VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[DeviantFun]

I don't have any notes with me and I'm just going by memory. But while FV does talk about a bigger picture, most of his texts are about something that is about to happen. He may have been talking about that in a bigger picture, but my interpretation was that he was talking about what was coming that night.

I don't think Mia is working with FV, but he may be manipulating her through someone. I'm not sure could be manipulating her, but it's possible.
Personally, I think Mia is separate from FV and is working selfishly for her own ends.

Minor slip up there, you seem to be conflating FV and the Monster a bit in your first half.

Just to quickly explain my thinking.
First, no, I don’t think Mia is actively assisting FV
By all appearances the Monster who warns MC about multiple things seems to specifically be tracking the movements of FV, but not the individual members of MC’s social circle, since we know the Monster doesn’t even bother to learn their names

So i would infer, that the Monster only knew about Mia’s plan, because FV had a hand in it, or at the very least was aware of it themselves

Mia is not working directly with FV, if she is she is being tricked into it.

Even if she is a very bad person, she is in it for her own goals of "corrupting" and bringing out the "real version" (read: whatever unhinged idea she has of that person) or, in the latest case, protecting MC by damaging his mental health and ruining her "best friend" marriage/life.

Now the question is always open, how the fuck does everyone find these amount of drugs? We know that Mia is not exactly rich (poor family + rent + not exactly a high end job), if you remember she complains about it in the KW.
So maybe, and just maybe, a reasonable speculation would be that FV would have given her the drugs at a discount or for free.

But this is never mentioned in any FV dialogue, in fact he/she seems to be completely in the dark about it.

My interpretation of the monster message was more in the general sense, but the message is very vague and leaves a lot to imagination.

The monster is actively trying to discover more about Barty's new employees, yes, and is definitely tracking their actions since he/she knows about the video.

Ranking the monster theories I have:

• Winnie theory as most fun
• MC split personality as most intriguing

I was also thinking about something completely out there like the monster being the blonde intern or something, but it is just random.

 

[Pugthulhu]

Mia is not working directly with FV, if she is she is being tricked into it.

Even if she is a very bad person, she is in it for her own goals of "corrupting" and bringing out the "real version" (read: whatever unhinged idea she has of that person) or, in the latest case, protecting MC by damaging his mental health and ruining her "best friend" marriage/life.

Now the question is always open, how the fuck does everyone find these amount of drugs? We know that Mia is not exactly rich (poor family + rent + not exactly a high end job), if you remember she complains about it in the KW.
So maybe, and just maybe, a reasonable speculation would be that FV would have given her the drugs at a discount or for free.

But this is never mentioned in any FV dialogue, in fact he/she seems to be completely in the dark about it.

My interpretation of the monster message was more in the general sense, but the message is very vague and leaves a lot to imagination.

The monster is actively trying to discover more about Barty's new employees, yes, and is definitely tracking their actions since he/she knows about the video.

Ranking the monster theories I have:

• Winnie theory as most fun
• MC split personality as most intriguing

I was also thinking about something completely out there like the monster being the blonde intern or something, but it is just random.

Agreed, it sounds like the monster learns information at a normal pace since he doesn't know the employees FV has.

I think it's time for the MC to use that raise he got and hire a PI to investigate Barty. It worked for Jared.

 

[DeviantFun]

Agreed, it sounds like the monster learns information at a normal pace since he doesn't know the employees FV has.

I think it's time for the MC to use that raise he got and hire a PI to investigate Barty. It worked for Jared.

He already wasted it all in the Vegas trip .

And Lacey used his savings to buy slut dresses for months so...

 

[Driwell]

what stroke me the most up until now is that the story is actually believable in a sense. i think it has to do with how well the creator writes broken characters (both mc and lacey aren't clearly quite right in the head). went through the game constantly saying to myself "what the actual fuck?" with all the nonsense lacey manages to come up with. good stuff

 

[CrysusPariah2]

what stroke me the most up until now is that the story is actually believable in a sense. i think it has to do with how well the creator writes broken characters (both mc and lacey aren't clearly quite right in the head). went through the game constantly saying to myself "what the actual fuck?" with all the nonsense lacey manages to come up with. good stuff

Yes, the Professor has a fantastic talent for writing flawed characters, engaging stories and evoking a plethora of emotions in players, not just in Love & Jealousy, but also their other games
It’s equally impressive how much they produce in such a short time, while usually working on two VN simultaneously.

