VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[DeviantFun]

But Lacey's own words and admittance...are you going to go against those?

Would also fit lovely. She the one actually using Mia (after Mia initially pushed her) but once that happened...Lacey blameless....was all Mia's fault....not miiiine my love (flutters eyelashes at MC)

I would always accept accountability from anyone that behaved badly and realizes they need to do better, they might not have a chance with me anymore, but it is good for their future.

Let me try and make a stupid example, I could go over the speed limit and crash my car, would you take into account that I was rushing to the hospital for an emergency, it was my choice and my mistake, yet I was under some circumstances that clouded my ability to make a good choice.

Add to this that I had a "friend" in the car that kept on shouting that if I don't go faster I might miss my chance and that they are a rally navigator, they know the road well and can help me out (we end in a ditch after taking the wrong turn 15 times thanks to the suggestions).

So you see, I accept that Lacey admits it and it is true and will always be true, but her responsability and accountability does NOT erase the responsability from Mia.

We know she approached Lacey in a moment of weakness, we know she exploited that and insisted a lot, we know she cemented her position with her to the point where it was important for Lacey to make her happy (she was her only friend).

We know that it was just a game for her.

Not to date myself, but those two games were not big when I was in school and college. It was mostly Truth or Dare and quarters.

It was just a curiosity, we played very different drinking games and even then most of the time there were not games at all, just talking and getting wasted/high.

Yes, she did have some fun. But, when you are talking about depression people who are depressed will still have fun and alot of the times after they have that fun they will feel guilty for having it.
Lacey made it through the severe depression she had through college and she would probably tell you college was a horrible time for her, but that doesn't mean that there weren't good days or good parts. I don't think it's a lie for her to say it was all bad even if there were good parts.

I disagree, you see, Lacey presented the whole experience as miserable to the point where she didn't get out of the room high on K to go and fuck whatever Mia decided she had to fuck that week.

In reality, from the new information, she was living an almost "normal" college life in junior year, with a lot of slutting it out sprinkled on top (more dumped but you get what I mean), which makes the slutting it out even more seedy (I know and accept some of her reasoning).

This brings me to a point you might have missed about Lacey, she loves portraying herself as the victim, so everything was bad everyone was bad, yet she was having tons of fun in the meantime.

If you remember just a few posts ago I made a sort of explanation on how Lacey lies, her lies tend to always paint her as the victim.

I am sorry but Mc needs more honesty from her.

Yes, the game was another poor choice by Lacey. And even worse because her "friends" didn't stop and say, "you know that game can get pretty mean right?" And then nobody even thought, "you know Lacey wants this to be touch on some uncomfortable topics without turning things bad. I think I can think of some questions to do that.

Well, I might be too critical of her, she did try to make something fun (and fucked it up in true Lacey's fashion), I blame the girls more than I blame her.

I forgot to mention this, but yes. What was the deal with the "Special Instructions".

They might resurface, Lacey is not happy on how the KW went (it was objectively a disaster even before the video), so those might come up again, hopefully.

This is textbook victim blaming.

"oh you got raped, well you shouldn't have wore that dress". "you shouldn't have gone to that party". "you shouldn't have hung out with that guy. Everyone knows he's a player"
"abused by husband/relative?" "you should have left them" "you should have told someone" "what did you do to to make them do it?"

Yes, but it is even worse than that, you see what you posted is more akin to having given good advice that wasn't followed or at least frustration at what happened.

Mia PUSHED Lacey to do all that, after all it was not her ass on the line, for her it was just a game.

I do see gradual growth. He is not getting angry and running away from every comment. And he has had a couple of moments like standing up to Isaac in the bar. And I loved how he and Lacey handled Will in front of their apartment.
But I get your point and most of the time he just lies there and takes it. He's been the punching bag his whole life. Once he is able to get over his flight response I do hope he is able to start standing up to people.

Accepting things sitting down and devaluing and invalidating your feelings is not growth, it is involution, and luckily it is presented as such also in the story (dianne at home dialogue).

MC stood up to Isaac in the most verbose rap battle I have ever seen , but I still wouldn't call that growth.

