VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[MightbeSomeone]

Let's all agree these motherfuckers need therapy and need to stop trying to fix each other. It's like fuckers with no arms trying to give high fives not happening.

She did consider herself a burden in the context that she loved MC but couldn't give him a normal relationship and, obviously, physical affection (sex included).
The dependency was an ingredient, but only because she thought that by standing alone, she would be able to overcome her issues and go back to him and give him what he craved.

She could have come back as a drug/alcohol addict without all the debauchery, but then she met Mia, that decided to "push her boundaries" (read: pimp her out to try and help herself under the guise of helping her).
As it is stated in the material, at least at the beginning, she tried to do the sex stuff just to overcome her problems and come back to MC and being able to have sex with him, remember, when she had sex the first time she thought she was cured and she could go back to him.

The objective was always to go back to him, but every step she took (and help from her "friend"), pushed her away from her target to the point of desperation.
You are correct, Isaac happened at her lowest point, but she discovered the "red bra", which gave her hope.

But the part many people miss is that her going to the deep end was an attempt from Lacey to destroy her old and weak self, the one that couldn't survive alone, the one that needed alcohol and drugs, the one that saw her father in any attempt of intimacy.
It was a process of self destruction to try a rebirth, it failed.

In my opinion the "going back to MC" took a step back during the latter periods, and the self destruction took a priority over everything, even if the two are intertwined.

You are also correct in her inability of making good choices and her selfishness, she has always been narcissistic with him, but she recognizes it even towards the end in act 1 (Lacey redemption arc starts there).



You do know that there are people that can offer critic even towards Lotr and other established masterpieces?

If the criticism present in this board was akin to "this sucks, the story sucks, the character sucks and it should have never been made" I would agree with you 100%.
But, while that is present, in most cases the criticism is well thought out and is given as feedback or for meaningful discussion.

Maviarab made a good point, imagine being an author and wanting a character to be percieved as calm and collected but all the audience percieve it as hot headed and all over the place, wouldn't that give you an indication that maybe some of the choices that looked good might not be so good after review?

And I don't even want to bring the coding or story continuity mistakes into it because it is a perfectly normal thing that can happen, but character perception is kinda important to the story that is being told.

Hell, I always find it funny to see comments like these, when some of us went out of our way to "protect" the author work in different platforms when he was being criticized unfairly.



I agree with you but I often praised the author also for the good things that he does.
I will do so now, he was able to bring an amazingly interesting story to life, pushing boundaries and bringing emotions alive, he made a very hard game to make, touching some subjects with more sublety than he is given credit for.

His control of the emotions being portrayed is great, and will lull the player along to the point where many other things fade into the background, unless you have a deviated mind like me and even I missed something like the "laugh" on my first run of act 2 because I was engrossed in the moment, which is a VERY rare occurrence.

In the entirety of act 1, the player is kept guessing, most of the stuff that happens is not what someone would expect, the tension is high and the resolutions often leave dark spots that are hard to resolve.
Even in some scenes that on closer inspection have some flaws, the emotional shock that has been created is so big that you can't look away.

I could go on talking about Lacey arc, which was build step by step, sure the steps might have been too close to each other for some, but you can see Lacey 2 shining through during act 1 too, she is my favourite character for a reason.
And if you read closely you can also understand her desperate attempts to change the situation, ok the brain damage is abused a bit as a tool, but you can perceive her goals and state of mind more than anyone else.

Anyway, I agree with 99% of what Dios said, the betrayal part is masterful and I don't even like betrayals.

I am late to the game i have one serious question. I have heard the game originally had a mc that had more choices and they were later removed. What were those choices?

 

[DeviantFun]

First and foremost.. I'm not here to argue. Just to clarify my first statement.
I think we misunderstood each other. Not saying it's not OK to offer critique. What I say is this. The story had gravity because how it was written. Mistakes and all. Quirks and blemishes. Even if author wouldn't be able to transform his story to text exactly how he wanted.

