Comics Collection Melissa N. Collection [2024-07-27] [Melissa N.]

[Alicia Mae]

Alicia was saying that perhaps Elena has been seducing a completely lucid Nikos. In that scenario, it's still shitty of him to fool around with his niece's husband, but at least he's not an irredeemable monster who brainwashed, enslaved, and transformed someone's body against their will.

This is exactly what I’m saying. To be clear, this theory is not suggesting absolution for Nikos. He is a bad person. There’s no arguing against him being an amoral opportunistic pervert.

Even if you tried to interpret that as he lays it out there, and then interprets Andrew staying as Elena to mean Andrew WANTS to be Elena, that's a very selective and selfish interpretation on Nikos' part.

…It's as if Nikos thinks he can pleasure/fuck the Andrew out of Elena. That's not wanting a loving relationship. That's wanting Elena to be something specific (which he consistently demands out of her).

I think this IS a really selfish interpretation by Nikos. It’s likely exactly what he was hoping for, and now he has the green light. I think Nikos would genuinely love to fuck the Andrew out of his little wife. But given that Andrew tells Marina to only refer to her as Aunt Elena, Nikos might not be demanding Andrew to be something he wants explicitly, but things Andrew suggested “Elena” should be.

Nikos’ sudden change in behavior post-surgery makes me think Andrew showed up with his shiny new milf bod, in full makeup and a cute dress, called for his own identity death to stay safe, and Nikos eagerly embraced that because it meant his sexy little trophy wife was here to stay. It’s selfish, but it’s not as evil as the alternative.


A happy ending for such a dark story is hard to imagine. But physically speaking, Andrew is gone.

All that remains is a short Greek milf, who hardly resembles an aspiring American actor in his 20s. If there is no way back from this fate, one of the lighter endings I can imagine is if Elena chose this path herself.

This is all just a theory though haha. I love seeing contrasting opinions on here and how discussions don’t turn malicious, even during moments of disagreement.

 

[misseva88]

Honestly, I would say no. In the simplest difference: in Asoiaf, Bran is lured by Bloodraven. He's tempted by the idea that mastering these greenseer powers will make up for the legs he's lost. He doesn't fully know the cost of this power. And the flip side is that Bloodraven is manipulating Bran because he doesn't care what this will cost the boy. All he cares about his fulfilling his vision of what Westeros should be.

We've gotten nothing anywhere close to that with Elena. It's been a mess of motivations.

First it's "hey, that sounds like a fun challenge".
Then it's "well, $30,000 sounds good".
Then it's "Oh, I guess I accidentally promised to stay as Elena and apparently am so clueless I can't think of a single excuse".
Then it's "I'm worried that a mobster will get so enraged to find out that Nikos isn't married that he'll hurt the family."
And then, when he wakes up and realizes he's missing his dick, STILL comes up with absolutely nothing to reverse his situation.

Bran is lured by dreams of flying after he was pushed off the Broken Tower and became crippled. He doesn't start dreaming of any unachievable power. It starts with a kid dreaming of being able to move around freely when he loses control of his legs. The Three Eyed Raven starts small and grooms Bran from there.

If my interpretation is indeed right and the Aphrodite dream occurs in the past and is chronologically before the one taking place on Mount Olympus where Andrew loses his penis and gains a vagina, there is a slippery slope in the dreams too. The first one in the timeline is about making Andrew submissive, the other is about making him female. For a natural born man that's an escalation. His mind is broken into fighting back less before the physical change occurs.

If a person is scared into believing he'll be shot dead if he declines a request, can we truly say he'll voluntarily do things when he's asked to do them? If Andrew is being made submissive via his dreams, can we truly say it's his own call to walk the path of femininity?

At no point is there even a hint of a Faustian bargain.

In Quantum Butterfly the main character herself doesn't make the trade for her own femininity at any cost. It's a trade the universe around them make.

I'm not saying Andrew makes the trade. I'm saying it's something that happens to him.

 

[Thalantyr]

Bran is lured by dreams of flying after he was pushed off the Broken Tower and became crippled. He doesn't start dreaming of any unachievable power. It starts with a kid dreaming of being able to move around freely when he loses control of his legs. The Three Eyed Raven starts small and grooms Bran from there.

If my interpretation is indeed right and the Aphrodite dream occurs in the past and is chronologically before the one taking place on Mount Olympus where Andrew loses his penis and gains a vagina, there is a slippery slope in the dreams too. The first one in the timeline is about making Andrew submissive, the other is about making him female. For a natural born man that's an escalation. His mind is broken into fighting back less before the physical change occurs.