And the Will treatment...well I guess it could be fun, it is personal taste.

But you misunderstand, MC was not a punching bag his whole life, he is a punching bag for Lacey and this story prevents any female character to face any consequences (I made a list some time ago), but if you are male, MC will come for you, he is able to stand up to people just fine.

Do y'all think she was feeding on her parents and MC as a child?
The way I see it is she was a broken victim, who went through a shit life.

100% Lacey as a child was surviving and had a horrible life, being a psychic vampire is because of that and only because she feels that MC is the only person that TRULY cared for her more than anything else.

She latched (direct quote) to him and needs him, his jealousy outbursts are llike gold for her as they make her feel that he wants to keep her close and will never let her go.

She went to college and for the first two years nothing but school and depression. In the second year she found drugs and alcohol.
In her third year, someone came to the school looking for a snack. Someone who needed to feed and they found a broken girl who they could mold into the perfect person to use to feed. She even convinced her victim that it was all her fault and that she was the one feeding off of the sex and guys while she stood behind her pulling the energy through her so she herself could feed.
Then a wrench is thrown into things, her tool decides to clean herself up. She still manages to arrange gangbangs, but it's not the same and she manages to get her victim to fall of the wagon a number of times, but it's still not enough and that's when she introduces her to Isaac and he has a 3 week feeding frenzy off of our victim. It is all going great when tragedy strikes and a phone call comes in to Lacey.
Now Mia is doing everything she can to stay close to her victim and feed when she can.

No I don't think this is really happening, but it's a fun distraction.

the first part is all confirmed in the material tho.

 

[Diosvincenccio]

I'm not really committed to the whole succubus theory.

No, not a real succubus, (at least we hope that its never used in a literal meaning) we use the nicknames succubus or banshee (for example) just as an allegory to represent their attitude, for Lacey her sexual drive and manipulations and her need for emotions, specially jealosy and desire, match the supernatural creature. The nicknames precede the Augusta game.

Althrough when the Augusta game came out, and stablished the supernatural as canon in the L&J world, i (we) had some dark thoughts.

 

[Maviarab]

What was the deal with the "Special Instructions"

Well we never found out did we...as it ended early Sat evening instead of Sun night/Mon morning...

Ok, I'll play the game, but I'm not really committed to the whole succubus theory. But anyway.

Dios above beat me to it. I came up with that name long before we even knew the prof was going to make another game...then there was a poll of three ideas/story's....Augusta's won. Then we found out what was in it hahahaha....

So the succubus is just a term of her sucking upo the MC's happiness and 'feeding' off his emotions....nothing more...well, that we're aware of at least.

 

[qwerty676767]

So is there a date for Act 3 update, and is Act 3 the end of the game?

 

[Maviarab]

So is there a date for Act 3 update, and is Act 3 the end of the game?

No and no.

Search function exists!

 

[Pugthulhu]

It was just a curiosity, we played very different drinking games and even then most of the time there were not games at all, just talking and getting wasted/high.

That was most of my parties in college as well. And I saw my share of Laceys at those parties getting wasted and being passed around.

I disagree, you see, Lacey presented the whole experience as miserable to the point where she didn't get out of the room high on K to go and fuck whatever Mia decided she had to fuck that week.

It's good to disagree and I don't mind being wrong. I have not spent as much time going through the material as most here and I can accept that I've gotten things wrong.

In reality, from the new information, she was living an almost "normal" college life in junior year, with a lot of slutting it out sprinkled on top (more dumped but you get what I mean), which makes the slutting it out even more seedy (I know and accept some of her reasoning).

And maybe this is where I did get things wrong.

My impression was that most of her Junior year was a K-hole. She tried cleaning herself up but still did not stop the sex parties. Her senior year she continued and fell off the wagon until Isaac.

With the MC she has tries to make the things she did not look as bad and end up making things worse because of it. Is she doing this for selfish reasons because she's afraid of loosing the MC, Yes she is. Is she doing them to try to make the MC hurt less by her past, Yes she is. The Lacey haters will lean more toward selfish motives. I find myself leaning more the other way and probably to far. The truth lies in the middle.
In a way I can see her as trying to be to the MC now, what he was to her during her childhood. She is trying to protect him from being hurt by her past. She just can't seem to learn that it makes it worse.

