someyoungguy

Member
May 10, 2023
244
347
The thing about the too many characters management problem is that it's only a problem because they're trying to make two games at once, the sandbox and the VN. In a real sandbox, having extra characters wouldn't really be a problem because the player could just ignore the ones they weren't interested in. This isn't a problem inherent to the game, story, or number of characters. It's a problem the dev team has created for themselves by the way they approach creating the game. With good writing, the number of characters introduced so far wouldn't be a problem to juggle in either a sandbox or VN with well managed branching, but doing it while making two games simultaneously would be a nontrivial undertaking even for a studio. That's part of why it feels so unsatisfying for characters to just disappear. You're probably predominantly playing one of the two games you're being offered, and the total number of LIs introduced so far is by no means overwhelming. There are harem games with dozens of LIs where you can end up with more LIs than have been introduced in this game, so obviously the number by itself isn't the problem. It's a two part problem of poor resource management for the dev team and that the writing gets weaker every season, which could be related to the former problem
 

Bear in the Night

Active Member
Game Developer
Dec 16, 2019
878
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Bear in the Night Amelie is the best character for me in the game ;).
I love Amelie. She is freaking awesome. I really love femdom in non femdom games. It's a different feeling and Amelie gave
an awesome feeling. I enjoyed all the conversation, the build up before action. I love how she slowly seduce him to become her sub. I enjoyed that prosses very much.
The femdom scenes written really well. Dialogues makes the scenes more erotic and exciting to play. The writing and the good renders made the scene enjoyable. I am sad that no Amelie scene in season 3 so far. Waiting for more scenes with Amelie :).
I have question, I'll put that in spoiler.
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Hey!
Thanks for good words, but I can't really answer your questions, rn :(
But, I'll send your wishes to our writers
 
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Bear in the Night

Active Member
Game Developer
Dec 16, 2019
878
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What you have too in a game like this: As many LIs as possible. Most players would not care if MC ends up again with Lily or not, so it's safe to send her away. Grace and Gabrielle don't have been conquered yet, Gabrielle's story is somewhere half way, Grace's just started.
New girls need to be added to conquer, so those already conquered must go - with very few exceptions who are most players favorites (like the big Non-Sister).
But even such a prominent character who's story isn't finished yet could go on 'vacation' and return later, that would keep her fans waiting for her (and paying).

The shows with the cast growing too big didn't have that problem from the beginning, but more and more people were added over time.
Check DCs arrow verse, the character count is insane, they started however with only a handful of people. At some point they started to "send away" characters to spin-off shows and would return once in a while. If you have the capacity to do that, that's also a good solution. Of course that won't work in a story like this where everything must revolve around one character.

What this game badly needs is better writing. The characters co-exist, but easch one is quite flat, they also hardly ever interact. It became better in season 2, but there's still a long way to go. Since everything is optional without any trace of consequence (like in other games), everything feels very shallow and insignificant - which it is. The amount of people is not really the problem, it's how they are handled.
I agree about it being comparable to a television show. It's a problem for those, and it's a problem for this game as well.

Some of what you say would make a lot more sense if they would retire lesser characters, like Grace or Gabrielle, or if they would avoid introducing new characters to replace old ones (Naomi leaves but Dakota shows up; Audrey leaves but Penny arrives). You're not really managing the problem of too many when you immediately add another when one's removed. And it's the same with Season 3: Lily and Naomi are both gone now, but Audrey's back, we still have Grace and Gabriella, and we now have the new class: Kayla, June, Eva, and probably Wendy.

So sorry, but I don't think what they're doing is working even remotely well for managing their bloated character roster.
Yeah, usually schools with students good enough to be in programs like that also have their own programs like that. They're usually related to opportunities to study with a particularly prestigious department or professor, from what I've seen. So many people leaving, but none coming in makes it feel like the school is either just now trying to participate in wizard academics at that sort of level (after hundreds of years lmao) or can no longer command the respect required to draw in the highest quality professors or students, which is weird because the two most prominent professors in the game are supposed to be like savants in their fields of study. So it does seem strange no matter how you look at it.
By the way, when we discuss "poor writing," are we referring to awkward dialogue or a weak overall storyline? These are two distinct issues. If everything was poor, I doubt you would continue playing our game :) Currently, we are focusing on improving our dialogue system, so if that's what you're referring to, we're making progress in the right direction.
 
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-CookieMonster666-

Devoted Member
Nov 20, 2018
11,388
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By the way, when we discuss "poor writing," are we referring to awkward dialogue or a weak overall storyline? These are two distinct issues. If everything was poor, I doubt you would continue playing our game :) Currently, we are focusing on improving our dialogue system, so if that's what you're referring to, we're making progress in the right direction.
I haven't spoken about "poor writing", so I can't help you with that specific thing. But generally, I personally disagree with both of the above posters: I do think the number of characters is a major problem and not just a symptom of something else. There are so many characters that I forget names. There are so many characters that any I cared about early in the game lose their attachment to me as a player. There are so many characters that things like the primary storyline of the game get slowed considerably because updates focus more on some that are practically irrelevant other than a small discussion or sex scene somewhere.

