VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[DeviantFun]

I’ll reserve judgment until Act 3 releases and remain optimistic

This is a good attitude, sure let's wait and see.

Besides, us agonizing and screaming at the characters and their choises is half of what keeps us engaged, no?

To be completely honest with you? not really.

What I find engaging is the story, to the point where I do excuse some porn logic moments because in the end I see they add something of value either in storytelling or character exposition.

Seeing MC passive and having to live in a constant state of cognitive dissociation because heinous events cease to exist, are ignored or are presented as little michiefs? That is not engaging.

Be aware, I do not mind characters acting badly, Lacey going bonkers in act 1 is fine by me, fuck even how Mia acts is fine by me.
I do not care if drama is injected even somewhat forcefully sometimes, what I do care is that what we see does have an impact on the story.

The story has a nice synopsys and is "fresh" in my view but the events cannot be resolved as: event makes MC feel bad and hurts him, but now everyone involved is fine.

There have to be consequences for the actions of the characters, else you are looking at a string of events with no resolution, that gets referred to sometimes but have no impact on the story.

Hell, ignoring everything else she did, Mia tries to break up their marriage by hurting MC while he is in a delicate state (let's not add the fact that he just became director and it could hurt his career) and brings a ton of drugs to a drug addict that has issues staying off and often stated that she would commit suicide with it.

Result? nothing, she is still in the KW, she is still a great friend and she gets invited to Vegas.

WHAT. THE. FUCK. Even if you want to keep the character around as a friend, drop in some coldness, some awkwarness, anything! Show us MC has a pulse!
The event has the same lasting story impact (emotion wise) as a friend borrowing your car and scratching it.

The Bastion stuff happened recently, it is mentioned in passing like they are talking about it with the same weight as having ruined movie night by spoiling the ending.
These were traumatic events, they need to have an impact in the story aside from the initial shock value, at least make Lacey cry about it when she talks about it instead of "oh yeah I feel bad about that".

We need the actual weight behind the event, not just the front loaded shock.

I’m just wondering whether the routes will get expanded upon so see some actual deviation in the storyline depending on our choices

I hope they get to act 1 level again, I would definitely like to see the no fun starting to get shape, while punish and slut have to go a bit heavier and deeper respectively.
Slut was a great way to explore the past to the point I suggested for a first playthrough, punish was a great way to express MC anger (calling someone sweet angel is not exactly what was set up initially).

A bit more initiative from MC would be nice too, it should be his healing path, yet it goes at Lacey's pace.

I'm going to remain optimistic just because it's been stated in game several times that MC needs therapy. Lacey even speculates that MC is afraid a therapist would tell him he's the problem instead of her. So I obviously could be wrong, but I feel like the author is intentionally writing MC in this way. His "epiphanies" are simply rationalizations

Absolutely, but we need to see it at some point, and tbh the epiphany is exactly what Lacey has been telling him since day 1 so I am not sure how the author considers it, but I do hope you are right.

Just a correction, MC was scared that Lacey's therapist would say that he was a problem for her, not any therapist.

MC doesn't want to face Lacey's (and his) past properly, see Dianne dialogue at MC house.


EDIT:
Now Crysus made me paranoid, I hope the message is clear and not perceived as a bashing of any sort.

 

[Maviarab]

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

Nothing else needs saying...at all.

 

[DeviantFun]

Nothing else needs saying...at all.

Actually? there is a bit to say still, I don't want folks to perceive what I hope is constructive criticism as bashing.
Here is what could have been done to deal with the Lacey - Mia situation:

it could have been a great moment of Lacey and Mia facing each other, their relationship could have come out stronger, the issues and misunderstandings resolved to give a better and more resilient friendship.

