesn't make you fall over down the stairs due to being intoxicated....so yes she had 4 shots....

Again...she read the messages....messages sent before she even left work with Veronica. She read them. She ignored them. Before she got drunk/high! Even if we give her the smallest benefit of the doubt, she read them after drinking and taking K....she wasn't so fucked up she didn't know who she was with....she wasn't so fucked up and blitzed enough to be able to set up the recording equipment...and she wasn't so fucked up enough to tell Bastion why/what she was doing...yet apparently,, she was too fucked up to not 'intentionally' break boundaries? Give me a break....if we believe her 'words' she'd be unable to even stand, consent or remember her own fucking name. She wasn't! If she was....Bastion would have legally raped her and he'd be in prison, not just getting a slapped wrist for taking a photo....Veronica would have been all over that shit.

Once again....her actions...do not match her words. All planned, all premeditated....she never gave two fucks and knew exactly what she was doing (probably before she even left on the Wed afternoon). 1000% at the point she left the bar, it had absolutely fuck all to do with helping the MC and all about her getting railed.

And I might add, as has been posted (not in full), the MC does call her out on all of this and her bullshit..point blank tells her she is lying...and she admits it. There really isn't a debate here I'm sorry. All that is up for debate is exactly where the K came from and at what point exactly before going to work on Thursday morning she obtained it.

 

[Diosvincenccio]

And then her instincts took over and she fucked up. I can relate to that, I too did things that in the moment felt like not a big deal, to realize later that I fucked up, and feel bad even a decade later.

What I want to really get to the bottom of is this. Can Lacey, while fully in control of her faculties, fully understanding the consequences, knowing that if MC will find out its going to be 100% over, fully in the moment aware that what she is doing is wrong, be capable to disregard all that and have an affair ? What do you think ?

This is were i disagree with both of you. I dont think she lost control, i think that she gave control voluntarely. She prepared everything else to perfection, but then the sex, the very same thing that she says means nothing, overwhelms her? Makes her ignore the kissing or cimming inside rule? Nah, she knew and ignored them to get a feeding on his emotions.

As for the consecuencies of a fully aware affair. Thats what the drug is there for, its a nice excuse, isnt it? Oh i was disociated and i didnt meant harm... its convenient.

 

[Maviarab]

It was all planned. Who, dress, when, what she would take.

Agree to disagree.

I've explained, over and over, she physically does not have the time to find someone selling their old stash (enough to kill you with, so not just an odd baggy found in a sock drawer)...who was conveniently close by....on the dark web...between leaving the bar and getting back there (an hour tops). If you believe that shit, you'll believe I'm the president of Tibet...Jesus Christ...

She knew before she even left she wanted it...she either had it with her,. or organised picking it up on the Wed night...As for intentionally huirting him, you know about K. It's a dissasociative drug. Doesn't blitz you...doesn't make you make dumb decisions...doesn't make you fall over down the stairs due to being intoxicated....so yes she had 4 shots....

Again...she read the messages....messages sent before she even left work with Veronica. She read them. She ignored them. Before she got drunk/high! Even if we give her the smallest benefit of the doubt, she read them after drinking and taking K....she wasn't so fucked up she didn't know who she was with....she wasn't so fucked up and blitzed enough to be able to set up the recording equipment...and she wasn't so fucked up enough to tell Bastion why/what she was doing...yet apparently,, she was too fucked up to not 'intentionally' break boundaries? Give me a break....if we believe her 'words' she'd be unable to even stand, consent or remember her own fucking name. She wasn't! If she was....Bastion would have legally raped her and he'd be in prison, not just getting a slapped wrist for taking a photo....Veronica would have been all over that shit.

Once again....her actions...do not match her words. All planned, all premeditated....she never gave two fucks and knew exactly what she was doing (probably before she even left on the Wed afternoon). 1000% at the point she left the bar, it had absolutely fuck all to do with helping the MC and all about her getting railed.

And I might add, as has been posted (not in full), the MC does call her out on all of this and her bullshit..point blank tells her she is lying...and she admits it. There really isn't a debate here I'm sorry. All that is up for debate is exactly where the K came from and at what point exactly before going to work on Thursday morning she obtained it.

I will also add (to add on to Dios' post)....

Oh..I was high...I didn't realise...so sorry....what a great excuse...

However...

Ohh...if the MC leaves me I have enough to waste myself away......how...fuck...ing....convenient.....to use that threat....again!

Telling me it wasn't all planned?

Pffff Hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[Diosvincenccio]

I will also add (to add on to Dios' post)....

Oh..I was high...I didn't realise...so sorry....what a great excuse...

However...

Ohh...if the MC leaves me I have enough to waste myself away......how...fuck...ing....convenient.....to use that threat....again!

Telling me it wasn't all planned?

Pffff Hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Oh yeah, the suicide threat, she did it so much that i normalized it and forgot about that.

To be fair, we arent sure that she was on K at all. She says that it was, and that she had enough to kill herself, but not have seen it with her (unlike Mia) nor how it was disposed, so maybe it didnt exist at all.

 

[Maviarab]

Oh yeah, the suicide threat, she did it so much that i normalized it and forbot about that.

To be fair, we arent sure that she was on K at all. She says that it was, and that she had enough to kill herself, but not have seen it with her (unlike Mia) nor how it was disposed, so maybe it didnt exist at all.

I think she was definitely on...>Christine says as much and why Mia didn't notice. I'm happy to accept that as truth.

 

[Diosvincenccio]

I think she was definitely on...>Christine says as much and why Mia didn't notice. I'm happy to accept that as truth.

Thats what it irks me, Mia who has seen her hundreds of times (maybe an exageration but you get it right?) high on K, and knows her attitude in that exact situation (fucking someone while drugged) misses it complitely. Christine that while she has some exp due her sister, is the first time seen her, catches it? And is the same Christine that just got away from the group and came back with a diferent attitude, from poor Mc to lets see it on FullHD 4K? Dunno something feels sketchy about it, not saying that she did not use, but its not completely assured that she did.