VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[DeviantFun]

If there is anything that either of them can never forgive, then they are already doomed.

Looking at it pragmatically, they are, the ending can only be bittersweet in the best scenario.
Accepting is not synonym with forgiving, MC is scarred forever, he will never have a normal life.

But I also don't subscribe to the fact that you need to forgive someone to go ahead in life, it is a very Christian concept, but "turning the other cheek" had a very different meaning originally.

There are things that you have to atone for forever, there are unforgivable things that you will never be forgiven for, yet you can move on.

Maybe it's just me. I can read the story and accept it for what it is. But my view are different and that's probably why I could never be in that situation. I think she has alot to atone for and I don't even think leaving is the biggest. The biggest is not staying in contact. The biggest is when she came back not sitting down and having a long talk and telling him everything. That would be my biggest hangups. The details of college would hurt and they would need to talk through them and have lots of therapy. Maybe I'm just weird.

Well no one, no matter how damaged, will be in that situation.

But I agree with you, I always put leaving+ghosting as a combo, being honest too, but I go logically and by order, I am just weird like that.

If you want, Lacey lied to MC about going to college together and living together after HS.

I guess feeling that her staying is where my optimism fails me. I know that them saying it would have worked after the fact is alot different than it actually working. It's not where the story went and they will never truly know.

I am the least optimist person in the world.

I am going with what is written in the material, we know the dynamic, we know what they do for each other, we know how they were before, we know the plans they had.

Obviously things can happen, but when Lacey says "I should have never left you" it is the damn truth.

She needs him to be normal, with him not ever the other side can manifest, but anyway, I agree this is somewhat in the realm of speculation so lets leave it at that.

And not once there...does he state....that call....was junior year. Does it? The script is ambiguous and makes you think that....

Like Mia....she did this...she was fucked senseless....she did gangbangs ....then came Isaac. Makes you think, it's t reads as if it was right after.....but it is never stated.

Please don't quote the script which does not explicitly state what you say or does. It doesn't

You know very well that summing the pieces of the script the fact that MC was in junior, we had this convo before (either here or in pvt) and the

"True to her word, Anna stayed an amazing friend throughout my senior year." <- this is just after the suicide attempt

L "Did you keep the conversations between you and Mia? The one about my junior year?" <- this indicates that all the debauchery happened in junior year

But anyway, I am not really inclined to revisit it ONCE AGAIN .

 

[CrysusPariah2]

Mavi gets pretty obsessed with his version of the timeline.
And i get it. He put in a lot of effort.
It’s has a lot of merit and some intriguing ideas.
But he is also hyper-focused on real world timelines and reluctant to admit that the Dev had messed up the wording or timeline references, which they themselves have already admitted to.

E.g. Lacey mentioning that MC had to wait another year before seeing Lacey. I think it is reasonable to assume, that he was only talking about senior year, and forgot to account for MC needing to repeat a semester. (It is only briefly mentioned in the prologue, and was maybe just added in the editing process after a lot of the dialogue was already established)

Mavi also repeatedly states how things aren’t specifically mentioned to having occurred in junior year, but neither was it stated to have occurred in senior year, which is why i said we are waiting for confirmation in future releases

Pugthulhu you can also check out my visual timeline on the front page as well. It’s not as complex as Mavi’s, but shows what the timeline leads us to believe and implies, without having to make multiple inferences or needing to go on a deep dive Timeline Post

 

[funnythings3785]

Has anyone parsed the script with an AI? I wonder if it would be easier to find various inconsistencies and maybe align some possible theories.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

Has anyone parsed the script with an AI? I wonder if it would be easier to find various inconsistencies and maybe align some possible theories.

Not for timeline inconsistencies

DeviantFun used AI for a character analysis at some point and also in order to identify FV and the monster i think

 

[DeviantFun]

Has anyone parsed the script with an AI? I wonder if it would be easier to find various inconsistencies and maybe align some possible theories.

Not for timeline inconsistencies

DeviantFun used AI for a character analysis at some point and also in order to identify FV and the monster i think

Yeah somebody mentioned it and then I got curious.

I did try some character analysis but nothing particularly interesting came out, Mia is fucking evil, Lacey and Mia split the responsibility of what happened in college but Mia was the instigator and took advantage of Lacey's weakness and so on.

