VN Ren'Py Abandoned Lust Campus [C3 Final] [RedLolly]

[Dynamite20]

thats gay... for some one so good at making erotic images to all of a sudden make a 180 and be a prude about it, my guess is he got caught by a SO or something. that shit doesn't just happen.

I get the guy if he doesn’t want to draw NSFW content because in the art industry, many artists got turned down for a job because they did NSFW content in the past and this may not be the reason he’s dropped out of the project maybe is something else who knows. It’s upsetting for everyone, especially those involved in the project, but I’m just glad that they didn’t abandon the project.

 

[Solomon Grundy]

I get the guy if he doesn’t want to draw NSFW content because in the art industry, many artists got turned down for a job because they did NSFW content in the past and this may not be the reason he’s dropped out of the project maybe is something else who knows. It’s upsetting for everyone, especially those involved in the project, but I’m just glad that they didn’t abandon the project.

My understanding is the situation here is a bit more complicated than that, however. Apparently, the artist is still listing himself as co-creator of the game, and was unwilling to make any more content for the game, but was willing to allow existing assets to continue to be used, but he wanted a high royalty fee every month as long as they were being used. The whole thing is odd, and I suspect there's more going on that nobody knows about.

 

[Mesmerizet]

Here's a dev's answer from the comments on why she can't keep Javier's art and has to do a total redesign.

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So basically Javier is not only being a crybaby about not wanting to continue designing lewd scenes, he also wants a cut of future earnings if the dev choses to use his art (which he was already paid for btw) from C1-C5 in any future variant of the game.

Sounds like a dick designer to me. He's been paid thousands at least for his work + the delay & disruption is entirely his fault, because he did not forsee working long-term for LC as a project.

 

[Dynamite20]

So basically Javier is not only being a crybaby about not wanting to continue designing lewd scenes, he also wants a cut of future earnings if the dev choses to use his art (which he was already paid for btw) from C1-C5 in any future variant of the game.

Sounds like a dick designer to me. He's been paid thousands at least for his work + the delay & disruption is entirely his fault, because he did not forsee working long-term for LC as a project.

Wait a sec.... He wants to be paid if she leaves his art in the game?
So she dont even have the choice to continue where Javier left of, that is HUGE dick move in my book and its not right since she paid for him

 

[Hildegardt]

Wait a sec.... He wants to be paid if she leaves his art in the game?
So she dont even have the choice to continue where Javier left of, that is HUGE dick move in my book and its not right since she paid for him

Did she pay him, or did he get a portion of the Patreon bucks? If she commissioned the art, she should be able to still use it. But it seems like her and Javier were more akin to partners.
It's also a dick move to continue to cash in on the work of somebody else. I don't think it's the nobel price worthy story that makes people sub on Patreon.

 

[Dynamite20]

Did she pay him, or did he get a portion of the Patreon bucks? If she commissioned the art, she should be able to still use it. But it seems like her and Javier were more akin to partners.
It's also a dick move to continue to cash in on the work of somebody else. I don't think it's the nobel price worthy story that makes people sub on Patreon.

For me it doesnt matter if they are partners or not, if he is bailing out of the project he cant have the right to ask for money on the project

 

[moskyx]

For me it doesnt matter if they are partners or not, if he is bailing out of the project he cant have the right to ask for money on the project

Erm... no. First, we don't know the exact terms of their initial agreement. Secondly, if she keeps using his art in the game and getting money for it, I don't think is that outrageous to ask for a compensation until his art is no longer there. After all, she's still getting some income thanks (in most part) to this previous art.

 

[Hildegardt]

For me it doesnt matter if they are partners or not, if he is bailing out of the project he cant have the right to ask for money on the project

Well, if he's supposed to get a portion of the Patreon bucks, then they either keep paying him as long as his art keeps bringing in Patreon bucks or stop using his work. I could imagine that being a condition on his contract. And if not, then RedLolly should've gotten a better contract, because Javier is the copyright owner of his work anyway.

 

[Dynamite20]

Erm... no. First, we don't know the exact terms of their initial agreement. Secondly, if she keeps using his art in the game and getting money for it, I don't think is that outrageous to ask for a compensation until his art is no longer there. After all, she's still getting some income thanks (in most part) to this previous art.

I agree with you and disagree with some things

First, you’re right. We don’t know what agreement they make and if they are even partners or if commissioned the art

What I don’t agree and is unfair sometimes is that he can still make money on the project, many artists, writers, designers had to leave their jobs and they didn’t have any rights or got any money from the game an example I can think of is when Konami fired Kojima, he write and directed metal gear and he wasn’t even allowed to get his award of the game because Konami wouldn’t allow it.

Imagine if the new artist leave on ch2 and he ask for money until she replace his art this will surely destroy the project, Even in animated shows artist leave the project and they get no money for the characters they created if they took money for that will be the downfall of the shows and the director so that’s why they make contracts that prevent this from happening.

Well, if he's supposed to get a portion of the Patreon bucks, then they either keep paying him as long as his art keeps bringing in Patreon bucks or stop using his work. I could imagine that being a condition on his contract. And if not, then RedLolly should've gotten a better contract, because Javier is the copyright owner of his work anyway.

When a Youtuber uploads a video and he puts in the video, an artist music he pays an amount of money and that’s it, he don’t give a cut of his profits every time he gets money from a video, the same goes with video games you hire an artist and you pay them to give you artwork if they stop working for you that’s it

 

[Hildegardt]

When a Youtuber uploads a video and he puts in the video, an artist music he pays an amount of money and that’s it, he don’t give a cut of his profits every time he gets money from a video, the same goes with video games you hire an artist and you pay them to give you artwork if they stop working for you that’s it

This is not how it works. If you put someone else's music into your youtube video, you'll get a copyright claim and guess what happens. All the ad money will go to the musician continuously until you reupload the video with a different song. This only works because Youtube has a deal with many publishers, otherwise it's actually against copyright law. Some artists will block your video and it will get taken down.
This is different than paying for royalty free songs on sites like audiojungle. But RedLolly didn't get their art on shutterstock, so it's not really comparable.

