VN Ren'Py Lust of Pain: Rework [Ep. 7] [Vilkas Creative]

[Jericho85]

I agree and disagree with some of the things you said.

TL;DR

Since everyone is different then we should expect different opinions and feelings towards certain situations. Sadly, this isn't the place where adults can have conflicting opinions without someone getting triggered, therefore, I stop trying to be cordial.

One of the issues I've always had with some of the rules of this forum is that there's certain things that are outdated. Outdated rules and definitions means more unnecessary problems. The NTR rule is one of them because this forum clings to this old and outdated definition of what Netorare is. And there's not just one example or type of someone getting cucked last I checked.

You can say jealousy is one, sure, but there's two other versions of cuckolds. There's the men that can only get off if they have another person/s in their bedroom(usually another man) or seeing their wife with as many guys at once as possible. Making them feel like they have full control over what she does in the situation. Then there's the men that simply just enjoy being humiliated, getting spat on, verbally insulted, the whole nine yards. Usually them just sitting and watching with their dick in their cages is one form of how they get off all while stepping aside and watching their wives/partner in action.

So as annoying as some of these overly sensitive players can be common sense is still common sense last I checked. If I play a VN and a see certain characters or situations... I've been playing these long enough to know what's geared towards my interests or others. It's no different then clicking on a Netflix series. You're gonna want to know what genre you're checking out, right? You're gonna wanna know what genre, who's starring in it, the director, the studio, etc.

With regards to the whole LI's having sex with people that aren't the MC. I agree that it's foolish to assume that these characters are just sitting around waiting for the MC to along. And I'm okay with LI's not being a pure virgin and having a past. Some players want realism, right?

Well, he's another problem with that. If you want to go down that route where we're making these AVN's as real as possible then how on earth are players allowed to see these fly on the wall scenes? In real life I can't watch someone else who's not me fucking 1 hour away from me, can I? It doesn't happen.

If I'm creating a AVN where my story is supposed to revolve around my MC then why would I waste time making scenes for characters with limited roles when I could spend that time building up character relationships? In games like this where there's a "Mother figure" already married to your father(This is why I can't tolerate too many incest games) anyone with a brain should be able to deduce that they are most likely having sex. But unless I'm making a AVN where I have multiple protagonist then why would make a detailed scene of it? The only time I would do something like this is if I create a AVN similar to something like "We Were Just Kids" where there's multiple perspectives or I wanted create something reflecting that of a TV show/Soap Opera.

This goes for any character in any game.

F95 is literally the last place to learn about tropes as complex as Netorare, and it's people like that dude who constantly spread bullshit definitions of it on here because they either fundamentally misunderstand it or they want it to mean whatever is convenient to their tastes. The trope has been around forever. There are standard elements to it. Elements that are absent from both LoP and LiL. An accurate definition of it is on TV Tropes, and it explains it in detail. Same with cuckoldry. But F95 is a terrible place to learn about tropes where it seems NTR is perpetually redifined as whatever the next drive-by feels like it means. If people actually did a little research before spouting bullshit, then there'd probably be fewer arguments over it.

LoP and LiL are tagged correctly. There is no cuckoldry or NTR in either game. At least not yet.

 

[Milton749]

F95 is literally the last place to learn about tropes as complex as Netorare, and it's people like that dude who constantly spread bullshit definitions of it on here because they fundamentally misunderstand it. The trope has been around forever. There are standard elements to it. Elements that are absent from both LoP and LiL. An accurate definition of it is on TV Tropes, and it explains it in detail. Same with cuckoldry. But F95 is a terrible place to learn about tropes where it seems NTR is perpetually redifined as whatever the next drive-by feels like it means. If people actually did a little research before spouting bullshit, then there'd probably be fewer arguments over it.

LoP and LiL are tagged correctly. There is no cuckoldry or NTR in either game. At least not yet.

It can't come soon enough.

 

[Beast Within]

View attachment 3861502
It can't come soon enough.

I am not so sure they fixed anything with the new tags. in fact some of them like harem got fucked royaly being open, again, to anyone's interpretation. perhaps the only one that is kinda straight up clear ( more or less) is the protagonist centric ( if I remember correctly at least).

my biggest issue, and I asked about it but never got an answer is why some tags talked about player and some talked about protagonist when it came to sexual content.
we shall see though.

I wont even go into the whole debate if scenes are ntr or not in these guys two games, since for me, game with "multiple dicks" go to the ignore. I play for the mc. not the neigbors's, neighbor's neighbor. and no, realism as an excuse is just that. an excuse. and a lazy one at that.

if you have 20 pages of people arguing about a scene, your best bet is something is not right. at least that is how I chose my games.

best of health to everyone.

 

[Jericho85]

I am not so sure they fixed anything with the new tags. in fact some of them like harem got fucked royaly being open, again, to anyone's interpretation. perhaps the only one that is kinda straight up clear ( more or less) is the protagonist centric ( if I remember correctly at least).

my biggest issue, and I asked about it but never got an answer is why some tags talked about player and some talked about protagonist when it came to sexual content.
we shall see though.

