RPGM Completed Mirage's Defection [v1.04] [chimaLABO]

[Telolet]

Thats made to be like that on purpose so you dont have to do replenshment with either, both or just one. It makes sure you have enough mana to do that so you can get all the scenes. The whole barrier thing I believe is just part of the lore and is meant to make you use your imagination its not really an impactful mechanic that should be taken seriously. And I dont believe the provocation is to weak because we arent in the LI's bodies. We dont know how the subjugation spell is actually affecting them, but to me it seems like it pretty much makes them think of sex 24/7 and Leo being the timid virgin type of character that he is, it would make sense that the females would seek out the easiest targets to relieve their suffering. Which are Iviel and the Soldiers. Luna already feels like she has to sexually interact with Iviel anyway to create the item to cure Leo. Luna being as devoted as she is would do pretty much anything to protect Leo and that point is made pretty clear. So all the provocation is there. Of course some of this is gonna be hard to believe because its based on magic and supernatural powers.

Yes you right, we don't know how subjugation spell feel on luna and yeah she will do everything to her master. But for me, from what i see, luna have strong mind and she knows sex isn't necessary to make the cure, ivieru still can make the cure even only from jerk off. In the other hand, ivieru want luna to submit from her heart even though he can control luna with subjugation spell.

So strong mind vs brainwash, and main menu is how luna get corrupted slowly and slowly. With how strong luna's mind, i think ivieru provocation is still weak, he need more strong provocation or great traps so that luna doesn't have choice but to serve him whatever he said, willingly or not. And like what you said, subjugation spell maybe make the target think sex 24/7, it such a waste not to show how luna feel in the morning and not make luna and ivieru scene in morning.

 

[Jazzhands27]

You know. If anyone is up for acutally having an in depth disucssion on mirage. Let me know. I'm a writer by trade. So what really gripped me were the themes and characters. So i'd love to talk more about it in between my H- game translations and testings.

Sure! How would you present Luna to make her betrayal option more believable?

While playing, I got the sense that the dev was trying portray her as being needy—as in needing her master's approval and attention—but him spending time with other girls makes her lonely and vulnerable. It seemed to be hinted at if you go the full corruption route, but the thing is Luna is the one that snubs the player. There's even an option to ignore snuggle time to get fucked by the demon. We the players know why she does it, but it doesn't play into her loyalty being eroded because she does it for him.

If there were options where the player chose to ignore Luna to spend time with Kurone or Kotori, then that'd be different. In that situation, the little demon could prey on Luna's insecurity, and make her feel more and more isolated from the player, and it'd be the MC's fault for snubbing her for other women.

 

[sirviper235]

Sure! How would you present Luna to make her betrayal option more believable?

While playing, I got the sense that the dev was trying portray her as being needy—as in needing her master's approval and attention—but him spending time with other girls makes her lonely and vulnerable. It seemed to be hinted at if you go the full corruption route, but the thing is Luna is the one that snubs the player. There's even an option to ignore snuggle time to get fucked by the demon. We the players know why she does it, but it doesn't play into her loyalty being eroded because she does it for him.

If there were options where the player chose to ignore Luna to spend time with Kurone or Kotori, then that'd be different. In that situation, the little demon could prey on Luna's insecurity, and make her feel more and more isolated from the player, and it'd be the MC's fault for snubbing her for other women.

I fully agree with all that you have said. The NTR route really has the problem of feeling forced and unnatural. Very little feel like something Luna herself would even consider or agree to. It’s only stuff she does because the player wants her to and chooses that.

And if you get the true ending and you see more of the backstory with her it makes even less sense and goes against her entire… everything honestly.

The core issue is simple. Luna hide the entire situation and pushes the player character away from her and snubs moments with him for no reason. Frankly, because of that. The NTR is completely separate from the characters relationship. I can and would like to get further into this, but allow me to offer the fix that you asked for.

it’s simple.

Take one of her most defining traits from chapter 1 and 2 and foucus on that.

Lunas darkness and how she winds up losing control and going into a frenzy attacking everything in sight and getting stained red. This is brought up to showcase she’s unstable and hint at some yandere traits she might possess. This is the perfect justification for the NTR route.

Have it so Luna is deeply concerned about it and afraid of this violent part of her hurting her master….AGAIN. Because plot twist. The players mana condition is LUNAS fault because she lost control once and stabbed him with the mirage and a piece broke off and is trapped in his body. Giving him his condition that she blames herself for and maybe hates herself for.