The result is a powerful mix that attracted big audience. This is his flow and this is how to story goes. I want him to follow on his own story.

What I'm worried that he will try to go back and overthink based on opinions that were not out of his head / his flow and try to compensate for something or insert complicated elements that explain stuff.. I don't want the author to look at 165 pages and fear that he didn't do something perfectly.

And most importantly I want another act soon

I understand your point, I doubt anything written here will be taken into too much of consideration.

However I hope some points could help the author make L&J even better.

What I have to disagree with is that some quirks of the story are actually detrimental, primarily the complete lack of consequences no matter how shitty some behaviours are.
It feels like those behaviours are validated and encouraged, which seems absolutely strange for an author with such emotional intelligence.

I am late to the game i have one serious question. I have heard the game originally had a mc that had more choices and they were later removed. What were those choices?

The only one that I remember is that the bastion thing was different:

• you had the choice to make bastion not happen, Lacey week away was skipped over, I don't know if the original plan plan was to make Lacey do stuff behind MC back, but I doubt it strongly, probably MC would simply not accept her cucking him
• You could refuse Anna, she will propose herself as soon as Lacey leaves the house and asks to be "the first" because it meant a lot to her, it is unclear whether damian would happen later

I can't right now, but I'll check when I get home (hopefully I will remember)

I can't think of another VN or game where I have been so invested in the characters (and I've played a few!)

I love Lacey & the MC, I desperately want them to team up together and defeat all and any adversaries.

I couldn't watch the Barty sequence, I speed read through everything until Christine solved it and I was able to breathe again!
Then and only then was I able to go back & watch that sequence, knowing that I wasn't going to lose my favourite lovers.

I don't hate any of the "crew", they are all carrying baggage, they all need love and care. Even Isaac - god he is so fucked up! I really hope he's going to become an integral part of Lacey and MC's "healing".

And please, act 3 ASAP, I'm so worried about them.
(ok, I'm too invested!)

Hehe was this your first playthrough? Glad you are enjoying it!

I am proud that I didn't fall for the video, if you try to understand Lacey you will see that she is honest in her desires, so it was absolutely out of place.

I won't comment on the crew, as there are at least 2 members that need to apologize profusely to both Lacey and MC, trauma or character is not an excuse to act like this.

Isaac has also dropped the hint that he is bi, I have a strong feeling that he might be a tag teamer at some point, even if I really dislike the idea.
I generally don't like his 180° change, it feels rushed and unnatural to me and MC weakness makes it all more glaring (the whole MC being Isaac monster was a bit on the nose).
Look you can't abuse a girl for 2 weeks and then say "look how traumatized I am" to fix it, you can't humiliate a man in front of millions of people, go to his home trying to steal his wife and then say sorry once to become best friends in one week.

I understand people carry trauma and baggages, but it is not a get out of jail for free card, it can't be.

 

[Maviarab]

Look you can't abuse a girl for 2 weeks and then say "look how traumatized I am" to fix it, you can't humiliate a man in front of millions of people, go to his home trying to steal his wife and then say sorry once to become best friends in one week.

I understand people carry trauma and baggages, but it is not a get out of jail for free card, it can't be.

 

[Digitool]

I understand your point, I doubt anything written here will be taken into too much of consideration.
...
I generally don't like his 180° change, it feels rushed and unnatural to me and MC weakness makes it all more glaring (the whole MC being Isaac monster was a bit on the nose).
Look you can't abuse a girl for 2 weeks and then say "look how traumatized I am" to fix it, you can't humiliate a man in front of millions of people, go to his home trying to steal his wife and then say sorry once to become best friends in one week.

I understand people carry trauma and baggages, but it is not a get out of jail for free card, it can't be.

Very good points, who knows - Isaac might still be an arsehole trying to get inside Lacey's pants, but I hope that isn't the case. I think the MC needs more support from characters who don't want him to fuck them.

But, we'll see.

 

[DeviantFun]

Very good points, who knows - Isaac might still be an arsehole trying to get inside Lacey's pants, but I hope that isn't the case. I think the MC needs more support from characters who don't want him to fuck them.

