VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 3] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[Pugthulhu]

The problem about the what constitute as cheating would depend on a mixture of intent and actions, first she wasn't sober when she cheated on the MC with Damian, however she clearly went to that bar with the intent of picking a guy up to cheat on him with to prove it 'didn't matter'. That is absolutely cheating, she took that decision very much while sober, days in advance. Everything with Jared could be construed as cheating, she didn't have sex with him but she let him get away with several intimate physical acts. When she kissed baldy at the club, before Damian saying how kissing was special to her, its clearly cheating, I could understand kissing even on the mouth family members, there are peculiar traditions like that, but a stranger? Nope that is cheating. In Act 3 we learn that after telling to the MC she'd go back to him, she fucked Isaac, which again as many argued would be considered cheating, because at this point she had consented to be in relationship with the MC, and she betrayed that. At the Dance club she literally asked her husband if she could dance with the guys, saw he was frustrated about it, and went on with it, the fact she was clearly lucid enough to ask him about it and question him clearly about it, mean she knew what she was doing, so she effectively cheated on him because their wasn't given consent for her to do it and yet she did it. She hadn't taken more Ex afterward, yet at the strip club, and the BDSM club she also did whatever she wanted even if it was clearly without her husband consent and at his visible frustration, so cheating again.

So what did the MC do so bad? After she cheated on him during his free pass week he initiated possibly a few things, and after the free pass week was over he kept in some cases it going, at this point can he really be blamed? His wife had cheated on him and the more time went on the more betrayals from her he discovered, so he kept being involved with 'his girls' if they wanted it. He was entitled to so much when you consider everything Lacey did to him, that I don't see a problem with everything he did, plus it was Lacey's stated intent to sorta settle him up with a harem to some degree, so he just kept that going, while he never agreed to her doing anything with any other men, which she did.

Next issue, their is so much left unsaid because we don't see in Lacey's mind all that much, Lacey clearly as some interesting notions of what matters or not, she said fucking another guy doesn't matter, so does it mean she doesn't consider it cheating? So if that is the case how much could she has potentially held back? Even if she does agree that vaginal or anal sex would be cheating, does it mean she think the same of handjobs or blowjobs? Did she think like Clinton that oral sex doesn't count as sex? If that is the case did she give a ton of blowjobs that she considered as not counting for sex to not being cheating? Their is so much left unknown and we can't trust a single thing she says, so its possible their is alot she did that she left unstated, from the moment she figured 'I shouldn't say something if its going to cause grief to my husband' God knows what she is holding back from him. Was Isaac really the last guy she fucked before the MC or did for whatever amount of time in between that call and their reunion she considered again it didn't matter and just kept having sex to deal with when she got horny?

One of the main issues here is likely if you are a fan of NTR, NTS, Swinging & Cheating, you might have a very limited definition of what cheating mean, because since you don't mind the notion of your partner fucking around you are quite free with the liberties you think are fine for your partner to have, if however you aren't into all those things, your definition is likely very wide & strict, so those divergent point of views could very much cause massive differences in what is considered cheating or not.

Once again this is the main reason I try to stay away from the cheating topic. Way to subjective.

I agree with you that I consider Damian cheating. Like you said she planned it and went into intending to have sex. The MC had consented, but he removed that consent. I don't know that she saw the texts removing consent before or after getting high, but the reason she got high was so she could go through with it. So yes, I agree.

However, of what you have listed this is probably the only one I would consider cheating.

Morty at JD, I could consider this cheating depending on how far you took it. When she kissed him it was wrong and she should have refused, but he told her to do it. For me, when it becomes cheating is when she breaks their rule of being in the same room and takes him to the bathroom. So, not only is this subjective, but it was also a choice.

Jared was wrong and broke trust, but I don't consider it cheating. I'm sure there are many that probably think she actually had sex with him when she was staying late, but that was not in the material and the MC seems to have accepted that it didn't happen.

As for Isaac, that is not an issue. I have posted about that already, but whether it happened how Isaac said or not, or if it was just a writing continuity error, when the MC was told that story by Isaac he had no reaction. If it were an issue he would have taken note of it as he has done consistently through the story when things she told him did not line up. So until the dev, adds something into the game that expands on this and the MC takes note I'll treat this and a writing error that did not happen.

And I've already said how I feel about GD. The closest here I will give you is the dance club. She did ask permission. However, asking permission doesn't mean she was sober, it could still be her high who noticed him standing there and ask him for permission.
And at the strip club the way those girls acted. They were wasted.
As for the BDSM dungeon, every single person who knew what went on in that room whether Jeanette who was in the room or the others who watched the video told the MC that she did not cheat. The MC doesn't need to trust Lacey on this, just trust everyone else. Which he did and he deleted the video.

Anyway,
I did not ask these questions really for answers. I'm trying not to make a tally of cheating, because in the end the tally is only for me because everyone will have a different idea of what cheating is.
In the end if you chose not to like the game that's fine, nobody has to like the same things I do. Whether you chose to like Lacey or not is fine, once again you don't have to like the same things I do. All I'm really trying to say here is if you are going to judge someone look at those around them with the same conditions and you might find that they look very different.
This is part of the reason I brought up the whole Kelly thing. Someone made the comment that Kelly was a good character, but if you judge her by the same standards you judge Abby and Mia she is not the good character you think.

 

[Badboll]

But isn't not knowing what is in Lacey's mind half of the mystery?

I do not mind the occasional reveal here and there, but I think one cool thing the author did, is that the reader has to go through the same journey as MC about trusting her.

Granted, it is easier for the reader, MC has no basis aside from her words and her action and constant disrespect of him do not help.