Have the demon/ imp show up. Bait that part of her out and have her snap and with kurones help fatally stab an illusion of her master. And in the aftermath have him manipulate that feeling of horror and fear by completing her with his simping personality by saying how she fights like a demon and asks if she’s half one and how he’s falling for her and all that garbage he spews out.

The wound/ bomb can be used here too to really pressure Luna who’s already shaken and afraid of herself. But importantly the change is this

Luna is offered the demonic subjugation because she is promised with a half lie that with it she’ll be freed from her rage and frenzy and be only able to love and cherish her master and feel more pleasure than she can handle through it and be unable to harm him no matter how badly she wants to. And as a bonus he promises to throw in the curse breaking item too.

This would fix pretty much everything wrong with the NTR route and only require a minor change and like one fight scene added, while sticking with Lunas character.

Why does she snub the player? She’s afraid of losing control and hurting him again.

Why would she choose to go along with any of the sex acts? Because the entire point of this is to control and overcome her anger and disgust twords the demon. Explaining why she’s not threatening and or attacking him when he’s clearly not adhering to their deal and is insulting her master.

And why would she get her ‘gift’ in the NTR route? Beacuse her rage issues were blocking her before and now she’s’free’ as was promised. But it turns out without that frenzy potential in her she’s much, much less of a threat or capable as she lacks her old drive and aggression.

So the mirage no longer works for her. And that’s why she’s so easily wiped by kurone in that ending.

I think this would be a much better story and simple fix that justifies her actions much more naturally and explains why she’s rejecting time with the player. Leaving her feeling lonely in exchange for the demon.

She’s doing it all for him. So when all this is over she won’t be a threat to him and she’ll be able to love him and be with him without fear of losing control ever again. And they can live happily together forever.

Only the half truth she was told left out that the subjugation would make her have a NEW master. Not the one she wants.

sorry if this is too lengthy but hopefully you can still read it.

Let me know what you think and I hope the idea is not too bad.

 

[Jazzhands27]

I fully agree with all that you have said. The NTR route really has the problem of feeling forced and unnatural. Very little feel like something Luna herself would even consider or agree to. It’s only stuff she does because the player wants her to and chooses that.

And if you get the true ending and you see more of the backstory with her it makes even less sense and goes against her entire… everything honestly.

The core issue is simple. Luna hide the entire situation and pushes the player character away from her and snubs moments with him for no reason. Frankly, because of that. The NTR is completely separate from the characters relationship. I can and would like to get further into this, but allow me to offer the fix that you asked for.

it’s simple.

Take one of her most defining traits from chapter 1 and 2 and foucus on that.

Lunas darkness and how she winds up losing control and going into a frenzy attacking everything in sight and getting stained red. This is brought up to showcase she’s unstable and hint at some yandere traits she might possess. This is the perfect justification for the NTR route.

Have it so Luna is deeply concerned about it and afraid of this violent part of her hurting her master….AGAIN. Because plot twist. The players mana condition is LUNAS fault because she lost control once and stabbed him with the mirage and a piece broke off and is trapped in his body. Giving him his condition that she blames herself for and maybe hates herself for.

Have the demon/ imp show up. Bait that part of her out and have her snap and with kurones help fatally stab an illusion of her master. And in the aftermath have him manipulate that feeling of horror and fear by completing her with his simping personality by saying how she fights like a demon and asks if she’s half one and how he’s falling for her and all that garbage he spews out.

The wound/ bomb can be used here too to really pressure Luna who’s already shaken and afraid of herself. But importantly the change is this

Luna is offered the demonic subjugation because she is promised with a half lie that with it she’ll be freed from her rage and frenzy and be only able to love and cherish her master and feel more pleasure than she can handle through it and be unable to harm him no matter how badly she wants to. And as a bonus he promises to throw in the curse breaking item too.

This would fix pretty much everything wrong with the NTR route and only require a minor change and like one fight scene added, while sticking with Lunas character.

Why does she snub the player? She’s afraid of losing control and hurting him again.

Why would she choose to go along with any of the sex acts? Because the entire point of this is to control and overcome her anger and disgust twords the demon. Explaining why she’s not threatening and or attacking him when he’s clearly not adhering to their deal and is insulting her master.