I might go back and try with all characters at some point but it is rather drivel.

I also tried to see whether the monster and FV coulld be identified but that didn't work too well, the monster has been identified as Veronica or Mia and FV as Barty if I remember correctly.

The inconsistencies are very diffcult to find for an AI tool, especially the inconsistencies in character behaviour.
There are not many set dates and sometimes everything gets jumbled by time skips in act 1, act 2 has no time skips, just a double day/missing day.

 

[Maviarab]

L "I never once slept with a stranger or sought out that kind of attention."
L "I wasn't even tempted to."

None of this...'during' senior year is a lie. None of it...UNTIL Isaac...

Why do you think she said she didn't seek out that kind of attention her senior year if she was with Isaac? Do you think it's because she and I guess the MC doesn't think Isaac was a stranger when their 3 weeks started?

See above. She is right..she never seeked anything. But she never got clean either...approx relapse every 6 weeks on average. Semantics maybe...but during senior year and end of...are two different things most people would differentiate between

(It is only briefly mentioned in the prologue, and was maybe just added in the editing process after a lot of the dialogue was already established)

Incorrect. Lacey herself states...in the 'made you wait' conversation...that the MC spent four and half years in college. Lacey is very clear about this, knows the time and still states...she made him wait a year before seeing her.

Now you guys are actually refusing to believe black and white in the script. There is no reason at all during this conversation for Lacey to be confused, lie, cover something up or misdirect. In fact, it's possibly the first conversation of hers that is actually 100% truthful from her.

And not once there...does he state....that call....was junior year. Does it? The script is ambiguous and makes you think that....

Like Mia....she did this...she was fucked senseless....she did gangbangs ....then came Isaac. Makes you think, it's t reads as if it was right after.....but it is never stated.

Please don't quote the script which does not explicitly state what you say or does. It doesn't

To extrapolate on this for annongamer....junior year is when he spiralled...he visited the cliffs multiple times.....multiple. So in the text you quoted, nothing is misspoken there...but again, not once, in what you quoted, does he say...that was when the call was. Again...the script just flows...but nothing is defined.

DF: I know the script as well as you do, you know this, pointless quoting it to me. What you quoted, like above, just flows...but it is never defined. Again, just like Mia, she did this, that and the other....then there was Issac. Notice, look at the script again for yourself...that Isaac, is said almost as a seperate entry/entity. I've explained this, with reason, sense and logic, too many times to remember now also.

Bottom line, for the very last time....three people corroborate Lacey was with Issac at the time at the call. Even Isaac, in the kitchen chat, which is not from the MC's persepctive so we have to accept that is an accurate conversation. Even he states this. Fact. He states it in the Gym. Fact. Lacey tells the mc...from the call, she made him...wait another...entire year...before seeing her. She also states...how long he was in college for.

This is not a mistake. I'm pretty sure both the succubus and the prof know the difference between 1 year....and 2 whole years (would actually be a little more in reality)....(and that's not even taking into account all the little subvtle clues, hints and things that happened into account which I listed in my previous). When so many things are specifically stated...so many...firmly grounded...why are 'some' things very intentionally left vague?

You know for a fact it's a duck....it looks like a duck, sounds like one, smells like one, acts like one....I'm not sure why it's still up for debate whether it's a duck or not lol. Especially when two people now today...have already admitted, it is vague and doesn't state either way. But none of you can give concrete 'facts' and 'proof' for what you believe....like I have...

And I constantly get accused of 'everything being a lie/nothing is real''. Seriously...are people actually reading their own posts after writing them out?

 

[CrysusPariah2]

Now you guys are actually refusing to believe black and white in the script. There is no reason at all during this conversation for Lacey to be confused, lie, cover something up or misdirect. In fact, it's possibly the first conversation of hers that is actually 100% truthful from her.


To extrapolate on this for annongamer....junior year is when he spiralled...he visited the cliffs multiple times.....multiple. So in the text you quoted, nothing is misspoken there...but again, not once, in what you quoted, does he say...that was when the call was. Again...the script just flows...but nothing is defined.