If a person is scared into believing he'll be shot dead if he declines a request, can we truly say he'll voluntarily do things when he's asked to do them? If Andrew is being made submissive via his dreams, can we truly say it's his own call to walk the path of femininity?


In Quantum Butterfly the main character herself doesn't make the trade for her own femininity at any cost. It's a trade the universe around them make.

I'm not saying Andrew makes the trade. I'm saying it's something that happens to him.

That's an interesting theory, however, Melissa posted this in response to some Patreon patrons being confused by what's going on in the latest update:


Note that she says that "Elena" is dreaming, not "Andrew", and that she meets Aphrodite "again". That makes it pretty clear that the dream is happening in the present. It also follows the same pattern as the Olympus dream. Both dreams immediately follow sex with Nikos (in the Olympus dream, Aphrodite specifically mentions that Elena was just having sex with her husband "a minute ago"), and both dreams lead to a memory that Aphrodite wants Andrew to see (in the Olympus dream, she says "let me show you the circumstances under which we met each other" right before the flashback of Elena waking up in the hospital).

 

[misseva88]

That's an interesting theory, however, Melissa posted this in response to some Patreon patrons being confused by what's going on in the latest update:
View attachment 3882051

Note that she says that "Elena" is dreaming, not "Andrew", and that she meets Aphrodite "again". That makes it pretty clear that the dream is happening in the present. It also follows the same pattern as the Olympus dream. Both dreams immediately follow sex with Nikos (in the Olympus dream, Aphrodite specifically mentions that Elena was just having sex with her husband "a minute ago"), and both dreams lead to a memory that Aphrodite wants Andrew to see (in the Olympus dream, she says "let me show you the circumstances under which we met each other" right before the flashback of Elena waking up in the hospital).

She does say an external being controls Elenas dream. Now I guess it depends how big of a leap you think it'd be for assuming control over a dream means also control over someone's behaviour. I think it's subliminally training someone via dreams.

 

[Thalantyr]

She does say an external being controls Elenas dream. Now I guess it depends how big of a leap you think it'd be for assuming control over a dream means also control over someone's behaviour. I think it's subliminally training someone via dreams.

I'd argue that "Aphrodite" is an internal being. I still believe that it's a literal dream and that Aphrodite is merely a manifestation of part of Andrew's own fractured psyche. That's why Aphrodite looks like Elena, and it's why she only provides information that Andrew himself would have had access to at some point. She is merely helping him remember/interpret/understand things he's already experienced first-hand. She's not granting him visions of other events happening in the world like Bloodraven. She isn't revealing anything about what Toska or Seferi or Joanna are up to.

 

[rebirth095]

I'd argue that "Aphrodite" is an internal being. I still believe that it's a literal dream and that Aphrodite is merely a manifestation of part of Andrew's own fractured psyche. That's why Aphrodite looks like Elena, and it's why she only provides information that Andrew himself would have had access to at some point. She is merely helping him remember/interpret/understand things he's already experienced first-hand. She's not granting him visions of other events happening the world like Bloodraven. She isn't revealing anything about what Toska or Seferi or Joanna are up to.

Anyone seen Dexter/Dexter: New Blood? A bit like "head" Harry or "head" (spoiler character). It can almost feel like they are a separate or external character, but ultimately they're still something Dexter manifests. Whenever they give advice or recall some detail, it's just a representation of how Dexter himself is processing the information and at times, punishing himself.

Speaking of shows with lackluster endings... I gave New Blood a shot because I was hoping it would reverse some of the bad of the original ending. And it was going so well, and somehow, the final episode fucked it all up again. That said, I love how they handle certain elements like Dexter's inner monologue and the "head" character in that series.

But regardless, Melissa has cleared up that this is just like the last dream: it's a dream in the present where we're flashbacking to the past. If this is intentionally done, both times were after sleeping Nikos. Last time, it was a bit like a life line. I'd argue Andrew was at the point where he was so gaslit he might have really thought he was always Elena. This time, it's a "punishment". Due to Andrew seeming to give in to being Elena?



That, or since the flashback is showing Andrew screwing over Marina, maybe it's punishment for something he got wrong earlier?

Actually, there's an interesting reversal here. Last time AFTER waking up from the dream/flashback, we get this:



This time BEFORE the dream sequence, we get this:



It would be fitting if this dream was happening basically as a "you dumb slut, why are you so easily fooled?"