And why would she get her ‘gift’ in the NTR route? Beacuse her rage issues were blocking her before and now she’s’free’ as was promised. But it turns out without that frenzy potential in her she’s much, much less of a threat or capable as she lacks her old drive and aggression.

So the mirage no longer works for her. And that’s why she’s so easily wiped by kurone in that ending.

I think this would be a much better story and simple fix that justifies her actions much more naturally and explains why she’s rejecting time with the player. Leaving her feeling lonely in exchange for the demon.

She’s doing it all for him. So when all this is over she won’t be a threat to him and she’ll be able to love him and be with him without fear of losing control ever again. And they can live happily together forever.

Only the half truth she was told left out that the subjugation would make her have a NEW master. Not the one she wants.

sorry if this is too lengthy but hopefully you can still read it.

Let me know what you think and I hope the idea is not too bad.

Oh that's diabolical! I love it!

One thing, though. I thought she always had the gift of vanishing in another dimension, even before she gets corrupted? Correct me if I'm wrong.

If so, then I kinda took it as Luna gaining demonic abilities as well as lewd skills. When her eyes turn yellow to match the demon's, I thought she became something less human when fully corrupted.

 

[Telolet]

[

I fully agree with all that you have said. The NTR route really has the problem of feeling forced and unnatural. Very little feel like something Luna herself would even consider or agree to. It’s only stuff she does because the player wants her to and chooses that.

And if you get the true ending and you see more of the backstory with her it makes even less sense and goes against her entire… everything honestly.

The core issue is simple. Luna hide the entire situation and pushes the player character away from her and snubs moments with him for no reason. Frankly, because of that. The NTR is completely separate from the characters relationship. I can and would like to get further into this, but allow me to offer the fix that you asked for.

it’s simple.

Take one of her most defining traits from chapter 1 and 2 and foucus on that.

Lunas darkness and how she winds up losing control and going into a frenzy attacking everything in sight and getting stained red. This is brought up to showcase she’s unstable and hint at some yandere traits she might possess. This is the perfect justification for the NTR route.

Have it so Luna is deeply concerned about it and afraid of this violent part of her hurting her master….AGAIN. Because plot twist. The players mana condition is LUNAS fault because she lost control once and stabbed him with the mirage and a piece broke off and is trapped in his body. Giving him his condition that she blames herself for and maybe hates herself for.

Have the demon/ imp show up. Bait that part of her out and have her snap and with kurones help fatally stab an illusion of her master. And in the aftermath have him manipulate that feeling of horror and fear by completing her with his simping personality by saying how she fights like a demon and asks if she’s half one and how he’s falling for her and all that garbage he spews out.

The wound/ bomb can be used here too to really pressure Luna who’s already shaken and afraid of herself. But importantly the change is this

Luna is offered the demonic subjugation because she is promised with a half lie that with it she’ll be freed from her rage and frenzy and be only able to love and cherish her master and feel more pleasure than she can handle through it and be unable to harm him no matter how badly she wants to. And as a bonus he promises to throw in the curse breaking item too.

This would fix pretty much everything wrong with the NTR route and only require a minor change and like one fight scene added, while sticking with Lunas character.

Why does she snub the player? She’s afraid of losing control and hurting him again.

Why would she choose to go along with any of the sex acts? Because the entire point of this is to control and overcome her anger and disgust twords the demon. Explaining why she’s not threatening and or attacking him when he’s clearly not adhering to their deal and is insulting her master.

And why would she get her ‘gift’ in the NTR route? Beacuse her rage issues were blocking her before and now she’s’free’ as was promised. But it turns out without that frenzy potential in her she’s much, much less of a threat or capable as she lacks her old drive and aggression.

So the mirage no longer works for her. And that’s why she’s so easily wiped by kurone in that ending.

I think this would be a much better story and simple fix that justifies her actions much more naturally and explains why she’s rejecting time with the player. Leaving her feeling lonely in exchange for the demon.

She’s doing it all for him. So when all this is over she won’t be a threat to him and she’ll be able to love him and be with him without fear of losing control ever again. And they can live happily together forever.

Only the half truth she was told left out that the subjugation would make her have a NEW master. Not the one she wants.

sorry if this is too lengthy but hopefully you can still read it.

Let me know what you think and I hope the idea is not too bad.

YES THATS IT! oh nice, that's make the provocation from ivieru is stronger and make sense. And also the multiple choice is must have impact to story so it can affect the next choice. Like if you choose this you can't save luna anymore whatever choice you pick or if you choose that you will have chance to save luna.