But, we'll see.

I am not saying Isaac is going to be an ass, his morph into a youth pastor has happened already, all that character exposition will not be wasted.

I dont know if he will have a relapse of some sort or he will be tricked, but once you join the good guys, you're a good guy, the main indicator is the absence of consequences.

Bad guys = arrested, cucked, lose jobs, sent away etc

Good guys = MAYBE a bit of shouting by MC

This has been a strong indicator thorough the story for which character we can trust or not and since Isaac got zero consequences and is now being cuddled, we can at least guess.

 

[StrongEpsilon]

In my opinion, it's wrong to delay the story of a "VN" whose main strength is the story itself. It's like starting to read a book and then taking a break for a few months just when it's getting interesting.

 

[Maviarab]

In my opinion, it's wrong to delay the story of a "VN" whose main strength is the story itself. It's like starting to read a book and then taking a break for a few months just when it's getting interesting.

This isn't delayed....

If he had not started AHfWG then there would have been an update for OTMT.....either way...this would be cycled through updates between the other regardless. If truly bothers you that much, welcome to AVN's...suggest you look for the completed tag before downloading and getting into something (and looking at post history, this is not what you think it will be).

 

[DeviantFun]

This isn't delayed....

If he had not started AHfWG then there would have been an update for OTMT.....either way...this would be cycled through updates between the other regardless. If truly bothers you that much, welcome to AVN's...suggest you look for the completed tag before downloading and getting into something (and looking at post history, this is not what you think it will be).

You know, I don't remember if I ever mentioned it, but I think dividing attention between 3 projects at a time is going to be detrimental to the final outcome.

I personally noticed a lot of shift in the characters between act 1 and act 2 for example (I know others did too), and it think it does stem from having to go back and forth between stories, so you kinda "forget" how they behave and how they should act.
I think I brought this example before, but Anna laughing or being dumbfounded during the KW while knowing perfecty how MC college life was is absolutely out of character, also posing as an avid raver is one of the most un-Anna like things I have seen.
The same thing happens to Lacey, laughing (first of all, she doesn't laugh) in Mc face like he is a muppet really doesn't fit, especially considering she knows his past and HER past (we know full well what happened at the raves eh).

Those two are not the only ones to be affected, Christine comes to mind, Jeanette becomes a backstabber and also Veronica loses her social graces.

I guess that the author is a "write as you go" guy (nothing bad with that, the Witcher series was done like that for example), but that style seems to bring the best fruits when you focus on a single thread or story, because when you take a step back, you might not remember your characters too well, a new idea comes along and everything shifts to fit that new idea.
I know an author that writes like that, but spends at least a week re reading his previous chapters to "get the feeling" right, I don't know if the professor does the same, if not, maybe it could be helpful to keep a bit more consistency. (DISCLAIMER: this is all speculation on my part, maybe he has the whole manuscript ready since day 1).

 

[Maviarab]

I guess that the author is a "write as you go" guy (nothing bad with that, the Witcher series was done like that for example), but that style seems to bring the best fruits when you focus on a single thread or story, because when you take a step back, you might not remember your characters too well, a new idea comes along and everything shifts to fit that new idea.
I know an author that writes like that, but spends at least a week re reading his previous chapters to "get the feeling" right, I don't know if the professor does the same, if not, maybe it could be helpful to keep a bit more consistency. (DISCLAIMER: this is all speculation on my part, maybe he has the whole manuscript ready since day 1).

Hmmm yeah some fair points. I've often said around this site in the past that due to the nature of episodic VN's, the very best ones (in my experience) the whole thing is pre scripted, or at the least, if not the the entire story, start, middle and end is written and then more importantly, it's stuck to fairly rigidly.

The only things I'd wish for the professor to change here really is tightening up the timeline of events. The events themselves, while ridiculous, do add to the enjoyment and are one of the reasons we're all here and so invested. However, how many times have we seen what could have been a good VN just fall apart as it seems to be made up as it goes along or the dev starts changing things away from their vision to appease subscribers etc etc? It never ends up working out well.

