VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 3] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[WannabeShady90]

If we assume for the sake of the argument, that Lacey actually at least tries to love Captain SaveAHoe, there are two possible paths forward. (Reminder that the author definitly suffered through some form of the trauma he writes about, so this is what he is familiar with).
--> One path is that Captain SaveAHoe actually becomes the abuser. That's what I was referencing with the Nietzsche-quote "If you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back at you" earlier. That way Lacey would experiance the "love" of her father again - the exact one she has been seeking throughout the whole story so far.
--> The other path is the continued doom-loop Lacey just escalates. If we take her word for it and she is actually jealous and fears us leaving, it will probably include a kind of Harem-route to induce even more severe pain to punish herself. (Remember: She hates herself. She goes out of her way to experiance pain because she thinks she deserves it). If you wanted to actually "heal" her, you would need her to stop punishing herself and pushing everyone away in the process.

 

[funnythings3785]

MC knows Lacey lies to him and has known since Act 1. On my re-run through the story I'm surprised at the number of times MC mentions this to himself; I guess I skipped too much content on my first run through. He realizes how often she gaslights him, too.

Every time Lacey says, "you don't need to worry about it" that's code for, "you're on to something and I want you to stop because you might learn some truth; I don't want for you to know the truth about that."

As for the constant conflict w/ other NPCs I assess most of them, at some point in the story, claim to want the MC to be happy and healthy; Lacey's lies, gaslighting, and questionable (if not disloyal) actions toward the MC create friction. Folks don't like it when you lie to them or do/say things that harm people they care about.

Then, Act 3. So now I don't know anything.

That is part of the frustrating thing about the MC. He has awareness in most things. He can see the lies, tell when he is being manipulated and reasons this (outside of his constant turn to blame himself) as a serious problem. He just never acts to it to any ultimate result.

It is why I can respect his character in that (at least up to Act 3), but hate him and think him completely retarded because like I said, he never puts his thoughts to any action.

While he degrades over the course of the acts, Act 3 is... well... a really crappy representation of him in all aspects. Even his mindset, his inner voice begins to give up, ignore, and excuse things which when you combine that with Lacey's change, it is really devastating and makes Lacey look like a complete pile of shit (as well as the other girls), yeah... I know she kind of is all things considered and it makes the MC look like some super cuck toy for them to get their thrills on.

It would be counter to his character, but the suggestion of him hard cucking all the girls with an new character he meets while he is away actually sounds kind of appealing.

 

[DeviantFun]

Lacey was abused --> Lacey physically hurts herself --> Lacey starts substance abuse to numb the pain --> Lacey gets "Love" out of the most hurtful forms of Sex

I will not go into the rest of your post on which I might even agree, especially on the trauma and meds part.

But she started loving sex when she started having sex with MC, which if you look at the scenes, is not the "most hurtful forms of sex".
And feels love differently than what you are implying.

In theory what you are saying it might make sense, but it is not corroborated by the material, check the marriage night, damian and other sex scenes with MC (maybe not the wine bottle one haha)

 

[WannabeShady90]

I will not go into the rest of your post on which I might even agree, especially on the trauma and meds part.

But she started loving sex when she started having sex with MC, which if you look at the scenes, is not the "most hurtful forms of sex".
And feels love differently than what you are implying.

In theory what you are saying it might make sense, but it is not corroborated by the material, check the marriage night, damian and other sex scenes with MC (maybe not the wine bottle one haha)

Are you familiar with the concept of projection?
During the Damian-event, Lacey interacts with Captain SaveAHoe, which means she is aware of his presence and awareness. What does she know hurts him the most? Jealousy. She uses every trick in the book to inflict maximum pain to Captain SaveAHoe. What is it she thinks is love again? Correct: Pain
Lacey projects her kinks onto him. Her enjoyment is his suffering.

 

[WannabeShady90]

She even says it herself: His jealousy (aka pain) gets her off. That's the whole reason for the bar-flirting event.

 

[NewGuy2022]

No I do not think the Prof will ever write the MC as reasonable, if you look MC has only one big breakthrough (in the office) in act 2 which is then obviously bulldozed over by act 3 events (and wasn't exactly a great breakthrough either).