But there is problem is mirage is the blade right? Doesn't that mean Leo get cured from teh curse bomb? From what i remember, the blade is always active so luna can always steal mp from her opponent. If Leo get cured from this accident then luna ntr not gonna work right?

 

[sirviper235]

Oh that's diabolical! I love it!

One thing, though. I thought she always had the gift of vanishing in another dimension, even before she gets corrupted? Correct me if I'm wrong.

If so, then I kinda took it as Luna gaining demonic abilities as well as lewd skills. When her eyes turn yellow to match the demon's, I thought she became something less human when fully corrupted.

Thanks! Honeslty i was hoping they would go this direction as i played as it simply made the most sense honeslty. But they didn't.

And to your question. Not quite. If you play the true/non NTR route. You find out Luna is just. really, really good at assasinatng. She doens't really have supernatural powers like she gets in the NTR route. It's kinda hinted she has untapped potential. But it's not really a thing there. She ONLY gets that in the NTR route which is a bit of a poor idea personally. As it's the same with Kurone. The player can get commincation magic as a gift on true route. But Luna and Kurone only get their gifts when corrupted. That's just a little dumb/contrived.

I acutally wrote out some deeper thoughts/theroies in a long post on the previous page that is spoilered. Feel free to read it if you want to know a bit about my thoughts on why the NTR route feels so strange and how wasted and oddly used Kotori is.

or if you prefer i can speak more here. It's up to you.

 

[sirviper235]

[

YES THATS IT! oh nice, that's make the provocation from ivieru is stronger and make sense. And also the multiple choice is must have impact to story so it can affect the next choice. Like if you choose this you can't save luna anymore whatever choice you pick or if you choose that you will have chance to save luna.

But there is problem is mirage is the blade right? Doesn't that mean Leo get cured from teh curse bomb? From what i remember, the blade is always active so luna can always steal mp from her opponent. If Leo get cured from this accident then luna ntr not gonna work right?

Thank you! As said. I was thinkign this was the direction they were going to go for the NTR route. But sadly didn't. The true route pretty much gives context to make the NTR one make even less sense but that's a whole other thing.

And to adress your point. Luna would of stabbed leo with it YEARS ago before game start. In the backstory/flashbacks during one of her frenzy's. So the mirage blade fragment/part would be inside him long before the game story start. WHich is the real cause/source of his condition. LIke it's stuck in a bone like an arrow head can be. It wouldn't make him immune to the curse/bomb. But more explain a bit bettter why it would take so long. Why Leo has his mana issues.

But ALSO justify why Luna doesn't want to use the mirage blade on him until the True Route's climax as she'd of already stabbed him once in the past. And be terriffed of doing it again. Hence why she never uses the obivous solution that only has a little risk to it.

And my own story take explains why she never uses it on herself to break the demon subjugation despite that being the obvious and easiest solution to her situation. Or why she never bothers even in the true route to bring anyone with her like one of the defence members that's trustworthy to make sure the demon can'ttry anything funny.

 

[Senya_boy]

Ok so im just gonna drop a little theory about the game, characters and especially the NTR of the game. Feel free to read if interested. I'll try to spoiler it but im not too familar with it so might do it wrong.

[SNIP]

Hey, so first of all, really cool thoughts (both in this post and the later ones!). Always interesting to see folks' different takes on things. I'm going to choose to focus in on a relatively specific point where I disagree, but I don't want that to make it seem like I ignored / otherwise wasn't interested in everything else you shared.

Spoilering just to make this easier to skip past for those that aren't interested.

Spoiler: Luna's Fall

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[Jazzhands27]

[snip]

And to your question. Not quite. If you play the true/non NTR route. You find out Luna is just. really, really good at assasinatng. She doens't really have supernatural powers like she gets in the NTR route. It's kinda hinted she has untapped potential. But it's not really a thing there. She ONLY gets that in the NTR route which is a bit of a poor idea personally. As it's the same with Kurone. The player can get commincation magic as a gift on true route. But Luna and Kurone only get their gifts when corrupted. That's just a little dumb/contrived.

I acutally wrote out some deeper thoughts/theroies in a long post on the previous page that is spoilered. Feel free to read it if you want to know a bit about my thoughts on why the NTR route feels so strange and how wasted and oddly used Kotori is.

or if you prefer i can speak more here. It's up to you.