Unfortunately, this also comes with the drawback, that aspects of the story feel rushed and characters sometimes inconsistent for the sake of narrative, when they would only need a little polishing and editing.

DeviantFun said something that stuck with me: with L&J the Prof is “inches away from gold” and it is only these minor flaws that stop it from truly shining

Narratively, I feel the Prof stumbled on something truly unique with L&J, instead of just being another repeat of a harem simulator, sandbox game or NTR corruption.

 

[Saphfire]

He was always good with writing, the main reason i have been a patron since 02/23. But L&J is, by far, his masterpiece as of now.
I hate ntr with all my heart and had my doubts if this vn was for me. But it hits so hard i can´t stop reading and replaying it far to many times since release. And it hurts, every single time! I also like Augusta, his new game, but i really can´t wait for chapter, or act 3.
Regards Bastion

 

[DeviantFun]

Yes, the Professor has a fantastic talent for writing flawed characters, engaging stories and evoking a plethora of emotions in players, not just in Love & Jealousy, but also their other games
It’s equally impressive how much they produce in such a short time, while usually working on two VN simultaneously.

True, he really does have talent for writing flawed characters, but to be honest, it is not even that they are flawed or whatever, every character in almost every story is flawed in their own way, his talent in my opinion is how deep he is able to go within the character.

If we take L&J as an example, Lacey is the most successful one because we see her depth, the others cannot compare due to screen time or story reasons.
When you read Lacey you read a tragedy.

As you said the guy is a volcano, his writing speed is astonishing to me.

Unfortunately, this also comes with the drawback, that aspects of the story feel rushed and characters sometimes inconsistent for the sake of narrative, when they would only need a little polishing and editing.

DeviantFun said something that stuck with me: with L&J the Prof is “inches away from gold” and it is only these minor flaws that stop it from truly shining.

Eeeeexactly, with just a bit of care here and there this story would be the golden standard of "serious" AVNs, and I don't say it lightly.
It is still great (if I said otherwise I would be a hypocrite), but with just a few changes it could be much more, you said the two most glaring issues, I would add that the third is that events and actions do not have consequences, not even mild ones, probably for the sake of the story.

Narratively, I feel the Prof stumbled on something truly unique with L&J, instead of just being another repeat of a harem simulator, sandbox game or NTR corruption.

So much this, the story, as I like to say, is "fresh", breaks off from the usual slop and gives us a unique experience with real depth.

I think that if we remove all the sex scenes from L&J I would probably read it anyway, it is that good (bar the aforementioned issues).

He was always good with writing, the main reason i have been a patron since 02/23. But L&J is, by far, his masterpiece as of now.
I hate ntr with all my heart and had my doubts if this vn was for me. But it hits so hard i can´t stop reading and replaying it far to many times since release. And it hurts, every single time! I also like Augusta, his new game, but i really can´t wait for chapter, or act 3.
Regards Bastion

I cannot stand NTR, cuck stories and all that jazz, I stumbled on L&J by pure chance, I got lucky.

Augusta doesn't have the same pull for me, but it is quite ok, there are two or three scenes that are amazing.
With the limits on the graphic aspect, managing to create a feeling of uneasiness like that has to be commended.

Alas, the main issue of both L&J and Augusta for me is MC being a bit of a doofus .

 

[Pugthulhu]

I cannot stand NTR, cuck stories and all that jazz, I stumbled on L&J by pure chance, I got lucky.

I'm sure alot of the people who play L&J has a similar story. I am very glad that I gave it a go.

Augusta doesn't have the same pull for me, but it is quite ok, there are two or three scenes that are amazing.
With the limits on the graphic aspect, managing to create a feeling of uneasiness like that has to be commended.