Question: Is there a place in the material where she was still attending those parties after the cliffs? Not trying to start anything with this I'm just curious. Looking at the timeline I guess there is just a few months of school for her after the cliffs. It felt like there was more, but that' probably because we are seeing it form the MC and he had another semester.
So, I'll ask another question between the cliffs and her knocking on the MCs door have we learned yet of any partners she had? I would not be surprised if she did and I expect it, but I don't think we know of it yet.

This brings me to a point you might have missed about Lacey, she loves portraying herself as the victim, so everything was bad everyone was bad, yet she was having tons of fun in the meantime.

Earlier you made this comment:

So you see, I accept that Lacey admits it and it is true and will always be true, but her responsability and accountability does NOT erase the responsability from Mia.

So I will say, just because she loves to make herself the viction does not mean whe wan't a victim. Just because she had fun, and maybe alot of fun doesn't mean she wasn't hurting the entire time. Her biggest failure is not what she did in her past, it's how she chose to tell the MC about it.
Now I hate Mia, and I could say that Lacey didn't have a choice to tell him because Mia did it, but Lacey had plenty of time to tell him at least part of it. She should have started telling him as soon as she told him she hadn't had any boyfriends. But if she had done that the game wouldn't have 188 pages of comments talking about the succubus.

Well, I might be too critical of her, she did try to make something fun (and fucked it up in true Lacey's fashion), I blame the girls more than I blame her.

Yes, and I know that I am not critical enough. Once again the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

She latched (direct quote) to him and needs him, his jealousy outbursts are llike gold for her as they make her feel that he wants to keep her close and will never let her go.

Primarily I'm thinking about the literal succubus talk.
But yes, succubus fits her to a tee. She did literally say she was feeding off of the MC jealousy.

I just think that calling Mia "The Pimp" is going to easy on her. She is far more nafarious than just being a Pimp and she was feeding off of Lacey's sex as much as Lacey was feeding off of the guys.
In fact, I would say that Lacey is the journeyman succubus apprenticed to Mia, the Master succubus. The question is, has the aprentice surpassed the master? I don't think so.

 

[mariorossi69cm]

We are almost in november, can't wait for the update!! Anybody knows if there is some news from the dev?

 

[DeviantFun]

It's good to disagree and I don't mind being wrong. I have not spent as much time going through the material as most here and I can accept that I've gotten things wrong.

I wasn't saying it to put you down, I enjoy discussing and the sharing of opinions, helps me expand my understanding.

For example, I realized that the only way Lacey could have learned these type of games was during college.

And maybe this is where I did get things wrong.

My impression was that most of her Junior year was a K-hole. She tried cleaning herself up but still did not stop the sex parties. Her senior year she continued and fell off the wagon until Isaac.

Yes this is the impression, the clean up was at the end of junior year, just before Isaac.

But you hit my point exactly, it is an impression, because obviously she did much more.

With the MC she has tries to make the things she did not look as bad and end up making things worse because of it. Is she doing this for selfish reasons because she's afraid of loosing the MC, Yes she is. Is she doing them to try to make the MC hurt less by her past, Yes she is. The Lacey haters will lean more toward selfish motives. I find myself leaning more the other way and probably to far. The truth lies in the middle.
In a way I can see her as trying to be to the MC now, what he was to her during her childhood. She is trying to protect him from being hurt by her past. She just can't seem to learn that it makes it worse.

I think both of the things you mention are extremely intertwined, she doesn't want to lose him so she doesn't want to hurt him.
Lacey in the end is a sensitive girl that really doesn't want to hurt anyone, especially MC.

The only thing I don't like is when a person has an easy out (calling MC or staying with him) and doesn't take it, but this is more of a personal thing and the same applies to MC.