I've been keeping up with this page since the game came out, so I saw it! Everyone seems to have a lot of good thoughts, and enthusiasm, which speaks to how enjoyable the characters are. Some obviously with stronger, and more consistent character traits than others, but overall a fun time.

Worse, the game inspires me to write my own smut, so that's always a nice bonus lol.

 

[sirviper235]

Hey, so first of all, really cool thoughts (both in this post and the later ones!). Always interesting to see folks' different takes on things. I'm going to choose to focus in on a relatively specific point where I disagree, but I don't want that to make it seem like I ignored / otherwise wasn't interested in everything else you shared.

Spoilering just to make this easier to skip past for those that aren't interested.

Spoiler: Luna's Fall

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Hey thanks for reading and responding. And your good. Honeslty all your points are pretty solid. However. I will raise you some counterpoints brought up by the game itself. Honestly i think most people only played the NTR routes and didn't get the true ending. So they don't know what im fully talking about. But let me get into it.

Spoiler: NTR route character issues.

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I hope i did the spoiler right and that it's not TOO long or comes off harsh in anyway. ANd i hope youcan take the timeto read it. Thank you fro enganging with me! And i quite enjoyed your thoughts and responces.

 

[sirviper235]

Hey, so first of all, really cool thoughts (both in this post and the later ones!). Always interesting to see folks' different takes on things. I'm going to choose to focus in on a relatively specific point where I disagree, but I don't want that to make it seem like I ignored / otherwise wasn't interested in everything else you shared.

Spoilering just to make this easier to skip past for those that aren't interested.

Spoiler: Luna's Fall

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I would also be very curious to read your thougths on what i wrote that you responded to. I have further ones as well from w hat i noticed as i played both rotues and what i noticed when i played the previous game and saw the dev logs whene looking up the new game they are making/sequel game.

 

[Telolet]

I understand the point that even Luna have strong will strong mind she still will to do whatever ivieru said. But its also ivieru who want Luna to submit by her own will. If the process doesn't matter, if the reason doesn't matter, than why give us a multiple choice? Just give us a bunch of scene when Leo doing night patrol and there you go a NTR route. How to make Luna comeback to Leo? I don't know, maybe make plot the corrupted Luna get stabbed by mirage, either accidentaly or not. Or maybe get pured by the treasure? Lets say Leo still manage to save the treasure and almost get killed by Luna and the Boom the treasure suddenly glowing and neuteralize the curse from the demon, Luna comback to Leo and then Kill Ivieru. Why she need more plot? Because Luna comeback to Leo only by kissing is also doesn't make sense, more over when she already corrupted that far.

Oh and don't forget, it's not only about ivieru and Luna but also Leo and Kurone. Their relationship can have an impact to story but yeah, its pretty same with Ivieru and Luna. Doesn't matter how far his relationship with Kurone, its doesn't have impact on Luna or the story.

 

[Senya_boy]

[SNIP]

Gonna try to keep this response (relatively) short, so won't be spoilering.

I definitely agree with you on how intense Luna's loyalty is, to the point of being arguably unhealthy. I just don't think that necessarily means that it could stand up to the effects of the magic. It's just as fair to say "the magic can overcome any willpower, no matter how strong" as it is to say "willpower can resist any magic, no matter how strong", after all.

(Sidenote, Telo does raise the point in the post just before this about Ivieru talking about wanting her to come over 'of her own will', which does definitely clash with my brainwashing interpretation; but, well, villains in that sort of context tend to not be particularly honest, and / or have strange interpretations of "of one's own free will", given they can literally change what that 'free' will is).

Now, a more interesting point that I get out of your latest thoughts here is the argument that the loyalty to Leo is so absolutely core to who Luna is that, even if something could magically replace it, it would just completely break down who she is. I think that would have been a fascinating direction for a story to have explored more directly, but even with that, I don't think it contradicts what we saw.

One interpretation, and what I'd probably default to since it comes up in this sort of material a ton, is 'death of self': yes, you are absolutely right, 'Luna' couldn't possibly have her loyalty to Leo replaced, and therefore what we have in the end of the NTR route isn't Luna anymore at all. It's some newly created persona, distressingly similar in many ways, completely different in the ways that matter, puppet-ing around her body. This is way more MC kink than NTR kink talk, but that's the sort of end-situation that comes up a ton, and can be so hard-hittingly distressing and disgusting and enraging and erotic all at once.