I personally don't like that at all. I want everything she does from her POV, I want the 2h bdsm session shown. I think he doesn't because he's lazy. Easier to write about it than to render images and show it.
This update was the most boring so far in terms of sexual stuff. Also the Ai animations are horrible, but that's common among ai animations across all games here. They are all bad.
And I absolutely hate the whole MC freezes makes up in his head the worst possible scenario and runs with it storyline they've got going on here.
The psychologist says stuff like that can happen and it immediately happens in the worst possible way.
I get that the dev loves his trauma porn but at some point it's enough.

 

[AL.d]

The problem is while in theory the mystery is good, in practice it looks to everyone here less like a real mystery and just that Lacey does whatever the Dev want her to do to accomplish their narrative, I could appreciate a good mystery if I felt their was a good mystery, here Lacey's mind isn't a mystery its just whatever bullshit the Dev wants.

So its why I say we would have needed her actual insight, because since Lacey has shown little consistence as a character, we need her thoughts to be revealed to have hopefully some consistence. Right now it feel at some point Lacey suddenly decide she should be a slut, another she decide she should be a expert relationship guru, another time she decide she should be a good wife, but it feel that she is like a fucking Cylon and those thoughts engage in a specific direction when the Dev beam into her head the command for her to act one way or another.

If you remove the words and only observe actions, Lacey has been by far the most consistent character in the story. Not even close to the second. It's the contradictions that might make her seem inconsistent on surface level, but she is extremely consistent in those too.

She has followed a pattern of contradicting her claims with her actions from the moment she was introduced until this very update. And dev actually revealed her thoughts in 4k with her pseudo dual-personality breakdown in this update. The duality of "who I want to believe I am" vs "who I truly am", has been there since day 1 and it's the core trait of her character.

 

[JEER0X]

skimming through all the comments lately i see it's still the same arguments over and over everything has been said and everyone has different takes on what they think and what "they know." So i will do say "my thoughts" this time and pick the Usual brains like Deviant i like his takes on the updates most of the time.

I will not reference that other game that's apparently being tied to this one till i see a ghost or succubus or some other shit so for now i will base my thoughts on the game so far upto act 3 and yes i know about the lawyer or whatever from the other game

This update i thought at first it was gonna be a continuation of Lacey being lacey the Nympho (don't @ me i still think she's a nympho regardless of others opinions), brain damaged slut she is but...i was surprised i don't wanna give her any credit but in this act she did alot better at "trying" to shut some people and things down at least i thought so.

Before i get into it, I believe this is one of the best games out there and the dev is doing a great job destroying my sanity.

My Anxiety goes through the roof as soon as i see this on the front page updated, i know i am in for a crazy unrealistic ride, but i keep coming back.

I hate this game. I love this game.


The Vacation:

This was a mistake.
It should of just been Lacey and MC and most of what happened wouldn't of happened.
Abby is mia with a darker complexion and i hate her character as soon as she started trying to "Figure out" the MC i knew where it was going and that she would be the Instigator for this Act.
The thing that puzzles me here and it really shouldn't, why did mia let this happen? answer is of course its Mia, Janette on the other hand i was surprised that she let this stuff happen and even join in on it.

i'll be honest i skipped a bunch of the vacation simply cause i could easily predict what was gonna happen and it was infuriating to me ( by skip i mean i tapped Ctrl a few times to skip a bit here and there), this Nobody girl just comes in and ruins there anniversary for what? To Figure out the MC? To "Help" him and the Mc being the Mc just lets shit happen yet again cause he can't say no to Lacey or apparently anybody at this point. before you reply to this part read the whole thing if you are gonna comment on it cause i'll clarify some things as we go and remember this is My opinion and what i thought was happening.

I won't comment much on specific parts of the vacation cause it was pretty much a clusterfuck the whole time anyways aside from the date night. I will say that Lacey is constantly using Drinking and drugs as an Out to get out of everything or try to and it's getting repetitive. STOP DRINKING, STOP DOING DRUGS, while i get she was drugged without knowing at first, she simply shouldn't do it cause she has no self control at all, and while she didn't have sex with anyone, a lot of lines where crossed that a "Normal" married couple would not survive. And the annoying Abby coming in a clown suit was just dumb, "Sorry i fucked with your head and marriage on your anniversary" and all is forgiven cause MC is weak.

gambling i skipped a bit of this so i have to go back and play that part again, when i saw Lacey was being Wagered and what the MC described her as i was like WTF but i have to go back and play the vacation again before i give a total view on what happened, it was shady as hell and i wonder how this is gonna bite them in the ass later.

Issacs's house

Now i still don't know if this was a good idea or not, cause i don't trust Isaac still, However i do see what may be coming and i hope it actually does happen and it's referenced several times in the game, the girls will move in, how convenient there is a streaming room set up, Veronica is ready to do her onlyfaps or w/e its called in this game, it's almost like the house was made for this harem. take this part back cause i just noticed future tags

These Tags Will Not Be used:
Loli, Harem

so no matter what lacey is trying to accomplish there will never be a Harem, so i wonder why the dev continuously talks about how Lacey wants him to be with the other girls, would that not equal a harem? and if not then why waste a good portion of the game making it sound like its a possibility, that tags not used kinda spoils that part of the game, cause you go in knowing it won't happen.

The security setup is insane, and i hope that he or someone he trusts goes through it and makes sure it's a closed loop and not accessible online but let's be honest he won't think of that even if he is in IT cause plot

Barty

as i predicted is indeed a bad guy so +1 to me

The Monster, Still no idea who it could be

Will and Stephen

Will is just pathetic and i so enjoyed the interaction this act with him aside from the tag team with will and Stephen on Lacey, seems All the guys she banged are douchebags witch i guess is no surprise since they banged a drugged up girl over and over.
I am concerned as to Why Veronica keeps hiring people from Lacey's past tho and no one is questioning why all these men are showing up.