Have them really duke it out in the open air, "Mia has been properly chastized" (which we see later that is not even remotely true) does not address the main issue between these two characters:

• Mia never understood Lacey's needs or mentality
• Lacey never faced the fact that Mia, while helping, really did a number to her

The discussion could have steered over Mia understanding and accepting that she fucked up very much and ruined Lacey's life by being selfish and thinking about herself / thinking she had the solution to her problems, TRULY facing the facts that her plan and mentality it is not only flawed, but it is harmful to the people she supposedly care about very much.
And to quote Christine: she will have to pay for it for the rest of her life, as the people she tortured will.

Lacey on the other hand could express how much she relied on her until now and how much she actually felt cared for or whatever. (I don't agree with this, I am pulling stuff from the material).
Saying that she accept Mia as she is because she understands how much she cares for her and is grateful that she cares about MC.
On the same vein as Mia, Lacey should take partial responsibility and tell Mia that she will share the payment, she too is guilty by being so easily swindled by a predator (forcing a traumatized girl into gangbangs or even only proposing them is predator behaviour, so willingly or unwillingly Mia was just that).

This is obviously a short description, because it is a very important topic in the VN and should be addressed properly and I don't even agree with most the concepts they would be sharing with each other, Mia is compromised to crazy levels to most people eyes, but I am trying to go with what the material is trying to do.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

Actually? there is a bit to say still, I don't want folks to perceive what I hope is constructive criticism as bashing.
Here is what could have been done to deal with the Lacey - Mia situation:

it could have been a great moment of Lacey and Mia facing each other, their relationship could have come out stronger, the issues and misunderstandings resolved to give a better and more resilient friendship.

Have them really duke it out in the open air, "Mia has been properly chastized" (which we see later that is not even remotely true) does not address the main issue between these two characters:

• Mia never understood Lacey's needs or mentality
• Lacey never faced the fact that Mia, while helping, really did a number to her

The discussion could have steered over Mia understanding and accepting that she fucked up very much and ruined Lacey's life by being selfish and thinking about herself / thinking she had the solution to her problems, TRULY facing the facts that her plan and mentality it is not only flawed, but it is harmful to the people she supposedly care about very much.
And to quote Christine: she will have to pay for it for the rest of her life, as the people she tortured will.

Lacey on the other hand could express how much she relied on her until now and how much she actually felt cared for or whatever. (I don't agree with this, I am pulling stuff from the material).
Saying that she accept Mia as she is because she understands how much she cares for her and is grateful that she cares about MC.
On the same vein as Mia, Lacey should take partial responsibility and tell Mia that she will share the payment, she too is guilty by being so easily swindled by a predator (forcing a traumatized girl into gangbangs or even only proposing them is predator behaviour, so willingly or unwillingly Mia was just that).

This is obviously a short description, because it is a very important topic in the VN and should be addressed properly and I don't even agree with most the concepts they would be sharing with each other, Mia is compromised to crazy levels to most people eyes, but I am trying to go with what the material is trying to do.

This would be a nice solution and i could even see a retcon where this is added to the kitchen discussion with the ketamine they had in a future update.
We only ever see the start of that discussion, so it also wouldn’t ruin anything by making it longer

 

[gino.pilotino]

One of the things I hate most about MC is that he starts ranting a thousand times, threatening to leave, and at the end of the scene he never does.
At the end of the scene, he always decides to stay. For God's sake, leave for at least half a day. Go for a walk and make her believe you're really leaving. Spend a night in a hotel and come back the next day. But no!!! I'm leaving, I'm leaving, I'M LEAVING... OK, fine, I'll stay.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

One of the things I hate most about MC is that he starts ranting a thousand times, threatening to leave, and at the end of the scene he never does.
At the end of the scene, he always decides to stay. For God's sake, leave for at least half a day. Go for a walk and make her believe you're really leaving. Spend a night in a hotel and come back the next day. But no!!! I'm leaving, I'm leaving, I'M LEAVING... OK, fine, I'll stay.

He literally did that twice, staying at Kelly’s hotel

 

[DeviantFun]

He literally did that twice, staying at Kelly’s hotel

Haha true but one was not by choice and Lacey was not home!

(I'll change my handle to PedanticFun....)