What i was saying, was the detail, that MC needed to repeat a semester was added as an afterthought to the prologue, and hence the already finished dialogue wasn’t altered to be 1.5 years instead of 1 year

Not that Lacey was confused

 

[Maviarab]

that MC needed to repeat a semester was added as an afterthought to the prologue

I find that unlikely (not being intentionally obstinate). It's very, very early in Act1, during his narration. It's the very start of the story...I find it difficult to believe the prof added that as an afterthought before releasing it...and that has been in since the very first release.

 

[DeviantFun]

Bottom line, for the very last time....three people corroborate Lacey was with Issac at the time at the call. Even Isaac, in the kitchen chat, which is not from the MC's persepctive so we have to accept that is an accurate conversation. Even he states this. Fact. He states it in the Gym. Fact. Lacey tells the mc...from the call, she made him...wait another...entire year...before seeing her. She also states...how long he was in college for.

Are you sure they corroborate that she was physically in the room with Isaac, we only know that earlier during the day she was and she got fucked hard.

As far I know Isaac NEVER states that they were in the same room, neither at the kitchen or at the gym, he knows about the call however.

What we know is that Anna called her dorm and a drunk girl answered, she told her to tell Lacey to answer her phone since it was an emergency.

One speculation could be that Mia who answered (high probability) and she went to Lacey that was still with Isaac, Mia tells her to answer and we know Anna was blasting Lacey's phone, so she answers and realizes she didn't look at the phone for a couple of weeks.

So to me it is very likely she was at Isaacs but I have no direct reference, just putting the dots together, I will look into the script later to see if I am wrong.

And yes the fact that Lacey made MC wait for a year is in the script, and that does not match with the 1 year + 6 months.

EDIT:

DF: I know the script as well as you do, you know this, pointless quoting it to me. What you quoted, like above, just flows...but it is never defined. Again, just like Mia, she did this, that and the other....then there was Issac. Notice, look at the script again for yourself...that Isaac, is said almost as a seperate entry/entity. I've explained this, with reason, sense and logic, too many times to remember now also.

First of all, I doubt anyone knows the script as well as I do (weird flex huh? I am jk ofc)

Just checked, from the script (I won't quote since you are against it) it is painfully clear that Isaac was at the end of Lacey's junior year and lost contact after the three weeks, Isaac was looking for a girl to party with for his graduation which means that he is either senior, skipped a year or whatever.

We already had a similar conversation and the quotes dismantled this theory, and you accepted it, I don't know why we are back to square one, unless we are speculating and saying "this is my theory and I am having fun with it" then I am all for it.

Come on my man, you are hang up on something that is really out there and will never come true in the story unless the prof reads you message and likes the idea providing a retcon and making half the cast bad liars, Isaac included .

Lacey debauchery starts at junior and ends at junior, which cathartically fits for when the MC spirals, a fine artistic choice.

I can still agree with you about the additional 6 months, those are completely unaccounted for and seem that they do not exist everytime everyone talks, from MC to Lacey, I won't quote again but the year is heavily underlined even in act 2, not "more than a year" it says specifically a year.

EDIT2:

And since we are in the topic of old topics, how in the heavens Anna managed to find Lacey in a few weeks while MC was completely clueless?

I gave myself the silly explanation that he respected her choice, but it does not make sense because he was really in the dumps, if he knew he would have tried to see her.

Anyway, another heavy sign of MC incompetence.

 

[funnythings3785]

So... what we really need after this game is finished... is a detailed commentary by the professor on his thoughts, intent, etc...

Now that would be I think as interesting as the story itself.

 

[Pugthulhu]

I apologize for brining up something that is clearly a sore subject.
I can see that this has been looked at in detail and both sides have to make logical assumptions at times to get to what they believe. Until/if there is clarification made in the script or prof comes out and says, we can not know the intention.
In reality it doesn't matter if there was a year or a year and a half in that period for my enjoyment of the story. I will believe my interpretation until I learn different and I will listen to everyone else's interpretation to help mold mine.
The MC's main rule for KW was Have Fun and the same should hold true here in these forums. I enjoy the story and accept it for what it is and I'm just here to chew bubblegum and have fun and I'm all out of bubblegum.

 

[Pugthulhu]

Ok, how about another quick speculation.

I was thinking about FV/Barty and who if anyone might be working with him. And I thought.