Alas, the main issue of both L&J and Augusta for me is MC being a bit of a doofus .

I'm playing Augusta now and I'm enjoying, but as DF said The Professor has a skill at writing MCs that are that are a doofus. I was trying to think of another word to describe them, but I couldn't think of anything better than doofus.

 

[funnythings3785]

I'm sure alot of the people who play L&J has a similar story. I am very glad that I gave it a go.


I'm playing Augusta now and I'm enjoying, but as DF said The Professor has a skill at writing MCs that are that are a doofus. I was trying to think of another word to describe them, but I couldn't think of anything better than doofus.

Nowhere near as bad as most NTR games though. At least this MC has a logical reason for being a bit silly as you can explain it off as being the abuse and PTSD for a lot of it (not all). Contrast that with some Hangover Cat games which make the MC completely unrealistic to the point of absurdity (ie kink prop).

 

[DeviantFun]

I'm playing Augusta now and I'm enjoying, but as DF said The Professor has a skill at writing MCs that are that are a doofus. I was trying to think of another word to describe them, but I couldn't think of anything better than doofus.

And lets be clear, I am not advocating for a Mary Sue characters, capable of doing everything and being extremely competent, I'd just like for these MCs to be less bubbering fools.

Less childish would be a start, for example Augusta MC flirting with women is...lets say rather unrealistic (hey have you ever been fucked on these library tables?), L&J MC metronomes between non existant (MC says during the KW that he was flirting with the women there...when? where?) to predatory (Jeanette, Beth).

If I recall correctly there is one instance of flirting at the club that was a bit interesting, sadly it was with Mia.

Overall my problem with both of them but way more with the L&J MC is that they act like clueless teenagers, many of the cast do, but the MCs act really like kids.
A good example is the constant self deprecation by MC, I bet that you or anyone met or had a friend that kept on making general disparaging comments about themselves, and to be clear not by recognizing a flaw in their character, just general empty stuff like "I am an ass" or "I am immature", and I also bet you stopped hanging out with them quite quickly.

Nowhere near as bad as most NTR games though. At least this MC has a logical reason for being a bit silly as you can explain it off as being the abuse and PTSD for a lot of it (not all). Contrast that with some Hangover Cat games which make the MC completely unrealistic to the point of absurdity (ie kink prop).

L&J is not on that level and is not a NTR game per se, the characters have structure beyond "hopeless cuck" and "omg a cock! let me jump on it", thankfully.

 

[Pugthulhu]

And lets be clear, I am not advocating for a Mary Sue characters, capable of doing everything and being extremely competent, I'd just like for these MCs to be less bubbering fools.

Less childish would be a start, for example Augusta MC flirting with women is...lets say rather unrealistic (hey have you ever been fucked on these library tables?), L&J MC metronomes between non existant (MC says during the KW that he was flirting with the women there...when? where?) to predatory (Jeanette, Beth).

I understand exactly what you are saying. I want them just to act normal, but with issues.
The Augusta's MC's flirting hovers on the edge of being criminal and is just creepy.

A good example is the constant self deprecation by MC, I bet that you or anyone met or had a friend that kept on making general disparaging comments about themselves, and to be clear not by recognizing a flaw in their character, just general empty stuff like "I am an ass" or "I am immature", and I also bet you stopped hanging out with them quite quickly.

The only thing I would disagree with here is the self deprecation. That is very believable for a person who has gone through was the L&J MC has gone through. What is not believable is when he says something like that with others (who supposedly love him) around that they don't say something about it not being the case.

L&J is not on that level and is not a NTR game per se, the characters have structure beyond "hopeless cuck" and "omg a cock! let me jump on it", thankfully.

Exactly, it's NTR by definition, but not NTR by normal practice. It would be nice to see more games that treat NTR like L&S does. I joined Prof's Patreon and read his introduction when he first released it and he said it right. Fans of NTR will not like this because it doesn't coincide with their definition of NTR and it will not give them what they look for in an NTR game. (I paraphrased his words, but that was what I got out of it)

 

[DeviantFun]

I understand exactly what you are saying. I want them just to act normal, but with issues.
The Augusta's MC's flirting hovers on the edge of being criminal and is just creepy.