MC needs to be always oblivious, sort of immobile and without agency to drive the story further.

The examples are many and they crash with what MC is at his core sometimes:

• Starting from act 3, MC simply follows everyone's orders and even when he says "I will not do it" he then will do it (bdsm club day 4).
• When MC reaches the room and see Lacey crashing out with OS, he does't hug her or try to stop her, he just stands there, so we can get some exposition as readers, MC has experience with that situation and it is stated that he was always ready to stop Lacey self harm.
• At the end of act 3 when he leaves, does he leave of his own free will? no, it is mental health issues, imagine how much more powerful and character defining the whole thing would be if it came from his desperation and under his control.
• When the drug plan is concocted and brought to life, the maximum reaction we have from him is "I am disappointed", considering that Anna lied to him anyway, since she had a direct involvement (she is the one that sends Lacey home lying that those were orders from Veronica).
• Mia does bs? All cool.
• Abby does bs? All cool, actually let him apologize because why not.

So yeah, I do not see MC as a well written character in general, he does have some consistency and some of his ailments are portrayed very well, but he is an dashcam more than a character.

For what I was referring to, I meant that what Lacey does in college is different from what she does now, the motivations and even the acts are different.

As for his breakdown, he is probably seeing his fears that Lacey's actions don't do much to help.
Vegas is not a small oopsie, it is a major fuck up with some pretty heavy implications.




Amen.

Perhaps all of this is leading the MC to realize that he's the wrong man for Lacey and to be the "right" man for Lacey he needs to abandon all sense of self and become someone completely different. Which is what he will have to do for the two of them to have what the dev will consider a happy ending, I suppose. I don't see how the MC may remain the MC as we know him (personality, psyche, etc.) and coexist in what I would consider a happy loving relationship with Lacey. That's just... ...sad.

Everything that happens is the MC's fault, especially when it isn't. Soon we will learn that everything that happened in Vegas was his fault, tool. His only purpose in this story is to allow Lacey to do Lacey things.

I understand that it's the dev's product and he gets to write it his way... ...but I continue to be frustrated by knowing that no matter how bad the marriage becomes and no matter how desperate the MC's condition becomes... ...he will not be allowed to separate from the primary impediment to his healing. Whomever suggested the lobotomy for the MC earlier in this thread got it right.

 

[funnythings3785]

She even says it herself: His jealousy (aka pain) gets her off. That's the whole reason for the bar-flirting event.

Yes, but she hates, literally hates the aftermath of it. You are right, she absolutely craves his misery when she is making him jealous.

Personally, I don't think the whole cucking video incident was a result of her not realizing how she would be on K again, or anything along those lines. My theory is, the thought of knowing how much she would be making him jealous, how insanely in misery he would be in the moment got her so hot and bothered that she just let loose and that is why ALL the rules were broken because she knew every single broken rule meant he was suffering beyond belief and that is candy to her.

What she hates is seeing the consequence of her actions, the results of him in misery after her "high" is over with, having to deal with the fallout, the sadness and despair.

I still think whether she admits it or not, Lacey would love to have it where she could cuck him in the most hurtful ways, see him suffer in the moment, then have him massively angry, take her home and punish her near to death with extreme brutal sex... ending with them falling asleep in each others arms and him waking the next day with no thought or care to what happened.

If she could have his pain and suffering without the consequences later, I think she would eat it right up.

 

[Lady Lydia]

I get your position, but lets consider that your premise is literally "don't accept what they say, assume what they mean".

Usually a good writer will use foreshadow, hinting at various character motives and the like. So far, I haven't seen the professor follow this, rather it is as we have been discussing, chaotic, without reason and abrupt likely due to shoe horning characters into states for the sake of the scenes.

So until I see some specific development to that form of writing I am going to stick with taking the words as they are written to establish motive and intent.