By the way, I completely forgot that Gjoka's fingerprints were apparently found on the weapon. That means one of two scenarios:

1) Gjoka's prints were faked. The inspector is either not a real inspector or being paid off by Seferi. Regardless, there's no need to plant prints if you can just fake the results.

2) GJoka's prints were real. This requires Gjoka (correction, Seferi. Thanks Thalantyr!) getting his hands on a weapon Gjoka held. There would no need for real prints if the inspector was paid off, so this would mean the inspector is outside of the Seferi conspiracy.

 

[Thalantyr]

Speaking of shows with lackluster endings...

At least Dexter did us the courtesy of nosediving in quality for a full 4 seasons before pinching off that last turd of a finale. Can't be disappointed if you expect it to be terrible.

This time, it's a "punishment". Due to Andrew seeming to give in to being Elena?

That, or since the flashback is showing Andrew screwing over Marina, maybe it's punishment for something he got wrong earlier?

Assuming Aphrodite is Andrew that means he's punishing himself, which means he feels guilty about something. I'd guess he most likely feels guilty about ruining Marina's life... again. He's currently reminding himself of the first time it happened when he lost all their money, and now he's cheated on her by sleeping with her uncle and abandoned her by embracing his new life as Elena.

2) GJoka's prints were real. This requires GjokaSeferi getting his hands on a weapon Gjoka held. There would no need for real prints if the inspector was paid off, so this would mean the inspector is outside of the Seferi conspiracy.

I'd guess this is hinting that Gjoka works for Seferi (or they both work for the same person). Though I suppose the fact that the inspector is sleeping with Marina makes him suspect as well. Not exactly something a professional police detective should be doing with someone so close to his investigation.

 

[MyraTSF]

I'd guess this is hinting that Gjoka works for Seferi (or they both work for the same person). Though I suppose the fact that the inspector is sleeping with Marina makes him suspect as well. Not exactly something a professional police detective should be doing with someone so close to his investigation.

Now that I think of the shooting, the fingerprints and the inspector I think Marina might actually be the good one here.
After all she's a journalist and perhaps she feels more than just her feminized husband is off.
Sleeping with the inspector might be one way to get some info out, perhaps she also did it in a fit of rage and saw this way of getting information justified after what Andrew did as Elena.

The reason I think that is, we had moments of Marina alone, not needing to keep up a farce for example when she called her cousin and was informed that Elena is out in the ocean with Nikos and screamed this isnt the plan. With Melissas reveal of that Brazillian show she felt inspired off, I can now understand more why I constantly flip flop between Marina good/bad.

Maybe Marina is the only and real threat to "their" plan as she's the only one with a brain, unlike her husband.

 

[rebirth095]

Assuming Aphrodite is Andrew that means he's punishing himself, which means he feels guilty about something, and I'd guess he most likely feels guilty about ruining Marina's life... again. He's currently reminding himself of the first time it happened when he lost all their money. And now he's cheated on her by sleeping with her uncle and abandoned her by embracing his new life as Elena.

I generally think you're right. I personally think the guilt is twofold, related directly back to the thoughts Elena was having the bath.

1) Being so angry at Marina without recognizing a big part of Elena's complaints are about things that were self inflicted.



Elena DID sleep with Nikos. Based on the flashbacks:



Elena was the one that told everyone to treat her like Elena. I'm not saying Andrew isn't a victim. I AM saying that with a little introspection, Elena can be upset at Marina and also realize that it's mostly misdirected anger. Again, so much of Elena being upset is that she's having to fake this facade of being Elena, but this was a plan of her making! She can be upset about having to do this, but it's literally her own stupid plan.

2) Punishment for falling for Seferi's scheme. She's fallen for the trap and is about to start/continue another stupid plot.

I'd guess this is hinting that Gjoka works for Seferi (or they both work for the same person).

So in my post, I didn't say this explicitly because I can see an interpretation where that's not true, but it's quite a bit more complicated.

Let's say Seferi is trying to frame Gjoka, then that would really complicate things. Either they were working together, but Seferi now sees an opportunity to frame Gjoka and takes it to settle some kind of personal beef. Or they weren't ever working together, and Seferi is using this to kill two birds with one stone (get rid of a problem and get Elena back on track). But that throws way more questions up as to why they seem to be working towards the same goals right up until the framing.

Overall, I think Gjoka handing over the gun with the prints works the cleanest. Gjoka seems to have the kind of background where adding "shot Joel" to his crimes would just help his reputation, not hurt it. Not to mention, for all we know, he's not even in the country anymore, so pinning it on him isn't really a problem for him. Or he has a good alibi and can just say the gun was stolen. Regardless, "framing" Gjoka doesn't seem like a huge deal for Gjoka.