Question: Is there a place in the material where she was still attending those parties after the cliffs? Not trying to start anything with this I'm just curious. Looking at the timeline I guess there is just a few months of school for her after the cliffs. It felt like there was more, but that' probably because we are seeing it form the MC and he had another semester.
So, I'll ask another question between the cliffs and her knocking on the MCs door have we learned yet of any partners she had? I would not be surprised if she did and I expect it, but I don't think we know of it yet.

Nope, as far as we know Isaac was the end of it, Lacey worked hard to get clean and has a chaste senior year (this is why I say she is not a sex addict, she had troubles getting clean from K, didn't have a secound thought about sex).

So I will say, just because she loves to make herself the viction does not mean whe wan't a victim. Just because she had fun, and maybe alot of fun doesn't mean she wasn't hurting the entire time. Her biggest failure is not what she did in her past, it's how she chose to tell the MC about it.
Now I hate Mia, and I could say that Lacey didn't have a choice to tell him because Mia did it, but Lacey had plenty of time to tell him at least part of it. She should have started telling him as soon as she told him she hadn't had any boyfriends. But if she had done that the game wouldn't have 188 pages of comments talking about the succubus.

You misunderstand me, to me Lacey is a tragic character and recognize her victim status fully, heck I dislike MC a lot and I still consider him a victim (of Lacey).

I agree fully with the fact that she was not well even in junior year, I made this point often, she was miserable and desperate.
What we uncovered, is that it is not all like she said, remember the "How many boyfriends did you have?" this is exactly like it.

Her biggest mistake was leaving and ghosting MC, he was the solution, she knew it and still chose to be stubborn (another of Lacey's strong traits).
Not being honest obviously comes as a close second, Mia betrayed her hard and instead of working with her to find a way to ease MC to the truth (before marriage please) she went behind her back.

Primarily I'm thinking about the literal succubus talk.
But yes, succubus fits her to a tee. She did literally say she was feeding off of the MC jealousy.

I just think that calling Mia "The Pimp" is going to easy on her. She is far more nafarious than just being a Pimp and she was feeding off of Lacey's sex as much as Lacey was feeding off of the guys.
In fact, I would say that Lacey is the journeyman succubus apprenticed to Mia, the Master succubus. The question is, has the aprentice surpassed the master? I don't think so.

Lacey admits she feeds on any of MC's strong emotions....tbh it looks like her favourite dish are the negative ones .

Heh you are a man going for my own heart, no Lacey could never surpass Mia level of evil.

Mia has been written as a total scumbag.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

Question: Is there a place in the material where she was still attending those parties after the cliffs? Not trying to start anything with this I'm just curious. Looking at the timeline I guess there is just a few months of school for her after the cliffs. It felt like there was more, but that' probably because we are seeing it form the MC and he had another semester.
So, I'll ask another question between the cliffs and her knocking on the MCs door have we learned yet of any partners she had? I would not be surprised if she did and I expect it, but I don't think we know of it yet.

According to the material, the cliffs and Isaac were at the end of junior year
Mavi’s fixed timeline puts Isaac in senior year instead, which is a bit of a point of contention and am waiting on evidence in future releases to either confirm or disprove the theory

According to the material, the parties stopped even before Isaac, and no sex of any kind after.
Not that we necessarily believe that part

 

[CrysusPariah2]

Primarily I'm thinking about the literal succubus talk.
But yes, succubus fits her to a tee. She did literally say she was feeding off of the MC jealousy.

We never mean in literally, always only a nickname.
That’s why i said a while back, we needed to stop using these nicknames, as they are just confusing for newcomers and anybody reading would assume we only think the worst instead of that we actually appreciate the story

 

[CrysusPariah2]

We are almost in november, can't wait for the update!! Anybody knows if there is some news from the dev?

No info besides a post two weeks ago, that is was about 50% done

A realistic estimate would be another 2-3 weeks.
Staying optimistic for a release before thanksgiving

Usual updates take anywhere between one and two months, the only issue is that the Professor alternates releases of their games

 

[Pugthulhu]

I wasn't saying it to put you down, I enjoy discussing and the sharing of opinions, helps me expand my understanding.

I never took it that way.

Yes this is the impression, the clean up was at the end of junior year, just before Isaac.