Side note...the fact that Lacey banged Professors (more than 9 i think she says?) is crazy to me, and it sucks that nothing will be done about that cause it's clearly just glossed over, what i would do and what apparently is OK in this world is insane.

I loved the way Will keeps getting shut down by Lacey and Mc over and over and i hope Erica comes to MC's side soon


Lorenzo

Man oh man i feel bad for this guy, so far he's the only one i feel bad for mostly cause his penis is so small but also cause his Dysmorphia and self image is broken.

I'll be honest at the library i was gonna shut it down but the Dev. supposedly says it won't effect later gameplay so i went ahead and let the threesome? Cuckold? whatever that was happened didn't lower goodguy score so win i guess.

Anna is Anna she's still sweet and the date thing was cool, i didn't get the BJ just cause it lowered the goodguy score, i worry about Barty's son coming after her now, guess we will see what happens with all this

Issac

Still not convinced he's a "good guy" now while the club scene was not what i expected i still wonder if he is supposed to be a friend now or what, guess we'll see with how the act ended, Issac has a chance to Help the MC or get rid of him.

Bethany

I did the TV thing but not the touching, simply again cause goodguy this round, if i play a "badguy" playthrough I'll do w/e i want

Jamie

lol what can i say here i went with it i wanna see those tits in the future

Yue

I made sure to text her and i guess left it open for something to happen later as well as offered boobs for her

Bella

this was interesting it seems Jared gonna be a sissyboy now?

Sarah

Finally a therapist, don't know why they waited till its to late but it is what it is, I am concerned she is so young at least by appearance most of his Diagnosis we already suspected and i really hoped they would get to the college stuff before the end but didn't happen

Kelly

I must have missed something so i will ask here, why did he make her in charge of his Estate? and pretty much everything else.

Guess i kinda get why she's fucking with his head, trying to get something to happen with him, probably not the smartest thing to do with someone that is on the verge of a mind break tho.

Mc

Well he's starting to lose it and imagine things and forget things not good.
he pretty much is the same as always, let's everyone walk all over him, say nothing, then explode in anger and hurt, the jealousy aspect of the game is well deserved he should be, and its normal since he is constantly in situations where Lacey is doing something stupid with the opposite sex


Lacey

Lacey Lacey Lacey, I feel this Act she did a little better, and didn't cheat of MC this time, but walked a very thin line, we probably won't know what happened in that BDSM room since we don't get to see it, all we have is what the other characters said, but it appears no penetration happened

Massage, i dunno either if anything happened in there, happy ending? who knows

I've seen people like Deviant talking about Ketamine and Extacy, i personally know nothing about the stuff, does it make you a dumb horny bitch who forgets she's married? i don't know maybe it does maybe it doesn't.

The Office

Don't know what Lacey supposedly conquered in that room, i assume she was fighting her other self, the narration from the game made it seem as tho the guys voices where coming outta that room, was the MC hallucinating? i dunno i guess he had to of been, doubt veronica woulda let Isaac and them in her house. The Picture was awesome IMO.

Lacey beating herself up and talking to herself was a trip, Defiantly a split personality there dunno if the Therapist is doing enough for her.

The Father and Mother and Other enemy's

I feel like the Dev is having to many things happening at once, to many branching paths, now we got her family doing something shady behind the scenes, Barty and his group, the monster (Friend or foe). The Casino peeps, Her Ex lovers all want a piece again.

Then we also got all these women who want Mc and are also causing problems for the couple

Lacey is not that much of a prize, sure she's pretty and a total nympho in bed, but no one would want her as a serious girlfriend or wife, she's damaged merchandise and it's crazy that all these pervious sex friends are stalking her, like is there no other girls in the world? And all these guys are converging on her city? if anything Supernatural is happening its that.

I would argue the MC is more of a prize since he is an executive, makes a bunch of money, is nice and smart and charismatic, if he didn't have this co-dependency and million other issues he might be a decent man

anyways don't really need to explain the Cliffhanger it was self explanatory

Remember these are what i perceived and thought of the game, you may have a different opinion and that's fine i am not close minded and if you have a good point that clears anything i missed up i am glad to hear it but i will ignore and not reply to people who attack my opinion in a malice way cause they see it differently.

I am sure i had more thoughts when i played it but it's already being archived in my mind and i may have missed some points i wanted to make oh well it's long enough.

See you in act 4

 

[DeviantFun]

I try to avoid conversations here about cheating. Mostly because it is a very subjective subject. What one person sees as cheating is very different from another.
Honestly, I am setting here trying to think of anything Lacey did in Act 3, that I would consider cheating and I can't off the top of my head. I don't and will not consider the stuff she did while she was roofied as cheating. I will agree to disagree for anyone that thinks otherwise.
So, if we narrow things down to sex (intercourse, BJs, and HJs included). Heck we can even add kissing into this. Since they were married, how many men has Lacey slept with outside her marriage? Of those how many of them happened while she was sober? Next how many of those happened without the MC knowing about them before they happened? Please don't think I am saying any of those were justified, I'm just saying lets list them.
Now ask those same questions about the MC. The questions are harder for the MC because alot of his are options.
I have not dug through the game to validate these numbers and I don't know what they are off the top of my head, but these numbers are close if the MC is not more.

If we talk about flirting, I'm not sure the MC is capable of talking with one of the girls without flirting with her.

I want to stress again, that I am not saying Lacey has not hurt or lied to the MC. However, I have seen growth from her in every act and she still has a long ways to go.

I think that what most people are referring to in the cheating is that both Lacey and MC in any other situation would define what Lacey did as cheating, but since the author wants to show that Mc is too jealous and Lacey just did a little oopsie it gets completely twisted.