 

[Diosvincenccio]

One of the things I hate most about MC is that he starts ranting a thousand times, threatening to leave, and at the end of the scene he never does.

Well, he gets convinced by the girls "friends" to stay, and even from girls that should be happy that he wants to leave. Im looking at you Anna. And if not, theres always the suicide threat. In case the "sorry for backstabing you and causing you everlasting pain, it was a betrayal made out of love" dosent work.

For God's sake, leave for at least half a day. Go for a walk and make her believe you're really leaving. Spend a night in a hotel and come back the next day.

Hey, look what happened when he took ONE day off. Now imagine he took a week of vacations, away from everyone to think about the Lacey shenanigans and all that. Hell would break loose. The doormat could even start to have independent toughts about his life. Now jokes aside. It would make him a lot of good and even could come back with some resolve to get actual answers and seek penance/redemption from the girls. But the girls would panick, with all the pain all of them caused leaving him alone wouldnt be on their interest. Better keep an eye on him, make him bottle up his emotions, chastice him for his emotional outburst and make him develope an ulcer out of stress or a heart attack, you know... like good men do.

Haha true but one was not by choice and Lacey was not home!

DF always first.

And the other dosent, since Kelly informed Lacey that MC was there with her. Should have let her keep guessing where is MC. Make her wonder if it was the one too much and he really decided to leave.

 

[Maviarab]

Make her wonder if it was the one too much and he really decided to leave.

Or if he was pounding the outsider through the floor

 

[funnythings3785]

Wouldn't it be nice at the end of the story if he planned out some massive plan to leave it all behind, but doing so in a way that gives him peace of mind, yet also gives everyone a measure of what they deserve? I don't know what he should do or exactly what everyone deserves, but I think back to the Jared plan he pulled off which was pretty clever. What if he did something thought out that some how produced that "So long and thanks for all the fish" type of walk away?

Now that would be a nice close...

 

[MyUserName1234]

I'm sorry but this is completely wrong.

This is the biggest mix of copium, mental gymnastics and delusion I have ever seen since superman 3 when he turns back time by spinning the earth in the opposite direction.

That was Superman 1.

 

[DeviantFun]

I had some chats about L&J, and we touched upon a point that I think is forgotten.

We spoke often abput how events and actions usually do not have impactful consequences, MC and the story go on like nothing never happened aside from maybe a small mention here and there (punish parh for example).

We also spoke about how Lacey has nothing to offer in the relationship, MC realized that there is nothing exclusively theirs.

Incidentally this is actually a real issue that pornstars face in relationships, where intimacy is very devalued and their relationships actually fail because sex and intimacy are a great bonding tool.

Anyway, as far as we know, Lacey did a lot of stuff, but she says that she saved her kiss for him.
This is obviously a small consolation but could be seen as a last effort to keep something for MC, something sweet and intimate.

BASTION HAS ENTERED THE ROOM.

I don't know why this is not touched upon more, but after Bastion, MC and Lacey have nothing to themselves, the one sweet thing they had has been completely perverted in a forced and humiliating cuck play.
This is a pretty big thing that is almost skipped, and the concept is underlined again in the JD (one could argue that the kiss was already ruined anyway) but never "felt".

I am.at the office so I don't have all the files at hand, but I do remember some discussions about this (in a phonecall and then when Lacey gets home iirc), MC saying that he didn't kiss anyone knowing how important it was and so on.

But I think the situation could benefit from some changes in MC behaviour: avoiding Lacey's kisses, or kissing in a dismissive way at least for a while after she comes back for example.

This event was way more important than it was given credit for, MC being stripped of the only thing that was his and his alone and I don't think the story gives it enough weight.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

I had some chats about L&J, and we touched upon a point that I think is forgotten.

We spoke often abput how events and actions usually do not have impactful consequences, MC and the story go on like nothing never happened aside from maybe a small mention here and there (punish parh for example).

We also spoke about how Lacey has nothing to offer in the relationship, MC realized that there is nothing exclusively theirs.