 

[rebirth095]

Now that I think of the shooting, the fingerprints and the inspector I think Marina might actually be the good one here.
After all she's a journalist and perhaps she feels more than just her feminized husband is off.
Sleeping with the inspector might be one way to get some info out, perhaps she also did it in a fit of rage and saw this way of getting information justified after what Andrew did as Elena.

The reason I think that is, we had moments of Marina alone, not needing to keep up a farce for example when she called her cousin and was informed that Elena is out in the ocean with Nikos and screamed this isnt the plan. With Melissas reveal of that Brazillian show she felt inspired off, I can now understand more why I constantly flip flop between Marina good/bad.

Maybe Marina is the only and real threat to "their" plan as she's the only one with a brain, unlike her husband.

I've mentioned this before, but I would be fully ok with this except for:



That's her inner thoughts. Granted, she's (rightfully) upset because from her point of view, it seems like Andrew is gaslighting her. But it's just so... petty? Vindictive? Absurd (seriously, how is "hot woman able to seduce an old man something worth flexing over?)?

This is single handedly the one panel that gives me pause. It's so blatantly venomous about Elena, it really is hard to reconcile this and still thinking Marina has good intentions. If this was some sloppy characterization... Like if Melissa meant for this to be sexy or something, to appeal to the cuck fetish or people into large age differences, but it came out just making Marina look terrible... I don't know...

Speaking to the journalist point, recall that a part of what Marina's concerned/curious about is Philip's recovery. Apparently it was "weird".



So I do think that the whole "Marina has a journalist background" is coming into play.

 

[Thalantyr]

I've mentioned this before, but I would be fully ok with this except for:

View attachment 3882375

That's her inner thoughts. Granted, she's (rightfully) upset because from her point of view, it seems like Andrew is gaslighting her. But it's just so... petty? Vindictive? Absurd (seriously, how is "hot woman able to seduce an old man something worth flexing over?)?

This is single handedly the one panel that gives me pause. It's so blatantly venomous about Elena, it really is hard to reconcile this and still thinking Marina has good intentions. If this was some sloppy characterization... Like if Melissa meant for this to be sexy or something, to appeal to the cuck fetish or people into large age differences, but it came out just making Marina look terrible... I don't know...

Speaking to the journalist point, recall that a part of what Marina's concerned/curious about is Philip's recovery. Apparently it was "weird".

View attachment 3882390

So I do think that the whole "Marina has a journalist background" is coming into play.

Do you think there's any possibility that Marina views Elena and Andrew as two separate people? I haven't taken the time to examine all her dialogue to see if there's anything that supports or disproves this, but what if she did witness Andrew getting lost in a character a few months ago and actually believed him? Maybe she's actually angry at Elena while still trying to help Andrew at the same time. She could want to destroy one and rescue the other.

 

[MyraTSF]

If so, maybe this story is kind of similar to a movie that I've yet to watch but has a similar sounding plot.

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- I haven't watched it yet because no one has been asking me for months to watch it! (Inside joke! Someone here has been trying to get me to watch it and I promise that I will eventually... ) Maybe Andrew is responsible for the death of a woman named Elena. I have no idea if she was related to the family or not. Nikos turned him into her replacement for some reason???

GREAT MOVIE!
Can only recommend it to everyone who likes forced fem stories with AP on top of it.

 

[Thalantyr]

GREAT MOVIE!
Can only recommend it to everyone who likes forced fem stories with AP on top of it.

Wait, what? It's been a while since I've seen it, but I don't recall any AP...

 

[misseva88]

I'd argue that "Aphrodite" is an internal being. I still believe that it's a literal dream and that Aphrodite is merely a manifestation of part of Andrew's own fractured psyche. That's why Aphrodite looks like Elena, and it's why she only provides information that Andrew himself would have had access to at some point. She is merely helping him remember/interpret/understand things he's already experienced first-hand. She's not granting him visions of other events happening in the world like Bloodraven. She isn't revealing anything about what Toska or Seferi or Joanna are up to.

It's definitely possible. I did name it as one of the possibilities earlier.

However, if Aphrodite is the driving force behind the feminisation the title of the story would make sense if she intends to make the feminised Elena into her own mirror image.