 

[Dynamite20]

This is not how it works. If you put someone else's music into your youtube video, you'll get a copyright claim and guess what happens. All the ad money will go to the musician continuously until you reupload the video with a different song. This only works because Youtube has a deal with many publishers, otherwise it's actually against copyright law. Some artists will block your video and it will get taken down.
This is different than paying for royalty free songs on sites like audiojungle. But RedLolly didn't get their art on shutterstock, so it's not really comparable.

I meant when the Youtuber paid the artist not put in on his video without paying, Yes its not the same I agree it's a whole lot different thats why in games and in every buisness they put contracts but I dont believe in their contract they let the artist take money when they leave the project

 

[Hildegardt]

I meant when the Youtuber paid the artist not put in on his video without paying, Yes its not the same I agree it's a whole lot different thats why in games and in every buisness they put contracts but I dont believe in their contract they let the artist take money when they leave the project

Maybe you don't remember the FBI warnings on VHS and DVD. That was there because it's illegal to publicly display art you don't own.
Big companies probably have a clause in their employment contracts that they own the art you produce for them. That makes sense, because they're paying you a monthly salary. But that's different for freelance artists. Freelance artists get payed royalties. For many artists royalties are the majority of their income, especially if they manage to get their work on a big movie or game.
Honestly, I can only say good on Javier. It's unfortunate that he's taking away our fapping material, but it's commendable that he kept ownership of his work. It's a little ironic to say something like this on a piracy forum, but art is already devalued enough in today's times.

 

[Redgy]

So basically Javier is not only being a crybaby about not wanting to continue designing lewd scenes, he also wants a cut of future earnings if the dev choses to use his art (which he was already paid for btw) from C1-C5 in any future variant of the game.

Sounds like a dick designer to me. He's been paid thousands at least for his work + the delay & disruption is entirely his fault, because he did not forsee working long-term for LC as a project.

That's kinda what the dev is trying to make it sound like but we can just speculate about what really happened. I would assume Javire known about the need to create explicit content and wouldn't have an issue with that, in fact, there are several sex scenes in the game, aren't there? It also would seem like Javier was not just an artist, he was a partner and him and the dev could not agree on the direction the game should take (the dev mentioned before how they would sit together and discuss it together). From everything that's been mentioned I can assume that Javire wanted the game to be more "classy" while the dev was more concerned on trying to appeal to her patreons. This is something she also mentions: "Javier's departure is going to be difficult, but as Breadloaf says, I think that in the long run it can be a plus for the LC scenes. There are many scenes that I have wanted to include throughout these chapters that in the end have not appeared in the game due to Javier's discomfort regarding the erotic material. I think this may be an opportunity to make a project totally my own, with my gaze towards the erotic (as you say, ironic, playful and sexy, with a certain naturalness)". So one possible translation to this I see is: "I wanted Alice to start blowing her prof under that table but Javier made me settle for a leg rub instead to build up the tension between the characters or something, so now we're through".

 

[Geigi]

Have they lost patrons after changing art, or gained them? I'm curious...

 

[MGUltimate]

Have they lost patrons after changing art, or gained them? I'm curious...

That would suck to lose for that, as it isn't in anyway the dev's fault. Just that one twat decided he didn't want to do it anymore.

 

[okfairenough]

Have they lost patrons after changing art, or gained them? I'm curious...

I'd be surprised if all her patreons stick with her over the next year given that there will be no new content releasing. And as the patreon numbers start to plummet, I fear she'll end up abandoning the whole project at some point next year. I'm skeptical that this art rework thing will work at all, although I see why she has to do it. Sucks to be Red Lolly right now.

 

[MGUltimate]

Just redoing the art for all shouldn't take that long as long as everything else stays the same. Changing other stuff could cause loss as having to start over pisses people off.

 

[LeeCleef]

For me it doesnt matter if they are partners or not, if he is bailing out of the project he cant have the right to ask for money on the project

This whole matter of rights is easy to explain:
Javier is a co-founder of Red Lolly, at least that's what he reflects on his social networks and that's what they implied in his presentation on Patreon, therefore a percentage of the company is his. If Javier leaves the project, he has three options: just give his part to his partner, sell that part to her, or ask for a percentage of the monthly profits. But his part of the company is entirely his and, therefore, he has complete rights over it.
Assuming they work as a company. If not, if they are simply friends who wanted to do a project together, then each one owns the part that he has done and, therefore, if they break up, each one takes his part and that's it. It is like, for example, if in a relationship with your girlfriend you buy the car. You both use it, she often uses it to go to work but in return she always pays gas and taxes, etc... If the relationship breaks down, the car remains yours, you have every right to take the car, but, since your now ex-girlfriend needs it more than you do, you agree to sell it to her or she pays you a small monthly rent to use it.

It's a very different case when you're an employee or a freelancer doing commissioned work for a company. Usually they make you sign a document that you agree to assign in perpetuity the copyright of commercial use of the material you make for them, you agree to resign your copyright forever. So if you make them an illustration, they pay you what was agreed and that's it, you can't claim anything in the future because you've signed a rights assignment contract.

 

[CoalPhelps]

So classic gamedev problems have reached adult games. This whole situation is reminiscent of Karpyshyn's departure from Bioware and the problems that arose because of this in Mass Effect 3.

 

[Overfoxed]

Still of the opinion they should do one big "catch up" update with the new art, even if that means a longer wait, rather than a chapter-by-chapter re-release.