Lacey dresses us in various slutty BDSM outfits, right?
This is what they both think about it in other acts:

MC "You had no right to spend our hard earned money on slutty clothes for Jared."
MC "No damn right."
MC "How dare you do that to me."
L "No I didn't have a right to do that."
L "Lying to you was wrong."
L "And there's no way for me to spin that any other way."
L "It was selfish."
L "It truly was a form of cheating on you."

MC "And even though you promised to stop dressing like a slut, you still did."

L "And I did tell you I was going to stop dressing like that."
L "Then I went and did it behind your back."
L "A serious argument could be made that I really was being unfaithful to you."

And these are only a few excerpts.

So ok lets say that now for some magical reason a bdsm sessions are not cheating in this universe, at the very least the dressing up is, because IN UNIVERSE, these characters stated that it is, their views are quite clear.

The real reason that it is now framed as "not cheating" it is because the Prof self imposed that there will be no forced NTR from act 1 onwards but still wanted to add drama, so he tried to reframe it this way, sorry to say but this was not accomplished, not because of any reader morality or thoughts but because the material is pretty clear about it and it doesn't make sense IN UNIVERSE.

Being high or drunk is never an excuse or make something not be cheating, else I can now declare myself the most faithful person alive on earth.

And even then why MC is not allowed to feel his feelings? Why should he kill them off? Is he not allowed to have them? If he is feeling hurt he should just "suck it up" because Lacey feels hurt that he hurt him?

Even Isaac is allowed to have his feelings validated, why not MC?
Lacey validates MC feelings ONCE in act 2 (act where Lacey's growth was astounding).

As for your question about when Lacey and MC cheated.
I stated it above, Lacey did a lot of cheating with the cherry on top of the cake being Bastion.

MC did not cheat for 2 whole acts, Lacey WANTS him to do the things he has done, even the messages with Veronica were okeyed by her even if Mc wants to talk about it further.

In act 3 I would cosidered Beth as cheating because MC tells her nothing is gonna happen, Lacey states that she is not interested in the small things and Veronica surely hammers this point down, but from the Mc standpoint and how he acted until now? definitely not good.
Veronica is a bit weirder to talk about, but considering that we do not know if Lacey and Veronica had the talk (probably yes but not in the material unless you count the breeding talk) and that the thing was in person and not on phone...

MC flirting and Lacey flirting are quite different too, but I always condemned MC flirting style.
The problem here is that Lacey is OK with him flirting, MC was NEVER ok with Lacey flirting, this is IN UNIVERSE, Lacey flirted after she cheated on MC with Bastion, and happily teased MC about it (if the author put it there to make Lacey wanting to make MC jealous because that is an assurance that he still wants her, more kudos to him, great hook).

I agree about the growth of Lacey, I bet you remember me singing her praises is act 2, the problem in act 3 is that the prof wrote some of her growth (stephen, will, trying to be truthful, facing her past) but then wanted to have some forced drama in Vegas (that made no sense at all) that make people (and rightfully MC) really doubt her growth.

I will state it again, the Prof needs to be careful with his characters, he needs to take care of them, if he keeps on bending them for narrative reasons and cheap drama his message will become diluted and unrelatable to his readers.
Like it is happening now.

 

[funnythings3785]

As I said before, this is not an issue.

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The only way it could be accepted is if it is a writing oversight. If it isn't there are numerous issues to unpack when you consider what Lacey has said over the acts. The MC not responding would then even complicate that more as the time has passed for him to confront it and him accepting it... completely throws his character upside down.

It not being an issue would be severely disappointing if its occurrence is as intended.

 

[funnythings3785]

One of the main issues here is likely if you are a fan of NTR, NTS, Swinging & Cheating, you might have a very limited definition of what cheating mean, because since you don't mind the notion of your partner fucking around you are quite free with the liberties you think are fine for your partner to have, if however you aren't into all those things, your definition is likely very wide & strict, so those divergent point of views could very much cause massive differences in what is considered cheating or not.

Absolutely... there are numerous layers of "cheating" outside of the traditional direct violations. Many also tend to be the lead up before the "cheating" actually happens, even if they are not specifically sought or intended by the eventual cheater.

Everyone... can end up cheating, it is how we handle ourselves, and the situations we allow ourselves to be put into that determine if it eventually has a chance to occur.

It is why there are some things you just don't do when you eventually commit to someone be it what you say, how you act, where you go and who you allow yourself to be around according to the situations that occur. Harmless can turn to harm very quick if one isn't paying attention, regardless if their intention is such.

When you consider those layers, simple actions, occurrences, etc..., they become important indicators and one who cares about another wouldn't want to even subject their loved one to that concern or worry.

It comes down to... "there are just some things you don't do" and Lacey tends to break all of these, but to be fair... the MC breaks quite a few as well.

 

[funnythings3785]

I think that what most people are referring to in the cheating is that both Lacey and MC in any other situation would define what Lacey did as cheating, but since the author wants to show that Mc is too jealous and Lacey just did a little oopsie it gets completely twisted.

Lacey dresses us in various slutty BDSM outfits, right?
This is what they both think about it in other acts:

MC "You had no right to spend our hard earned money on slutty clothes for Jared."
MC "No damn right."
MC "How dare you do that to me."
L "No I didn't have a right to do that."
L "Lying to you was wrong."
L "And there's no way for me to spin that any other way."
L "It was selfish."
L "It truly was a form of cheating on you."

MC "And even though you promised to stop dressing like a slut, you still did."

L "And I did tell you I was going to stop dressing like that."
L "Then I went and did it behind your back."
L "A serious argument could be made that I really was being unfaithful to you."

And these are only a few excerpts.

So ok lets say that now for some magical reason a bdsm sessions are not cheating in this universe, at the very least the dressing up is, because IN UNIVERSE, these characters stated that it is, their views are quite clear.