One of the problem with reliability in this story is embodied by Lacey, what she says and what she do doesn't mesh together, its why in this story in particular I don't really trust anything. When you look at everything she says and you look at everything she does, their is a significant divergence, for somebody that doesn't want to hurt her husband she spend an absurd amount of time doing it. This goes with the perpetual praises the characters do of Lacey's supposed growth, when what we see of said growth compared to what we see of her callousness is pretty heavily leaning toward callousness.

In a normal story, where characters have proved to be reliable I would give the benefit of the doubt to what is said, but in this game? Yea not doing to do that, I assume anything that is said can very much be either lies, delusion or truth. With Truth representing at most 33% chances it mean 66% of chances are that what is said is bullshit, in particular from Lacey.

 

[WannabeShady90]

Personally, I don't think the whole cucking video incident was a result of her not realizing how she would be on K again, or anything along those lines. My theory is, the thought of knowing how much she would be making him jealous, how insanely in misery he would be in the moment got her so hot and bothered that she just let loose and that is why ALL the rules were broken because she knew every single broken rule meant he was suffering beyond belief and that is candy to her.

Exactly. 100% correct. That is how her brain is hard-wired thanks to the abuse she had to suffer through. But she isn't mentally stable enough to face the demons in the abyss that is her psyche.

 

[NewGuy2022]

That is part of the frustrating thing about the MC. He has awareness in most things. He can see the lies, tell when he is being manipulated and reasons this (outside of his constant turn to blame himself) as a serious problem. He just never acts to it to any ultimate result.

It is why I can respect his character in that (at least up to Act 3), but hate him and think him completely retarded because like I said, he never puts his thoughts to any action.

While he degrades over the course of the acts, Act 3 is... well... a really crappy representation of him in all aspects. Even his mindset, his inner voice begins to give up, ignore, and excuse things which when you combine that with Lacey's change, it is really devastating and makes Lacey look like a complete pile of shit (as well as the other girls), yeah... I know she kind of is all things considered and it makes the MC look like some super cuck toy for them to get their thrills on.

It would be counter to his character, but the suggestion of him hard cucking all the girls with an new character he meets while he is away actually sounds kind of appealing.

After Act 3 I don't understand what his character is anymore. Little, if anything, in this story shocks me any more. I'd love to see an assertive MC, too, but Lacey wouldn't like that and we know the story really is about what Lacey wants...

Yes, but she hates, literally hates the aftermath of it. You are right, she absolutely craves his misery when she is making him jealous.

Personally, I don't think the whole cucking video incident was a result of her not realizing how she would be on K again, or anything along those lines. My theory is, the thought of knowing how much she would be making him jealous, how insanely in misery he would be in the moment got her so hot and bothered that she just let loose and that is why ALL the rules were broken because she knew every single broken rule meant he was suffering beyond belief and that is candy to her.

If she could have his pain and suffering without the consequences later, I think she would eat it right up.

Yep.

For me, the reason why she uses K is because she knows being high will allow her to do what she wants (cause MC pain) without immediate regret (no inhibitions) and will give her an excuse when it's over, "it don't count when you're high." She knows the effect K has on her yet she uses it knowingly.

I agree with you that she really craves the "reclaiming" sex. To be honest, reclaiming sex is part of the kink of sharing, as I understand it.

It is a reasonable assumption, but... as it is always... will this come to be the reality of her character or will it end up... well... being ignored while some resolution is given that completely ignores everything to force a specific state the professor is focused on.

Unless or until I see something otherwise, I nearly always defer to the latter.

 

[funnythings3785]

One of the problem with reliability in this story is embodied by Lacey, what she says and what she do doesn't mesh together, its why in this story in particular I don't really trust anything. When you look at everything she says and you look at everything she does, their is a significant divergence, for somebody that doesn't want to hurt her husband she spend an absurd amount of time doing it. This goes with the perpetual praises the characters do of Lacey's supposed growth, when what we see of said growth compared to what we see of her callousness is pretty heavily leaning toward callousness.

In a normal story, where characters have proved to be reliable I would give the benefit of the doubt to what is said, but in this game? Yea not doing to do that, I assume anything that is said can very much be either lies, delusion or truth. With Truth representing at most 33% chances it mean 66% of chances are that what is said is bullshit, in particular from Lacey.