When I say "practically irrelevant", I'm not talking about very obviously small side content, like the twins' massaging in Dale or the Mushroom Girl from the forest.

I think the better course would be to limit the character totals to allowing manual interactions of only a limited number, maybe 10 or 12 if you really want to have a lot anyway. In other words, sure the MC can speak with someone before, during, or after class. However, unless they are a primary LI or part of the main story, such interactions should be automatic and brief generally.

As mentioned earlier, a big problem ensemble television shows run into is that very few characters get much screen time at all, despite their importance more generally. But it's worse with a game, because it feels like there's very little point to interacting with many in the cast. That also means more resources are being spent on storylines of practically no consequence instead of those more directly tied to the MC, whether his love life or the greater overarching plot at Cordale.

I enjoy the game overall, for sure. I just get frustrated that about the time I start really to get into a character's story and the MC's interactions with them, they disappear. Sure, you could bring them back after a semester or two, but for me much of the impact of building a relationship gets lost with absence. It's the same as RL where long-distance relationships tend not to last for very long. Characters' absences make me care a lot less about them later on, even if there's a good reason for their being away.

Anyway, I can't speak for others, but that's my personal feeling with things. I enjoy the game overall (I only play the sandbox mode), but there are way too many characters to interact with to be reasonable in my opinion. And for any that you do develop a connection with, you should be prepared to forget all about them after a semester or two.
 

Nemo56

Forum Fanatic
Jan 7, 2018
4,982
4,080
By the way, when we discuss "poor writing," are we referring to awkward dialogue or a weak overall storyline? These are two distinct issues. If everything was poor, I doubt you would continue playing our game :) Currently, we are focusing on improving our dialogue system, so if that's what you're referring to, we're making progress in the right direction.
The storytelling for each story arc is shallow, but acceptable, the thing as a whole ... meh. The dialogs sometimes are a matter of fast forwarding.
Maybe something's lost in the translation as well and is not as bad in the original.
It's "good enough" to buy it, so I did.

And last but not least (not about the game quality, but production and management): The way you treat paying customers ... The latest update for S2 hasn't been published on GOG yet.
Don't tell me it's GOGs fault. If other devs can do it, so can you.
There's one dev in specific that always publishes on all platforms (the ones I know of are: Epic, GOG,Steam,itch,gamejolt,zoom) the same day. So it's definitly doable.
 
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someyoungguy

Member
May 10, 2023
244
347
By the way, when we discuss "poor writing," are we referring to awkward dialogue or a weak overall storyline? These are two distinct issues. If everything was poor, I doubt you would continue playing our game :) Currently, we are focusing on improving our dialogue system, so if that's what you're referring to, we're making progress in the right direction.
The story first season was good. Good premise, good art, and okayish writing. I'm not sure if maybe you were being cheeky or outright joking, but assuming that good writing is what gets or keeps players playing a porn game is a faulty assumption. It's the porn. Each successive season's writing since the first has gradually, but noticeably decreased in quality. Imo, to me, it seems that after the first season writing has been more about trope chasing and artificially building drama between characters rather than pursuing storylines effectively and developing relationships between characters. I don't think it's the system for the dialogue that makes it feel contrived and shallow, as much as the dialogue that's in the system.

The first season was probably one of my favourite games on this site while I was playing it. I was really excited to play the second season, and your pacing of updates seemed to line up favourably with the pacing of story per season in such a way as to make it seem that following the game would be a relatively immersive experience in the world. But I thought the writing would get better each season through a combination of the lead writer getting more experience, better translations (because the game seems translated, and idk if it's written in English or no), and gaining more writers to allow for more complex storylines while keeping up with the dev cycle. Especially after the game was put on Steam, this seemed like the direction it would be going.

Reading the game, though, it's seemed like the opposite of all those things has happened. The relationship with each LI somehow seems shallower and less personal every season. LIs disappear and reappear from season to season with explanations that don't make sense within the setting. The storylines seem somehow rushed and plodding at the same time. The translations (if the game is even translated, Idk for sure) somehow seem even worse, with more and more words and phrases seeming like either wild typos that happen to still be words or very badly translated, leaving you feeling like you're missing out on a lot of the intended meaning. Given that, it could be that all the seeming flaws in the writing could just be a result of really terrible translation. The overall structure of a work isn't usually that badly affected by translation errors, but this text is delivered piecemeal enough that perhaps that is the whole of the issue. Translations are usually better when the translator is a native speaker of the language being translated to and fluent in the language being translated from.

Hoping the writing would improve and the lewd scenes are the only reason I kept going into Season 3. But the writing is getting to the point where it's getting difficult to even get into the lewd scenes anymore.

I enjoy the game overall, for sure. I just get frustrated that about the time I start really to get into a character's story and the MC's interactions with them, they disappear. Sure, you could bring them back after a semester or two, but for me much of the impact of building a relationship gets lost with absence. It's the same as RL where long-distance relationships tend not to last for very long. Characters' absences make me care a lot less about them later on, even if there's a good reason for their being away.