There is though, as you state, a huge disconnect between chapters with many characters.

 

[DeviantFun]

Hmmm yeah some fair points. I've often said around this site in the past that due to the nature of episodic VN's, the very best ones (in my experience) the whole thing is pre scripted, or at the least, if not the the entire story, start, middle and end is written and then more importantly, it's stuck to fairly rigidly.

The only things I'd wish for the professor to change here really is tightening up the timeline of events. The events themselves, while ridiculous, do add to the enjoyment and are one of the reasons we're all here and so invested. However, how many times have we seen what could have been a good VN just fall apart as it seems to be made up as it goes along or the dev starts changing things away from their vision to appease subscribers etc etc? It never ends up working out well.

There is though, as you state, a huge disconnect between chapters with many characters.

I agree, having a solid canvas to paint on will definitely make any story/VN better.

I really hope the author doesn't change his vision for subscriber appeasement, I mean, I wouldn't be against changing things that do not fit his vision.

Let me explain better, as my usual example, I doubt he wanted to create a monster when he created Mia, far from it, but then he made her cheer for SA, backstab everyone without a second thought, worsened her role in Lacey's college career and more.
But this could be applied to Anna too, heck even to MC.

 

[funnythings3785]

I just assumed most of these VN authors mapped out their story concepts from start to finish before they even started?

 

[Maviarab]

I just assumed most of these VN authors mapped out their story concepts from start to finish before they even started?

Most just make it up per update...why they end up going nowhere. At least with the professor's career, he should at the minimum have at least completely story-boarded it or written out sufficient notes as to what happens, when and where/how it ends.

 

[Doomly]

I agree, having a solid canvas to paint on will definitely make any story/VN better.

I really hope the author doesn't change his vision for subscriber appeasement, I mean, I wouldn't be against changing things that do not fit his vision.

Let me explain better, as my usual example, I doubt he wanted to create a monster when he created Mia, far from it, but then he made her cheer for SA, backstab everyone without a second thought, worsened her role in Lacey's college career and more.
But this could be applied to Anna too, heck even to MC.

I have been pondering this recently and i think the devs intention was indeed to have mia be a evil woman from the start. Let me explain.

This story, as we know, is a very non traditional netorare story in essence. The biggest difference is this one starts when the normal ending or 'devistating reveal' happens. If you take out all the childhood trauma, addiction ect., and this story started when lacey first went to college, then mia's character makes perfect sense. She would play the traditional ntr role of the new friend/mc's ex/other couples evil wife ect. whos purpose in the story is to manipulate and corrupt the loving girlfriend/wifes downfall into a mindless cock addict and destroy the mc for whatever given purpose (mia just didn't personally know the mc but was jealous and hated him)

Now this story begins after all that has already happened. The mc gets the reveal in the first chapter and is mentally destroyed, lacey is corrupted beyond repair ect.

The game seems to be about how do you undo all the trauma, corruption and devistation that has already happened. How do you undo all that if the mc is mentally damged and the girlfriend comes to her senses and goes back to the mc because she comes out of her corrupted mindbreak and desperately wants him back, but is so broken and corrupted that she struggles to be to act like a normal person again and constantly fucks up due to her corruption.

Then mia makes sense as the evil corruptor who finds out the mc was actually an innocent and good guy who has done nothing wrong, and he is suffering deeply from her previous actions in mindbreaking his girl into a depraved slut. How does she redeem herself and help the couple try to repair themselves if all mia knows is being the wicked devious corruptor and has her own past trauma. What happens if she begins to have feelings for the man she destroyed. How does she eventually become a decent human herself and what is her role in the couple eventually reaching some kind of resolution/closure.

Now throw in a ton of childhood trauma, drugs and outside forces trying to use the corrupted broken girlfriend, other women and ex's of the corrupted girlfriend each with their own motivations/connections, and this is the story in essence.