Incidentally this is actually a real issue that pornstars face in relationships, where intimacy is very devalued and their relationships actually fail because sex and intimacy are a great bonding tool.

Anyway, as far as we know, Lacey did a lot of stuff, but she says that she saved her kiss for him.
This is obviously a small consolation but could be seen as a last effort to keep something for MC, something sweet and intimate.

BASTION HAS ENTERED THE ROOM.

I don't know why this is not touched upon more, but after Bastion, MC and Lacey have nothing to themselves, the one sweet thing they had has been completely perverted in a forced and humiliating cuck play.
This is a pretty big thing that is almost skipped, and the concept is underlined again in the JD (one could argue that the kiss was already ruined anyway) but never "felt".

I am.at the office so I don't have all the files at hand, but I do remember some discussions about this (in a phonecall and then when Lacey gets home iirc), MC saying that he didn't kiss anyone knowing how important it was and so on.

But I think the situation could benefit from some changes in MC behaviour: avoiding Lacey's kisses, or kissing in a dismissive way at least for a while after she comes back for example.

This event was way more important than it was given credit for, MC being stripped of the only thing that was his and his alone and I don't think the story gives it enough weight.

I feel like I’ve been sporadically commenting about this for months, just maybe not as thoroughly

I was mainly focused on the images in the game, as there isn’t a single image of MC & Lacey kissing, given the importance of the Act, and only ones with Damien, Morty and the Deepfake Vid, which i find weird

Like Maviarab I am also sceptical that she actually saved her first kiss for the MC. At best i believe she doesn’t remember kissing anybody in her dissociated state in college, at worst, she is gaslighting MC into believing she at least saved something special just for MC, which as DeviantFun states, got ruined after the fact anyway

 

[DeviantFun]

I feel like I’ve been sporadically commenting about this for months, just maybe not as thoroughly

I was mainly focused on the images in the game, as there isn’t a single image of MC & Lacey kissing, given the importance of the Act, and only ones with Damien, Morty and the Deepfake Vid, which i find weird

Like Maviarab I am also sceptical that she actually saved her first kiss for the MC. At best i believe she doesn’t remember kissing anybody in her dissociated state in college, at worst, she is gaslighting MC into believing she at least saved something special just for MC, which as DeviantFun states, got ruined after the fact anyway

Eh, you know how I am, logically you are absolutely right, just think about the 3 weeks with Isaac: watching movies, laughing around and fucking constantly and not even a peck on the lips? The oh so romantic Lorenzo? Stephen's trio?
Even without going to stolen kisses where she was out of her mind and ra...i mean fucked by the college guys, it is extrenely improbable that she never kissed.

We don't have any further proof because Mia wasn't interested in that, as it didn't help her.
So the material tells us that it didn't happen and we can't prove otherwise.

Anyway you are right, whether it happened or not, the reality is that now the whole kissing thing is lost.

They have nothing.

 

[funnythings3785]

I had some chats about L&J, and we touched upon a point that I think is forgotten.

We spoke often abput how events and actions usually do not have impactful consequences, MC and the story go on like nothing never happened aside from maybe a small mention here and there (punish parh for example).

We also spoke about how Lacey has nothing to offer in the relationship, MC realized that there is nothing exclusively theirs.

Incidentally this is actually a real issue that pornstars face in relationships, where intimacy is very devalued and their relationships actually fail because sex and intimacy are a great bonding tool.

Anyway, as far as we know, Lacey did a lot of stuff, but she says that she saved her kiss for him.
This is obviously a small consolation but could be seen as a last effort to keep something for MC, something sweet and intimate.

BASTION HAS ENTERED THE ROOM.

I don't know why this is not touched upon more, but after Bastion, MC and Lacey have nothing to themselves, the one sweet thing they had has been completely perverted in a forced and humiliating cuck play.
This is a pretty big thing that is almost skipped, and the concept is underlined again in the JD (one could argue that the kiss was already ruined anyway) but never "felt".