Barty created a 3-some video with himself to try to drive apart MC and Lacey. And it made things bad for a little bit, but it was easily seen through by Christine for two reasons. First it was hard to believe. Most everyone didn't believe it until they saw it. Christine didn't either and when she saw it because of her experience with her sister she knew something was off. In the end it didn't work.

Now think about this. If someone who Lacey and the MC is close to was involved. They could have made a much more believable video. If that video had been Barty crying about losing his wife, and fake Lacey would have ask him "Can I give you a kiss?". Then he meekly said "would that be ok?" and fakeLacey responded "sure, it's no big deal." Then she offers a BJ and he says something like Oh crap I'm sorry my phone is recording. Is it ok if I record this and keep it for later? She says yes and gives him the BJ. Afterwards he leaves and she says "If you get sad and need to "talk" come back over, but make sure my husband is not home."
That would have hit him with the kiss, and also would have fed into the doubt that not only he as the character has, but the doubt all of us had playing the game. If that would have been the video, I don't think I would have even thought it wasn't real.
But instead Barty made something over the top and it failed.

 

[Pugthulhu]

Now, to ask another question. I hope talking about something that's a different media and is not game related is ok. If not let me know and I'll delete it, but I do think it's related.

Is anyone here a fan of K-Pop Demon Hunters? I watched it a while back, but ended up watching it again after Playing L&J and it gave me goosebumps. If you are not familiar with it, go to YouTube and listen to the song "What it Sounds Like" or at least go and read the lyrics because it could be a song about Lacey.

 

[DeviantFun]

I was thinking about FV/Barty and who if anyone might be working with him. And I thought.

As far as we know, the group is composed of: FV, Barty (they might be the same), Will, Reggie, Blonde intern at Brimley.

Barty created a 3-some video with himself to try to drive apart MC and Lacey. And it made things bad for a little bit, but it was easily seen through by Christine for two reasons. First it was hard to believe. Most everyone didn't believe it until they saw it. Christine didn't either and when she saw it because of her experience with her sister she knew something was off. In the end it didn't work.

Eh they did believe it, they did not know what was on it or even why MC was angry, but if you see the reaction from Anna...she ate it up, Mia was weirded out from how Lacey interacted, but it is weird since she did not recognize any signs with Bastion, well whatever.
Heck, even Lacey believed it, before seeing it she was dubious that she might have said something stupid to Barty.

Christine saw what happened with Bastion so believing that Lacey could have done something stupid again might be on the table.
She acts like this because the story needs her to act like this, she is surgical and went to check immediately and noticed some inconsistencies (unless she knew something already, who knows).

It was not her experience with her sister that tipped her off, that was with Bastion, in the video situation we discover she is somewhat an expert about video software, which she downloads to look at the video frame by frame.

Now think about this. If someone who Lacey and the MC is close to was involved. They could have made a much more believable video. If that video had been Barty crying about losing his wife, and fake Lacey would have ask him "Can I give you a kiss?". Then he meekly said "would that be ok?" and fakeLacey responded "sure, it's no big deal." Then she offers a BJ and he says something like Oh crap I'm sorry my phone is recording. Is it ok if I record this and keep it for later? She says yes and gives him the BJ. Afterwards he leaves and she says "If you get sad and need to "talk" come back over, but make sure my husband is not home."
That would have hit him with the kiss, and also would have fed into the doubt that not only he as the character has, but the doubt all of us had playing the game. If that would have been the video, I don't think I would have even thought it wasn't real.
But instead Barty made something over the top and it failed.

So, someone close to MC is involved for sure, the Monster warns us about it (a bit of Jared 2.0 but lets see how it played out):

TM_nvl "You will be betrayed and this small life you seem to cherish will be gone"
TM_nvl "And almost everyone you love and trust will be in on it"

But it would have been a good idea, personally I would have been waaaaay more concerned, since it fits exactly with the material, but you need to understand that it might not have full the shock value the author seeks as the theme was that Lacey will never be exclusively for MC.
Honestly? I think I am fine with it, while to anyone that paid a grain of attention the video was an obvious fake or a setup, hitting with Lacey having something special "only" (she probably got fucked that way a million times) for Barty was a nice touch.

Actually the more I think about it, I guess I could have been fooled too, it doesn't fit Lacey's character at all, but the strong connection with the material makes it very believable, you had a damn great idea.
Sprinkle it with some colour dialogue (Lacey being very affectionate and such) and you might have a winner.