Anyway, I can't speak for others, but that's my personal feeling with things. I enjoy the game overall (I only play the sandbox mode), but there are way too many characters to interact with to be reasonable in my opinion. And for any that you do develop a connection with, you should be prepared to forget all about them after a semester or two.
I sort of both agree and disagree with CookieMonster here. I don't think having too many characters to keep track of is a problem if all or most of the characters are optional, and there were clear indications when interaction with a particular character was required for story reasons. But LIs disappearing seemingly at random for flimsy reasons that don't make sense in context of the story is a big problem. I think it's fine to serve up LIs buffet style and let the players have to choose the ones they want to romance/spend time with. I've seen that sort of structuring of the romanceable characters make choosing who to spend time with and the resulting relationships feel more impactful, as well as increasing replayability for those who feel that they're missing out. I've played some games that have done that successfully.

I think a big part of the frustration I have is that it seems like the game is getting more successful, but the quality is dropping. The team makes time to remaster old seasons and create DLCs for them, but the characters become less articulate and more generic while the plotlines are all over the place. I don't know how big the team is, so I can't say this is what caused the drop in quality, but from the outside, it looks like poor resource management is dividing the team's attention and resulting in a lower quality product. It's clear there are very talented artists and developers on the team. The writer(s) that came up with the premise and expanded it for Season 1 did a good job. Maybe the writer(s) need more help or time to properly develop story ideas and dialogue. Your publishing pace is pretty quick for a project of this scope. In a lot of ways it seems that the team should have the resources to make a better story because they were doing it once, but aren't anymore for some reason despite the game's apparent success.
 

Diego Valent

New Member
Sep 11, 2018
6
4
I can't transfer my save to season 2, I don't know why but every time I try it says "New notice: Fail".
Please someone can help me?
My save is here if needed
 

-CookieMonster666-

Devoted Member
Nov 20, 2018
11,388
16,661
I can't transfer my save to season 2, I don't know why but every time I try it says "New notice: Fail".
Please someone can help me?
My save is here if needed
It sounds like you are trying to load a save in Season 2 normally. To get information to transfer across, you need to use the button (in the top right, I think) for exporting your save state for use later. (That's different than a normal game save.) Then, in Season 2, choose to start a new game and you should be given the option to load data from the end of Season 1. Choose that and then you should be able to continue on using your progress from earlier.
 

Diego Valent

New Member
Sep 11, 2018
6
4
It sounds like you are trying to load a save in Season 2 normally. To get information to transfer across, you need to use the button (in the top right, I think) for exporting your save state for use later. (That's different than a normal game save.) Then, in Season 2, choose to start a new game and you should be given the option to load data from the end of Season 1. Choose that and then you should be able to continue on using your progress from earlier.
In fact, I'm trying to do exactly what you said, but this error occurs.
Here is a screenshot of me trying to do this
 
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Solomon Grundy

Active Member
Nov 25, 2021
558
1,356
I have a potentially dumb question. In the calendar tab, some of the interactions it displays with different people are flashing. What does that mean?
 

micmitja

Forum Fanatic
Aug 6, 2017
5,733
6,084
I have a potentially dumb question. In the calendar tab, some of the interactions it displays with different people are flashing. What does that mean?
for some it shows that got active quests at that time, while for all it just show where they are. and can also use as travel+time skip to that event if click on it
 

Solomon Grundy

Active Member
Nov 25, 2021
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for some it shows that got active quests at that time, while for all it just show where they are. and can also use as travel+time skip to that event if click on it
Right, I understand all that. It tells you which ones will impact relationship or not, which ones will cause time to advance and everything. My question is, some of them are flashing, or pulsing, or however you want to describe it, while others are not. I'm curious what this indicates.
 
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micmitja

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Aug 6, 2017
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Right, I understand all that. It tells you which ones will impact relationship or not, which ones will cause time to advance and everything. My question is, some of them are flashing, or pulsing, or however you want to describe it, while others are not. I'm curious what this indicates.
slide with mouse over and should pop out tell you whats what.
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and so far havent seen anything that can impact relationship, at least with other npcs. each got their own quests.

and i see now where you saw the flashing, yeah its warning you that its i guess end of season quest or that season is ending
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so do other stuff and keep that one for last 1st
 
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Bear in the Night

Active Member
Game Developer
Dec 16, 2019
878
3,459
The storytelling for each story arc is shallow, but acceptable, the thing as a whole ... meh. The dialogs sometimes are a matter of fast forwarding.
Maybe something's lost in the translation as well and is not as bad in the original.
It's "good enough" to buy it, so I did.

And last but not least (not about the game quality, but production and management): The way you treat paying customers ... The latest update for S2 hasn't been published on GOG yet.
Don't tell me it's GOGs fault. If other devs can do it, so can you.
There's one dev in specific that always publishes on all platforms (the ones I know of are: Epic, GOG,Steam,itch,gamejolt,zoom) the same day. So it's definitly doable.
It's not a secret, that Gog is not our main focus, but we will update gog build soon
 
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