I am.at the office so I don't have all the files at hand, but I do remember some discussions about this (in a phonecall and then when Lacey gets home iirc), MC saying that he didn't kiss anyone knowing how important it was and so on.

But I think the situation could benefit from some changes in MC behaviour: avoiding Lacey's kisses, or kissing in a dismissive way at least for a while after she comes back for example.

This event was way more important than it was given credit for, MC being stripped of the only thing that was his and his alone and I don't think the story gives it enough weight.

Yes... Bastion I think is the most damaging of all in this. Lacey knows the MC, VERY WELL... she KNEW he was getting angry when she was reacting with Bastion. She KNEW when he pushed her on, that this is NOT what he actually wanted... and she could at the time she was trying to call him over to come get her, simply called it off... walked away and talked with the MC about this. Even if the MC actually wanted her to do it, she should have refused specifically because this is an important thing they shared between each other.

It blows my mind, considering all that has occurred that Lacey wouldn't fight to keep that very thing sacred, regardless if the MC wanted it or not. She KNOWS this was the only thing left, the only thing she can provide him that is theirs (if we believe her past stories).

The fact that she so easily "gave it away" makes me suspicious of her previous claims, that she was just placating the MC to give him the illusion that there is still something she can offer in this intimacy. That the reality is she is used up in this currency and no longer can purchase that which is an important part in his interaction with his love.

It shows just how selfish she is, how little she cares for the MC when it comes to his needs in this matter. Sure, she gives a nice little story about how she cares, how she can't live without him, etc... but those are words and when it came to actual actions, the meat of proving ones words have meaning, she failed... utterly.

This is why ACT 3 has me concerned. If it focuses on the MC healing his own issues, then the story has missed who the true victim is here. While I get angry at how stupid the MC acts, how he beats himself up, how he essentially cucks out with those he should be shunning, the reality is IMO he is not the bad guy, he is truly the victim in this.

Lacey created each of her own problems starting from the moment she lied to him about going to college. At any moment, she could (as they both agree) sought his council on her issue and he would have found a way, just like he found a way with all the rules as they were growing up. She chose to hurt him then, continued to CHOOSE to hurt him in college, did things she KNEW would destroy him, and then entrapped him in a hell of her own making, doing exactly what she has done since she was a child, using him to soothe her damage.

The difference is, she had some honesty and legitimacy that doesn't fault her when she was a child, but college, the lie of marriage, etc... were ALL her own making and her seeking him as the crutch she had as a child was now an act of intent in abuse on him she perpetuated WILLINGLY. She was the self abuser who chose to abuse another simply to hide from her own self created horrors.

Add in how every one of the women have acted in the past ACTs and it is they who should be groveling, seeking HIS desire for them to be better, not their ideas as to how he should adjust himself with yet another condition, rule, or exception so he can "accept" their abuse of him.

If the MC is to find "healing", to find some sort of "understanding" here, it needs to be that he recognizes this, that they are all truly at fault here... and he should seek for them to TRULY come to terms with this, not with words, but with actions... not with trying to get him to "understand", but with them actually learning to truly understand him.

The reality is, I don't think they want to, because understanding that brings to bare the true reality of the damage they caused him and the very real understanding that this likely can't be fixed, or if it can... not in a way where they come out happy with their roles in his life.

So it really is so far a story about a bunch of narcists trying to find a way where they can have their cake and eat it too. Which will only serve to destroy the MC. That is what IMO will make the MC "coming to terms" seem like fanciful writing that will feel forced to a resolution that will make no sense.

Who knows though, maybe the professor has something up his sleeve, so time will tell, but I am not encouraged.

 

[SayoraSaint]

Eh, you know how I am, logically you are absolutely right, just think about the 3 weeks with Isaac: watching movies, laughing around and fucking constantly and not even a peck on the lips? The oh so romantic Lorenzo? Stephen's trio?
Even without going to stolen kisses where she was out of her mind and ra...i mean fucked by the college guys, it is extrenely improbable that she never kissed.