 

[Maviarab]

I have been pondering this recently and i think the devs intention was indeed to have mia be a evil woman from the start. Let me explain.

This story, as we know, is a very non traditional netorare story in essence. The biggest difference is this one starts when the normal ending or 'devistating reveal' happens. If you take out all the childhood trauma, addiction ect., and this story started when lacey first went to college, then mia's character makes perfect sense. She would play the traditional ntr role of the new friend/mc's ex/other couples evil wife ect. whos purpose in the story is to manipulate and corrupt the loving girlfriend/wifes downfall into a mindless cock addict and destroy the mc for whatever given purpose (mia just didn't personally know the mc but was jealous and hated him)

Now this story begins after all that has already happened. The mc gets the reveal in the first chapter and is mentally destroyed, lacey is corrupted beyond repair ect.

The game seems to be about how do you undo all the trauma, corruption and devistation that has already happened. How do you undo all that if the mc is mentally damged and the girlfriend comes to her senses and goes back to the mc because she comes out of her corrupted mindbreak and desperately wants him back, but is so broken and corrupted that she struggles to be to act like a normal person again and constantly fucks up due to her corruption.

Then mia makes sense as the evil corruptor who finds out the mc was actually an innocent and good guy who has done nothing wrong, and he is suffering deeply from her previous actions in mindbreaking his girl into a depraved slut. How does she redeem herself and help the couple try to repair themselves if all mia knows is being the wicked devious corruptor and has her own past trauma. What happens if she begins to have feelings for the man she destroyed. How does she eventually become a decent human herself and what is her role in the couple eventually reaching some kind of resolution/closure.

Now throw in a ton of childhood trauma, drugs and outside forces trying to use the corrupted broken girlfriend, other women and ex's of the corrupted girlfriend each with their own motivations/connections, and this is the story in essence.

Certainly a great take Doomly and definitely fits for sure.

 

[DeviantFun]

I have been pondering this recently and i think the devs intention was indeed to have mia be a evil woman from the start. Let me explain.

This story, as we know, is a very non traditional netorare story in essence. The biggest difference is this one starts when the normal ending or 'devistating reveal' happens. If you take out all the childhood trauma, addiction ect., and this story started when lacey first went to college, then mia's character makes perfect sense. She would play the traditional ntr role of the new friend/mc's ex/other couples evil wife ect. whos purpose in the story is to manipulate and corrupt the loving girlfriend/wifes downfall into a mindless cock addict and destroy the mc for whatever given purpose (mia just didn't personally know the mc but was jealous and hated him)

This is a good take, her role is clear in the story, the problem is that after all of it, she is still super friend with Lacey and even MC.

Not only that, she is the only one that can calm MC and her actions are always seen as good or with good intentions.

Maybe she was a different character in the early stages of the writing so her behaviour and tone during the messages would make sense, who knows, but it is hard to reconcile her actions and dialogue to a good "alignment" or "play acting".

Then mia makes sense as the evil corruptor who finds out the mc was actually an innocent and good guy who has done nothing wrong, and he is suffering deeply from her previous actions in mindbreaking his girl into a depraved slut. How does she redeem herself and help the couple try to repair themselves if all mia knows is being the wicked devious corruptor and has her own past trauma. What happens if she begins to have feelings for the man she destroyed. How does she eventually become a decent human herself and what is her role in the couple eventually reaching some kind of resolution/closure.

Now throw in a ton of childhood trauma, drugs and outside forces trying to use the corrupted broken girlfriend, other women and ex's of the corrupted girlfriend each with their own motivations/connections, and this is the story in essence.

She makes sense as the "standard" corruptor, but only that, she doesn't make sense in her current role, or at least the role she takes in the story, while still being always evil or at least uncaring and self absorbed.

If you think about it her own past trauma makes her a very bad choice as a corruptor, unless you consider what she says during the KW and accept that she pushed Lacey to actually help herself.
Remember, Lacey was mistreated by almost all of her partners, with Mia, a rape victim, watching and documenting gleefully.
So...how are they best friends still? Where is the regret towards what she did to Lacey? She punishes herself for it....by trying to steal her man and giving her copious amount of drugs?