Alternatively / along with that, you could argue that her loyalty being so core to who she is is the very reason she does fall so completely. She's so unable to grasp the concept of the loyalty even wavering at all, that once she realizes the spell has started to overwrite it in her mind, she basically isn't able to process, and shuts down mentally, allowing the curse full reign.

Now, to all of that, you could say (thought I'm sure you would in nicer words): "That's all shit you completely made up! None of that is in the text!", which would be entirely fair. I would just reiterate my point, since I think it's pretty critical to understanding where I'm coming from with a lot of this, that for better or for worse, I view this game as really expecting the player to fill in a lot of the blanks it leaves with their own interpretations and stories.

 

[TheDarkDude]

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Hopefully Im not too retarded and this should contain version 1.05. Some bug fixes but more importantly some new dialogues for chapter 4 and 5.

 

[Rugerrell6]

Yes you right, we don't know how subjugation spell feel on luna and yeah she will do everything to her master. But for me, from what i see, luna have strong mind and she knows sex isn't necessary to make the cure, ivieru still can make the cure even only from jerk off. In the other hand, ivieru want luna to submit from her heart even though he can control luna with subjugation spell.

So strong mind vs brainwash, and main menu is how luna get corrupted slowly and slowly. With how strong luna's mind, i think ivieru provocation is still weak, he need more strong provocation or great traps so that luna doesn't have choice but to serve him whatever he said, willingly or not. And like what you said, subjugation spell maybe make the target think sex 24/7, it such a waste not to show how luna feel in the morning and not make luna and ivieru scene in morning.

Yea that would be cool and interesting to see them actually doing something in the morning because it would reinforce the point we were just talking about. And one of the things that makes me think it makes the heroines think about sex 24/7 is a scene when they are in the cafeteria and you go in to eat/replenish mana. Luna is standing off to the back of the room by herself while you sit next to Kotori. Kotori is uncorrupted at this point so she just has normal Kotori-like conversation with Leo but Luna is corrupted and she is acting kind of weird if you go up to her to talk she doesnt really have much to say to Leo and it shows her inner dialog about wanting to have sex with Iviel. Kotori acts in a similar manner when she is corrupted. And also during Luna's scenes with Iviel he brings up Leo several times and Luna kind of ignores it and just wants to continue to have sex. While she is having sex with Iviel it seems to be the only thing that matters to her. It isn't until the following day or when she is very far away from Iviel that she kind of returns to a little of her normal self. Unfortunately I dont no how to tag something as a spoiler so I apologize if im spoiling anything for people.

 

[Telolet]

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Hopefully Im not too retarded and this should contain version 1.05. Some bug fixes but more importantly some new dialogues for chapter 4 and 5.

Its already translated or not?

 

[TheDarkDude]

Its already translated or not?

No, this version is in jap. Hopefully someone will translate it.

 

[Senya_boy]

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Hopefully Im not too retarded and this should contain version 1.05. Some bug fixes but more importantly some new dialogues for chapter 4 and 5.

Since it sounds like you had some sort of translation of a change log or dev notes or what have you: do you know if there was anything more specific about what sort of dialogues were added? (Like incidental while walking around, or expanded plot scenes, or expanded H-scene dialogue). Or is all we're given just "more in 4 and 5, go find it"?

 

[sirviper235]

Gonna try to keep this response (relatively) short, so won't be spoilering.

I definitely agree with you on how intense Luna's loyalty is, to the point of being arguably unhealthy. I just don't think that necessarily means that it could stand up to the effects of the magic. It's just as fair to say "the magic can overcome any willpower, no matter how strong" as it is to say "willpower can resist any magic, no matter how strong", after all.

(Sidenote, Telo does raise the point in the post just before this about Ivieru talking about wanting her to come over 'of her own will', which does definitely clash with my brainwashing interpretation; but, well, villains in that sort of context tend to not be particularly honest, and / or have strange interpretations of "of one's own free will", given they can literally change what that 'free' will is).

Now, a more interesting point that I get out of your latest thoughts here is the argument that the loyalty to Leo is so absolutely core to who Luna is that, even if something could magically replace it, it would just completely break down who she is. I think that would have been a fascinating direction for a story to have explored more directly, but even with that, I don't think it contradicts what we saw.