The real reason that it is now framed as "not cheating" it is because the Prof self imposed that there will be no forced NTR from act 1 onwards but still wanted to add drama, so he tried to reframe it this way, sorry to say but this was not accomplished, not because of any reader morality or thoughts but because the material is pretty clear about it and it doesn't make sense IN UNIVERSE.

Being high or drunk is never an excuse or make something not be cheating, else I can now declare myself the most faithful person alive on earth.

And even then why MC is not allowed to feel his feelings? Why should he kill them off? Is he not allowed to have them? If he is feeling hurt he should just "suck it up" because Lacey feels hurt that he hurt him?

Even Isaac is allowed to have his feelings validated, why not MC?
Lacey validates MC feelings ONCE in act 2 (act where Lacey's growth was astounding).

As for your question about when Lacey and MC cheated.
I stated it above, Lacey did a lot of cheating with the cherry on top of the cake being Bastion.

MC did not cheat for 2 whole acts, Lacey WANTS him to do the things he has done, even the messages with Veronica were okeyed by her even if Mc wants to talk about it further.

In act 3 I would cosidered Beth as cheating because MC tells her nothing is gonna happen, Lacey states that she is not interested in the small things and Veronica surely hammers this point down, but from the Mc standpoint and how he acted until now? definitely not good.
Veronica is a bit weirder to talk about, but considering that we do not know if Lacey and Veronica had the talk (probably yes but not in the material unless you count the breeding talk) and that the thing was in person and not on phone...

MC flirting and Lacey flirting are quite different too, but I always condemned MC flirting style.
The problem here is that Lacey is OK with him flirting, MC was NEVER ok with Lacey flirting, this is IN UNIVERSE, Lacey flirted after she cheated on MC with Bastion, and happily teased MC about it (if the author put it there to make Lacey wanting to make MC jealous because that is an assurance that he still wants her, more kudos to him, great hook).

I agree about the growth of Lacey, I bet you remember me singing her praises is act 2, the problem in act 3 is that the prof wrote some of her growth (stephen, will, trying to be truthful, facing her past) but then wanted to have some forced drama in Vegas (that made no sense at all) that make people (and rightfully MC) really doubt her growth.

I will state it again, the Prof needs to be careful with his characters, he needs to take care of them, if he keeps on bending them for narrative reasons and cheap drama his message will become diluted and unrelatable to his readers.
Like it is happening now.

I think he needs to throw out the "no forced NTR" condition. I don't have a problem with the NTR in a story like this because... well... if it is truly about the struggle, the characters, and the issues that occur in such, it is an acceptable "horror" to deal with in the story. By allowing it, he can then deal with the fallout of it when it occurs rather than doing what he did. That is far easier to stomach than what is essentially "gas lighting" the reader into a different acceptance.

It is the intent that is the issue here. NTR when it is trying to tell a story honestly, paying respect to the characters and their parts, while hard to read at times is something you can deal with (again, providing it pays respect to the characters, and well... I would add to the reader in how those characters respond to situations).

NTR usually though is driven specifically for kink purposes and it walks all over the story and characters (as well as the reader) to achieve its goals.

At times, I think the professor trying avoid NTR, is ending up with the same result, even though the intent is different. Like I said, properly reasoned NTR to drive the story is far more preferred in my view than trying to avoid it. Lacey cheating, it being acknowledged as such and the MC dealing with as such I think would be far better for the story because at least I could find reason in the characters. I had no problems accepting Lacey cheating in various past acts providing the MC got to deal with it in some way, but the direction in Act 3 has me flustered thinking much worse of Lacey and losing respect for the MC as well.

 

[DeviantFun]

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I cannot do anything but agree with you on every single point.

It was a big blunder imo, a bad character introduction for Abby (that now is being treated as a friend and apologized to by MC), a VERY bad look for Jeanette and a very bad look for Lacey, if for nothing just by the fact that she realized that she was being drugged and let it happen, which would never happen with someone with her past and after all the dialogues in act 2.

The gambling is now part with a bigger and bigger spy story angle, with big corporations going against Lacey, the framing changed from Lacey being wanted for her body to being wanted for inheritance or something.
Look I do not like this change too much but lets see where it goes, L&J is becoming something a bit different and I am willing to see how it goes before forming a complete judgement.

I will only say this, Barty should not have been used this way, since the Prof created other characters anyway, it just feels very very silly.

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So the reason that I think we are all framing it wrongly, and here unlike my usual takes I am gonna put some of my understanding in the material, is that Lacey and MC are not building a harem for MC, they are building a family for both of them.
The family theme is used often and they both have their families MIA (Lacey for obvious reasons, MC we have no clue why), for them, and especially for Lacey, Mia, Anna and Veronica are their family, MC adds all the characters that have wither lover status or lover greater than a value in his dialogue with Kelly about taking care of people with her power of attorney.

I think it is a great angle, you can already see Anna and Veronica being a bit sleazy with the situation and that could lead to some "storming and forming" between them, Lacey wants to have everything under her control, but they are human beings and as she is never in Mc control, no matter what she says, the girls are also not always in HER control.

Pretty inspired take if you ask me, as it seems to avoid setting up the usual: AH MC IS SO GREAT LETS ALL SHARE HIM WITHOUT A SECOND THOUGHT.

There is jealousy brewing since a long time, from the girls and from Lacey, it will be just a matter of time until it blows up (I am already lighting a candle for MC).

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The fact that these men are all appearing in the same place is a bit weird, unless it is explained with something like "the big bads did extensive reasearch and are sending the guys to create mayhem".

I mean we just have to put our suspension of disbelief and accept it, even if I think it would have been easier to just make Stephen a customer of Brimley that has to work with the art dept.

The stuff about the professors is actually a good hook that was let fall down, Mc doesn't react at all.
If you ask me it would have been way more natural to use these hooks (Isaac banging Lacey right after the phone call and the profs) instead of forcing drama with another "oh look it was the magical drugs".