Now, to ask another question. I hope talking about something that's a different media and is not game related is ok. If not let me know and I'll delete it, but I do think it's related.

Is anyone here a fan of K-Pop Demon Hunters? I watched it a while back, but ended up watching it again after Playing L&J and it gave me goosebumps. If you are not familiar with it, go to YouTube and listen to the song "What it Sounds Like" or at least go and read the lyrics because it could be a song about Lacey.

Funnily enough, Lacey has her own music video:

You must be registered to see the links

Which should silence a lot of her criticism and speculations about her character, this is how the author wrote her, this is what and how she thinks.

 

[Pugthulhu]

So, someone close to MC is involved for sure, the Monster warns us about it (a bit of Jared 2.0 but lets see how it played out):

TM_nvl "You will be betrayed and this small life you seem to cherish will be gone"
TM_nvl "And almost everyone you love and trust will be in on it"

I thought this was eluding to the crew and the betrayal that Mia was planning with the purse of K?
Wasn't this the text right before the meeting with Mia where he found the K in her purse?

Funnily enough, Lacey has her own music video:

You must be registered to see the links

Which should silence a lot of her criticism and speculations about her character, this is how the author wrote her, this is what and how she thinks.

That was cool.

If you haven't hear What it Sounds Like, just read the lyrics and tell me you don't think about Lacey.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

As far as we know, the group is composed of: FV, Barty (they might be the same), Will, Reggie, Blonde intern at Brimley.

With the caveat that they also have someone from the girls providing them with intel, or they have a lot of recording devices

EDIT: or maybe someone else from Lacey’s college days, that managed to insert themselves back in her orbit and keep tabs on Lacey, like Lorenzo

 

[CrysusPariah2]

I thought this was eluding to the crew and the betrayal that Mia was planning with the purse of K?
Wasn't this the text right before the meeting with Mia where he found the K in her purse?

Could be, and while it fits, I also interpreted it to apply to the grander scheme, the conclusion of FV machinations, not just the opening Act

Do we actually think FV was somehow involved in convincing Mia to go through with the betrayal and purse full of K?
If so how?

 

[anongamer1983]

And not once there...does he state....that call....was junior year. Does it? The script is ambiguous and makes you think that....

Like Mia....she did this...she was fucked senseless....she did gangbangs ....then came Isaac. Makes you think, it's t reads as if it was right after.....but it is never stated.

Please don't quote the script which does not explicitly state what you say or does. It doesn't

Ok, how about this one from Anna saying it happened Junior year

M "What is this place?"
A "It's where he almost killed himself during our junior year."
M "That's pretty ominous."

 

[Pugthulhu]

Could be, and while it fits, I also interpreted it to apply to the grander scheme, the conclusion of FV machinations, not just the opening Act

Do we actually think FV was somehow involved in convincing Mia to go through with the betrayal and purse full of K?
If so how?

I don't have any notes with me and I'm just going by memory. But while FV does talk about a bigger picture, most of his texts are about something that is about to happen. He may have been talking about that in a bigger picture, but my interpretation was that he was talking about what was coming that night.

I don't think Mia is working with FV, but he may be manipulating her through someone. I'm not sure could be manipulating her, but it's possible.
Personally, I think Mia is separate from FV and is working selfishly for her own ends.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

I don't have any notes with me and I'm just going by memory. But while FV does talk about a bigger picture, most of his texts are about something that is about to happen. He may have been talking about that in a bigger picture, but my interpretation was that he was talking about what was coming that night.

I don't think Mia is working with FV, but he may be manipulating her through someone. I'm not sure could be manipulating her, but it's possible.
Personally, I think Mia is separate from FV and is working selfishly for her own ends.

Minor slip up there, you seem to be conflating FV and the Monster a bit in your first half.

Just to quickly explain my thinking.
First, no, I don’t think Mia is actively assisting FV
By all appearances the Monster who warns MC about multiple things seems to specifically be tracking the movements of FV, but not the individual members of MC’s social circle, since we know the Monster doesn’t even bother to learn their names

So i would infer, that the Monster only knew about Mia’s plan, because FV had a hand in it, or at the very least was aware of it themselves