Yeah I agree. the Protagonist-centric tag seems to be specifically directed at the people who raise hell over this stuff. The types that mislabel any instance where LI's have a sexual history other than the MC as "cucking" or "NTR". Will it fix the problem? I doubt it. Those types are not known for correctly applying tags anyway.

if you have 20 pages of people arguing about a scene, your best bet is something is not right. at least that is how I chose my games.

More like a small vocal minority of shitposters known for stirring up NTR debates in game threads where NTR doesn't actually exist and then inevitebly starts calling everyone who doesn't support their misinterpretations "cucks".

LoP and LiL are far from perfect, but there is nothing wrong with the character interactions. The dev will portray things as he or she wants, and there's nothing wrong with that. The problem is with certain people's intolerance to female character sexual behaviors or histories involving other male characters, and those people's willingness to bomb threads over it. 20 pages of game discussion is a good thing, but not when those types constantly bring that shit up and redirect the thread back into another NTR debate.

Your approach is the right one, and one that I share. If I don't like a VN or tropes within a VN, I simply don't play it. This place would be more civil if the anti-NTR brigade did the same.

 

[Beast Within]

More like a small vocal minority of shitposters known for stirring up NTR debates in game threads where NTR doesn't actually exist and then inevitebly starts calling everyone who doesn't support their misinterpretations "cucks".

respectfully I will dissargee with this. a minority can not shift a game's direction. but money can. I have spoken with devs that got lured by ntr fans promising subscriptions if the dev made a li ( usually the mom in an incest game or wife f or whatever these people wanted to destroy) have a ntr scene. It is usual practise by now.
it wasnt a minority that shut down red falls. and mind you, you may see few vocal people in the threads but there is also the dev's chosen platform, discord and dms that we dont know about.

Now, fanatics and braindead idiots exist in either side but for me the ones who cause the actual damage are those who give mixed signals to the dev.

max's life is such an example where dev asked about adding optional sharing and some gave answers along the lines of " I dont mind, as long as it is completely avoidable, I dont see it, hear about it, it is with bright red letters and God guides my hand on how to avoid it"

and then, when those who actually liked that content asked for more, the dev in his blissful ignorance gave more and the "Jesus guide our hands" people, realising what they got, went berserk. now, we all know max's life state atm.
ofcourse the honest harem players who didnt want that shit had already lost their trust in both the dev and his game so in his new one dev is trying hard to get it back. I will causiously say that he is getting a little bit of it back since his new game, with fweer subs, makes more money than his old game with more subs.
mind you, I was a sub in maxes life before it went to hell with ntr.

I have a strong dislike for this fetish group (ntr/sharing/swinging/technicaly not/realism and any depitction of sexual activity that does not concern the mc) and I dont really hide it. but if a game has the tag right from the start, I just throw it on the ignore without even checking details, cause I dont care.

honestly I have seen people review bombing games that removed ntr so this goes both ways
but yes I argee withyou. if something you vehemently dislike is there from the start, just click ignore and mvoe on. peace of mind for both you and the dev.

p.s. hopefully we will not be flagged as of topic so I wont continue here, but my dms are always open for people who enjoy a good discussion and my skin is quite thick to be offended by a few heated words.

stay healthy first and foremost.

 

[Before I Forget]

I am not so sure they fixed anything with the new tags. in fact some of them like harem got fucked royaly being open, again, to anyone's interpretation. perhaps the only one that is kinda straight up clear ( more or less) is the protagonist centric ( if I remember correctly at least).

my biggest issue, and I asked about it but never got an answer is why some tags talked about player and some talked about protagonist when it came to sexual content.
we shall see though.

I wont even go into the whole debate if scenes are ntr or not in these guys two games, since for me, game with "multiple dicks" go to the ignore. I play for the mc. not the neigbors's, neighbor's neighbor. and no, realism as an excuse is just that. an excuse. and a lazy one at that.

if you have 20 pages of people arguing about a scene, your best bet is something is not right. at least that is how I chose my games.

best of health to everyone.

Same. I'm so over going back and forth with people on here about what's what. There's too many childish antics on here as is. I just know what I want to see and what to look for and if I decide to try a AVN out then it's obviously caught my attention. No time to shit post or bash games I know I'll never play to begin with.

That said. These Devs have quite a few games out... I don't know if they split into two teams with RWA studios being the other or whatever. But their projects like Lessons in Loyalty, Silent House and/or World of secrets or whatever else they all seem to have the same pattern so I don't see anything wrong with wanting clarity in this situation. Lessons In Loyalty in general is basically themed on you being the side piece as some of your LI's are already in relationships and will most likely have sex with their partners and it doesn't even have the multiple protagonist tag.

 

[Beast Within]

Same. I'm so over going back and forth with people on here about what's what. There's too many childish antics on here as is. I just know what I want to see and what to look for and if I decide to try a AVN out then it's obviously caught my attention. No time to shit post or bash games I know I'll never play to begin with.

I am right there with you on this. although some times I do enjoy a good back and forth with some folks in these forums, even if at times it gets "heated". I also pay close attention to the art since I am always on the process of learning more about daz/photoshop and especially blender ( though I am brick level intelect when it comes to coding renpy, so I have a friend doing that for me), tips and tricks to implement in the game I am making. And the art is what draws me in first, not gonna lie.