Because going to your former boss just after becoming an executive and telling her you're gonna fuck face her under the desk is like....normal, right?

The only thing I would disagree with here is the self deprecation. That is very believable for a person who has gone through was the L&J MC has gone through. What is not believable is when he says something like that with others (who supposedly love him) around that they don't say something about it not being the case.

You misunderstand me, I can definitely see how someone like MC could be self deprecating, it is the childish nature of it that I contest.
Telling himself or people randomly "I am an asshole" (and as you said, those same people agreeing to it during the KW) does not really constitute much.

I would see more of a: I don't deserve this (in a clear way, more than the faux humble pedestal talk) or have it more ingrained in the humor (which is often how it is represented in adults).
To be fair, some parts are well represented, like MC having a hard time taking compliments.

A good example was the first talk at lunch with Anna after Lacey starts to dress like a slut at work, him saying I am average is pretty realistic and fitting in how MC perceives himself (no matter how many women and how many work successes he gets).

Exactly, it's NTR by definition, but not NTR by normal practice. It would be nice to see more games that treat NTR like L&S does. I joined Prof's Patreon and read his introduction when he first released it and he said it right. Fans of NTR will not like this because it doesn't coincide with their definition of NTR and it will not give them what they look for in an NTR game. (I paraphrased his words, but that was what I got out of it)

I would not like NTR at all, but if it crafted into a good and engaging story I'll take it .
And yes his message was something like "a story for no one".

 

[funnythings3785]

Exactly, it's NTR by definition, but not NTR by normal practice. It would be nice to see more games that treat NTR like L&S does. I joined Prof's Patreon and read his introduction when he first released it and he said it right. Fans of NTR will not like this because it doesn't coincide with their definition of NTR and it will not give them what they look for in an NTR game. (I paraphrased his words, but that was what I got out of it)

My issue is with the term "Netorare" and how most western games push it. Most NTR games are defined as Netorare, but are written more like Netori/corruption kink stories. Netorare as I see it is more of a soap opera love story gone bad. It is by its definition, the loss, the steal of the love. The point is the MC, his overall progression from love to loss and how he deals with it and the story can be told without any "sex scenes", though key implemented scenes of such upon discovery can provide a more emotional connection in the story.

I like L&J in this sense because the story is all about the MC "dealing" with it, his understanding, his anger, frustration and legitimate disgust and rage concerning it. This fits with a story of love to loss. A good Netorare story is this coverage from start to finish, while most "so called" Netorare are simply people gooning over the cheating animations and with many I would suspect a hidden "cuck" fetish because for some reason they seem to only want the Netorare stories that center on the MC (not the FC/Antagonist, ie Netori).

L&J as I see it is Netorare, but more focused on the discovery/resolution phase of the story. It spends a lot more attention to the MC, how he deals with it, etc... The frustration (like many NTR games) is how he at times is stupid (but nowhere near as idiotic and he is definitely more "aware" and "thinking centric" to his dealing with it.

While the professor never would (at least I don't think so), I would love to see his version of a "true" netorare story from start to finish that deal with ALL levels of the progression (from love story to resolution) where the MC is thinking, aware, clever, and honest (ie gets angry and acts accordingly) and it plays out as a true love story turned bad with investigation, clever plot twists, remorse and consequence.

To be honest, I know a lot of the Netorare fans actually want this, but are inundated by fap kink games for people to get off on silly characters and sex scenes. They don't want an actual intelligent story, they simply want a sexual thrill.

I would not like NTR at all, but if it crafted into a good and engaging story I'll take it .
And yes his message was something like "a story for no one".

Most "honest" Netorare fans, this is exactly what they seek, not the kink fap sexual scenes... the story, the character progression and reactions, etc... I think most of the true Netorare fans read Literotica as those stories tend to focus on that (obviously because they are text). You can see a lot of the complaints about numerous NTR games are from those folks who see the NTR games for what they are, cheap porn.