We don't have any further proof because Mia wasn't interested in that, as it didn't help her.
So the material tells us that it didn't happen and we can't prove otherwise.

Anyway you are right, whether it happened or not, the reality is that now the whole kissing thing is lost.

They have nothing.

I think it's the height of hypocrisy to say you saved your first kiss for your loved one when you've kissed and sucked other people's dicks.
Maybe they're talking about some magical kiss, but it looks like it's just another lie added to the pile from our 'favorite' slut.

And by the end of the second chapter, I got the impression that lacey's words are basically untrustworthy. She lies like she breathes, and if she's not lying, she's distorting the facts, so it would be better if she were lying.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

I think it's the height of hypocrisy to say you saved your first kiss for your loved one when you've kissed and sucked other people's dicks.
Maybe they're talking about some magical kiss, but it looks like it's just another lie added to the pile from our 'favorite' slut.

And by the end of the second chapter, I got the impression that lacey's words are basically untrustworthy. She lies like she breathes, and if she's not lying, she's distorting the facts, so it would be better if she were lying.

I honestly want to believe that things are a bit more complicated than that.
Yes she lies and gaslights a lot, which we know is tied to her narcissism and dependency on MC

But i hope, that going forward we see more situations, where she isn’t telling the truth, unaware, because she Hasn’t admitted the truth to herself yet (e.g. the “I KNEW” dialogue) or because she has been lying to herself for so long, she doesn’t know what the truth is anymore. Maybe due to trauma or from when she was in a dissociated state, and she is filling in the blanks with what she would like to be the truth. As i stated, I am hoping the MC wasn’t her first kiss after all, bonus points, is if she wasn’t actually lying but discovers the truth together with MC and is mortified

 

[SayoraSaint]

About lacey.
I remembered a wise fairy tale.
- A frog and a scorpion met on the bank of a river. The scorpion began to ask the frog to take him across. But the frog refused.
"You're a scorpion, you'll sting me."
The scorpion begged and promised he wouldn't sting.
Finally, the frog believed him and decided to help.
But halfway across, she felt pain and a sting in her back.
Then she turned to the scorpion and asked, "Why? You promised you wouldn't sting."
And the scorpion replied, "I can't do otherwise, I'm a scorpion."

 

[DeviantFun]

I think it's the height of hypocrisy to say you saved your first kiss for your loved one when you've kissed and sucked other people's dicks.
Maybe they're talking about some magical kiss, but it looks like it's just another lie added to the pile from our 'favorite' slut.

And by the end of the second chapter, I got the impression that lacey's words are basically untrustworthy. She lies like she breathes, and if she's not lying, she's distorting the facts, so it would be better if she were lying.

Logically, you are right, but I do see the emotional difference.

It might be small, insignificant even in the grand scheme of things, but it does have an emotional value.

Emotional cheating is statistically more hurtful than physical by the way.

So I think it does have a significance, and if you think about it the most hurtful part for MC was not the sex altogether but also what was said. ( which has a weak in game explanation but it is there, my headcanon was that Lacey was getring off by triggering MC jealousy)

 

[Maviarab]

Anyway guys...we need something more lighthearted to discuss....too much heavy shit in this thread of late...so I'm starting a gambling den.

Winner gets a free...mention of my adoration (trust me, that's worth at least 3 cheese burgers in todays economy)!

The succubus doing something dumb (again) 1/10
The pimp saying something dumb (again) Evens
The succubus not attending 'therapy' in 2 days odds on
MC having another memory meltdown 5/1
The succubus has been in Isaac's house 10-1
Depravity McMansion cameras being used against the succubus in some way 25-1 22-1
Stephen (with a 'ph') being in Vegas 50/1
Any of the crew gaslighting the MC 50/1
The Banshee being assaulted/kidnapped/drugged or other 100/1


You have your runners ladies and gentlemen...pick your winner!