This makes much more sense. This is what I thought, but I looked at the timeline and thought I had it wrong.
I went through the cliffs again and I can see why it's so hard to timeline it out. After the cliffs is pretty abreviated and would be hard to timeline.

SO going through this again with things I know.
It sounds like the cliffs happen in the second semester of his Junior year. Generally the last day to drop courses is a few weeks into a semester, so if the Spring started early to mid-January he would have had to drop courses by early February.
It doesn't say how long there ws between dropping course and the cliffs. The game gives the impression that it's soon, but it could have been much longer. I believe normally a person would have to leave the dorms if they drop courses, but that never happend to me or anyone I knew so I don't know.
The next thing we know, is that Isaac's 3 weeks ended on the night of the cliffs.

This leads me to another question though. Reading the cliffs again I picked up on Lacey telling the MC:
L "I'm a mess [MCFirst]."
L "You have no idea how bad it is."
L "But something happened today."
L "Something that helped wake me up from the delirium I've been in."
L "And apparently it needed to happen today,"
L "so that I could talk to you right now."

Do we know what happened that day that helped her be ready for the call?

Her biggest mistake was leaving and ghosting MC, he was the solution, she knew it and still chose to be stubborn (another of Lacey's strong traits).

Yes, a mistake, and probably her biggest, but nobody can know what would have happened if she had stayed. Hindsight is 20/20, but as stubborn as she is, if the MC had been around while she tried to figured out who she was from her abusive childhood. She may still have found her way to drugs. She may have still found her way to sex and cheated. And it may have driven them apart. What she did was a mistake, but it may have been that mistake that allowed her to be able to love the MC.

 

[DeviantFun]

This makes much more sense. This is what I thought, but I looked at the timeline and thought I had it wrong.
I went through the cliffs again and I can see why it's so hard to timeline it out. After the cliffs is pretty abreviated and would be hard to timeline.

Mav timeline, while complete, does have a part that goes against what we see in the dialogues.

Just to make it clear, Isaac is one year older than Mc and Lacey or at least was one year ahead in college.

SO going through this again with things I know.
It sounds like the cliffs happen in the second semester of his Junior year. Generally the last day to drop courses is a few weeks into a semester, so if the Spring started early to mid-January he would have had to drop courses by early February.
It doesn't say how long there ws between dropping course and the cliffs. The game gives the impression that it's soon, but it could have been much longer. I believe normally a person would have to leave the dorms if they drop courses, but that never happend to me or anyone I knew so I don't know.
The next thing we know, is that Isaac's 3 weeks ended on the night of the cliffs.

This leads me to another question though. Reading the cliffs again I picked up on Lacey telling the MC:
L "I'm a mess [MCFirst]."
L "You have no idea how bad it is."
L "But something happened today."
L "Something that helped wake me up from the delirium I've been in."
L "And apparently it needed to happen today,"
L "so that I could talk to you right now."

Do we know what happened that day that helped her be ready for the call?

She got fucked by Isaac and the pain made her realize that sexual pain "resets" her brain (last picture of the last messages).
Lacey explains it all later on and the act is called "red bra" since that is the clothes Lacey uses to ask MC to perform it.

And yes, you read it right, while MC was about to jump, Lacey was still dripping juices.

This is something MC should and could never forgive unless we live in bizarro world.

Yes, a mistake, and probably her biggest, but nobody can know what would have happened if she had stayed. Hindsight is 20/20, but as stubborn as she is, if the MC had been around while she tried to figured out who she was from her abusive childhood. She may still have found her way to drugs. She may have still found her way to sex and cheated. And it may have driven them apart. What she did was a mistake, but it may have been that mistake that allowed her to be able to love the MC.

If she stayed they would have taken baby steps, took her to therapy, discover red bra by their own (admitted by Lacey that it could have been pretty quick) and we would not have L&J.

MC "Knowing who we are, do you think it would have taken that long for us to figure out that painful sex resets your brain?"
L "No. We probably would have figured it out in a few weeks."