 

[Stevedore100]

I'm one of those that has brought up the "Nikos may not be bad" idea - I look at there being two possibilities to explain Nikos' not only denial of Andrews existence but his creation of a whole previous life fantasy, full of missed big weddings and pregnancies and all that:
1. Nikos is trying to ramrod Andrew believing he has always been Elena
2. Nikos, for some reason, actually believes all this himself and is in his mind, being completely normal

I think 1 is more likely, given that Nikos was a little too touchy freely with Andrew from the git go, but I can't completely discount #2. I will say that the daughters' encouragement of this relationship strengthens the argument for #1 (and makes them guilty too). If it was #2 I would think the they would be getting him to back off "dad you're nuts!"

It would be nice to know Sofia's(?) response to Marina when Marina asked her what the two were doing in out on the ocean. Did Sofia go with the Elena is real argument?

 

[Stevedore100]

Do you think there's any possibility that Marina views Elena and Andrew as two separate people? I haven't taken the time to examine all her dialogue to see if there's anything that supports or disproves this, but what if she did witness Andrew getting lost in a character a few months ago and actually believed him? Maybe she's actually angry at Elena while still trying to help Andrew at the same time. She could want to destroy one and rescue the other.

It's a possibility. All the miscommunication about the code word may have taken a toll on Marina. She knows a lot of this has been forced on Andrew, but some of it seems to be him accepting things as well, so I'm not sure she really has a good grasp on her feelings and how she views Andrew/Elena.

 

[MyraTSF]

Spoiler: Skin I Live In

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Great movie, wish I could do a "my version kinda storylike" sort of in the same vein but I feel like too many readers would go "Oh nyo it's too dark for me!"

 

[Thalantyr]

Spoiler: Skin I Live In

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Great movie, wish I could do a "my version kinda storylike" sort of in the same vein but I feel like too many readers would go "Oh nyo it's too dark for me!"

Spoiler: The Skin I Live In

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[MyraTSF]

Spoiler: The Skin I Live In

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The actors age yeah, but the persons portrayed inside the movie are different I think. As said it's not that big of a gap, but technically if it were a story somewhere you'd have to add that TAG to it

 

[rebirth095]

Do you think there's any possibility that Marina views Elena and Andrew as two separate people? I haven't taken the time to examine all her dialogue to see if there's anything that supports or disproves this, but what if she did witness Andrew getting lost in a character a few months ago and actually believed him? Maybe she's actually angry at Elena while still trying to help Andrew at the same time. She could want to destroy one and rescue the other.

Maybe? But again, it's kind of weird. And this obviously is colored by my own biases, but there's just a lot of inconsistencies in general that neither prove nor disprove that idea.

For instance, assuming the "bitch" in Marina's inner thoughts at the end of the sex scene refers to Elena, you have Marina's inner thoughts twice (consistently) thinking of Elena as "her". Now maybe this is me not being "progressive" enough, or Marina truly thinking of them as two separate people, or maybe this is showing Marina genuinely thinks of Andrew as Elena now... But just speaking personally, I know that in my own inner thoughts, for people I knew a lot longer as one gender, in my head I still default to the gender I knew them rather than the gender they are now. Hell, never mind gender, I have friends that have changed their names, or now go by a different nickname, and my inner thoughts take a while to catch up to what I know is true. Same with women that have married and changed their last names. It takes a bit for it to "sink" in.

I mean, even on this discussion board, I know I have, and I'm sure many people have, kinda bounced back and forth between Andrew, Elena, and pronoun usage just because of how complicated the situation is. And it depends on the circumstances too.

So I don't know how to interpret Marina's inner thoughts here. It's entirely possible she's so consistent within this scene because she's mad at Elena. Maybe, to her, the person who is pissing her off is Elena, the character that Andrew is acting out. She's pissed at this "version" of Andrew. It's like having a family member who you like, but you never like the person they are when they drink. This is a much more extreme case, but I can see you hating one, but not the other. "When you're like this, I hate you". That, I can buy.

This doesn't contradict it, but it's worth noting, Marina has a much harder time consistently thinking of Elena as Elena prior to the dinner and Nikos' sex trip.



Despite this being right to Elena's face and seeing basically a completely different person. At least for me personally, I basically have the opposite habit. It's way easier for me to think of someone as their new name, or especially gender, if I'm speaking to the person and seeing the reality.

So it's kinda hard to say. Maybe the later actions of ignoring the codeword and then running off to have sex with Nikos (from her POV) made it feel as if she was dealing with a new person. "Elena" is the bitch that goes off having fun and living the dream trophy wife life with the rich husband.

The flip side though is, does she actually still think there's an Andrew left worth saving? Or is her trying to end this more about putting an end to the crime(s?) that have been committed, and she's almost doing this for the memory of Andrew, not really for Andrew? Certainly possible.