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The problem with the threesome with Lorenzo is the buildup and the inconsistency with the previous material and statements/behaviours of the characters.

Lorenzo should have made the request, Lacey and MC should have discussed it and go a bit deeper, it was their first shared experience together.

The hooks to make it work where there, MC feeling bad for Lorenzo and Lacey wanting to help him.

Anna is being a bit craftly atm, I sort of like it.

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Come on he is a good guy, the Prof clearly stated that he changed the character so MC could see him as human.

I obviously do not agree on how it was done, from cocky star quarterback to youth pastor with issues, but this is how he wanted it, we have to accept it and move on.

I still think Mc should harbor more resentment towards him and every time they meet MC should take it out on Lacey (MC needs to grow too!).

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Beth was sopposed to be a tertiary character, but I am glad the prof gave her way more meat.
I am unsure why Mc would lose GG points with Anna, but he should lose them with her, since he promised nothing would happen, even if what happened means very little for Lacey.

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G cups baby!

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H cups baby!!!!!!!

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Yeah, the change in Jared seems a bit too forced and uncharacteristic, I would have loved if Bella (as the powerful woman that she is) was forcing him into it and he would end up liking it haha
But I can live with all this, power fantasy here we come.

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She is just an exposition tool for now, but ok, lets see where this goes.

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Yeah Kelly from act 1 is...kinda nowhere to be found.
Mc trust and like Kelly a lot, and finds her very competent, for anyone else or in any other story this would be reckless, but you have to understand how MC is with people and how he trusts people quickly (a good exposition is in act 2, MC promotion party in the hot tub).

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Yeah not much to say about him, still subservient, still without agency.

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The problem with the things that you mentioned, is that even if we erase all knowledge we have from the drugs effects and we take it as shown it on screen, it still makes little sense.

The drugs should be labeled "MAGIC ANTI MC", as the effects are different on the girls if they are interacting with him or not.
The girls are horny and with lowered inhibitions? only applies towards others, if they look at MC she does not care even if all three of them want to pork him bad.
The girls are confused and do not realize who they are with? only happens with MC, they are very responsive and active between themselves and with other people
Lacey is being very "tactile" and years for it? Only happens with other people, if she sees MC she has zero interest in touching him.

These are just a few examples but you can see how it all makes little sense even if you read the whole thing agnostically, a very big letdown just to have mediocre forced drama that follows a copy paste dynamic we saw before.
The Prof writes at incredible speed, but I think he should give himself more time, as scenes like this are really not up to his usual standard.

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Lacey faced her past, personified into those 3 stooges, he overcame her non confrontational nature and told them what is what and forced them to admit they were never good to her.
So why the fuck are they bothering her now? Why do they think they have a right to infringe on her life?
A very good growth moment.

It also gave the author a chance to correct act 1 making Lacey berate Isaac about the public humiliation (this time for MC perspective) and distantiate Lacey from him for good, breaking off any sort of connection that was there, for both of them.
Now I am gonna go more into my opinion, but Lacey is shown to still have some sort of connection with all three, this is a moment for her to break it off.

Honestly while the scene is good and powerful, I am still partial to the idea that she should have painted herself in all three phases, leaving the stooges out to be faced in another situation and moment.

If you think about it she repeats she never cared about any of them and ghosted them as soon as they wanted something more as her rule was "no emotional attachments", but if she didn't care about them why is she expecting that they would care about her?

This is a minor nitpick tbh, just because I would have loved for Lacey to face herself, to face THAT girl, the girl that should have not existed from a past that shouldn't have happened.

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Yeah L&J is very packed, while interesting, the Prof should consider resolving some of the plotslines or suspended events.
Some of act 1 and act 2 discussions are issues are still open, just left there and forgotten, to give space to new events (or in the case of vegas new cheap drama).


See you in act 4!

 

[DeviantFun]

I personally don't like that at all. I want everything she does from her POV, I want the 2h bdsm session shown. I think he doesn't because he's lazy. Easier to write about it than to render images and show it.
This update was the most boring so far in terms of sexual stuff. Also the Ai animations are horrible, but that's common among ai animations across all games here. They are all bad.
And I absolutely hate the whole MC freezes makes up in his head the worst possible scenario and runs with it storyline they've got going on here.
The psychologist says stuff like that can happen and it immediately happens in the worst possible way.
I get that the dev loves his trauma porn but at some point it's enough.

Well let say something, you can say all the things you want about the Professor, but I will die on the hill of him being the least lazy person in the AVN community.
The guy is a machine.

It could very well be that he tries to cram too much and is unable to deliver on everything and make him use shortcuts, but lazy? not a chance in hell.

I liked the Ai animations quite a bit, I guess this is a matter of taste, but L&J was never aiming for the best graphical experience, so I think that already having some animations and maybe adding more even for past acts is a genuine welcome addition.

I reluctantly have to agree with you about the trauma porn, he is really lying it down too thick and sometimes trips on stuff like this.

As a side note, while L&J is an AVN, it is a VN before it is A, you should not expect it to have sex everywhere and anytime, the sex scenes are also often important for dialogues and character building.
L&J is not quick fap material.

 

[JEER0X]

and that's how you reply thx deviant

Come on he is a good guy, the Prof clearly stated that he changed the character so MC could see him as human.

I obviously do not agree on how it was done, from cocky star quarterback to youth pastor with issues, but this is how he wanted it, we have to accept it and move on.

I still think Mc should harbor more resentment towards him and every time they meet MC should take it out on Lacey (MC needs to grow too!).

I do not keep up with the Prof so i did not know he changed Issac's personality, no wonder it didn't make since to me


As for Kelly, was it stated why he gave her all that power? did i miss it?

 

[DeviantFun]

and that's how you reply thx deviant


I do not keep up with the Prof so i did not know he changed Issac's personality, no wonder it didn't make since to me


As for Kelly, was it stated why he gave her all that power? did i miss it?