Red bra is a bit more complex than just pain, we know that her first time was very painful and yet nothing happened, MC does it effortlessly because Lacey trusts him a lot and he knows her more than she knows herself, with Isaac she needed an insane amount of drugs and a lot of pain to achieve it.

But why would she discover her way to sex and cheat? It makes no sense for Lacey to do so she had and has only one love in her life and sex terrified her.
Heck, physical touch terrified her.

Why would she need ketamine? MC was more than enough to keep the demons at bay and she would not have fallen into deep depression anyway.
She woulld have been taken care of by MC to extreme levels, this is what he did his whole life almost.

Lacey always loved MC, it is one of premises of the story and so is the fact that MC held her together (at great personal expense) and she needs him to survive.

This is what makes Lacey a tragic character, she fucked herself over, she had everything set to be able to start healing and yet she decided to throw everything away in a desperate (some might say stupid) attempt to be more for the man she loved, but he never asked her more than she could give.

 

[Pugthulhu]

Mav timeline, while complete, does have a part that goes against what we see in the dialogues.

Just to make it clear, Isaac is one year older than Mc and Lacey or at least was one year ahead in college.

I always thought it was strange that they were 19 when this started. Normally you'd be 17-18 at graduation unless they were both held back a year. I just accepted it for what it was and went on.

As amazing as the timeline is, I can see how hard it is to make sense of. There are things in the material that just doesn't work if you take them at face value.
The MC says they were apart for 4 years. 1460 days. But he missed a semester so wouldn't it be 4.5 years. I'm sure the author never intended for it to be critiques to that level.

She got fucked by Isaac and the pain made her realize that sexual pain "resets" her brain (last picture of the last messages).
Lacey explains it all later on and the act is called "red bra" since that is the clothes Lacey uses to ask MC to perform it.

And yes, you read it right, while MC was about to jump, Lacey was still dripping juices.

Ah, yes. Red bra night. Ok that makes sense. I remember that being talked about now. Thanks

This is something MC should and could never forgive unless we live in bizarro world.

If there is anything that either of them can never forgive, then they are already doomed.

Maybe it's just me. I can read the story and accept it for what it is. But my view are different and that's probably why I could never be in that situation. I think she has alot to atone for and I don't even think leaving is the biggest. The biggest is not staying in contact. The biggest is when she came back not sitting down and having a long talk and telling him everything. That would be my biggest hangups. The details of college would hurt and they would need to talk through them and have lots of therapy. Maybe I'm just weird.

If she stayed they would have taken baby steps, took her to therapy, discover red bra by their own (admitted by Lacey that it could have been pretty quick) and we would not have L&J.

MC "Knowing who we are, do you think it would have taken that long for us to figure out that painful sex resets your brain?"
L "No. We probably would have figured it out in a few weeks."

Red bra is a bit more complex than just pain, we know that her first time was very painful and yet nothing happened, MC does it effortlessly because Lacey trusts him a lot and he knows her more than she knows herself, with Isaac she needed an insane amount of drugs and a lot of pain to achieve it.

But why would she discover her way to sex and cheat? It makes no sense for Lacey to do so she had and has only one love in her life and sex terrified her.
Heck, physical touch terrified her.

Why would she need ketamine? MC was more than enough to keep the demons at bay and she would not have fallen into deep depression anyway.
She woulld have been taken care of by MC to extreme levels, this is what he did his whole life almost.

Lacey always loved MC, it is one of premises of the story and so is the fact that MC held her together (at great personal expense) and she needs him to survive.

This is what makes Lacey a tragic character, she fucked herself over, she had everything set to be able to start healing and yet she decided to throw everything away in a desperate (some might say stupid) attempt to be more for the man she loved, but he never asked her more than she could give.

I guess feeling that her staying is where my optimism fails me. I know that them saying it would have worked after the fact is alot different than it actually working. It's not where the story went and they will never truly know.