 

[Saphfire]

It´s not netorare, and not netorase either. For me it´s simply cheating with maybe one exception on how the players went through the jealousy date. I am mature enough to not declare her kissing Morty as ntr, because i stopped there on all my playthroughs.
Netorase means the cuck enjoys what he sees which mc clearly doesn´t.

 

[funnythings3785]

It´s not netorare, and not netorase either. For me it´s simply cheating with maybe one exeption on how the players went through the jealousy date. I am mature enough to not declare her kissing Morty as ntr, because i stopped there on all my playthroughs.
Netorase means the cuck enjoys what he sees which mc clearly doesn´t.

Netorare simply means being stolen, taken away. L&J deals with the fear by the MC of such and each aspect of Laceys actions is an affirmation of that fear.

The Cuck scene is Netorare in that the MC does not approve, didn't want it, was manipulated into it.

The JD was also Netorare in the same aspect of being manipulated to it, but it was Netorase in him "allowing" it. He allowed his wife to be shared in such a manner. He didn't actually approve (if you read closely, he did it out of anger not approval).

Netorare NEVER approves of the wife being shared, corrupted, etc... it is a story of the loved one being stolen against the MCs will.

L&J deals with essentially Lacey corrupting herself with Mia (being stolen) from the MC during college and how he deals with it. The various "cheats" are her trying to convince him that it doesn't mean anything as well as her attempts to make herself be on the MCs level (Lacey logic).

It is an Netorare aftermath and recovery story. Think of it like an Netorare story where the FC cheats due to corruption, the MC takes her back and is going through the recovery of her corruption to find resolution but constantly runs into issues due to the corruption. A good Netorare story would have this as an alternate path (healing/recovery as opposed to maybe Revenge)

This in my opinion is a "true" netorare part of a story, but Netorare has been heavily corrupted to mean "sex kink for cucks". In a solid Netorare story, the MC is not a cuck, not a willing participant to cheat, and has no desire to share or be a part of such deviancy. They see it as betrayal and disgusting.

This is why this story resonates with "some" netorare lovers, but is despised by other "so claimed" Netorare lovers. Like I said, some people seek Netori in Netorare and unfortunately, a lot of Netorare is written to serve that expectation.

 

[Saphfire]

I disagree. Lacy is never been in danger of being stolen, therefore not netorare for me. If it is or you, i´m fine with it. In the end it doesn´t even matter.

 

[Saphfire]

Lets talk about a completely neglected part of L&J, the music.

My top3 songs:

The anger burns me
The anger burns me III (has some Iron Maiden vibe)
The anger burns me IV

What do you think?

 

[funnythings3785]

I disagree. Lacy is never been in danger of being stolen, therefore not netorare for me. If it is or you, i´m fine with it. In the end it doesn´t even matter.

I never said she was. The MC however is in constant fear she will leave him for someone else, that is what I meant.

I am discussing the definition and concept of it. The story is about a love being stolen, the MC fears it, feels betrayed by the actions of someone who "cheated" on them both in college, while married and all of the "train wrecks" center around that fear as well.

As I said, this is netorare story in the after effect stage.

 

[DeviantFun]

Lets talk about a completely neglected part of L&J, the music.

My top3 songs:

The anger burns me
The anger burns me III (has some Iron Maiden vibe)
The anger burns me IV

What do you think?

I think the music is more than adequate, I don't know if it self produced (I think it is) but it fits, even the more "active" pieces have a lot of melancholy behind them.

 

[Pugthulhu]

I disagree. Lacy is never been in danger of being stolen, therefore not netorare for me. If it is or you, i´m fine with it. In the end it doesn´t even matter.

I both agree and disagree with this. While after she comes back and they get married I don't think the MC is ever at risk of losing Lacey.

I would say that the game started with him losing her. He lost every part of her whether he knew it at the time or not. The final time he "lost" was when she made the decision she was going to leave with Isaac. Then the cliffs happened and it changed.

I see that the game really starts as a NTR story, but then becomes a story of how a couple coming back from NTR.