Agreed, which is why I simply theorize things, but don't put much weight to them. I try to stick to what is said, mainly because that is all we have to go by and the professors style of writing in the moment, while inconsistent does at the least set the value of the character in those moments.

The problem is when he changes drastically... is it a foreshadow? Is it some ultimate reveal? Or is it him simply "writing in the moment"? If it is in the moment, every theory on unrevealed motives is really just wild assumptions.

The reality, we won't know what the reality is until the story ends... then we will see if there is some meaning to the changes or if they were just a bunch of random scenes the professor was making and then decided to end the story on some other random idea that serves his purpose.

 

[DeviantFun]

She even says it herself: His jealousy (aka pain) gets her off. That's the whole reason for the bar-flirting event.

Hmmm, I am not sure about this, she is definitely an emotional vampire that feeds on MC's strong emotions (love, anger, jealousy etc) and this is stated in the material.

She enjoying his pain has not been confirmed yet, quite the opposite.

But who knows, since act 3 started everything we sort of knew about her got spun around, so this might be a point that will come up with the whole "resentment" part.

Personally, I don't think the whole cucking video incident was a result of her not realizing how she would be on K again, or anything along those lines. My theory is, the thought of knowing how much she would be making him jealous, how insanely in misery he would be in the moment got her so hot and bothered that she just let loose and that is why ALL the rules were broken because she knew every single broken rule meant he was suffering beyond belief and that is candy to her.

This I have theorized too, since the explanation was very....weak for me (thanks to MC I love sex now so K does not disassociate me anymore, like it is a fucking choice , you get enough K you disassociate, that is it.), but I stuck with the material knowing that the drug portrayal is....creative.

Now that we have some OS info, it could have been the OS influence flaring up under K.

 

[funnythings3785]

Exactly. 100% correct. That is how her brain is hard-wired thanks to the abuse she had to suffer through. But she isn't mentally stable enough to face the demons in the abyss that is her psyche.

It is a reasonable assumption, but... as it is always... will this come to be the reality of her character or will it end up... well... being ignored while some resolution is given that completely ignores everything to force a specific state the professor is focused on.

 

[funnythings3785]

This I have theorized too, since the explanation was very....weak for me (thanks to MC I love sex now so K does not disassociate me anymore, like it is a fucking choice , you get enough K you disassociate, that is it.), but I stuck with the material knowing that the drug portrayal is....creative.

Now that we have some OS info, it could have been the OS influence flaring up under K.

Yeah, it is hard to really say. I have given up on any specific direction due to the massive writing changes, so who knows, this could all be memory holed by Act 4 and what we see after that is a different Lacey.

It really is so confusing.

 

[Lady Lydia]

Yes, but she hates, literally hates the aftermath of it. You are right, she absolutely craves his misery when she is making him jealous.

Personally, I don't think the whole cucking video incident was a result of her not realizing how she would be on K again, or anything along those lines. My theory is, the thought of knowing how much she would be making him jealous, how insanely in misery he would be in the moment got her so hot and bothered that she just let loose and that is why ALL the rules were broken because she knew every single broken rule meant he was suffering beyond belief and that is candy to her.

What she hates is seeing the consequence of her actions, the results of him in misery after her "high" is over with, having to deal with the fallout, the sadness and despair.

I still think whether she admits it or not, Lacey would love to have it where she could cuck him in the most hurtful ways, see him suffer in the moment, then have him massively angry, take her home and punish her near to death with extreme brutal sex... ending with them falling asleep in each others arms and him waking the next day with no thought or care to what happened.

If she could have his pain and suffering without the consequences later, I think she would eat it right up.

Yep I agree with what you say here, but I wonder if that was merely a callous thought process she had under the K or her deciding in the first place to cuck the MC was for that reason, which is why I believe that Lacey is trying to corrupt the MC, try to make what she does acceptable so the MC will be able to overlook it in the long run, so she'll still be able to do sexual stuff with others and your notion she goes it so she can make him jealous and he'll 'reclaim' her make perfect sense. She is trying to bring the MC further along the line of corruption to be more sexually open and flexible, but not so far as she is, she want him more along the line of a middleground, sexually liberated but not a slut.