 

[Maviarab]

According to the material, the cliffs and Isaac were at the end of junior year
Mavi’s fixed timeline puts Isaac in senior year instead, which is a bit of a point of contention and am waiting on evidence in future releases to either confirm or disprove the theory

According to the material, the parties stopped even before Isaac, and no sex of any kind after.
Not that we necessarily believe that part

Once again (for the benfit of our new addicted memebr here):

1. Not once...ever...is it stated, that isaac was Junior year. Not once.
2. She states...she made the MC wait...another entire year....before seeing him after the cliff call.
3. MC did another semester...alone.
4. We know...from THREE different sources....Lacey was either with..or just finished with.....Isaac...when Anna called.

Therefore...there is your proof...twice. Isaac...was at the end of Senior year before graduation, right before he left for the draft.

I'll say it..one...last...time. Yes, often, the script makes it seem something is when it isn't. it is done numerous times. I'm sorry but it really frustrates me to high hell so many of you either cannot see this...or obstinately refuse to acknowledge what is plainly there, in the script...for all to see. Last Hurrah for Mavi...Isaac is never explicitly stated to happen in any college year at all...sure as hell never in junior year. I've asked before...prove it to me...show it in the script...and guess what?

I'm....still....waiting....

Lacey with Isaac/shortly after at time of cliff call. Three people corrobarate this.
She makes him wait 'an entire year' before she lets him see her. 1 year. Not 2 years....
Isaac...cannot possibly....under any kind of twisting....be in Junior year (huge writer fuck up aside).
Illogical for her to 'leave with him' if she still in junior year.

5. I never 'chased' anyone...Lacey's half-truth words....again. No, she didn't, She isn't lying...because Isaac went to Mia and Mia said hey bitch...facny fucking this NFL player to be?
6. When MC calls her out after the 'kitchen chat'....he says someone over 2 years ago.....Lacey replies with 'silence' (three dots ...)
Another reason he still so damn hung up over her.
7. A 'Last Hurrah' (a final act, performance, or effort ¬ disctionary definition) makes far more sense...far more sense...before graduation...after getting clean once...then leave college...clean up agaiun and reunite with MC.

All the proof is right there. If you forget the kitchen chat...forget the MC chat afterwards...forget Lacey keeping shtum....just points 2 and 4 alone (proving it was before graduation) should be enough. The script (material) is VERY clear about this.

Now how you like dem damn apples?

 

[anongamer1983]

1. Not once...ever...is it stated, that isaac was Junior year. Not once.

I will say that MC does state that it was Junior year that he went to the cliffs and we know that was when Lacey was with Isaac

M "When did you..."
M "You said you almost killed yourself?"
MC "Yeah, I can't explain it."
MC "In my junior year I suddenly went to a dark, dark place."
MC "I don't know why, but I felt like I had genuinely lost Lacey."
MC "That I would never see her again."

He restates this when Kelly talks about a horrible Junior year as well.

"In her junior year of all years."
"I felt a small connection with her."
"I did something I can't really explain."
"I was honest with her."
MC "I'm convinced junior years in college are cursed."
MC "That was bar none the worst year of my life."

However, we are told that MC isn't the most reliable narrator, so it's possible he doesn't remember correctly. I'm not convinced that Isaac happened senior year, but I do think it's plausible.

 

[Pugthulhu]

Once again (for the benfit of our new addicted memebr here):

1. Not once...ever...is it stated, that isaac was Junior year. Not once.
2. She states...she made the MC wait...another entire year....before seeing him after the cliff call.
3. MC did another semester...alone.
4. We know...from THREE different sources....Lacey was either with..or just finished with.....Isaac...when Anna called.

Therefore...there is your proof...twice. Isaac...was at the end of Senior year before graduation, right before he left for the draft.

I'll say it..one...last...time. Yes, often, the script makes it seem something is when it isn't. it is done numerous times. I'm sorry but it really frustrates me to high hell so many of you either cannot see this...or obstinately refuse to acknowledge what is plainly there, in the script...for all to see. Last Hurrah for Mavi...Isaac is never explicitly stated to happen in any college year at all...sure as hell never in junior year. I've asked before...prove it to me...show it in the script...and guess what?

I'm....still....waiting....