No, but even before therapy MC decides that his mental health will catch up with him, so he pushes for the power of attorney for Kelly, so she can take care of Lacey.

I would have moved this to after the first therapy session, because at that time we as readers are not particurlarly privy of the level of mental health issues.

 

[Mehdora]

Is Lacey is mentally healthy, all her brain cells must have died from her drug use.
As for her intelligence, I wonder if she can even feed herself or breathe in and out on her own.

This story is so unbelievable that I don't understand why there are still users here discussing the game.
For me, this game is on my blacklist.

 

[funnythings3785]

Is Lacey is mentally healthy, all her brain cells must have died from her drug use.
As for her intelligence, I wonder if she can even feed herself or breathe in and out on her own.

This story is so unbelievable that I don't understand why there are still users here discussing the game.
For me, this game is on my blacklist.

What did you expect going into the story? That will play a big part in your view of it.

 

[Maviarab]

I didn't even waste time thinking about that because my main point with Lacey has always been she doesn't love the MC.

They are trauma bonded but it can't be love because Lacey doesn't know what love is, she's never experienced it. She's attached to him in the way that the MC is her emotional crutch. He has been since she was a child.

She went from abused child to a heavy drug user and sex addict. She's had no time to develop any emotional maturity or any sort of identity. The MC is her safe space, nothing more.

I can't draw any other conclusion because their relationship is a chaotic mess of her constantly hurting him and her not giving a single fuck until she starts to get push back from other people.

This is mainly a problem with the writing and the constant drama. No actual relationship has been established. We've been told they are a couple and she loves him but she doesn't show it.

Gonna use the word i've repeated so often in this thread but there is a massive disconnect between what the game tells us and what the game shows us.

The only person I do believe has genuine love for the MC is Anna. She's seen him at his lowest when he was suicidal and still stuck by him.



The point I was badly trying to make is they knew it was a trap, they knew what was likely to happen, they planned for it and they all fucked it up.

And that brings me to the biggest problem with how it's being set up.

The dev keeps piling on the drama, it's a constant stream at this point, and all these external influences yet hasn't resolved anything at all in the group. Not one of them is capable of dealing with the external conspiracy while they are all tied up with their own bullshit.

The MC least of all, his sanity is completely gone now.

It's too much going on all at once, the drama influx needs to be reeled in and some of what is already there needs dealing with yet he keeps adding more.

The stuff with Lacey's mother should not be happening yet. That should come up when the MC and Lacey are on solid ground as a couple and capable of dealing with it.

It's not even a twist or shock value now. One of them fucking up is a meme at this point.

so the supernatural already exist within that reality, either accept it or move on.

The Dev has been systematically destroying the characterization and narrative for dramatic value,

All of the above.

It's just bullshit for bullshit's sake. there is no love or healing here, neither is there a story about it, just drama for the sake of cheap drama, how much the 'succubus' can get away with and keep lying/hiding things, with it being completely glossed over and everyone treating the MC like a doormat.....which is why I'm done (and I hate airline departure posts)....

Anyone wishes to take over the WT...you have my permission.

 

[JEER0X]

All of the above.

It's just bullshit for bullshit's sake. there is no love or healing here, neither is there a story about it, just drama for the sake of cheap drama, how much the 'succubus' can get away with and keep lying/hiding things, with it being completely glossed over and everyone treating the MC like a doormat.....which is why I'm done (and I hate airline departure posts)....

Anyone wishes to take over the WT...you have my permission.

aww i was just gonna ask where you was, i get it tho to be quite honest i skipped those parts in my post cause really it was not interesting to me, i already expected it or something like it to happen (Vacation) it's just expected at this point, Lacey will do dumb shit, mc will just sit there and do nothing, then explode later, "forgive loosely " her and everyone else involved and move on to the next Crisis

this Act was not as impactful to me as previous 2, simply cause i am getting numb to Lacey's bs, and the prof adding new girls/guys to cause issues. the Abby thing was pointless IMO

As for Lydia i just ignored them about the supernatural crap and i aint goin no where i been here since act 1 and i'll continue to be here till the games dead or it finishes, like i said when i see a ghost or a succubus or any other phenomena i'll then accept its in the game not just a random phone call from a lawyer

Any who Best of luck to ya Mav you and i play many of the same games so i'm sure i'll see ya in another games thread.

 

[Badboll]

Well let say something, you can say all the things you want about the Professor, but I will die on the hill of him being the least lazy person in the AVN community.
The guy is a machine.

It could very well be that he tries to cram too much and is unable to deliver on everything and make him use shortcuts, but lazy? not a chance in hell.

I liked the Ai animations quite a bit, I guess this is a matter of taste, but L&J was never aiming for the best graphical experience, so I think that already having some animations and maybe adding more even for past acts is a genuine welcome addition.

I reluctantly have to agree with you about the trauma porn, he is really lying it down too thick and sometimes trips on stuff like this.

As a side note, while L&J is an AVN, it is a VN before it is A, you should not expect it to have sex everywhere and anytime, the sex scenes are also often important for dialogues and character building.
L&J is not quick fap material.

Maybe lazy is the wrong word. But I stand by that I think he needs to do more for each scenario.
Show more things, more cgs. More backgrounds. More everything. I don't care if if takes longer to push out an update.
I just want more. The writing is what the writing is. It's his story I don't have to like every part of it.
It really is too much drama too much trauma and too much mental illness.
I wish he went harder on the sexy stuff and spread out the trauma porn more. He wouldn't even need to remove anything, just making it feel like it's further apart would make it feel like less.
More images over ai animations any day. At least until they get better at it. I'm sure Ai animations will be great soon.

 

[AL.d]

All of the above.