She is perceived by the characters as an amazing human being, this is where the disconnect is, all of what you are saying makes sense, but it can't be reconciled with what actually happens in the story.
Anna loves her, MC loves her, Lacey loves her no matter what and even Christine, our only hope, now is super friends with her.

So she seem to not need redemption, look, she is sad literally for less than 10 lines of dialogue at the KW, then she barks 2 times and everything is fine...and then she does her best to ruin the weekend for everyone again.

Come on even her reasons to hate MC at the beginning was teen level of maturity.

I like your take and I agree on what role she covers, but I have a hard time reconciling it with what we are presented with.

 

[Doomly]

This is a good take, her role is clear in the story, the problem is that after all of it, she is still super friend with Lacey and even MC.

Not only that, she is the only one that can calm MC and her actions are always seen as good or with good intentions.

Maybe she was a different character in the early stages of the writing so her behaviour and tone during the messages would make sense, who knows, but it is hard to reconcile her actions and dialogue to a good "alignment" or "play acting".



She makes sense as the "standard" corruptor, but only that, she doesn't make sense in her current role, or at least the role she takes in the story, while still being always evil or at least uncaring and self absorbed.

If you think about it her own past trauma makes her a very bad choice as a corruptor, unless you consider what she says during the KW and accept that she pushed Lacey to actually help herself.
Remember, Lacey was mistreated by almost all of her partners, with Mia, a rape victim, watching and documenting gleefully.
So...how are they best friends still? Where is the regret towards what she did to Lacey? She punishes herself for it....by trying to steal her man and giving her copious amount of drugs?

She is perceived by the characters as an amazing human being, this is where the disconnect is, all of what you are saying makes sense, but it can't be reconciled with what actually happens in the story.
Anna loves her, MC loves her, Lacey loves her no matter what and even Christine, our only hope, now is super friends with her.

So she seem to not need redemption, look, she is sad literally for less than 10 lines of dialogue at the KW, then she barks 2 times and everything is fine...and then she does her best to ruin the weekend for everyone again.

Come on even her reasons to hate MC at the beginning was teen level of maturity.

I like your take and I agree on what role she covers, but I have a hard time reconciling it with what we are presented with.

I agree with much of what you are saying, but i think the issue is that mia hasn't had much time for character development in the story yet.

Mia was used in the first chapter mainly to reveal the extent of lacey's corrupted state. She also is the one alternate perspective to the downfall of lacey since she was the corruptor, otherwise we would only have lacey's perspective. She still is a broken messed up human at her core, maybe just as messed up as the MC and Lacey, but hides it behind her loud brash outgoing unapologetic personality. She originally wanted nothing more than to devistate the Mc, but begins to have a small amount of guilt/empathy for the mc after she meets him and he is determined to befriend her and only see the good in her catching her off guard (a character fault of the mc). At this point she is no longer the corruptor and is more of an agent of chaos.

Mia at her core is a broken shell of a human. Her past rape trauma was introduced in chapter 2 as a way to explain why she acts the way she does. Others like her because she is loud, outgoing, brash, inappropriate and unapologetic. Much like that one drunken frat guy many meet in college who is extremely talkative, loud, inappropriate, brash and does inappropriate things like hit on other's girlfriends and laugh about it like it was a joke or says borderline offensive things and laughs it off like they were just kidding. Like it or not, many are drawn to those types because of how outgoing they are, and they usually have alot of friends and aquaintances who justify their behavior with responses like 'don't be offended, thats just the way they are' ect. However, underneath mia is extremely messed up. She lacks empathy, has no filter, has a sadistic side, is disenchanted and detached from reality, and doesn't really understand love and affection due to her own personal demons. As the corruptor all she knows how to do is break down and destroy. When she sees the mc and lacey's relationship not getting better, she does the one thing she knows how to do. She tries to break lacey more hoping she can heal the mc with her own foolish plan, not fully caring or understanding about the immense damage it would cause.