Lacey with Isaac/shortly after at time of cliff call. Three people corrobarate this.
She makes him wait 'an entire year' before she lets him see her. 1 year. Not 2 years....
Isaac...cannot possibly....under any kind of twisting....be in Junior year (huge writer fuck up aside)

5. I never 'chased' anyone...Lacey's half-truth words....again. No, she didn't, She isn't lying...because Isaac went to Mia and Mia said hey bitch...facny fucking this NFL player to be?
6. When MC calls her out after the 'kitchen chat'....he says someone over 2 years ago.....Lacey replies with 'silence' (three dots ...)
Another reason he still so damn hung up over her.
7. A 'Last Hurrah' (a final act, performance, or effort ¬ disctionary definition) makes far more sense...far more sense...before graduation...after getting clean once...then leave college...clean up agaiun and reunite with MC.

All the proof is right there. If you forget the kitchen chat...forget the MC chat afterwards...forget Lacey keeping shtum....just points 2 and 4 alone (proving it was before graduation) should be enough. The script (material) is VERY clear about this.

Now how you like dem damn apples?

Ok, no offense. I can tell this is something that has been discussed alot.

First the impression I get is that the cliffs happen on the last day of the 3 weeks. Isaac said and then she gets a call out of the blue and she left.

I also got the impression that he dropped out of school during his Junior year. He said My Junior year started but I was about to hit rock bottom. I think it would be strange to say that and then a year goes by before rock bottom happens. Or maybe he spent a year at rock bottom. It never mentions Senior year starting and so there is no way to know if he went into his senior year before dropping out or not. Just that he dropped out and that semester is when the cliffs happened.

I think the biggest unknown is the statement of waiting a year. The impression I got was she made him wait a year while she finished school. I can see where if that year was between the cliffs and her showing up at his doorstep would make a big difference.

I apologize for dredging up things, and I'll leave it be. Hopefully we will get more info in Act 3 that can make more sense of all of this.
And if I'll just accept that it's confusing and move on.

 

[Maviarab]

I will say that MC does state that it was Junior year that he went to the cliffs and we know that was when Lacey was with Isaac

M "When did you..."
M "You said you almost killed yourself?"
MC "Yeah, I can't explain it."
MC "In my junior year I suddenly went to a dark, dark place."
MC "I don't know why, but I felt like I had genuinely lost Lacey."
MC "That I would never see her again."

He restates this when Kelly talks about a horrible Junior year as well.

"In her junior year of all years."
"I felt a small connection with her."
"I did something I can't really explain."
"I was honest with her."
MC "I'm convinced junior years in college are cursed."
MC "That was bar none the worst year of my life."

However, we are told that MC isn't the most reliable narrator, so it's possible he doesn't remember correctly. I'm not convinced that Isaac happened senior year, but I do think it's plausible.

And not once there...does he state....that call....was junior year. Does it? The script is ambiguous and makes you think that....

Like Mia....she did this...she was fucked senseless....she did gangbangs ....then came Isaac. Makes you think, it's t reads as if it was right after.....but it is never stated.

Please don't quote the script which does not explicitly state what you say or does. It doesn't

 

[Pugthulhu]

And not once there...does he state....that call....was junior year. Does it? The script is ambiguous and makes you think that....

Like Mia....she did this...she was fucked senseless....she did gangbangs ....then came Isaac. Makes you think, it's t reads as if it was right after.....but it is never stated.

Please don't quote the script which does not explicitly state what you say or does. It doesn't

Mav,
Let me ask your take on this one.
In Act 2 after finding the K in Mia's purse, MC has a talk with Lacey about K trying to determine if he can tell her about Mia.

She opens up to him about her addiction and tells him:

L "I fell off the bandwagon, probably ten or eleven times in my senior year."
L "I never once slept with a stranger or sought out that kind of attention."
L "I wasn't even tempted to."
L "Maybe that will help you rest easier?"

The MC knows about Isaac and has met with him separate to talk at this point. Why do you think she said she didn't seek out that kind of attention her senior year if she was with Isaac? Do you think it's because she and I guess the MC doesn't think Isaac was a stranger when their 3 weeks started?

 

[Pugthulhu]

Started Augusta and just saw the part where he was the one who investigated Lacey for Jared. That was pretty cool.