One interpretation, and what I'd probably default to since it comes up in this sort of material a ton, is 'death of self': yes, you are absolutely right, 'Luna' couldn't possibly have her loyalty to Leo replaced, and therefore what we have in the end of the NTR route isn't Luna anymore at all. It's some newly created persona, distressingly similar in many ways, completely different in the ways that matter, puppet-ing around her body. This is way more MC kink than NTR kink talk, but that's the sort of end-situation that comes up a ton, and can be so hard-hittingly distressing and disgusting and enraging and erotic all at once.

Alternatively / along with that, you could argue that her loyalty being so core to who she is is the very reason she does fall so completely. She's so unable to grasp the concept of the loyalty even wavering at all, that once she realizes the spell has started to overwrite it in her mind, she basically isn't able to process, and shuts down mentally, allowing the curse full reign.

Now, to all of that, you could say (thought I'm sure you would in nicer words): "That's all shit you completely made up! None of that is in the text!", which would be entirely fair. I would just reiterate my point, since I think it's pretty critical to understanding where I'm coming from with a lot of this, that for better or for worse, I view this game as really expecting the player to fill in a lot of the blanks it leaves with their own interpretations and stories.

Great responses and honeslty. VERY good ideas and interperation you got here! I fully agree that the game leaves a LOT of blanks and holes in it for us to have to fill in. But the issue is..It's only really on the NTR route. The 'true' route doesn't have this issue. Which is odd.

To be fully honest and open. The game has a bit of an issue we can all acknowldege. The Reverse NTR with Kurone is VERY well written beyond some minor issues later on with the game semi acting both like Leo never did anything with her and also like he did do stuff with her in the blindspot room. But that's aside the point.

The problem with the NTR routeis simple. It's writing is very...bare bones. The reverse NTR route is much deeper and has themes to it and works with the entire story and characterizaiton of Kurome and the tragedy of whats been done to her and so on and so forth.

But the NTR routes problem is...It doesn't do that. It takes a very basic route and doesn't truly dig too deep into Luna's mind as this happens. It seems like it's a mixture of Mind control and NTR of Luna's own 'free will' but can't fully stick with or deciide which to go with. So it's an odd mixture of both at points and when Luna finnally reaches the betryal/loyalty breaking point.It...Doesn't feel earned. Or even like she'd do it.

And once she does it, she doens't act like Luna at all after it. And the shame is there is SO MUCH potential for something truly interesting there as you have written out!Your interperation is just as valid and i'd say in some ways better than my own idea from the previous page. It feels like wasted potential more than anything else and that it sort of just has Luna stop being Luna to allow the NTR route to happen.

And it frankly does feel very anti-climatic with how Kurone just insta wipes her and the demon.And it deosn't fully justify why it ends so fast despite how Kurone at the start pointed out how deadly LUna was and that she was afraid to fight her and that if she did she would die. Espically with Luna basically getitng super charged/powered up in that route and thus being MORE dangerous. But just...No.

ANd i thinkI can to a degree explain it. With something i kinda noticed form early teasers about the game and info.

Spoiler: Luna Original role theory.

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[sirviper235]

Yea that would be cool and interesting to see them actually doing something in the morning because it would reinforce the point we were just talking about. And one of the things that makes me think it makes the heroines think about sex 24/7 is a scene when they are in the cafeteria and you go in to eat/replenish mana. Luna is standing off to the back of the room by herself while you sit next to Kotori. Kotori is uncorrupted at this point so she just has normal Kotori-like conversation with Leo but Luna is corrupted and she is acting kind of weird if you go up to her to talk she doesnt really have much to say to Leo and it shows her inner dialog about wanting to have sex with Iviel. Kotori acts in a similar manner when she is corrupted. And also during Luna's scenes with Iviel he brings up Leo several times and Luna kind of ignores it and just wants to continue to have sex. While she is having sex with Iviel it seems to be the only thing that matters to her. It isn't until the following day or when she is very far away from Iviel that she kind of returns to a little of her normal self. Unfortunately I dont no how to tag something as a spoiler so I apologize if im spoiling anything for people.

That's a pretty solid thing to bring up there. Sadly the game never really explains how the subguation works very well sadly. Which is an issue. As the NTR route really doens't explain stuff very well while the true one does. I think that's the core issue with the NTR route.

it leaves a lot to interpation and holes for us to fill in on how things are working or why things are happening. I think it's beacuse the NTR route was written later and was rushed out to meet the games deadline. Stuff just feels...Weird in it. Espically if you play the true route.