My hope is in chapter three she finally shows more growth as a character. I wouldn't go so far as to say she will ever become 'good' or even 'neutral good', but at least tip her character further away from 'evil'. She needs more growth as a character for sure, but hasn't had alot of focus in the story yet due to all the messed up stuff going on with the mc and lacey, and is usually the bridge to further reveal or confirm details of lacey's college time. So far there are hints she is trending from initial 'evil' wicked corruptor toward 'chaotic neutral' as far as the story has been progressing, but we will see as the story progresses. We only have two initial chapters so far after all, and much of it has been a whirlwind of drama, conspiracies and painful reveals with a little bit of character development thrown in here and there for the main cast.

However, it is also possible the dev never intends gives mia much character development at all and her only further purpose in the story is to be an agent of chaos for drama purposes. I certainly hope not, and don't think that is the case, but it would be foolish not to acknowledge that as a possibility.

 

[funnythings3785]

While some of the characters may have hit "rock bottom" in their actions of self destruction, they haven't hit rock bottom in the realization of their issues. That is, the point where a person sees themselves through a perfect lense of who they are, what they have done, and then has an epiphany that forces a change they choose with extreme fervor.

Lacey hasn't reached this bottom as she still doesn't realize the harm she does in her solution driving, nor does Mia. They will have to have some type of "reckoning" where their actions are a horror in their own eyes that causes them to seek resolution and as it is so far, neither of them views their "past" actions as that horror.

Sure, they "talk" like they were bad, that they did wrong, etc... but no... they don't see it... as if they did, every aspect of their decisions would be guided by that understanding.

You can see this understanding in people who have reached the apex of their destruction and truly see they are the avatar of their own demise. When they reach that level of understanding, they take control and begin their healing.

Just an example, but the MC killing himself would create this level of understanding for them. I am not saying this is the route, obviously this ends the story, but that is the level of "reckoning" that has to occur to shake them to their core.

So far, I am not getting that from Lacey and Mia.

 

[Maviarab]

So far, I am not getting that from Lacey and Mia.

After what happened in Act 2....you're not going to see it either imo.

 

[Sayora]

I wonder how many fuck-ups it will take for lacey to run out of lives?

 

[DeviantFun]

I agree with much of what you are saying, but i think the issue is that mia hasn't had much time for character development in the story yet.

I am not sure, it is true that she has been used as a "story tool" but aside from MC and Lacey, she is the character with the most lines of dialogue, more than 3 times the amount of Anna for example.
We saw her development we see the changes in act 1 and from 1 to 2 and it is not good, at all.

If you mean she still didn't have a redemption arc, I agree, but like I said in my previous post, the characters do not think she needs one for some reason.

Mia was used in the first chapter mainly to reveal the extent of lacey's corrupted state. She also is the one alternate perspective to the downfall of lacey since she was the corruptor, otherwise we would only have lacey's perspective. She still is a broken messed up human at her core, maybe just as messed up as the MC and Lacey, but hides it behind her loud brash outgoing unapologetic personality. She originally wanted nothing more than to devistate the Mc, but begins to have a small amount of guilt/empathy for the mc after she meets him and he is determined to befriend her and only see the good in her catching her off guard (a character fault of the mc). At this point she is no longer the corruptor and is more of an agent of chaos.

If by brash you mean aggressive and manipulative we are in agreement, I also agree she is unapologetic and fails to recognize any sort of accountability on her part.

I am familiar with her motivations at the beginning and how they shifted over time, it still doen't make her a force of good or absolve her, not only that, but she has been an extremely unreliable narrator about the past, getting stuff wrong and misunderstanding some really basic concepts about Lacey.
I find it fitting since as time goes on the story shows how little she actually cares for her, from betraying her with the messages, to being happy about the SA, to wanting to see her crash and burn (please spare me "she wants to see the real Lacey" bullshit, she never even understood her in college), to try and break up her marriage a second time so she could "feel loved by MC".