It's just bullshit for bullshit's sake. there is no love or healing here, neither is there a story about it, just drama for the sake of cheap drama, how much the 'succubus' can get away with and keep lying/hiding things, with it being completely glossed over and everyone treating the MC like a doormat.....which is why I'm done (and I hate airline departure posts)....

Anyone wishes to take over the WT...you have my permission.

I'd have no issue with cheap drama and no love or healing happening, if I had the most important thing I'm looking from something in the game section. The ability to periodically react to the shit that's happening on my screen, with my player controlled character. Even the bare minimum.

That was what was maddening about this update. It was a huge humiliation/cuck fest, where the player had absolutely no input, even in ways that wouldn't create a new branch. For example we could have had the option to let the dude throw a pack of money on the bitch sister's face, fuck off back home (the other happy sluts didn't even notice him anyway) and have her send him videos or something. Nothing would have changed, Lacey would still have been a slut, drama would have happened, but we wouldn't have been stuck playing the wiiling cuck prop from all those cookie cutter ntr games that have no real choice. Because that's exactly what happened.

So I get it, the only reason I'm still following is the trainwreck effect.

 

[Pugthulhu]

and that's how you reply thx deviant


I do not keep up with the Prof so i did not know he changed Issac's personality, no wonder it didn't make since to me


As for Kelly, was it stated why he gave her all that power? did i miss it?

I think it would have made more sense for him to have given it to Anna.

However, I believe the reason he gave it to Kelly is because she is professional, very good at her job, and he trusts her (unfortunately).
Think about it. Two of the times he had a mental break and left we went to Kelly for help and comfort.
All that together, it makes sense that he chose her.

 

[Pugthulhu]

I think that what most people are referring to in the cheating is that both Lacey and MC in any other situation would define what Lacey did as cheating, but since the author wants to show that Mc is too jealous and Lacey just did a little oopsie it gets completely twisted.

Lacey dresses us in various slutty BDSM outfits, right?
This is what they both think about it in other acts:

MC "You had no right to spend our hard earned money on slutty clothes for Jared."
MC "No damn right."
MC "How dare you do that to me."
L "No I didn't have a right to do that."
L "Lying to you was wrong."
L "And there's no way for me to spin that any other way."
L "It was selfish."
L "It truly was a form of cheating on you."

MC "And even though you promised to stop dressing like a slut, you still did."

L "And I did tell you I was going to stop dressing like that."
L "Then I went and did it behind your back."
L "A serious argument could be made that I really was being unfaithful to you."

And these are only a few excerpts.

So ok lets say that now for some magical reason a bdsm sessions are not cheating in this universe, at the very least the dressing up is, because IN UNIVERSE, these characters stated that it is, their views are quite clear.

The real reason that it is now framed as "not cheating" it is because the Prof self imposed that there will be no forced NTR from act 1 onwards but still wanted to add drama, so he tried to reframe it this way, sorry to say but this was not accomplished, not because of any reader morality or thoughts but because the material is pretty clear about it and it doesn't make sense IN UNIVERSE.

Being high or drunk is never an excuse or make something not be cheating, else I can now declare myself the most faithful person alive on earth.

And even then why MC is not allowed to feel his feelings? Why should he kill them off? Is he not allowed to have them? If he is feeling hurt he should just "suck it up" because Lacey feels hurt that he hurt him?

Even Isaac is allowed to have his feelings validated, why not MC?
Lacey validates MC feelings ONCE in act 2 (act where Lacey's growth was astounding).

As for your question about when Lacey and MC cheated.
I stated it above, Lacey did a lot of cheating with the cherry on top of the cake being Bastion.

MC did not cheat for 2 whole acts, Lacey WANTS him to do the things he has done, even the messages with Veronica were okeyed by her even if Mc wants to talk about it further.

In act 3 I would cosidered Beth as cheating because MC tells her nothing is gonna happen, Lacey states that she is not interested in the small things and Veronica surely hammers this point down, but from the Mc standpoint and how he acted until now? definitely not good.
Veronica is a bit weirder to talk about, but considering that we do not know if Lacey and Veronica had the talk (probably yes but not in the material unless you count the breeding talk) and that the thing was in person and not on phone...

MC flirting and Lacey flirting are quite different too, but I always condemned MC flirting style.
The problem here is that Lacey is OK with him flirting, MC was NEVER ok with Lacey flirting, this is IN UNIVERSE, Lacey flirted after she cheated on MC with Bastion, and happily teased MC about it (if the author put it there to make Lacey wanting to make MC jealous because that is an assurance that he still wants her, more kudos to him, great hook).

I agree about the growth of Lacey, I bet you remember me singing her praises is act 2, the problem in act 3 is that the prof wrote some of her growth (stephen, will, trying to be truthful, facing her past) but then wanted to have some forced drama in Vegas (that made no sense at all) that make people (and rightfully MC) really doubt her growth.

I will state it again, the Prof needs to be careful with his characters, he needs to take care of them, if he keeps on bending them for narrative reasons and cheap drama his message will become diluted and unrelatable to his readers.
Like it is happening now.

I don't want to spend time talking about the cheating topic when there is so much more we could spend our time talking about.

I recognize that people are not going to agree on this topic and all of the points I make or anyone else makes is going to make very little difference in how they feel.
I think that the Prof wanted the drama brought into the story. He wanted GD to push the MC closer to a break because the MC's mental break is the next big event in his outline for the story. He uses them getting roofied as a way to make an event that is of a level that ends relationships into a epic event without it ending the game and the relationship.

When I talk about whether or not I consider something "cheating" has nothing to do with whether I consider something being wrong.
Like Jeanette said about the BDSM event.
MC "If you were married, do you feel that would have been cheating?"
J "..."
J "No."
J "But I would feel the need to apologize."
J "I mean it though, nothing in there was cheating."