As I said I think when the cat got out of the bag and the MC got hurt by what she did in College she figured their is no undoing the past, but their is changing her husband to make it acceptable so he'll be able to get over it, its a twisted way to figure things out, but I can see the logic, intellectually speaking it make sense, emotionally speaking its questionable.

 

[NewGuy2022]

Hmmm, I am not sure about this, she is definitely an emotional vampire that feeds on MC's strong emotions (love, anger, jealousy etc) and this is stated in the material.

She enjoying his pain has not been confirmed yet, quite the opposite.

But who knows, since act 3 started everything we sort of knew about her got spun around, so this might be a point that will come up with the whole "resentment" part.



This I have theorized too, since the explanation was very....weak for me (thanks to MC I love sex now so K does not disassociate me anymore, like it is a fucking choice , you get enough K you disassociate, that is it.), but I stuck with the material knowing that the drug portrayal is....creative.

Now that we have some OS info, it could have been the OS influence flaring up under K.

I'm sorry; OS means?

 

[DeviantFun]

I'm sorry; OS means?

Other side, should have been clearer, apologies.

 

[NewGuy2022]

Other side, should have been clearer, apologies.

No worries. By that, I'm assuming you mean her other personality?

 

[funnythings3785]

Yep I agree with what you say here, but I wonder if that was merely a callous thought process she had under the K or her deciding in the first place to cuck the MC was for that reason, which is why I believe that Lacey is trying to corrupt the MC, try to make what she does acceptable so the MC will be able to overlook it in the long run, so she'll still be able to do sexual stuff with others and your notion she goes it so she can make him jealous and he'll 'reclaim' her make perfect sense. She is trying to bring the MC further along the line of corruption to be more sexually open and flexible, but not so far as she is, she want him more along the line of a middleground, sexually liberated but not a slut.

As I said I think when the cat got out of the bag and the MC got hurt by what she did in College she figured their is no undoing the past, but their is changing her husband to make it acceptable so he'll be able to get over it, its a twisted way to figure things out, but I can see the logic, intellectually speaking it make sense, emotionally speaking its questionable.

Well, it is one theory. Also your mention falls in line with that as well I think. Lacey doesn't want him to be like her, because if he was, he would be doing things outside of her control and she gets seriously jealous of him as well. What it "seems" that she may want is to bring him to just that point as you say to allow her to do as she likes, but still be reigned in enough where she gets to decide how things go, who he gets to be with, etc...

As to if that is completely supported in the dialogue, DeviantFun would be able to say, but it is at times how I see her act.

If we were at Act 2 though, I wouldn't be pushing this theory as much as there were different vibes and directions seeming to develop, but after Act 3, honestly... I don't think anything is truly off the table.

 

[WannabeShady90]

I still think whether she admits it or not, Lacey would love to have it where she could cuck him in the most hurtful ways, see him suffer in the moment, then have him massively angry, take her home and punish her near to death with extreme brutal sex... ending with them falling asleep in each others arms and him waking the next day with no thought or care to what happened.

If she could have his pain and suffering without the consequences later, I think she would eat it right up.

It is actually even more fucked up than that. Lacey uses the people like Anna who feel genuine affection for Captain SaveAHoe as an emotional tampon to pick up the broken pieces she left behind. There is a reason why I said multiple times that this relationship is beyond toxic. My theory is that Lacey tried "shock therapy" to make Captain SaveAHoe like her. Now she emphasizes everything must be built up with care like a garden. I fear she tries to gaslight him slowly into accepting some kind of open relationship, that's why she's building her "escorts" aka his harem and emotional support group up for him. Maybe that is even the reason our "antagonists" become more human over time like in: If he likes the people I cuck him with and give him control over it, he will accept it. If that is the case, I hope we at least get the option to back out like during the last events. If I am forced to stay with Lacey, I at least want her to be a loving, faithful wife. Otherwise I probably will drop the game. I want to see some resolution and path forward, not just continued suffering,