I have to disagree on the "agent of chaos" description, she is pretty cold and calculated in her actions and has a plan in her mind, which damaged both MC and Lacey so that she can be with MC or so that Kelly could be a substitute.
If her actions were more visceral and driven by the spur of the moment, I would agree with you, but she manipulates Kelly and then Jeanette with a specific plan in mind, moving her pawns to achieve it.
But I understand the concept you are trying to express, she keeps on ruining stuff and is used as a narrative tool to create problems and drama.

Mia at her core is a broken shell of a human. Her past rape trauma was introduced in chapter 2 as a way to explain why she acts the way she does. Others like her because she is loud, outgoing, brash, inappropriate and unapologetic. Much like that one drunken frat guy many meet in college who is extremely talkative, loud, inappropriate, brash and does inappropriate things like hit on other's girlfriends and laugh about it like it was a joke or says borderline offensive things and laughs it off like they were just kidding. Like it or not, many are drawn to those types because of how outgoing they are, and they usually have alot of friends and aquaintances who justify their behavior with responses like 'don't be offended, thats just the way they are' ect. However, underneath mia is extremely messed up. She lacks empathy, has no filter, has a sadistic side, is disenchanted and detached from reality, and doesn't really understand love and affection due to her own personal demons. As the corruptor all she knows how to do is break down and destroy. When she sees the mc and lacey's relationship not getting better, she does the one thing she knows how to do. She tries to break lacey more hoping she can heal the mc with her own foolish plan, not fully caring or understanding about the immense damage it would cause.

She is not a broken shell at all, Lacey was a broken shell, even MC can be described as such, but Mia is definitely not a broken shell.
We are told others like her because she has a good heart and is a good person, only MC (stated direcyl) and Lacey (never stated directly) like her vulgarity, Anna dislikes it and Veronica was not even aware of it until the promotion celebration.

The frat guy you described sounds like an absolute asshole, kinda like Mia, and the people justifying such behaviour are usually not great either, I have seen it and tolerated it but then a treshold is surpassed and the guy gets the boot, Mia surpassed the limit long ago.

i agree on the absolute lack of empathy, even when the story tells us different (the no filter is connected to this, she simply doesn't care) but the actions are undeniable, not with you too much with the detachment from reality nor the understanding for love and affection (this we see in the story directly).

The fact that all she knows is destruction is true and is very well put, the only change I would make is that as the time goes on breaking MC and Lacey up is more for Mia herself (she states this directly, than to help MC, which is more of a side quest), and it was the case in college too if 1+1 still makes 2.

My hope is in chapter three she finally shows more growth as a character. I wouldn't go so far as to say she will ever become 'good' or even 'neutral good', but at least tip her character further away from 'evil'. She needs more growth as a character for sure, but hasn't had alot of focus in the story yet due to all the messed up stuff going on with the mc and lacey, and is usually the bridge to further reveal or confirm details of lacey's college time. So far there are hints she is trending from initial 'evil' wicked corruptor toward 'chaotic neutral' as far as the story has been progressing, but we will see as the story progresses. We only have two initial chapters so far after all, and much of it has been a whirlwind of drama, conspiracies and painful reveals with a little bit of character development thrown in here and there for the main cast.

However, it is also possible the dev never intends gives mia much character development at all and her only further purpose in the story is to be an agent of chaos for drama purposes. I certainly hope not, and don't think that is the case, but it would be foolish not to acknowledge that as a possibility.

To have her growth, she needs to go through penance and redemption, no other way about it, and yeah it might never happen so her growth will never take place.
Look at Lacey, her growth is totally tied to her keeping herself accountable for her mistakes.

Her being the bridge to the past...I am not sure, she is always wrong and never even cared to try and understand Lacey motivations, she needed pics of her getting fucked more than that it seems.

To me she started at "neutral evil" and is still on "neutral evil", selfishness, lack of empathy and throwing your friends under the bus to reach your own gain are all a perfect fit (evil characters do have friends too).

To be frank I agree with much of what you are saying, I am just going deep!